LED Lighting for Shop

[Russ Webb]

Has anyone found suitable LED lights for their workshop? I have been looking but haven't found quite what I need.

I need some surface mount lights to fix to my shop ceiling. One complication is that I have 6"x14" beams supporting the second story crossing the shop ceiling every four feet. The bottom of the beams are 9' high with the ceiling (tongue and groove flooring) another 13" above the bottom of the beams.

I don't want to fix the lights to the beams as they are an aesthetic feature of the shop (#1 Doug fir shaped and finished) so the lights need to mount to the ceiling and have about a 120 degree arc of light. High bay fixtures that hang from the ceiling are the best I've found so far (2'x1' fixture providing 11,500 lumens - about the same as a 4 bulb t5 fluorescent fixture but about 5 times the cost.)

Any experience, ideas, suggestions?

Thanks.

[Jeff Erbele]

Has anyone found suitable LED lights for their workshop? I have been looking but haven't found quite what I need.

I need some surface mount lights to fix to my shop ceiling. One complication is that I have 6"x14" beams supporting the second story crossing the shop ceiling every four feet. The bottom of the beams are 9' high with the ceiling (tongue and groove flooring) another 13" above the bottom of the beams.

I don't want to fix the lights to the beams as they are an aesthetic feature of the shop (#1 Doug fir shaped and finished) so the lights need to mount to the ceiling and have about a 120 degree arc of light. High bay fixtures that hang from the ceiling are the best I've found so far (2'x1' fixture providing 11,500 lumens - about the same as a 4 bulb t5 fluorescent fixture but about 5 times the cost.)

Any experience, ideas, suggestions?

Thanks.

It seems the consensus is, as you have discovered, that LED's are the newest technology and as such are an expensive option; at least for now. Florescent T8's are the more economical and popular solution.

It sounds like you have one good looking shop. I might find that a difficult choice, make dust :eek: or host a social function :confused: :p

[Dave Fuller]

280100I put LEDs in track light strips. You can load them with more LED bulbs than you can standard bulbs. I also like that you can "point" lights at machines or bench tops. I like the "color" of the light they produce. Spendy but I really like them and it's less $$$ over the long term (I'm told).

[Ole Anderson]

280100I put LEDs in track light strips. You can load them with more LED bulbs than you can standard bulbs. I also like that you can "point" lights at machines or bench tops. I like the "color" of the light they produce. Spendy but I really like them and it's less $$$ over the long term (I'm told). Nice looking shop Dave. I like the idea of spot lighting at workstations vs general lighting. I need to refixture my shop. Looking at T8s as cost effective, but I am starting to use LEDs in my home, 6 of them in the kitchen pots ,three in a difficult to access chandelier in a stairwell. Maybe if I wait long enough the cost of LEDs will come down substantially.

[Greg R Bradley]

Sounds like you are looking at the Liithonia IBH11L MV about 16" x 24". It is a mid bay unit so not as glaring as most high bay units. It is still probably way too much light from too small an area to be comfortable in a low ceiling. I've got one we are trying in a row of shelving that is mounted at 15'.

If your ceiling is 12' or less, you will probably not like them. Those big beams may help keep them out of a direct line of sight and make them more acceptable.

[Jack Lindsey]

Why not suspend T8 strips or industrials from the ceiling to put them in a plane even with the bottoms of the beams?

[Russ Webb]

Yes, indeed, LEDs seem to be a more expensive solution. I've currently got temporary 4 bulb T8 fixtures hanging at about level with the bottom of the beams, but they are not my preferred permanent alternative. I'd rather have something installed as a surface mount to the ceiling above the level of the beams.

At the moment the shop is pretty well filled with dust but, as you supposed, once it's finished my neighbors have requested a party and suggested that we hold all our dinner parties in the shop in the future.

It is/will be a nice looking shop but, since it's the last one I'm likely to build I thought I'd do it as close to the way I wanted as I could. It will mostly be a hand tool shop with some machine capability but dust is not my friend and I've learned to prefer hand tools for most of the things I do. I'll post some pics when it's finished but it will be awhile.

[Russ Webb]

Very nice looking shop! Thanks for the suggestion. It would certainly be less $$$.

I'll probably need higher levels of light than you've installed since my eyes are not great, but your solution is worth considering. I'll have to see what it would take to get the light levels suggested in the Shop Lighting article by Ken Fitzgerald (and that I need for my eyes/type of work I do.)


280100I put LEDs in track light strips. You can load them with more LED bulbs than you can standard bulbs. I also like that you can "point" lights at machines or bench tops. I like the "color" of the light they produce. Spendy but I really like them and it's less $$$ over the long term (I'm told).

[Russ Webb]

Yes, the Lithonia IBH11L MV is the closest thing I've found to LEDs providing the amount of light I need (actually I'D NEED 2 fixtures in each bay between the beams to get the amount of light required. But...they are not surface mount and they are expensive.

I'd be interested in learning more about your experience with them. Of course, it's hard to know how they'd be in my shop but based on my experience with temporary 4 bulb T8 fixtures and my unscientific comparison in seeing the IBH11L MV fixtures in operation it does not appear that they would be too glaring in my shop. The amount of wood in the posts and beams seems to soften rather than reflect light.

There appear to be plenty of options in troffers that are recessed mounted but not much in surface mounts. If you know of any surface mount options I'd appreciate learning of them.

Thanks.


Sounds like you are looking at the Liithonia IBH11L MV about 16" x 24". It is a mid bay unit so not as glaring as most high bay units. It is still probably way too much light from too small an area to be comfortable in a low ceiling. I've got one we are trying in a row of shelving that is mounted at 15'.

If your ceiling is 12' or less, you will probably not like them. Those big beams may help keep them out of a direct line of sight and make them more acceptable.

[Steve Milito]

How about Fluorescent strip lights with reflectors?

[Greg R Bradley]

Russ,

You said that the IBH11L is "expensive". I understand pricing may be very different in AK but that is Lithonia's Contractor Select - low end LED warehouse, made in large quantities, and designed to be sold at a low price by HD, etc. It is $219 around here at HD. For a commercial LED warehouse fixture that is extremely low priced. Most of the other models including other brands that are comparable, will be at least double that, many FAR more than double. How much is that lamp in your area?

Lithonia has a STL4 surface mount that actually does have more than 120 degree spread but it is designed to replace surface mount 2 bulb T-8 fixtures. They are designed more for offices and are about $300 each but they are less than half the light output of the IBH11L so you would need more.

There is the LBL4 surface mount that is about $125 but does not have the spread you need. That light mounted on the ceiling at your 9' + 14" ceiling height doesn't seem like it needs a wide spread to me.

What is the pricing at your suppliers?

[Kelly Craig]

At this point, it appears the LED version of tubes is no more efficient than the mercury containers.

I have aluminum light strips I bought from lightingwill.com that are 20" long and have 45 LED's each. The LED's can be dimmed. Also, they can be cut every three LED's and the bars, cut or not, can be chained. I only paid ten a bar for them. Everything I found state side went up at least twenty a bar.

I had an inexpensive power supply (about $25.00), but had to go a magnetic power supply [90watt, for my situation]to be able to dim them on the 120VAC side. For under cabinet lighting, they are wonderful. Much of the time, we don't use anything but these and they really light the kitchen well. However, I took a strip outside. after dark, and a single strip light the deck, but it was obvious.

I took a bar outside, after dark. It lit the deck, but it was obvious I'd need a lot more to bring the lighting to a place I could run these in my shop for other than task lighting. Keep in mind, however, these were 3.6 watts per bar and the more powerful LED's would likely fill the task.

I modified a motion light so I wouldn't have to install bayonet type mercury curlies. It now takes screw in and I used a ten dollar, big box LED as a replacement. I like that one as much as, or more than the original bulb. My inspiration was the cans I installed during a dine remodel. We put dimmable LED's in those and ran them off a four-way dimmer. Five of them REALLY light up the little 10'x12' dine room. So much so, we keep them dimmed, unless on mop detail.

I experimented and bought some individual LED's and a power supply. For the money, it gave me some insight and toys to install on things like the band saw, miter box and so forth. Just have to decide where to use them and how many more power supplies I want to buy for about twenty a piece. If nothing else, I have some LED's that will focus light without having to detract to much from the industrial beauty of the equipment.

Hopefully, something in those ramblings give you something of value.

[Jeff Nicol]

http://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/t8-tubes/37-watt-t8-led-tube-bulb-4ft/870/here are some that will fit in a regular flourecent fixture that might do the job.

http://cdn6.superbrightleds.com/timthumb.php?h=230&src=http://d114hh0cykhyb0.cloudfront.net/images/uploads/t8-led-tube.jpg&trim=1&zc=1

[Kerry Wright]

WOW,:eek: that would cost me over $2200 to change my T8s over to LED! I think I'll wait a bit longer before leaping off that bridge.

[Matt Kestenbaum]

Last summer I installed bunch of track lighting in my home and decided to go with LED. Total Lighting Supply http://totallightingsupply.com has a truly state of the art single source LED bulb from a company called Soraa. (single source as in one big LED, not a cluster of little ones) These bulbs are available in a few variations of Kelvin and arc -- from true spot to broader area. They were developed (as I understand it) for high-end retail environments. The light is really amazing. By being single source they don't cast any odd shadows and they do run very efficiently. They are self contained as far a transformers go…so it is not a low voltage system and they run on pretty cheap rudimentary cooper style track. And compared to the cost of the bulbs the fixtures are pretty cheap too. Its an expensive option for a shop and I'm not sure open track isn't asking for dust trouble in a shops.

[Kelly Craig]

It should be noted, regular tubes use transformers to arc across the [plasma] tubes (fluorescent tubes), but these don't require that kind of high voltage, so the transformer has to be bypassed to install them in place of the originals.

In addition to price, I liked the lightingwill folks because they were honest about there being not enough gain replacing fluorescent with LED to justify doing it. Efficiency was about the same. I should mention, English isn't the native language, so some of the communication was labored and you had to scroll down the blog page to get to the fact, but they didn't try to sell you what you really didn't need.



http://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/t8-tubes/37-watt-t8-led-tube-bulb-4ft/870/here are some that will fit in a regular florescent fixture that might do the job.

http://cdn6.superbrightleds.com/timthumb.php?h=230&src=http://d114hh0cykhyb0.cloudfront.net/images/uploads/t8-led-tube.jpg&trim=1&zc=1

[Jim Neeley]

Let's see... Philips T8 32 watt (5000K) bulb from HD, $9.71 - 32 watts provides 2950 lumens
LED Tube, $69.95 - 17 watts provides 1600 lumens of light.

For a given amount of light (measured in lumens) the LED uses: [(17 w/1600 l)/(32 w/2950 l)] = 97.95% of the electricity of the fluorescent.

To get the same amount of light as I have in my shop (twenty-two 4-bulb fixtures) when all are on, I would need:

(2950 l/1600 l) * 22 fixtures = 40.5 fixtures. With those fixtures I would get the same light and save 2% on energy.

To save that 2% of energy I would spend (40.5 fixtures X 4 bulbs/fixture X $69.95 / bulb) = $11,331.90 in bulbs (vs $9.71/bulb * 88 bulbs) = $854 [and fluorescents are available *much* cheaper than that] plus adding 18 4-bulb + 1 2-bulb fixtures.

I'm not arguing against LEDs. I am saying that if the basis for your decision is saving money, they are not yet cost-effective.

If the basis for your decision is that you like LEDs, feel good about buying LEDs, it costs you a LOT of $$$ to change bulbs when they burn out or like telling people about your LEDs, go ahead.

I'm an early-adopter of technology but not for $10,000 extra.

Just my $0.02.. YMMV.

Jim

[Bob Snyder - Austin]

I had a ballast going out in my garage and was looking at going with T8s. Instead I went with LED. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008XHVAA6/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The main reason for is bugs. During the warmer months (most of them are here) I have the garage doors open for some air. The bugs would be all over the place with the fluorescent lights on. Nice thing about LEDs is no UV light so bugs are not attracted to them. (I learned this from some other outdoor LEDs I have.) So now I'm on a mission to replace the rest of my tubes with these. Phillips also makes a ~$35 tube.

[Mark Davis PDX]

281770

Cree CS18: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CDwQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cree.com%2F~%2Fmedia%2FFiles% 2FCree%2FLighting%2FIndustrial%2FCS%2520Series%2FC ree_HiLowBay_CSSeries_Brochure.pdf&ei=HBXzUp3MGZCFogTfloBg&usg=AFQjCNHgqoQUrbbMCiiI4dywRkeoqKPphg&sig2=OnTxgwQYNw2Bw3mzvUlFMw&bvm=bv.60983673,d.cGU&cad=rja

[Jim Neeley]

281770

Cree CS18: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CDwQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cree.com%2F~%2Fmedia%2FFiles% 2FCree%2FLighting%2FIndustrial%2FCS%2520Series%2FC ree_HiLowBay_CSSeries_Brochure.pdf&ei=HBXzUp3MGZCFogTfloBg&usg=AFQjCNHgqoQUrbbMCiiI4dywRkeoqKPphg&sig2=OnTxgwQYNw2Bw3mzvUlFMw&bvm=bv.60983673,d.cGU&cad=rja

Beautiful... but $732/fixture. Ouch!

[Mark Davis PDX]

Yeah, think I paid ~$1700 for 24' (3x8'). Not cheap but really nice. I need to install a second 24' run. -mark

[Greg R Bradley]

Yeah, think I paid ~$1700 for 24' (3x8'). Not cheap but really nice. I need to install a second 24' run. -mark
Well at least we finally have something that makes Mafell tools seem reasonably priced and Festool seem almost free. On a positive note, they do show light fall off vs. time ratings up to 95* F so they must be OK above 85* F, unlike most surface mount LED fixtures. They DON'T spec a max temp on the linked flyer. That probably isn't a problem in AK :D

Back on track with the original post and Russ Webb's request that I report on my experience with the Lithonia IBH11L that is available at my local HD for $219: We left it hanging at 15' for a couple weeks. People working under it were happy. People coming into that row of racks from the end were looking at it from 50' away and at that low an angle were unhappy. I raised it to 16.5' and it was better. Since it needs clearance to the ceiling and that is the lowest part of my ceiling that fixture can't go any higher.