water stones

[Robert Culver]

some time ago I had a set of Norton waterstones I ended up selling them because I lost my shop and need to fund other items... Now that I have a shp again n looking back into getting new stones Im looking of opinions before I pull the pin on them I had a Norton flatining plate last time but wasn't really impressed with it so I considering a diamond plate I was looking at this set anybody have any opinion on these

http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=335_404_403&products_id=1667

[Tony Wilkins]

Haven't used those but here really excellent things about them. Really popped into the thread to say that Stu who owns the website you linked is pretty good about answering emails (now that the holiday is over he should be back soon). He's very knowledgable about the products on his site.

[Chris Griggs]

Its the most bang for buck you'll get. Some of the best all round stones you'll find, at a very fair price. A lot of folks here on SMC have them and are very satisfied.

[Matthew N. Masail]

You won't find anything but good reviews on that set. However, after I bought it, I found that I didn't really like the 6000 and 13000. they are very good but I learned that I prefer stones with better feedback and that don't clog. the 6000 and 13000 are very hard and will load up a bit.


If I were to buy again I would get a 1k, a 2k and a good 6-8k, one that polishes as much as it cuts.
The reason is because 1k is about 14 microns, and 2k is about 7 microns! which makes it a much better jump than 1k to 6k or even 4k. It will allow you to remove the marks from the 1k very effectivly.


For a 1K if a Sigma than I'd get 1000 "soft" which is still much harder than the nortons you had. I admit I haven't used one, but I'm sure it a solid bet and definitely the one I would want for all the 1k sigmas.


the 1200 sigma had great cutting power and consistency in finish but very very hard so it loads up, and not quite coarse enough for when you need to remove a lot of metal quickly. I have one and use it alot (in fact I can get a hair shaving edge (if a little rough) out of it) but I wouldn't want it to be my only 1k.
It seems to be getting better (loads less) as I get past the top part.


I also have a New Cerax 1k which is a wonderful stone, faster than the 1.2k sigma and works well with HSS. it's softer but still with nice hardness and it doesn't load up at all. great feel to it. but I'd still try the sigma.




For a 2K you have the Bester 2K which is 6.7microns according the LV.


For a 6K I ordered an Arshiyama, but haven't got it yet so cannot comment on that one.


Don't be fooled by super hard stones that "you don't have to lap often", because if they loads up you will have to lap them even more than a softer stone.

[Robert Culver]

that's what I was wondering if the hard stones in the set would be to hard for me I like the feel of the Norton stones how ever I wasn't keen on the 1000 as it went out of flat quick and didn't seem to remove to much steel for the amount of flattening it took.

[Rick Fisher]

The Sigma 1000 is my favorite stone period. It seems to tell you that your removing steel. Hard to explain. It just sounds and feels right when you use it.

I also have the 13000 and it works great and I would buy it again.

[Robert Culver]

how do the shapton pro waterstones compare to the Norton and sigma stones?

[Harold Burrell]

some time ago I had a set of Norton waterstones I ended up selling them because I lost my shop and need to fund other items... Now that I have a shp again n looking back into getting new stones Im looking of opinions before I pull the pin on them I had a Norton flatining plate last time but wasn't really impressed with it so I considering a diamond plate I was looking at this set anybody have any opinion on these

http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=335_404_403&products_id=1667

I have this set. It is wonderful. I had a set of Kings and they were "OK". I tried these and...WOW!


how do the shapton waterstones compare to the Norton and sigma stones?

I also own some shaptons. They are good stones, as well. I just like my sigmas better! :D

[Matthew N. Masail]

that's what I was wondering if the hard stones in the set would be to hard for me I like the feel of the Norton stones how ever I wasn't keen on the 1000 as it went out of flat quick and didn't seem to remove to much steel for the amount of flattening it took.

All the ceramic stones mentioned here will be much harder and more effective than the nortons. If you like your stones to have good feel than I'd get the sigma 1k 'soft', according to TFJ it's not very much softer but just enough to give it a nicer feel and more mud.


Be aware that soft finishing stones might not leave a finish as fine as you'd expect because they don't have a "burnishing effect" where the grit get's finer and less sharp.
It depends on the abrasive type too, the 8K king does (abrasive type), the 3K new cerax does (not so friable), the 6k new cerax doesn't (it's softer than to 3k..).... so..


A reason to get shaptons is if you want a stone than is "splash and go". you'll still need to lap and clean them like other stones but you won't need a soaking pond.


Truth be told almost any stone you choose will work, and you will need to get used to the feel of your new stones before you get comfortable with them.

[Archie England]

Water stone sharpening is such a slippery slope :).....

I had Norton stones, initially too. Now, I have Stu's set of Sigma Powers (not select IIs) and some Choseras, along with a Gesshin and a Suehiro Rika (thanks, Orlando). I've tried an occasional Shapton Pro, as well. Nortons are faster than Oil stones but all these other ceramic stones are faster than the Norton 1,4,8 stones! I'm amazed to hear a less than stellar report on the Sigma Power 6k stone--it works fantastic for me (try a little more water while using since once it dries out you're effectively raising the polishing effect). And, yes, I agree that the Sigma 13,000 stone is less responsive than the other Sigma ceramics; however, the Sigma 10,000 is superb in feel and feed back. Oh, and the Sigma 13k is equal to (in feel) but superior to (in feedback) to the Cho 10k.

So long as you don't expect a stone to perform outside of its intended range, you should be very happy with any of the Sigma ceramic stones (or Shapton Pros). IMO, the Sigmas are just superb in feel and feedback (as are the Chosera$$$). Both the Sigma 1000 and Bester 1000 work an edge well. The Bester lacks the feel and feedback--and it doesn't produce nearly the fine edge of the Sigma (nor as quickly for me). Neither stone will shape a tough edge as quickly as Chosera 800! The Cho 800 is perhaps the best compromise of the 800-1200 range because it exhibits superior cutting/shaping for restoring edges--IF THAT'S NEEDED. Otherwise, the 1-1.2k stones get the typical first stage work done well. Others here (many others, in fact) will attest to skipping from a 800-1200 stone to a 8000/10,000/12,000/15,000 stone (thus using only two stones)--so we know that having several stones is not necessary. Still, others like me choose to work through stages (just preference). Hopefully, you'll discover what works for you and get the better stones sooner than later. Oh, yeah, do buy right the first time since it's cheaper in the long run. AMHIKT :)

[Robert Culver]

Thanks guys for the replies I have pretty much decided to stay away from the nortons not that there bad stones I just not want to soak stones anymore my shop is not constantly heated so wet stones somewhat make me nervous of cracking the way I am leaning is with the shapton pros 5000 and 8000 and a dmt coarse grit diamond stone for lapping the stones and lapping I have joels horse butt strops and use them for final finishing and also have some of the scary sharp paper for fine tuning. I would consider the sigma stones more if it wasn't for the shipping I can get the shaptons from amazon and they will be here faster and cost about the same as the Sigma set. At that price point im hoping the stones are compairable.

[David Weaver]

The shapton pro 5000 and 8000 are very similar stones. One is 3 micron and one is 2 micron, i believe. If that's not exactly right, it's not far off.

In my opinion, you are better off getting a shapton pro 1000 and 8000 and a diamond hone to go along with them (where the diamond hone is just used for flattening)

Glue the shaptons (or silicone) to something stable and keep their surfaces fresh. That's about all you'd need to do. If you have a grinder, you'll never need anything else.

You can literally get the shaptons cheaper from stu/japan and an atoma 400 cheaper from stu/japan than you can anywhere in the US, despite having to pay shipping from japan.

[Derek Cohen]

I agree with David.

I prefer the Shapton 1000 to the Sigma 1200. It cuts faster than the Sigma and does not load up as quickly as the Sigma does. I generally follow with the Sigma 6000 and 13000.

The Shapton 5000 is a dog. The 8000 is good stone, and although slower than the Sigma 13000, the Shapton 12000 is decent as well.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Robert Culver]

david you make a good point that is probably a better approach thanks!

[Harold Burrell]

I prefer the Shapton 1000 to the Sigma 1200.

Really? I've got one that I'd trade you.

Well...that is, if you didn't live clear on the other side of the planet!