WoodRiver #3 cap iron problem

[william sympson]

Hi All,
So I've followed the cap iron threads, seen the Japanese video, and read David W's article along with the other camp's views. I've tried it and it works well for me in controlling tear out, not too problematic in getting set up (gets faster with practice), so it is the standard on my #4 and have used it on my #7 on occasion.

I got a nearly new WR#3, V3, from the classifieds on SM creek to give to my 9 yr old for Christmas. I just got around to tuning it for him a couple of nights ago and by default, set the cap iron close. Then I found a problem with the cap iron - when the cap iron is set to a hair less than 1/64" (magnifying glass measurement) the iron will not extend to below the sole. The cap iron is against the lever cap screw. To get shavings, the cap iron needs to be at least 1/16" back from the cutting edge. The pictures illustrate the problem.
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I saw a review on the Woodcraft page complaining of the same problem. I went by the local Woodcraft store and they pulled a new one apart and it had the same issue. We got a new Hock cap iron out and compared - it was 3/32" to 1/8" longer from the cap iron screw hole to the leading edge. I called customer service last night based on the store's recommendation and they referred me to tech support so I'll try them Monday. It appears to me they have a QC problem.

Has anyone had this problem? If so, how has Woodcraft handled it?

William

[Sean Hughto]

So, it would work if you lengthened the hole in the cap iron or shortened the blade a bit? Either should be relatively easy to accomplish - the blade shortening would require a grinder - the hole, a dremel or maybe just a file.

[David Weaver]

I haven't used a WR plane, but the cap iron was clearly not drilled/slotted in the right place. Lie Nielsen had the same problem, and I wouldn't be surprised if the hole locations on those cap irons came off of a lie nielsen set.

It would not be easy to file that, but it won't be too hard to do it (if you really had to) as long as it's not hardened. Doing a neat job of it would be a little harder, though, and unless you file a lot, the iron will still be near the end of its travels on the adjuster, which makes for funny adjusting (my LN 7 is that way).

The head of the cap screw will also limit how much you can file.

Wish the manufacturers of the "improved" planes would've been up to speed with using the cap iron, huh?

[David Weaver]

So, it would work if you lengthened the hole in the cap iron or shortened the blade a bit? Either should be relatively easy to accomplish - the blade shortening would require a grinder - the hole, a dremel or maybe just a file.

The problem is independent of the length of the blade, strictly based on how far the cap iron can go toward the mouth of the plane.

[Sean Hughto]

I see. I was thinking it might be a "when set up" the relationship of blade to cap iron meant the full length blade was a smidge long relative to the cap iron length.

[william sympson]

Sean,
I agree that it isn't a big problem. My first thought was to lengthen the hole but the cap iron screw will hit next - the OD of the head is closer than 3/64" to the hole. If Woodcraft doesn't have an easy fix - like "we know there is a problem and will ship a proper new cap iron to you", then I'd figured I would just grind the blade back 1/4" or so to make it work.

So I suppose I posted it as an FYI for others who may have a similar problem (I have learned lots from this forum) and I suspect WoodCraft people look at the forums to what users think of their products and customer service - so in a way as a spur for them. I think they have a long way to go to get close to the quality and service of LN or LV. However I like to be able to lay hands on something before I buy it, so the local option also appeals to me.

William

[Kees Heiden]

It is the chipbreaker slot hanging up on the levercap screw, isn't it? Not the slot in the cutting blade? So you need to file the chipbreaker slot, and luckily that isn't hardened. I would file it quite a lot, so your adjuster ends up at a reasonable setting, not all the way at the end.

Edit, just read your last message and I can see how the screwhead gets in the way next.

[David Weaver]

Sean,
..then I'd figured I would just grind the blade back 1/4" or so to make it work.


Yeah, don't do that. The problem will be the same and it'll take a lot of effort. You could do it to prove it, though!

[william sympson]

Too slow in my reply to Sean's post. Reading David's response, and looking more closely, he's correct - shortening the iron won't work. Unfortunately the cap iron screw rim OD to too close to the hole, so filing the hole out won't quite get enough clearance.

[william sympson]

You guys are too fast with the posts!

David, agreed that filing will yield only a marginal improvement and be near the end of its adjustment travels. I do wish they would catch up with using the cap iron. One of the WC store guys said that I had the cap iron too close and should be set back much more - like he does it - and then it would work.

[Jim Koepke]

One of the WC store guys said that I had the cap iron too close and should be set back much more - like he does it - and then it would work.

Don't you love it when the way to fix an improperly made item is to not use it in the way it should be able to be used?

jtk

[David Weaver]

Yeah, he (the WC guy) should stick to passing items over the counter and taking money in return. If they'd have made the cap iron properly, the plane would literally be a single plane that could smooth everything you ever need to plane.

You might try an old stock stanley cap iron in the interim to see if there is enough space between the hole and the end of the cap iron for it to reach to the cutting surface. there's no guarantee that would work, though, either, because some of the holes on the LN stuff were drilled differently than the stock stanley cap irons and the "improved" cap iron from LN didn't fit on an 8 that I had years ago - it came up....way short.

If you have a stock one laying around, it won't hurt to try it, though. Despite the claims of various places describing "improved" performance, I guarantee with the cap iron set right, you won't get close to having chatter, because there is none on a stock stanley with an iron that's much thinner and probably a touch softer.

[Kees Heiden]

How about drilling and tapping a new hole for the capiron screw? Just a little above the old one? And then drilling and filing to enlarge the slot? Maybe there won't even a need to enlarge the slot when youmove the screwhole.

[Jim Koepke]

How about drilling and tapping a new hole for the capiron screw? Just a little above the old one? And then drilling and filing to enlarge the slot? Maybe there won't even a need to enlarge the slot when youmove the screwhole.

Then one would have to patch and make a new hole for the depth adjustment lever.

jtk

[william sympson]

Jim, hopefully the Company knows there is a problem. To the credit of the other WC guy looking at the issue, he said he didn't have any experience with hand planes but did see what I was pointing out - it became clearer to him when we put the Hock cap iron on it. So, I just chalk the other's comments up to ignorance - same as I had several months back - the problem with guys like him is that they can't seem to open the mind enough to learn beyond their own experiences.

[Sean Hughto]

Do after-market cap iron/chipbreaker and blade sets work on the WR planes? Hock, LV, LN, and that one Woodcraft sells (Pinnacle)? If the pinnacle one works, you ought to tell WC they need to provide a set as a replacement as the plane is defective.

[william sympson]

Drilling/tapping a new hole won't work - too close to the adjuster slot. Unfortunately, I don't have any old Stanley #3 parts to use. On the whale hump cap irons, I picked up a rusted "used" LN #7 on the cheap with a W1 iron and whale hump cap iron (it hadn't even been sharpened, but rusted all over) that works great - no complaints and no motivation to switch to the "improved" versions on it.

I know an aftermarket Hock high carbon iron set works in my #4 WR (both picked up used also) so it will likely work in the #3.

However, I don't want to buy a new set retail. I will see how WC handles the problem - I will share the outcome.

[george wilson]

Some of those WC store employees are wannabe woodworkers,and the job is as close as they can get to being bonafide !! There is one 30 some year old in Richmond like that who keeps popping up working at the WC store. He acts a bit arrogant,but as soon as he started showing me a little turned "vase" with a lid,he started making excuses for the mistakes on it. I didn't even mention his mistakes. I know he thinks I am an idiot because I don't care for the stropping wheel on their Tormek. No offense,David. I love the rest of it!!:)

[David Weaver]

Some of those WC store employees are wannabe woodworkers,and the job is as close as they can get to being bonafide !! There is one 30 some year old in Richmond like that who keeps popping up working at the WC store. He acts a bit arrogant,but as soon as he started showing me a little turned "vase" with a lid,he started making excuses for the mistakes on it. I didn't even mention his mistakes. I know he thinks I am an idiot because I don't care for the stropping wheel on their Tormek. No offense,David. I love the rest of it!!:)

None taken, of course. The stropping wheel is the most useless part of the tormek. If it was twice as hard and went 5 times as fast, it might be worth something. But slow and soft is a worthless combination.

You could hate the whole thing and I wouldn't be offended. If I'd have loved it, I wouldn't have put it in a box with your address on it!

[george wilson]

I like its simplicity and it looks difficult to become broken down. The stainless steel shaft is very nice to have,too.

[Steve Kang]

Hi William, I had the exact same problem with my V3 # 3 plane. I sent Woodcraft an email explaining the problem and they promptly send me a replacement chip breaker along with a new adjustment knob. These two parts fixed the issue.

[william sympson]

Thanks Steve. It is good to know that they recognize the problem and stand behind their product.

William

[don wilwol]

the short chip breaker is a known issue with a version of the Wood River. Call them and they will replace it.

[william sympson]

All,
WC tech support said they'll ship the replacement cap iron out to me. No questions asked...so a good response.

William

[David Weaver]

WC corporate has always been responsive when I've used them (we don't have a WC B&M store, we used to but it went out). Going to corporate instead of the store is a good idea.

[george wilson]

The store is just a franchise. They would probably refer the problem back to corporate,delaying the process. So,just go there in the first place,like David said.

David,although you attend the annual POTP (Part if the problem) convention,I know you are not part of the problem. Your wife,your inlaws,and your parents might think so,but they are all wrong. My inlaws don't seem to care,as long as I take good care of their daughter!!

[Sean Hughto]

I usually get along well with my inlays:
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2378/2259241434_987e13762c_z.jpg?zz=1
inlaws, well that's another story.

[george wilson]

Thanks,Sean. It's that blasted "spell check" making decisions four me. It always changes "Dia." to "did",and does other annoying things. I have to carefully re read everything I write carefully. The Y key is nowhere near the W key!!

[Sean Hughto]

I was sure that was it. Those auto correctors get me every time! Just thought it was funny that it changed it to "inlay" on a woodworking board - it figured that must be what you meant.

[Tom Vanzant]

Auto-correct = Auto-corrupt. I made reference to the Rawah Wilderness Area recently, and two sentences later, the a/c decided it was the Arawaks Wilderness Area. Not even close.