Help! I have an Epilog 40W using Corel. I have a big client wanting Braille signs.

[Wendi Nickels]

Please any and all help would be appreciated if someone is currently using their Epilog Laser to produce ADA Braille signs. I have a big client who recently won a large contract and needs a great deal of ADA Braille signs. I would have to hate to pass on this job since they are a long time big customer. I am using Corel Draw 6X and an Epilog 40w mini: Can anyone provide a job file that I can use to practice with? Or is there a software I can purchase that works? Please Help! Thanks so much

[Dan Hintz]

See here:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?102008-Braille-Plugin-for-CorelDraw

[Gary Hair]

you cannot create ADA compliant braille signs with a laser, unless you are cutting the holes that the braille beads get inserted into.

[Joe Pelonio]

you cannot create ADA compliant braille signs with a laser, unless you are cutting the holes that the braille beads get inserted into.
I do it all the time, using balls from McMaster-Carr but only in small quantities. For large quantities it's a very time consuming process. I think the most I ever did i one order was about 20.

[Wendi Nickels]

OH cool! would you mind sharing a saved corel job file that I can import and play with. I really don't want to tell them I can do it before I try it out. Do you do the complete sign on the laser? Please your assistance is much appreciated!!

[Robert Tepper]

An associate of mine who does not have a laser does quite a few ADA Braile signs on his old Dahlgren machine. He manufactures them and sends them to Fast Signs to put in the dots. See if you have a Fast Signs in your area that can help.

Just a suggestion.

Robert

[Wendi Nickels]

the closets one is 30 minutes away so could be an option, thanks. Do they do the holes or do I need to do the holes and then they just put the dots in the holes I already did?

[Kev Williams]

To echo a few others--- To be ADA compliant, raised braille dots must be ROUND, the dots can't have flat tops. Another note about braille, is you can't simply substitute the braille version of alpha-numeric characters and spell "normal" words, braille is its own language with specific abbreviations and other 'shortcuts' that must be adhered to...

I had a big braille job recently and found this all out the hard way- I bid the job and ended up paying $200 more for the signage than I charged...

And lets not forget all the raised-letter signage with ADA compliant fonts and icons for restrooms and such...

[Chris Edens]

I know this is off topic but UV printers do ADA compliant signs real easy.

[Joe Pelonio]

Before you commit to trying it, here's a description of the process on a typical sign to give you an idea of the time it takes and material cost using a manual method with laser:


Use a good program such as the one available at the Creek to generate the braille pattern

Layout sign in Corel with ADA compliant font/size and braille Cut 1/4" Black Acrylic backing to size

Cut Rowmark Brushed Silver to Size, laminate onto the acrylic backing Use Corel file to drill the holes for braille balls

Insert the Braille Balls

Cut the lettering (formatted) in box the same size as the sign using card stock for mounting template

Cut the lettering with Rowmark ADA alternative material with 3m double-sided tape on back, nested to save material

Tape template onto sign, peel carrier from back of each letter and press into place on sign

Remove template

Add double sided foam mounting tape to back of sign

I have been able to do these and make $ only because the customers were willing to pay $70-100 each for them, hard to compete when bidding against people with automated systems to do large quantities fast for less than $20 each.

[Ross Moshinsky]

Something that is not often recommended enough on this forum is outsourcing. A good bit of our annual sales come from outsourcing services and products. My suggestion is contact someone that does this work everyday of their life and let them do the job. You can still make a very nice profit doing this. Normally around 35-45%.

As for making the signs, its not rocket science. I'm far from an expert but I've been able to make several complaint signs out of corian just from reading the forum and downloading various pdfs. I used a combination of my laser to cut the 1/32 plastic and my rotary engraver to drill the holes. I found the most difficult part of the job was getting the balls to stay in the drilled holes. One thing you have to remember about ada signs is that they have specific regulations but at the end of the day its down to the inspector. That may or may not be a good thing. Completely depends on the circumstance.

[Tony Lenkic]

I agree with Ross (sub it out till you are setup to do it in house).
Don't know where you are but here is couple of manufacturers to contact........... Bellcoinc.com & CCengraving.net

There is a lot to learn about ADA compliant signage. If you produce a sign that does not meet the standards inspector will reject them and you will be required to re do at your cost.
Laser is not the best tool for production of ADA Compliant sign. Mechanical engraving machine with right attachments will drill the holes an insert dots fast and efficient. Cutting out letters and symbols with laser may be OK.
Check out these manufacturers sites for more info.
Xenetech, Gravograph, Western Engravers, Newing Hall, Quality 1 Engravers. Roland.

[Larry Bratton]

You must be able to make a hole that is .0615 that allows an .062 (1/16") acrylic ball to be friction fitted and not come out. Accent Signage licenses people to use their balls and insert tool at a cost of about $2000.00. Their system uses raster balls but another competitive system uses a polymer product for producing signs (Nova,I think it is). You can make the signs with your laser but the most tedious part is being sure you are meeting all the regs for ADA and insertion of the balls. I had an Accent license years ago but primarily used a rotary engraver to make the signs. I have done quite a few with my laser but I had a tool that I acquired from Accent that is a very small vacuum pump with a tube attached. On the end of the tube in a metal insert that allows you to pick up one ball at a time and insert it by pressing it in and friction fitting it. Some have said if you cut the hole from the back, the friction fit works better, but there is a spec for the height of the balls on the surface and I can't offer a specific method for that.

[Kevin L. Waldron]

If you have access to a CNC or have one...... here is something that might work.

http://www.technocnc.com/cnc-router-accessories/braille-insertion-tool.htm

Blessings,

Kevin

[Dan Hintz]

I have done quite a few with my laser but I had a tool that I acquired from Accent that is a very small vacuum pump with a tube attached. On the end of the tube in a metal insert that allows you to pick up one ball at a time and insert it by pressing it in and friction fitting it. Some have said if you cut the hole from the back, the friction fit works better, but there is a spec for the height of the balls on the surface and I can't offer a specific method for that.

I can't remember what tool it was, but our illustrious leader, Keith (Outten), suggested something cheap from Home Depot that did the job quite well. I'm sure the correct search terms will bring up the thread here...

[Larry Bratton]

Dan, he was speaking about a nail set in a recent thread. Got to be slow though.

[Joe Pelonio]

Of all the ADA signs I have made and those made by others that I have installed, I have never had anyone check to verify any of the details of the sign other than that they looked like Grade II braille (balls). They have been inspected by the fire department for Elevator related signs, and by building inspectors for new construction, and both measured to make sure the placement conforms with the regulations. I suspect that as to the braille and lettering, they assume the lettering is OK and Braille actually matches the text. They may not even know how to read braille. Enforcement is by the Department of Justice, and it seems like they only respond to complaints, not inspect. Not to suggest that anyone do less than perfect signs, if caught there are serious fines and you could be sued by a blind person or organization that supports them.

[Larry Bratton]

Same here Joe. However, you never know when an inspector will call something. I once got called on a public swimming pool sign (not braille though) where the letters were 1/4" too short. Ya just never know, so I try and follow the specs but I never figured out how they would know if the braille was correct without bringing in a person that could read it. I have been told that few blind persons actually use it but find the tactile lettering more useful.

Of all the ADA signs I have made and those made by others that I have installed, I have never had anyone check to verify any of the details of the sign other than that they looked like Grade II braille (balls). They have been inspected by the fire department for Elevator related signs, and by building inspectors for new construction, and both measured to make sure the placement conforms with the regulations. I suspect that as to the braille and lettering, they assume the lettering is OK and Braille actually matches the text. They may not even know how to read braille. Enforcement is by the Department of Justice, and it seems like they only respond to complaints, not inspect. Not to suggest that anyone do less than perfect signs, if caught there are serious fines and you could be sued by a blind person or organization that supports them.

[Scott Shepherd]

Dan, he was speaking about a nail set in a recent thread. Got to be slow though.

Yes, it's a nail set. It's not slow at all. You can do 15-20 balls in about a minute. It's very fast once you get it worked out. Inserting the braille balls into the average braille sign we do takes less than a minute.

[Jerome Stanek]

I did a job in Springfield IL where the inspector called me on an ADA counter top that was 1/16 inch to high I had to point out that the flooring had not been installed and that the flooring is 1/2 inch carpet. He said he would recheck on the finish inspection. Also the ADA signs for the restroom had to be replace as the supplied ones he said were not compliant because of the braille

[Keith Outten]

My braille insertion tool is a 2/32 nail set you can purchase at any hardware store for about 3 bucks. It works really well and once you get accustomed to using it you can set braille spheres in a typical sign in about 30 seconds per sign. The trick is to use a wet sponge....tap the end of the nail set on the sponge and it will pick up and place several spheres before you have to moisten the end again. Get a wooden drawer pull and put it on the driving end of the nail set so you can tap the sphere in pace with your palm.

I laser engrave all of the tactile text, graphics and braille holes on my signs but I use Corian as my substrate on every job. I have no interest in making acrylic signs, I can certainly make them but I "No Bid" jobs when acrylic signs are specified if I can't get an approved substitution to use Corian.

I believe the patent Dan mentioned is either expired or about to expire.
.

[Keith Outten]

Jerome,

Anything that involves ADA can be scrutinized by the project inspector, the customer, the Fire Marshall, and a number of other organizations. They tend to be much more stringent enforcing the rules where ADA is concerned. This is not just signs it includes ramps, bathroom stalls, handrails even the amount of pressure it takes to open a door which is seven PSI. I had to borrow a machine from a local machine shop that was calibrated to check the doors on one of our projects when an older gentleman complained that it took to much effort to open a door. We were very tough on the height of any handrail and the diameter of the rail on every project when I was a State Inspector because there were groups of engineers who would do the final inspections who were meticulous about maintaining the proper dimensions. Over the years my sign work was not even checked after several projects were completed. The powers that be will lighten up once you have demonstrated a high quality of work and an understanding of the specifications.

There are exceptions, some people have absolutely no idea what the requirements are concerning the ADA. I have visited other State projects that should have been rejected but passed with flying colors.
.

[Larry Bratton]

Oh well, live and learn.