Cabinet vs Slider Saw

[William C Rogers]

I just finished the thread on SawStop vs other saws. Very good and interesting thread. I have somewhat of a different question. I am in the market for a new saw maybe. I currently have a Jet CTAS 1980's version with an overarm Excalibur and do have the splitter installed. I have the Jointech miter and a 52 Besimeyer fence. I have no experience with other brands of cabinet saws and this saw has performed well. Definitely looking for something under $4K. I prefer full kerf blades, so I don't think I would want a contractor saw. My goal would be to increase safety and accuracy, however I am just a hobbiest. What advantages/disadvantages is a slider over a cabinet saw. I realize I will get the added safety of a riving knife with most any new cabinet saw and potentially SawStop feature. I have never tilted the blade on my current saw, but see using that feature on future projects. Right now thinking Powermatic, Grizzly, Delta, SawStop, Jet, other brands and Hammer K3.

[Jim Andrew]

Hammer has a great sale on right now, check them out at HammerUSA.com When I looked at Minimax their site showed no sale, and said price varies, contact them, so think I would PM Erik Loza, to see what their prices are right now. Maybe they comp the Hammer prices? I have the Hammer on order, they said they have a container coming in first of Feb, and I will be getting one of those. The smaller K3's are in your price range. I can't comment on the saw as I have not seen one, took the recommendations from this forum that they are safer, easier to use, than my unisaw. Had a small kickback years ago, and don't want to go through that again. My thinking is that if these saws are safer, I will be able to stay in woodworking longer. As an older guy have to think of how you plan to spend your retirement. I want to build things.

[Rich Riddle]

I own a Hammer K3 Winner 48 x 48 and would recommend one without reservation. I have used many saws in the past in military hobby shops. Those shops include Unisaws, Powermatic table saws, Jet table saws, and the Sawstop table saws to mention a few. I owned a Unisaw prior to purchasing the Hammer K3 last year. A few weeks ago, with a friend we used that exact Unisaw. Can't be happier that the Hammer K3 slider now sits in the shop. After using a slider, the traditional table saws almost seem awkward to say the least. Regarding sliders not of the Hammer variety, I found them out of the price range. There is a used Minimax slider in St. Louis that I would snag in a second that is in your price range. It's superior to the Hammer K3 and looks brand new.

Last year Hammer went to the woodworking shows. There is one scheduled on January 17-19, 2014 in Indianapolis. Call them to make sure they'll be in attendance as they don't attend all shows. If you have never attended, it's a decent show where you can usually find show discounts on things that compensate for travel costs and ticket price. Of course, that means you have to buy things, not just look.

[Larry Edgerton]

I would include the Minimax SC2 in your list.

Larry

[Ralph Butts]

Minimax also has a sale going on machinery as well. You would be doing yourself a disservice not to check them out as well.

[Erik Loza]

Regardless of what brand you decide to go with, if a person is considering purchasing a slider, I would make sure it cuts at least 48" on the sliding table. Reason being that unless it can do that, there is no real improvement over a standard cabinet saw with a sled. In other words, do "re-buy" what you already own just because it has a sliding table attached to it. We manufacture a very small combination machine which as a sliding table about 36" in length. When someone starts talking to me about one of those, I quiz them pretty heavily about what type of work they expect to do, exactly for the reason that it would be inadequate if they ever want to do any type of sheet good. But that's a 5-in-1 machine, so it has value in other ways.

You want a sliding table saw if you work with sheet goods, not because you do solid wood. Sure, someone out there is going to say, "I do solid wood on my slider all the time", or, "I bought such-and-such 36-inch slider and love it", and that both those can be totally true. I hope folks realize that if they are going to be spending a chunk of money on this level of machine, it should be able to actually cut squarely, not just make more parallel cuts. Just my opinions as always.

Best,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Mike Delyster]

Regardless of what brand you decide to go with, if a person is considering purchasing a slider, I would make sure it cuts at least 48" on the sliding table. Reason being that unless it can do that, there is no real improvement over a standard cabinet saw with a sled. In other words, do "re-buy" what you already own just because it has a sliding table attached to it. We manufacture a very small combination machine which as a sliding table about 36" in length. When someone starts talking to me about one of those, I quiz them pretty heavily about what type of work they expect to do, exactly for the reason that it would be inadequate if they ever want to do any type of sheet good. But that's a 5-in-1 machine, so it has value in other ways.

You want a sliding table saw if you work with sheet goods, not because you do solid wood. Sure, someone out there is going to say, "I do solid wood on my slider all the time", or, "I bought such-and-such 36-inch slider and love it", and that both those can be totally true. I hope folks realize that if they are going to be spending a chunk of money on this level of machine, it should be able to actually cut squarely, not just make more parallel cuts. Just my opinions as always.

Best,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

Erik that is very good advise.

I have both in my shop a full sized cabinet saw and a small Mnimax slider (65" slider). One thing I would add is if you work with much Baltic Birch in 5'X5' sheets you should consider a 60" slider as a minimum size.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

it should be able to actually cut squarely, not just make more parallel cuts. Just my opinions as always.

Best,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

And it is shocking to see how out of square some sheet goods are. I good slider it THE tool for quickly fixing that.

I do use my 8' machine for solid more often than sheet goods. You don't have to use the slider carriage, sometimes I don't. Think of the slider as miter slots on steroids.

[Loren Woirhaye]

It depends on the type and style of work you do. Format sliders are designed to for accurately straightlining sheet goods to feed into an edgebander. They do this better than a rip fence setup.

I have a smaller slider and one annoyance is the crosscut fence must often be removed and replaced as it comes close enough to the blade it interferes with rips over about 36" long.

I totally recommend a slider if you want to make casework or fine furniture. The sliding section can be jigged up in some rather inventive ways. I made a long vacuum jig for ripping 3" wide tapered parts, tapering from 3/16" at one end to 1/2" at the other. The cut quality off the slider was good enough for face gluing the layers into a curved laminated chair leg. This can be accomplished using a band saw and a planer jig of course but I'm pretty sure doing it with the vacuum jig is quicker.

I use an elaborate shop built vertical panel saw for breaking up large sheets, crosscutting pantry sides and doing things like large book case backs.

[C Scott McDonald]

Regardless of what brand you decide to go with, if a person is considering purchasing a slider, I would make sure it cuts at least 48" on the sliding table. Reason being that unless it can do that, there is no real improvement over a standard cabinet saw with a sled. In other words, do "re-buy" what you already own just because it has a sliding table attached to it. We manufacture a very small combination machine which as a sliding table about 36" in length. When someone starts talking to me about one of those, I quiz them pretty heavily about what type of work they expect to do, exactly for the reason that it would be inadequate if they ever want to do any type of sheet good. But that's a 5-in-1 machine, so it has value in other ways.



Best,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

That is spot on advice. I got the short slider on my Hammer and came to that same conclusion shortly after running it for a while. If I where to buy it again I would get at least a 48" Slider. I simply dont have room for a slider longer then that. I would buy the Hammer again without hesitation just with a longer slider as it is an amazing value for the tool you get.

[Tai Fu]

There must be more to a slider than just cutting up plywood? Surely a panel saw will take up much less floor space and still be able to break up plywood with ease...

[Mike Delyster]

There must be more to a slider than just cutting up plywood? Surely a panel saw will take up much less floor space and still be able to break up plywood with ease...

It will take up the same amount of room to cut sheet goods on a slider as it would on cabinet saw.

[Mike Shields]

It all depends on how you use a table saw; sheets goods or solid wood, and how much safety you want.

I went from a cabinet saw to a large slider (full sheet capable), which I got a smoking deal on. I work mostly with solid wood, and I found the slider made those type of cuts more unsafe. That's not a typo.

I now own a 3hp PCS with an Incra TS-LS fence, and am extremely happy.

You can still cut your digits off with any slider, if you have any concern there.

[Rick Fisher]

Another great thing about a slider is that you can straight line rip lumber, safely .. I don't have the room for a slider but one day.

[Jim Andrew]

Straight lining lumber is what sold me, I'm tired of using my old skilsaw to put a edge on a piece at least straight enough to run through the jointer. If you watch the video on the Hammerusa website, it is hard to resist. Then when I talked to my friends at the cabinet shop, they gave me the main reason for a slider as safety. Jerry even showed me a board that had kicked back on him, and it was thrown clear of him. He said that tiny scraps you cut off sometimes get caught in the blade insert, and if you don't get them out of the way the piece you are cutting will get caught on the scrap and can kick back. He uses a pencil to clear the tiny scraps as he is cutting to avoid this. He did not shut the saw down once all afternoon as I was watching, until he was finished.

[Loren Woirhaye]

Format sliders can do a lot of cool tricks. If I need to put a taper on something like a template I freehand it on the sliding carriage. I've found this to be a safe procedure and use the crosscut fence as a back stop for the corner of the work piece. There are other ways to make any given cut. If I were making solid wood furniture only and wanted to limit my investment, I would buy a nice band saw and use a basic table saw for some joinery cuts like tenon shoulders and saddle joints. As it is I do work for clients and am obliged to be able to rapidly and accurately process sheet goods. While doing sheet goods work is both a good way to make some income from woodworking and learn cabinet-making, setting up for it can be a distraction from more intricate furniture work involving curves and fine details.

That said, a slider is great fun to use in any kind of woodworking I've done with one.

[William C Rogers]

A lot of very good advice. I guess I need to see an actual slider to really get a feel about their capability. There is a local cabinet shop I could possibly visit here and surly they have a slider. I do work mostly work with solid woods and occasional with sheet goods. The response here is a slider is great for sheet goods, but not sure it is better for solid wood vs a PCS. My Jet saw has served me well, however I want to start making angle cuts and can not do that with the splitter arrangement on the Jet. I will check the Indy Wood Working Show,to see if Hammer is there. I used to live in Indy area and have been to the last couple of shows, but won't attend unless there is something more than what was there in the past. The Mini Max slider on CL is attractive however.

Bill

[Randy Henry]

I went and looked at the MM slider in Stl. It's in average shape, in a professional shop, and was in another pro shop before that even though he told me on the phone it was in a home shop. He let me use it and take my time looking at it. First time I ever used a slider. Not for me. If all I was doing was sheet goods, then it would be great, but sheet good work is only basically done at the beginning of the project. I like using parts carts when going from the jointer-planer-saw-shaper-drum sander...and the huge fence assy would just always be in the way. For making small cuts on the saw, I don't think I want to move a 8 ft. carriage, sure, I could a the miter saw, but I like using the table saw for those cuts. I just finished our new kitchen where I made all the raised panel doors (45). After using that slider for a short while, I could not have imagined using it on all of those doors. Am I stuck in my ways too much, probably. I will stay with my trusty PM 66. If you go look at that MM, bring some wood to try it out to get a feel if it's the saw for you.

[Loren Woirhaye]

A full-sized slider is overkill for a hobby shop due to footprint and expense, and as you've observed the stuff on the left of the blade interferes with some ripping operations. Smaller sliders don't have as much structure to the left and designs vary from brand to brand and with vintage. For building face frame cabinets I give the slider a shrug because they don't require the panel cuts to be very clean or square, but for frameless it will never go out of style. Many shops that do frameless today cut most panels on a CNC, beam saw, or a vertical, but many have a slider too for its versatility with angles,tapers and solid wood cuts... and of course for the one-person pro shop with an edgebander the slider is likely to be the centerpiece of the shop.

If you have space for a radial arm saw with stops (dados, if you use them much) and a sliding chop saw with stops (crosscuts), most furniture cross cuts are covered. I cross cut whole sheets on a vertical saw, which eats up a whole wall on my shop but is otherwise unobtrusive and there when I need it. It's a ridiculous amount of redundancy (I have 2 track saws as well) which is silly for hobby work.

If selling work and optimizing the shop output to time invested ratio isn't important to you, maybe expensive machines really aren't all they're cracked up to be. Really, in the greater scheme of things, wouldn't you rather be investing in wood?

Said with a wink. Fine tools are a pleasure in themselves.

A sliding carriage is nice to have for furniture work but really most of the time a sliding miter saw with tables and a good stop system can make very similar cuts and may be faster to set up if you don't have to remove accumulated shop clutter from the tables to use it. I do believe a slider does more versatile work with (usually) more power and precision than lighter dedicated ripping and crosscutting saws and optimizes space even while it consumes a big footprint. I don't have room for a miter saw setup in my shop (it's cluttered with a collection of specialized machines I use infrequently) so I use the slider.

[Leigh Betsch]

I am a hobbiest and I've owned a MM 8ft slider since 2007. I love it and would never go back to a cabinet saw with a sled. I think they are intrinsically safer for several reasons. One reason that most folks don't recognize is that the rip fence tails away from the blade a bit. This allows room for the off cut to spring away from the blade and not bind. This is hard to do with a cabinet saw because if you set it up to tail away on the right if you move the blade to the left of the blade it will for sure will bind and kick back, but since you never move a sliders fence to the left of the blade it is not a problem with this saw. You can also pull the fence back to clear the back of the blade but i don't like this way of ripping and i don't feel it is necessary. Mine is also a combo machine and has a shaper built in. Its got an unbelievable heavy duty digital rip fence and two side tables one for sheet goods another for smaller stuff. The miter gauge is super accurate and bigger to registrar the work too. It's defiantly an industrial quality machine. But having said that I don't think the average hobbiest should buy one. I think they are over the top for what a hobbiest needs. With the "Can't cut you finger off" technology of the Saw Stop I think it is the only choice for someone that doesn't really need the benefits of a slider saw. In my opinion it's kind of like, if you don't recognize that the benefits a slider saw and how much easier and safer that it will make the work you do, then just jump on the Saw Stop and be happy. It won't have the intrinsic ripping kick back benefits, but it will not cut you and it will be cheaper. If you don't do sheet goods on the table saw it will also take up less space, although if you do do sheet goods your going to have to have 8ft of room on each end of the saw blade anyway. Depending on your shop arrangement the slider can actually save some space, you don't need to have a permanent in feed and out feed tables.
So again, I will never go back to a cabinet saw but I think the average guy should go with a Saw Stop. And all those "Table Saw Secrets" that all the magazine publishers what to give you will still apply!

[Kelby Van Patten]

While I agree with Erik's comments on getting at least a 48" slider to be able to cut sheet goods, I would disagree that anything smaller than that has no advantage over a cabinet saw. Yesterday I used my slider to cut a tenon on a 7' long piece of 1-3/4" x 10" mahogany for a headboard. As I made the cut, I thought about how easy it was to slide the material while I nibbled away the waste material, and how difficult that would have been on such a large board with a cabinet saw. Earlier in the week, I cut a 45 degree miter on another 7' long piece of 1-1/2" x 9-1/2" mahogany for the same headboard, and I don't know how I would have done that on a cabinet saw -- I'm not aware of any miter gauge that can handle material that large with ease.

To me, what distinguishes a slider is its ability to smoothly handle large material of any type -- sheet goods or solid lumber. If I were only working with small material, I don't know that the slider offers much of an advantage.

[Erik Loza]

I watched a guy in a shop almost kick back an entire panel at himself, once. Was trying to load it onto the slider of a big 16" SCMi saw while the blade was running (which is common practice and actually safe, unless...), but I guess he was not minding the slider position and "walked" the whole panel across the top of blade, LOL. Fortunately for him, it was across the surface of the panel. If that blade had caught the edge of the panel, ohhh boy...

Point being that you can hurt yourself on a slider just as quick as any other saw if you are not paying attention. Like any machine, operator inattention is the real devil.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Richard Coers]

Comparison thoughts; Slider usually doesn't have miter gage slots, so no fixtures can ride on the table. Slider rip fences are usually aluminum extrusions with knobs on the back for repositioning it. That does not let you use fixtures that cradle over them. With a 4' slider, you will have to unbolt and remove the fence between rip and cross cuts. That's probably the biggest annoyance. Also remember how much room you will need for the slider, all the time, even when you are not using it during a rip. A spinning blade is still dangerous no matter what the saw unless it has flesh sensing technology. If you have the fence on the front of the slider, you can still get a kickback unless you are clamping the sheet down. Personally, I don't think you should consider safety as a reason to purchase of a slider. A vertical panel saw would be much safer in my opinion. A good one, not a skil saw on tubing.

[Rod Sheridan]

Eric, just curious, how did the plywood contact the top of the blade with a crown guard?

Regards, Rod.

[Erik Loza]

Eric, just curious, how did the plywood contact the top of the blade with a crown guard?

Regards, Rod.

Rod, by running it without a guard, LOL. Welcome to "how it's done in cabinet shops".

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Rod Sheridan]

Rod, by running it without a guard, LOL. Welcome to "how it's done in cabinet shops".

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

LOL............Thanks, where I work that's a firing offence.........Rod.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, I have a small basement shop and I chnaged from a General 650 cabinet saw to a Hammer B3 Winner a few years ago.

I have the 49 inch slider with scoring saw and dado capability. It takes up the same amount of space as my cabinet saw did, yet has so much more capacity and capability.

It can straight line rip up to 50 inches without accessories, and can straight line an 8 foot piece with a simple sled and accessory extrusion.

I normally leave the outrigger off which keeps the saw small, and I mostly work with solid wood.

When I do need to cut larger solid wood pieces, or sheet goods, the outrigger goes on in under a minute and provides capabilities that cabinet saws don't have.

The sliding table provides a built in in feed and out feed extension table when ripping, and of course can be locked in place.

A small slider has the ergonomics of a cabinet saw, with all the capabilities of a slider built in.

You can clamp a piece of wood to the slider and cut a taper, or a trapezoid, or an octagon.

Clamp a piece to the slider and cut tenons.

The saws have a 3 function Euro fence, they can be normal height, low height for ripping thin strips, or a short fence for ripping solid wood.

The saws normally have a riving knife mounted crown guard with dust extraction that works very well.

My machine has a scoring saw, which I highly recommend you get, it results in zero chip out on veneered or laminated panels.

You will be able to use your existing blades, I had mine bored out for under $20 each.

http://www.felderusa.com/us-us/video/the-complete-workshop.html

The above video is well worth watching, it's long however it will give you a great idea of how to utilise a slider...............Rod

[Ralph Butts]

Comparison thoughts; Slider usually doesn't have miter gage slots, so no fixtures can ride on the table. Slider rip fences are usually aluminum extrusions with knobs on the back for repositioning it. That does not let you use fixtures that cradle over them. With a 4' slider, you will have to unbolt and remove the fence between rip and cross cuts. That's probably the biggest annoyance. Also remember how much room you will need for the slider, all the time, even when you are not using it during a rip. A spinning blade is still dangerous no matter what the saw unless it has flesh sensing technology. If you have the fence on the front of the slider, you can still get a kickback unless you are clamping the sheet down. Personally, I don't think you should consider safety as a reason to purchase of a slider. A vertical panel saw would be much safer in my opinion. A good one, not a skil saw on tubing.

With all due respect I think there are many a slider owner on the forum that would disagree with your comments. Why would anyone not consider the safety implications when looking at a slider? In general your digits are no where near the blade.

[Rod Sheridan]

Comparison thoughts; Slider usually doesn't have miter gage slots, so no fixtures can ride on the table. Slider rip fences are usually aluminum extrusions with knobs on the back for repositioning it. That does not let you use fixtures that cradle over them. With a 4' slider, you will have to unbolt and remove the fence between rip and cross cuts. That's probably the biggest annoyance. Also remember how much room you will need for the slider, all the time, even when you are not using it during a rip. A spinning blade is still dangerous no matter what the saw unless it has flesh sensing technology. If you have the fence on the front of the slider, you can still get a kickback unless you are clamping the sheet down. Personally, I don't think you should consider safety as a reason to purchase of a slider. A vertical panel saw would be much safer in my opinion. A good one, not a skil saw on tubing.

Hi, my slider does have a slot in the sliding table which accepts hold down clamps, tenoning tables, edging shoes for straight line ripping etc.

Th 3 function Euro fence provides may safety features not available on a Bies style fence, without adding home made jigs. The Euro fence has all that functionality ( high fence, low fence, short fence or combinations of).

Most rip cuts don't require the removal of the crosscut fence, and parallel ripping can be done on the slider. When I owned a cabinet saw I always removed the mitre gauge when ripping.

A smaller slider such as the four foot size, take up no more room than a cabinet saw, and have far greater capacities and capabilities than a cabinet saw.

You're correct that you can cut your fingers off with a slider, however the riving knife mounted guard generally remains on the saw because it's a pleasure to use, and has built in dust control.

A slider substantially improves your safety as you can clamp pieces to the slider and not have your hands anywhere near the blade.

I did find that going from a cabinet saw to a slider took some re-thinking of how I did things, however I would never go back to a cabinet saw after owning a small slider for the past 4 years........Regards, Rod.

P.S. If I were to choose a cabinet saw, it definitely would be a Sawstop model.

[Richard Coers]

With all due respect I think there are many a slider owner on the forum that would disagree with your comments. Why would anyone not consider the safety implications when looking at a slider? In general your digits are no where near the blade.

No where near the blade? Kinda depends on the operation wouldn't you say? Cutting big plywood pieces on a traditional table saw won't get your digits close either. So why spend another $4,000 if are considering it for safety?

[Ralph Butts]

No where near the blade? Kinda depends on the operation wouldn't you say? Cutting big plywood pieces on a traditional table saw won't get your digits close either. So why spend another $4,000 if are considering it for safety?

I think Rod addressed this nicely. Not sure where you got that number from but it appears you might be comparing an attractively price cabinet saw to a 8 foot slider. It does not read to me like you are comparing apples to apples. Grizzly G0623, G0700 or the Hammer K3 are not $4000 more than a comparable cabinet saw.

[Frank Drew]

To me, what distinguishes a slider is its ability to smoothly handle large material of any type -- sheet goods or solid lumber.

Totally agree, and the cuts are often (usually?) better than you'd get with a sled, and with the long crosscut fences with adjustable stops standard on most of these machines, faster and more efficient. And once you get into angled or beveled cuts, sliders win hands down. IMO.

[donnie cherry]

I use a slider at work everyday. In my own personal shop I have a Unisaw My opinion on sliders..... you can have them, I will keep my unisaw. I do cabinetry and furniture in my shop. I buy my lumber in the rough and straight line rip it with a Festool track saw.. To me, a slider is more for for sheet goods not lumber.

[Richard Coers]

I like the direction of this side of the comments. Can I come over to this side? They are killing me on the other ladder for my comments on sliders are not for everyone!!!!! LOL!!!!

[Joe Jensen]

I have been an avid WW for over 30 years. In that time I've owned a 1970s Unisaw, a PM66 I bought new in 1990, a 5HP SawStop ICS, and now a Felder KF700SP slider. I also have a 14" Dewalt RAS set up with a cut off stop system as a dedicated 90 degree cut off station and I can cut perfectly square up to 17" with that setup. Of the cabinet saws, the Sawstop was clearly in a class above the PM66 and the Unisaw. Much better built and the blade heel was adjustable compared to the PM66 and the Unisaw. The Felder is in a tier way above the Sawstop. I used a fair amount of sheet goods but I mostly work with solid wood. I went with a slider because I was very frustrated trying to get wide square cuts when I did work with sheet goods. I couldn't keep a cabinet saw and add the slider as my shop is too small for that. If I ever get a large shop I will add a basic cabinet saw with a power feed to use for ripping stock.

It took me several months to adapt to the slider. Here is what you get with a slider;
1) if you clamp the wood to the slider you get a PERFECT cut. I mean really PERFECT. I also had a scoring blade put on the saw when I ordered and I've never even set it up. The cut is PERFECT. I get zero tear out or chipping with hardwood veneered ply. I don't use melamine, perhaps I would need the scoring saw for that.
2) If you set the outrigger cut off fence for a square cut, you get a square cut.
3) Tons of versatility. I have added and built lots of jigs to utilize the slider.
4) My slide is 9 ft so when I have the crosscut fence on and clamps I can comfortably cut 8 ft sheet goods. I don't really have a need for a longer slider and if I was more constrained on space I could use a 4 ft slide but the cut from the slider side is SOOOO much better that what you get using a rip fence that it would be a big step down.

I started many years ago standing to the right of the fence on cabinet saws to rip. I was taught that this was safer in the case of a kickback. Of course this was on a 1940s Sears saw with no guard or riving knife so kickbacks happened. Over the years I always stood to the right of the fence. With the slider I have to walk around about 2 ft of machine to get to the right side of the fence so I've adapted to working left of the blade now. I do have to reach across a bit more and it was a change to how I do work but it seems plenty safe. When I do have multiple pieces to rip I go back to standing to the right of the fence I I rip like I used to.

On my saw the table top is about the same size as a Unisaw so one could work with it just like you would a cabinet saw.

Downsides:
1) price, the Felder KF700SP was a big step up in price over the Sawstop ICS. I tell people it's no more than a nice Harley
2) Space, the saw with a 9 ft slide needs a lot of space. I have a 3 car garage and I have to use the whole space when working on projects that require the saw. I have the bigger outrigger for the Felder and it's heavy. I bought the cart they sell and you can remove or install the outrigger in a couple of minutes but in 4 years I've only removed it two or three times. With the outrigger installed you need 6 or 7 feet of free space to the left of the saw when working, in addition to the room in front and behind the saw. Of course when you are ripping an 8ft sheet of plywood you need 8 feet in front of and 8 feet behind the blade, but you only need this space on the occasion you are cutting that big. With the slider you need that space pretty much all the time. When squaring the end of a sheet I need 8 feet to the left of the blade. I have to clear part of a bench top off and move my planer to clean up the end of a sheet. I have that dedicated cut off station so I don't crosscut longer than 8 feet. I did I would have to move several tools to make the room.

All in all I consider the Felder saw/shaper the best tool purchase I've ever made and I would have a hard time going back to just a cabinet saw.