Any good I-Box tutorials out there?

[Matt Meiser]

Too yucky out to go out to the shop so I'm just dreaming about trying out my new I-Box. Besides the manual and video that came with, any good third-party tutorials on it? Google didn't turn much up.

[Mike Heidrick]

Did you watch the DVD? Not good enough??

[Roger Pozzi]

I agree with Mike. The included DVD is excellent and easy to understand.
I had seen somebodys video elsewhere but was not at all impressed enough to bookmark it or try to remember. Once you get "hands on", I'm sure you'll be very happy with it.

[glenn bradley]

+2. The jig only does one thing. I skipped the DVD and just used the paper instructions that come with it. It is like assembling RTA furniture or one of those metal garden sheds; if I think about it too much it becomes difficult. If I just plod through the directions without question, at the last step everything is fine. Is there a particular setting or operation that is not working for you? Right or left tilt?

[Bill Huber]

I agree with all, the manual is about all you need, in fact I don't know what I did with the DVD, never watched it.

At this point the only thing I could say is to make sure you loosen the lock on top before you start to adjust the jig and make sure you tighten it back after you adjust it.

[Allen Grenz]

Add me to the crowd. I was hesitant to try it out at first cause it "seemed" complex... But it really is very simple to use and the video is very good.. Putting it together is harder than using it..


This was my first use of the jig. I was surprised at how accurate it was .. Subsequent use has been even better.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii286/yotekyllr/woodwork/IMG_1867_zpsf7f248e7.jpg (http://s267.photobucket.com/user/yotekyllr/media/woodwork/IMG_1867_zpsf7f248e7.jpg.html)
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii286/yotekyllr/woodwork/IMG_1875_zpsaa30465d.jpg (http://s267.photobucket.com/user/yotekyllr/media/woodwork/IMG_1875_zpsaa30465d.jpg.html)

[Matt Meiser]

The video is good, I was just looking to kill some couch time with something more interesting than what's left on our DVR. Plan to get out there today and actually give it a try.

Nice gun case! I'm supposed to get my grandfather's shot gun--I guess its not really usable anymore but definitely want it to stay in the family. I think I'll stick your picture in my file for when the time comes.

This will likely be my first project with it, but in maple to match LOMLjr's furniture.
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[Allen Grenz]

Matt, that's a funny coincidence about your grandfathers shotgun... This was actually my grandfathers rifle he got new in 1938.. The case is made out of the 100yr old rock maple flooring from his boyhood "house on the Prairie" in North Dakota.. He tore the house down in 1984 board by board and built a storage building with it on his farm.. After his death I found the entire floor of that old house stacked in the back of the building.. The Millers Falls plane and brace setting on the case in the picture was his as well...

[Stan Mitchell]

Yet another thread that cost me money. :mad:

The I-Box has been on my want list since it came out (just not at the top of the list until now) - so I ordered one today. And for argument sake I'll blame it on Matt for making me think about it and Allen for closing the sale with nifty pictures.

All joking aside, Incra makes some of my favorite products, so I have a feeling that I'll have another winner! This should be just the ticket for an upcoming blanket chest project.

[Rob Holcomb]

The I- Box is a great jig and I've made a few but always struggle on how to do the bottoms and tops. Which way do all of you prefer?

[Mike Nguyen]

Hi Glenn and Matt,
I know you both have the Sawstop PCS 3HP. I have the same saw. Does the I-Box work with Sawstop without triggering the brake?
Mike

[Matt Meiser]

I haven't gotten out there yet but no reason it shouldn't if it's set up right--no metal should be contacting the blade.

[Mark Carlson]

I knocked out 4 shop drawers over the holidays on the ibox. Worked perfectly the 1st time after I did do a test run and tightened the fit before committing to my real stock.

~mark

[Matt Meiser]

Success, sort of. I got some great joints. I couldn't get the pin size set automagically per the instructions. I've obviously overlooked some step and need to watch the video again. My pins were maybe 1/32 too small. I adjusted the silver knob to get a perfect fit but the instructions imply that gross of an adjustment shouldn't be needed.

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[Alan Lightstone]

I just used the manual it came with. Never saw the video. The instructions worked just fine.

Did 8 drawer boxes last week.

[Matt Meiser]

I've gone over it now several times more. I VERY consistently get pins about 1/32 too small following the calibration procedure. Its like the pins don't move far enough away from the blade as they spread to match the cut. I can't see that anything is in the way stopping travel. I've got an email into Incra support and will follow up with a phone call in the morning but in the mean time, anyone have any suggestions?

278833

The pictured board has perfect width pins, set by trial an error adjustment of the silver knob. When I rerun the calibration procedure from the beginning, as you can see the tooth of the blade wants to cut about 1/32 off the pin. The stock ledge is loose, so its not hitting that and stopping. It appears that when I turn the red knob, the silver knob turns 1:1.

The blade is one of the Freud box joint blades on the 1/4" setting.

[Mark Carlson]

Matt,

Did you do the kiss calibrate step?

~mark

[Matt Meiser]

Yes...several times.

[Alan Lightstone]

It appears that when I turn the red knob, the silver knob turns 1:1.

The blade is one of the Freud box joint blades on the 1/4" setting.

I'll have to look at mine again, but aren't the red and silver knobs supposed to turn independently. I thought you loosened the black knob on top, held the red knob, and turned the silver knob slightly. Then retightened the silver knob.

[Dan Lee]

Matt
My intial problem, which if I recall correctly caused the problem you are having was the step bringing the 2 pins together then over tightening after they had touched. I learned to just get them to touch and not much tighter.
Dan

[Cameron Hood]

Like Matt Meiser, I have exactly the same problem and after doing the whole process about a half dozen times, I came to the conclusion that this jig is no better than my home made ones. After running test pieces, I have a sloppy joint and no amount of cranking the silver knob does anything that will tighten it up. If there isn't something wrong with my particular jig, then I am extremely disappointed. At this point, I don't know what to do.

[Alan Lightstone]

Have you tried posting a message to Alan Schaffter, on that "other" forum. He's the inventor and usually can be found there.

[John Conklin]

Glad that you started this thread Matt. I too got an iBox jig for Christmas and haven't had a chance to use it yet. I'll be watching your progress!

[Matt Meiser]

Ugh, guess it has to wait until at least Monday as my email netted an auto-reply that the tech support guy is out until Monday. Going to re-watch the video this morning, maybe there's a nuance I'm missing reading the manual.


Matt
My intial problem, which if I recall correctly caused the problem you are having was the step bringing the 2 pins together then over tightening after they had touched. I learned to just get them to touch and not much tighter.
Dan

I read some stuff about that so the last round I used a piece of note paper and stopped when the paper had some drag on it when I tried to pull it out, but not tight enough that I couldn't. Same with KISS-ing the blade.


Like Matt Meiser, I have exactly the same problem and after doing the whole process about a half dozen times, I came to the conclusion that this jig is no better than my home made ones. After running test pieces, I have a sloppy joint and no amount of cranking the silver knob does anything that will tighten it up. If there isn't something wrong with my particular jig, then I am extremely disappointed. At this point, I don't know what to do.

That sounds different...are you saying turning the silver knob doesn't move the set of fingers left or right? Did you loosen the stock ledge and the black knob on top? Both things I got caught by. But yeah, for $150 I expect it to work as advertised. Not convinced my problem isn't user-error but getting there.


Have you tried posting a message to Alan Schaffter, on that "other" forum. He's the inventor and usually can be found there.

Which "other" forum? Woodnet? Family Woodworking? Lumberjocks?

[Michael Heffernan]

Matt, Alan's on Woodnet.

[Matt Meiser]

Thanks. Going to watch the video again and also check that I'm not calibrating against the wrong blade's tooth--noticed that looks to be about the same distance as my problem, but I can't imagine I've made that mistake this many times.

[Harold Burrell]

Matt, Alan's on Woodnet.

He used to be here. Why'd he leave???

[Bill Huber]

Unlock the top black knob.

Turn the red knob counter clockwise until the two plates just touch, I use a sheet of paper to do this, don't go to far.

Turn the silver knob until it just touches the widest tooth on the blade, the kiss adjustment.

Turn the red knob clockwise to get the plates away from the blade and make a test cut, this cut is for the width of the blade.

Turn the red knob clockwise until the notch just fits over the 2 plates, no slop but not tight, watch it that you don't over do it and bend the plates, it can be done, I know.

LOCK the black knob on the top and do a test cut, I do 4 of them on each board and check it. I just use MDF or something like that.

If adjustment are needed you unlock the top knob and turn the silver one only, then LOCK the black knob again.

Set the blade height for the wood you will be using.

I never have to hold the red knob while turning the silver or hold the silver one while turning the red one. The problems that I have had is when I do the finial adjustment and forget to unlock the black knob or after doing adjustments.

At this point you should be ready to go.

[Rick Moyer]

Don't give up on it. Unless yours really has a problem, the I-box is a great tool for box joints. Haven't used mine lately but I suspect Bill Huber has outlined the procedure very well.

[Matt Meiser]

Doing what Bill says exactly to a T. I tried switching blades to my too just in case it was something about the geometry of the Freud box joint blade. Same thing. This time I measured with calipers--my dado stack is cutting a hair over 15/64 slot (just under 1/64 less than 1/4 for those not good with fractions :).) When I adjust the plates with the red knob to fit that tightly, the resulting pin is virtually exactly 1/32 too small. Sure I can adjust that with the silver knob, but I can make a shop-made jig that does that. I also did an experiment and switched to a 1/2" dado stack. The stack cuts just a hair under 1/2" (about the needle width) and the resulting pins from following the procedure above are exactly 3/64" undersized.

[Matt Meiser]

I never have to hold the red knob while turning the silver or hold the silver one while turning the red one. The problems that I have had is when I do the finial adjustment and forget to unlock the black knob or after doing adjustments.

Are you saying the silver knob shouldn't turn when I turn the red knob? Mine turns in lock-step with the red one when turning the red one.

[Dan Lee]

PM Alan he was very helpful to me last year when I was having my initial problems. Gave me his home phone # so we could talk about it, great guy.

BTW he seams to be pretty active on SMC

[Matt Meiser]

Thanks. I did hear back from Incra even though the guy is out of the office. I just replied back with after checking some things he requested and told him about the 1/2" test. I'm guessing they are going to replace it which stinks because I'll have to deal with shipping and waiting.

[Bill Huber]

Are you saying the silver knob shouldn't turn when I turn the red knob? Mine turns in lock-step with the red one when turning the red one.

On mine I can turn the red knob and the silver one will turn with it, I can turn the silver one to do the finial adjustment and the red one will not turn.

So after you have everything set and make the, in my case 4 test cut, you may have to turn the silver knob to get the exact fit, I do most of the time.

The thing I really like about the jig is you can switch bit or blades without having to make a different pin for a homemade jig. I have also noticed that bits are not what they say, that is a 1/4" bit will be just a little less then 1/4" and with a homemade jig this can really cause a problem. I just got a new 1/2" bit and when I checked it with 2 different calipers I got the same reading .475 but I made a box with it and using the I-Box the joints came out just fine.

[Matt Meiser]

OK, that's how mine works--just that the "exact fit" adjustment on mine is 1/32-3/64 :eek: The micrometer works great. I measured the difference between where it was and should be, dialed that in on the micrometer and I was there. But I had to adjust 1-1/2 turns on the 1/2" cut.

[Bill Huber]

OK, that's how mine works--just that the "exact fit" adjustment on mine is 1/32-3/64 :eek: The micrometer works great. I measured the difference between where it was and should be, dialed that in on the micrometer and I was there. But I had to adjust 1-1/2 turns on the 1/2" cut.

Something is still not right, I think the most I have ever had to adjust it was like 3 marks or maybe 4. Each mark on the silver knob is .001 and if you have to turn it 1 and 1/2 turns that is a bunch. All the silver knob does is change the distance from the bit or blade to get the pin the exact width of the slot.

I wish I could help more but I really don't know what to tell you.

You may want to give Mark a call at Incra, they are really good people to work with. 1-888-804-6272

[Matt Meiser]

He's out of the office until Monday but did respond to my email. At least I can get by with it the way it is and use it this weekend.

Seems like something has to be off inside but I'm not going to disassemble it to check unless Incra tells me to.

[Bill Huber]

He's out of the office until Monday but did respond to my email. At least I can get by with it the way it is and use it this weekend.

Seems like something has to be off inside but I'm not going to disassemble it to check unless Incra tells me to.

I just went out and set the jig up on the router table, did the kiss, did the width and then cut some joints. The joint was loose so I turned the silver knob 2 marks and did another test, spot on.
But again I only had to turn the silver knob 2 marks, not 1 1/2 turns.
I am using the router table and not the table saw, I don't have a good enough dado blade for the table saw.

[Rick Moyer]

Matt, I think it's Grizzly's fault :D:D.
Seriously though, it does seem like you may have a defective one. You shouldn't have to fine tune it more that a few clicks as Bill said, especially at 1/64th out.

[Alan Schaffter]

I'm still alive and still here, just been busy lately (All the grandkids were here for XMAS and I have some new widgets in various stages of development and even licensing! :) :) :) :) )

Let me see if I can help. As you can all imagine it is hard for me to troubleshoot without looking over your shoulder as you set the jig, so I'll just start at the beginning. Some of my comments will be a tad different than the INCRA instructions, but not any different in end result. I am basing these comments on other reported "problems" and solutions.

I'm not criticizing anyone here, because chances of mis-interpretation of the instructions is always a possibility, but so far, I have personally NEVER come across a problem caused by the jig- they have ALL been user error.

First, ensure your jig is set properly for and you are using it in the correct orientation for the tilt of your saw. The adjustment knobs should be on the right for a right tilt saw and visa-versa.

Next, unlock the jig and turn the red knob until the plates are in contact (righty tighty (farther apart), lefty loosey (closer together) as viewed from the knob end of the jig). Remember, you are working with a lead screw mechanism, and just like a bolt or machine screw and nut, once it appears tight, with enough force you can always over-tighten it and get another 1/4 to a full rotation- DON'T DO THAT!!!

IT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT that you UNLOCK the MECHANISM BEFORE YOU TURN EITHER KNOB!!!

When the instructions or I say to turn the red knob and you grab and turn it, the silver knob will (and must) turn with it at the same time- ALLOW IT TO DO SO. However, whenever you are told to turn the silver knob, you MUST ALWAYS hold the red knob still and prevent it from turning even the slightest amount!!

When setting the position of the miter bar so the guide plates are in the correct position in the blade gap, make sure the guide plates are in good contact, but not over-tightened. If you aren't sure, separate them and carefully run them together again. Also, make sure that the micro set screw is in the middle of the slot (in the shank of the red knob).

Contrary to the procedure in the instructions regarding position of the sliding stock ledges- I just slide them out of the way in the beginning to be sure the guide plates don't hit them during initial calibration or when setting the finger size for a joint.

Kiss calibration- get up close and personal to ensure the blade just barely scrapes the guide plates- do not cause the guide plates or the blade to deflect- this takes a little finesse. To repeat myself- after you have turned the red knob so the plates are in contact with each other, make sure you hold the red knob stationary before and as you turn the silver knob during kiss calibration.

Now set up to cut the joint-

Remember, if you are using a reversible blade "box joint blade" like the Freud, you must recalibrate before changing finger sizes- the reason being the position of the tips on this blade change in relation to the arbor flange when you change position of the blades. With a stacked dado, regardless of stack, the same blade is always against the arbor flange, likewise the position of the flange-side blade tips . (By the way this is the reason why if you calibrated the I-BOX correctly and don't mess with the micro, you don't need to recalibrate each time you changing finger sizes when using a stacked dado.)

Once I stack my dado for the desired finger width, rather than moving the guide plates and the sliding stock ledges out of the way, I find it quicker and easier to make the sizing cut using a miter gauge.

Once you have a sizing cut, place it over the pin plates and turn the red knob until the guide plates "fit" the notch- again, a little finesse will go a long way- don't make it too tight or too loose. Again, righty-tighty, lefty loosey.

Adjust position of the stock ledges for proper stock support, install the guard, and LOCK the MECHANISM. Cut your joint(s).

Again, ALWAYS unlock the mechanism before turning either silver or red knobs! Lock it again before making cuts.

A little theory- if you calibrated and set your jig accurately, chances are your first joint may be too tight. Think about it, box joints require tolerances of just a few thousandths of an inch. You may have actually made a joint that is "too perfect", because you didn't leave any space for glue. Micro is powerful so you will likely only need 1 - 3 clicks (.001" - .003") of micro to give you a perfect fit.

Another note about micro adjust- as I said it is powerful- a little goes a long way. When you use it to adjust the fit of the joint you are essentially adjusting or changing the calibration. So, if used for some reason other than to fine tune the fit of your joint, you dial in an extreme micro like when setting up for decorative insert joints, you are essentially de-tuning the jig and must either dial out that exact amount of micro or recalibrate the jig before cutting a standard box joint.

An I-BOX will work fine on a Sawstop. Just as you should always check that your miter gauge and extension clear the blade, before you arm the saw and make your first cut, you should always double check your I-BOX setup to ensure it won't contact the blade.

Like any new or different tool or procedure, it may be slow the first few times you set up the I-BOX. Once you have done it a few times and have a better understanding how the parts of the jig work and interact, setup will be a snap- just like riding a bicycle even after not having used it for months- at least that has been my experience- not so with with my Leigh DT jig! :rolleyes: Believe me, it is much quicker and easier to set and use an I-BOX than it is to describe how to do it in writing or verbally! :D

I'll try to check here often for follow-up questions. If anyone wants to chat off-thread or talk, send me a pm and you can call me at home (on your dime.) I think INCRA has a toll free number, however.

One more thing- come on you guys, I want to see some examples of the advanced joints possible with the I-BOX.

[Cameron Hood]

Well, my experience is somewhat the same as Matt's. I followed the written instructions first and got a sloppy fit. The instructions say that you should be able to adjust the fit by turning the silver knob while holding the red knob. Now get this. "Righty Tighty, Lefty Loosey". Since I want the space between the silver fingers BIGGER (that is--more LOOSE, LESS TIGHT), I cranked it counter clock wise just a couple of marks. (If you don't see where I went wrong here--read it again very, very carefully!!!) Cut the ends off my sample pieces, and tried it again. For crying out loud, it is WORSE. Okay, maybe I turned it wrong the first time. Yup, I want it less tight, so I crank it another couple of marks plus the two that I think I turned the wrong way the first time. Cut the ends off my sample pieces and tried it again. Now this is just getting stupid--it is even worse. Maybe I need to turn it a whole bunch--like one revolution. Cut the ends off my sample pieces and tried it again. Hummmm, this is NOT working. I must have done something wrong. Start all over. I started out with 2 pieces of scrap about a foot long each, and barely cut the tabs off each time it didn't work. I ended up starting fresh probably 20 times over 2 days, always following the directions "as I understood them". I burned up 6 one foot lengths before giving up in disgust and putting the jig in a bottom drawer (the one with all the other useless jigs I had acquired over the years). What is that saying about doing the same things over and over again and expecting a different outcome?

Anyway, I have copied Alan's instructions and in reading them over, the light went on. Dim, but on. I will give it another try and report back.

[Bill Huber]

Well, my experience is somewhat the same as Matt's. I followed the written instructions first and got a sloppy fit. The instructions say that you should be able to adjust the fit by turning the silver knob while holding the red knob. Now get this. "Righty Tighty, Lefty Loosey". Since I want the space between the silver fingers BIGGER (that is--more LOOSE, LESS TIGHT), I cranked it counter clock wise just a couple of marks. (If you don't see where I went wrong here--read it again very, very carefully!!!) Cut the ends off my sample pieces, and tried it again. For crying out loud, it is WORSE. Okay, maybe I turned it wrong the first time. Yup, I want it less tight, so I crank it another couple of marks plus the two that I think I turned the wrong way the first time. Cut the ends off my sample pieces and tried it again. Now this is just getting stupid--it is even worse. Maybe I need to turn it a whole bunch--like one revolution. Cut the ends off my sample pieces and tried it again. Hummmm, this is NOT working. I must have done something wrong. Start all over. I started out with 2 pieces of scrap about a foot long each, and barely cut the tabs off each time it didn't work. I ended up starting fresh probably 20 times over 2 days, always following the directions "as I understood them". I burned up 6 one foot lengths before giving up in disgust and putting the jig in a bottom drawer (the one with all the other useless jigs I had acquired over the years). What is that saying about doing the same things over and over again and expecting a different outcome?

Anyway, I have copied Alan's instructions and in reading them over, the light went on. Dim, but on. I will give it another try and report back.

One of the things you are getting wrong is that turning the silver know will change the space between the 2 plates, it will not change the space between the 2 plates. Turning the silver knob will only move them closer or farther from the bit, the 2 plates are set to the width of the bit or blade and will only change when you turn the red knob.

One thing Alan pointed out was locking and unlocking the top black knob, sounds like an easy thing to do and not forget but it is really easy to forget to unlock and then make adjustments.

[Matt Meiser]

Reading Alan's comments I just can't see anything I've got wrong. Remember I'm not talking loose, I'm talking 1/32 to 3/64 gaps. That's huge on a box joint. Since we'll be snowed in for at least 24 hours starting tonight I'm planning to make my daughter her shelves with it. I expect it will work fine once I complete the extra calibration steps mine seems to require. Hopefully Incra has some insight on Monday.

[Cameron Hood]

Back from the shop and this time reading with a bit of understanding. I tried again from scratch. (Three times) Removed the front blade guard completely and moved the right hand stock edge back a half inch because both of them were just things that I had to remember to loosen whenever I was trying to adjust things. So now, there is only one knob to turn to unlock the mechanism. (KISS principle!) Each time I started fresh, the fit was loose. So I tried to adjust. 1. Unlock 2. Hold red knob tightly 3. Turn silver knob 2 marks CLOCKWISE 4. Lock. Still loose and it actually doesn't look like anything changed. Tried it again--steps 1-4 exactly so now I am at a total of 4 marks clockwise. Still doesn't look like anything changed to my eye. Try again, this time moved the silver knob ONE WHOLE TURN. Now it finally is too tight.

Unless someone sees where I have gone wrong, this is not my idea of a good jig. I could have spent an hour or two adjusting my old home made model and got it right. I suspect that if I fool around with it for a couple of hours, I could get a good fit and then leave it like that forever, but sort of defeats the purpose to my mind.

If anyone can see where I went wrong, I would appreciate your input.

[Tom Ewell]

Yeah, I can't figure what's up with these problems, I use the jig infrequently enough to always have the 'notes' in hand when I set it up but don't recall ever having troubles getting a good fit, if anything, it starts too tight and need to back stuff off a little.

Hope this gets sorted, because it's a great jig (when it works ;) )

[Matt Meiser]

Would be interesting to know if ours were made around the same time--maybe there's a missing spacer or incorrectly threaded part?

[Alan Schaffter]

As Bill said, the silver knob does not change the spacing between the guide plates, it moves both of them, in unison, closer to or farther away from the blade- it essentially allows you the adjust the finger width (the width of the slots is determined by your dado blade setting).

Unless you are doing decorative insert joints, just a few tic marks of adjustment is all that you should ever need. Each tic mark represents .001" of finger width (in truth it is actually .00100806 . . ." but that is close enough to .001" for woodworking, don't you think?! :) )

The only thing I can think of that might be happening is the mechanism is not moving freely because (1) you are not unlocking it all the way or there is too much pre-load on the locking mechanism, (2) the mechanism is binding for some other reason- damaged or bent leadscrew, dirt or debris in the mechanism, etc. or (3) you tried to adjust the mechanism when it was locked, used way too much force, and damaged the threads of the dual pitch lead screw or its hybrid followers.

To test if the mechanism is moving properly, try this:

1. Unlock the mechanism- the guide plates should be a bit looser. Some light spring anti-rattle pre-tension will remain but that should not prevent the plates from moving.
2. Set the guide plate spacing for about 1/4" using the red knob and the micro adjust so the set screw is in the middle of its range using the silver knob (while keeping the red knob stationary).
3. Grab the red knob and carefully pull straight out from the fence end plate- there will be resistance from the lead screw mechanism spring. The red knob, silver knob, and exposed lead screw should all move away from the jig body by a 1/4" or so. Also, at the same time, both guide plates should simultaneously move in the same direction by the same amount.
4. Release the red knob. When you do, the red knob and the entire mechanism should slide, actually "snap" back against the end plate.

If it is difficult to pull the knob (the mechanism) out or it doesn't slide or snap back easily and fully against the end plate, something is wrong. Call INCRA.

[Cameron Hood]

Thanks Alan

I tried the test and the red knob will all move away from the jig body, but more like a half an inch rather than a quarter, if that matters. It also snaps back when you let go and seems to move quite smoothly and the mechanism seats fully against the end plate. Now the spring (I assume) is quite stiff/strong so pulling it out is not easy, but it does pull out smoothly. Of course, how "difficult" is subject to interpretation. Lets just say that after a couple of tests, I had imprints on my thumb but I don't think that it was "difficult" to do.

As to the possible causes.

1. "Not unlocking it all the way."

I have redone the setup procedures probably 20 times in total and I would guess that in at least one of those tries, I would have gotten it loose enough not to be a problem. Then again, I continuously don't win the lottery either!

2. "The mechanism is binding."

This MIGHT be the issue as when you are in the process of adjusting the fingers, it seems, well for lack of a good word, sloppy. You can turn the knobs and it doesn't seem like the fingers are moving at all and then you turn some more and they do move. If you turn in the opposite direction, again, there is no movement for a bit and then it moves. (Is this called backlash?) And by the way, the word sloppy implies really, really loose, and that is an over exaggeration.

3. "I adjusted the mechanism while it was locked."

I guess this could be a possibility. I don't remember it being an issue, but it definitely could have been. I would assume that one would really have to reef on it in order to damage the threads. I do remember forgetting a couple of times, but as soon as the knobs stopped turning, it dawned on me what was going on.

And finally:

I don't know if this is relevant or not, but one of the first times I cut a board, the fingers seemed to get further apart (and therefore required more pressure to fit the board over the keys) the more I moved left to right. Again, I didn't get out a hammer and pound on the board or anything, just that it seemed to get tighter and tighter.

[Alan Schaffter]

Thanks for the detail. Now we are getting somewhere. I'll address each point.


Thanks Alan

I tried the test and the red knob will always move away from the jig body, but more like a half an inch rather than a quarter, if that matters. It also snaps back when you let go and seems to move quite smoothly and the mechanism seats fully against the end plate. Now the spring (I assume) is quite stiff/strong so pulling it out is not easy, but it does pull out smoothly. Of course, how "difficult" is subject to interpretation. Lets just say that after a couple of tests, I had imprints on my thumb but I don't think that it was "difficult" to do.

That sounds right. I didn't have my I-BOX in front of me and didn't remember the actual range of the micro. It could easily be 1/2" to the right. That eliminates one possible cause.



As to the possible causes.

1. "Not unlocking it all the way."

I have redone the setup procedures probably 20 times in total and I would guess that in at least one of those tries, I would have gotten it loose enough not to be a problem. Then again, I continuously don't win the lottery either!


2. "The mechanism is binding."

This MIGHT be the issue as when you are in the process of adjusting the fingers, it seems, well for lack of a good word, sloppy. You can turn the knobs and it doesn't seem like the fingers are moving at all and then you turn some more and they do move. If you turn in the opposite direction, again, there is no movement for a bit and then it moves. (Is this called backlash?) And by the way, the word sloppy implies really, really loose, and that is an over exaggeration.

It can be hard to see the guide plates move since they both move a small amount (the blade side guide plate moves only 1/32" for each revolution of the red knob), in the same direction, at the same time, only at different rates. Your problem could be with the leadscrew, but more likely it is with the followers. I call them hybrid because they are a two-layer sandwich designed to provide positive precision adjustment while eliminating backlash. You can't see the two layers in the website photo of the positioning engine but might be able to see them in the photo of it on the box.

If the guide plates aren't moving properly it could be a number of things- the screws that attach the followers to the pull bars could be loose, one or both of the two layers in one or both of the two sets of followers is missing, one or both of the two layers in one or both of the two sets of followers may have been improperly threaded, damaged, or stripped. During pre-calibration or anytime you adjust the guide plates, if you continue to turn the red knob after the plates have come together or are at their widest spacing, you risk damaging the followers or lead screw- just like with any bolt and nut. Once section of the lead screw has fine, 32 TPI threads that provide a considerable amount of mechanical advantage, so over-tightening with just your hands is possible. In any case, fixes for any of these would require dis-assembly of the jig which is better left to INCRA.



3. "I adjusted the mechanism while it was locked."

I guess this could be a possibility. I don't remember it being an issue, but it definitely could have been. I would assume that one would really have to reef on it in order to damage the threads. I do remember forgetting a couple of times, but as soon as the knobs stopped turning, it dawned on me what was going on.

See my previous note above.




And finally:

I don't know if this is relevant or not, but one of the first times I cut a board, the fingers seemed to get further apart (and therefore required more pressure to fit the board over the keys) the more I moved left to right. Again, I didn't get out a hammer and pound on the board or anything, just that it seemed to get tighter and tighter.

That is called accumulated error, and can be typical of many box joint jigs, especially where you turn a crank to move the guide pins, but extremely rare with the I-BOX. In the I-BOX it can be caused when the guide plate spacing is set too narrow so that the stock can shift left-right after it is placed over the guide plates. Although really rare, that can also happen if enough side force is applied to jig that it causes the steel guide plates to deflect. It can also be caused by a sloppy miter bar adjustment where the entire jig is able to shift slightly from side to side.

I'm really sorry to hear you are having problems. By rough count there are almost 10,000 I-BOXes out there (wow! didn't know that until I just looked) so I guess it is possible for a few to have issues. INCRA is a great company and has great customer service. Contact them, I'm sure they will help. To discuss technical issues, ask for Perry.

Alan

[Matt Meiser]

I just heard back from them that they are going to swap mine out.

Cameron, are you doing 1/4" joints for your test? The one full turn would seem to match mine, but I don't notice any backlash--things seem to move right away, apparently just at the wrong rate. Don't really understand how that could happen without seeing the mechanism.

I'm going to set it up to do 3/8 joints today...will be interesting to see the error. Predicting 1-1/4 turns of the silver knob, right between the 1 for 1/4" and 1-1/2 for 3/8.

[Alan Schaffter]

I just heard back from them that they are going to swap mine out.

Cameron, are you doing 1/4" joints for your test? The one full turn would seem to match mine, but I don't notice any backlash--things seem to move right away, apparently just at the wrong rate. Don't really understand how that could happen without seeing the mechanism.

I'm going to set it up to do 3/8 joints today...will be interesting to see the error. Predicting 1-1/4 turns of the silver knob, right between the 1 for 1/4" and 1-1/2 for 3/8.

Just one other thought, make sure you are using the thicker, lower, main body of the guide plates to do the "kiss calibration" and the thinner "fins" at the top of the guide plates to measure the dado kerf and set the finger width. That is how you MUST do it.

You cannot use the thin upper "fin" portion to do "kiss calibration," nor can you use the thicker, lower section to set the finger width. The guide plates are precisely ground and calibration and set-on must be done using the correct part of the guide plates. (Note: It is "physically possible" to use the thicker section to set the finger width if you remove the stock ledges- DON'T DO IT, it won't work. I have never checked to see if it is possible to incorrectly use the fins portion during "kiss calibration", but it won't work either!).

[Matt Meiser]

Using the thicker portion for KISS calibration, thinner for setting the finger width.

Just for the heck of it, what are the thin and thick dimensions of those plates supposed to be?

[Alan Schaffter]

Using the thicker portion for KISS calibration, thinner for setting the finger width.

Just for the heck of it, what are the thin and thick dimensions of those plates supposed to be?

Matt, this should tell you what you need to know:

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/2404/medium/Guide_plates.jpg

You can see why the guide plates must be closed correctly to "kiss calibrate" and why you must use the correct faces for calibration and when setting the spacing to the dado kerf. If you understand the principle of the jig, you can see that it will theoretically make a joint with fingers slightly over .090" wide but blade clearance will be nil. The published minimum finger size is 1/8" (.125") which gives a tad more clearance, but there is still only .035" of clearance between the blade tips and the guide plate. To make it cut narrower fingers the guide plate fins would be too thin and not be strong or rigid enough.

And you guys thought designing this jig was a simple task! :D

[Cameron Hood]

"Cameron, are you doing 1/4" joints for your test? The one full turn would seem to match mine, but I don't notice any backlash--things seem to move right away, apparently just at the wrong rate. Don't really understand how that could happen without seeing the mechanism. "

Yes Matt, that is exactly what I am doing in my tests. I am using the two blade method of cutting dados--quarter inch with blades one way, three eights when turned the other way if that matters. By the way, after I turned the silver knob the one full turn, I previously said it was too tight--and it is, but I did manage to pound it together without it splitting, so it isn't that far off.

Thanks Alan for the measurements. Tomorrow I will go out in the shop and check all the measurements on my IBox to see if they appear to be off. I am also going to check to see if my perceptions are right about the "slop" and exactly how much the guide plates move when the silver knob is turned one full turn. I also can check to see exactly what size the test cut is, the exact thickness of my double saw blades, and how close I am when I do the kerf gauging. Then maybe we can find out what is going on.

[Matt Meiser]

Is 0.035" safe on a Sawstop?

I'll measure my plates tomorrow. But I'm guessing if they were wrong the error would be constant?

[Alan Schaffter]

Is 0.035" safe on a Sawstop?



That is 1/32" and should be fine since you are not putting side forces on the jig . . . . unless you are using a warped or bent blade, forgot to tighten the saw's arbor nut, bent the guide plates, failed to tighten the jig's miter bar mounting screws, etc. All the kinds of things you must watch before using any machine. You should always make a pass with the I-BOX with the saw off to check clearances before turning the saw on and using the jig.

[glenn bradley]

Hi Glenn and Matt,
I know you both have the Sawstop PCS 3HP. I have the same saw. Does the I-Box work with Sawstop without triggering the brake?
Mike

No problem. I always do a test run with the safety mechanism disabled to see if I get the indication that the saw would have triggered when trying any new/questionable procedure.

[glenn bradley]

Matt
My intial problem, which if I recall correctly caused the problem you are having was the step bringing the 2 pins together then over tightening after they had touched. I learned to just get them to touch and not much tighter.
Dan

+1 on this. The instructions could be expanded a bit although you can't out guess everyone's interpretation of something in print. When the manual states:

"While the black positioning lock knob is still loose, rotate the red knob to bring the (2) pin plates together as shown in Detail 1B."

apparently I was not the only one who turned the knob to get them snug. the plates are brought together till they just touch, and no further, as any tension will shift the pair out of position resulting in misaligned joints.


Like Matt Meiser, I have exactly the same problem and after doing the whole process about a half dozen times, I came to the conclusion that this jig is no better than my home made ones. After running test pieces, I have a sloppy joint and no amount of cranking the silver knob does anything that will tighten it up. If there isn't something wrong with my particular jig, then I am extremely disappointed. At this point, I don't know what to do.

There is a bit of a learning curve for some of us. I thought I was alone but, have read numerous accounts of the same mistake. Once you get the "feel" for the jig and learn to not over-tighten things, its a breeze. I had a forum member drop by for a show and tell on her I-Box and we set it up and made perfect joints the first time. This was based solely on my learning not to over-tighten the pin plates.

Although I still use a scrap sac-fence with a wooden pin installed on the fly as quickly and accurately as the I-Box it is a well thought out little jig that offers repeatability as its greatest asset to me. Once set for a given project, I can make fingers, put the jig back in the drawer and do further construction, return the jig to the saw and make more fingers without an additional setup and so forth.

When I am just making one set of box joints for a single item I do not bother with the time to setup the I-Box. I just saw a kerf in a sacrificial fence, install a pin, shift the fence and cut the joints. For larger numbers of joints or especially when needing to go back and make more of the same joint, the I-Box is quite helpful.

[Cameron Hood]

Good Morning Matt and Alan

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. We woke up this morning with a bit of a cold snap. It is -34C (-29F) this morning and with the wind (windchill) it is -50C (-58F). Needless to say, things take a little longer to get moving at that temperature, especially old bones!

Okay, here is some measurements for you to ponder:

Saw blades and cut both measure exactly .25"
Kerf indexing faces measure .10" to .11" depending on how hard I squeeze and is a bit bigger than the .09" Alan reported. I might be able to get .10 if I cranked it hard enough but I doubt .09 would be possible.
Kerf indexing faces (fat portion) measure .27"
With the indexing faces apart by .25" and holding the red, turning the silver one complete turn, the indexing faces remain .25" wide--that is, no movement at all
As above, measuring from the right side of the left material plate to the left side of the kerf indexing faces was .54" before and .51 after 1 complete turn

If there are more measurements to make, just let me know.

[Alan Schaffter]

Good Morning Matt and Alan

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. We woke up this morning with a bit of a cold snap. It is -34C (-29F) this morning and with the wind (windchill) it is -50C (-58F). Needless to say, things take a little longer to get moving at that temperature, especially old bones!

Okay, here is some measurements for you to ponder:

Saw blades and cut both measure exactly .25"
Kerf indexing faces measure .10" to .11" depending on how hard I squeeze and is a bit bigger than the .09" Alan reported. I might be able to get .10 if I cranked it hard enough but I doubt .09 would be possible. I just did a quick measurement. As I tried to illustrate in my diagram, regardless of the actual dimensions, the key relationship is that the combined thickness of both guide plate fins, when the guide plates are properly touching, should equal the shoulder depth (between calibration face and indexing face.)

Kerf indexing faces (fat portion) measure .27"
With the indexing faces apart by .25" and holding the red, turning the silver one complete turn, the indexing faces remain .25" wide--that is, no movement at all I hope so! The silver knob should never change the spacing between the indexing faces. It just moves both sets, in unison, closer or farther from the blade.

As above, measuring from the right side of the left material plate to the left side of the kerf indexing faces was .54" before and .51 after 1 complete turn One revolution of the silver knob should shift both indexing plates exactly 1/32" (.03125") which appears to be about what you got.


If there are more measurements to make, just let me know.

[Matt Meiser]

Matt, this should tell you what you need to know:

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/2404/medium/Guide_plates.jpg


Bingo!

Plates together are 0.123 -- 0.033 oversize! That number is familiar ;)
279065

The plate that affects my KISS calibration. 0.130 thick, upper dimension is 0.053. That means the offset is 0.077, not the 0.090!
279073279074

The other plate is 0.133 thick, upper dimension is 0.069 -- offset is 0.064.
279066279067

Quick visual check shows the backside is machined the same so I can't just flip them around for now.

Phew...I'm not crazy! :D
(Unless I mis-measured...wouldn't be the first.)

[Alan Schaffter]

Matt, assuming your caliper technique is correct, it looks like you may have a bad set of guide plates. I just took a few measurements off my production unit with a Wixey digital caliper. While my numbers varied by a few thou either way depending on my technique, they were very close to, and likely right on spec. I wrote my results in red next to your numbers below.

Is INCRA swapping out the entire jig or sending you a new set of guide plates?


Bingo!

(Alan's = .091") Plates together are 0.123 -- 0.033 oversize! That number is familiar ;)
279065

The plate that affects my KISS calibration. 0.130 thick, upper dimension is 0.053. (Alan's = 0.133 +/- 0.001" and 0.044" +/- 0.001) That means the offset is 0.077, not the 0.090! (Alan's= 0.089")
279073279074

The other plate is 0.133 thick, upper dimension is 0.069 -- offset is 0.064.
279066279067

Quick visual check shows the backside is machined the same so I can't just flip them around for now.

Phew...I'm not crazy! :D
(Unless I mis-measured...wouldn't be the first.)

[Matt Meiser]

Is INCRA swapping out the entire jig or sending you a new set of guide plates?

They were going to swap out the whole thing but I just sent him this. At first I thought I'd have them send just plates, but after thinking some more I think I want the whole thing replaced as this is the second issue I found with it--it also appeared to have been dropped on a corner before packaging and one of the stock ledge mounting rails on the body was bent. I straightened it and filed off the ding but still, I don't want to replace the plates and find yet another problem. I've wasted way too much time on it already.

After my extra calibration steps I just got the first two sets of boxes cut for my daughter. It does work nice. Just stopped to see who texted me...my wife from the house to tell me that they just announced a Level 3 Snow Emergency in the Ohio county just to the south of us starting at 5:30. That means you can be arrested for driving! Good day to be in the shop.

[Alan Schaffter]

It is cold here in North Carolina, but no snow. In any case, in a few weeks, I think LOML and I will head to Florida for a week. I remember one winter I spent in IL was the coldest I've ever experienced.

[Cameron Hood]

Well Matt, we aren't getting any snow, and the wind chill factor went from -50C to -45C so things are really looking up!

I compared your measurements to mine and the only one that was significantly different was the offset (your picture #2 verus #3). Mine was .09 and yours was .77. My cheap set of digital calipers do not measure to 3 decimal places and as usual, my other good set of calipers have a dead battery and no amount of looking around the house found any correct batteries. One of the things I did notice is that the two fingers at the thin end measure different thicknesses that happen to add up to .01. The left side is .04 and the right side is .06. Again, I don't know if that is an issue or not.

So that leaves me at a point of deciding what to do. If I understand this discussion so far, it would appear that my unit is within spec. The only conclusion left is that I am doing something wrong. Having spent probably 2 days on this since Christmas and yet to get a good box joint out of it, maybe it isn't for me. As Glenn Bradley said, maybe there is a learning curve that I am unable to get through. Thanks to you and Alan for the help.

[Matt Meiser]

Got these all cut today now that I understand what is going on and how to deal with it until Incra can swap the jig out. I still need to sand the insides before i can glue them up. The small one on top is my test box from the other day. It certainly is precise. And dusty.

279117

For those using them...Box joint blade or dado blade? I'm using the box joint blade I got dirt cheap on clearance but it doesn't seem to really have any advantage.

[Alan Schaffter]

Got these all cut today now that I understand what is going on and how to deal with it until Incra can swap the jig out. I still need to sand the insides before i can glue them up. The small one on top is my test box from the other day. It certainly is precise. And dusty.

279117

For those using them...Box joint blade or dado blade? I'm using the box joint blade I got dirt cheap on clearance but it doesn't seem to really have any advantage.

Matt- they look great! Make sure you take care when gluing them! I hate it when I almost ruin a beautiful box joint by not clamping the sides well enough to seat all the fingers tightly.

It can be difficult to glue up and assemble a box when the fingers fit snugly, especially if the stock is thin and the fingers intentionally left a tad long. Since the clamps can't be applied to the joint if the fingers stick out, you must clamp the sides which can deflect when the clamps are tightened. To solve this, I used the I-BOX to make a bunch (8) of stubby fingered clamping pads in a few of the standard finger sizes so I can put the clamp directly on the joint. If I'm doing a number of boxes with odd sized fingers, it doesn't take long to make a special set of these clamping pads. They work well and take the frustration out of clamping.

* to make it quicker and easier to position my pads and ensure the stubby fingers don't overlap adjacent fingers on the joint, I used a chisel to put a slight chamfer on all the corners of each clamping pad finger. I have a set of 8 of each size, only enough for clamping one box at a time- by the time I'm done applying glue to all the fingers and assemble the second box, the glue and fingers of the first box have set long enough that I can usually remove the clamps and pads and use them on second box.

[Bill Huber]

For small boxes I use the things from Rockler, they really work great for 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2". I use a spring loaded band clamp and it pulls them right together.

http://www.rockler.com/box-joint-cauls-box-joint-jig-cauls-sold-separately


279164

[Matt Meiser]

Matt- they look great! Make sure you take care when gluing them! I hate it when I almost ruin a beautiful box joint by not clamping the sides well enough to seat all the fingers tightly.

Yep, glue-up anxiety is the main reason they aren't done yet!

[Stan Mitchell]

Bingo!

Plates together are 0.123 -- 0.033 oversize! That number is familiar ;)
279065

The plate that affects my KISS calibration. 0.130 thick, upper dimension is 0.053. That means the offset is 0.077, not the 0.090!
279073279074

The other plate is 0.133 thick, upper dimension is 0.069 -- offset is 0.064.
279066279067

Quick visual check shows the backside is machined the same so I can't just flip them around for now.

Phew...I'm not crazy! :D
(Unless I mis-measured...wouldn't be the first.)

Well, bad news for me too.

I ordered an IBox just about the time Matt shared his issue. Just tried it out this afternoon and immediately had the same problem.

I just now measured the guide plates and came up with .117 with the plates set together. Evidently there's a bad batch of plates that are out there.

Hopefully I can get INCRA to send another set of guide plates. Otherwise the IBox is really neat jig and I know others have had great success with them.

[Matt Meiser]

I am now in possession of a second brand new I-Box, ordered from Amazon because i was concerned about getting one from the same lot, which my club is raffling off at our monthly meeting after I demo it. This one the plates measure correctly.

[Kelly Craig]

You can use it to make dentils......
You can make the fingers stand proud and sand them over a bit rounding them over a bit....
You can........

[Matt Meiser]

Well, the club's I-Box I did a test setup at home and got fairly close. I set it up again at our club meeting on the host's saw and got within .015 and dialed it right in with calipers. Since I was trying to explain and do at the same time I made a couple mistakes--started to move the red knob without unlocking, moved the red knob while explaining, etc, so it was probably not a good test.

Wednesday my new one showed up. Again the measurements match Alan's. I just set it up and did a test cut. Perfection. Actually probably too perfect--I'd probably loosen it up a couple thousandths if I was going to really assemble it.

Now I need to go find Alan's thread on building a dust hood for the back side.

[Alan Schaffter]

Well, the club's I-Box I did a test setup at home and got fairly close. I set it up again at our club meeting on the host's saw and got within .015 and dialed it right in with calipers. Since I was trying to explain and do at the same time I made a couple mistakes--started to move the red knob without unlocking, moved the red knob while explaining, etc, so it was probably not a good test.

Wednesday my new one showed up. Again the measurements match Alan's. I just set it up and did a test cut. Perfection. Actually probably too perfect--I'd probably loosen it up a couple thousandths if I was going to really assemble it.

Now I need to go find Alan's thread on building a dust hood for the back side.

Glad to hear all is well!

As far as a rear dust shroud, you have a number of options:



If you are experienced heat forming plexiglass you can make a fancy looking one from that, but getting something that looks nice without bubbles or burned areas can be difficult.

You can bend some sheet metal, but be careful of this one, you don't want to damage the blade or fire a Sawstop.

The quickest and easiest is to make your own version of the rear guard from stacked MDF. Use your bandsaw to make an opening for the dust.

Bulkhead hose fittings and elbows are available from a number of the usual suspects.

Disclaimer: None of these mods are approved by INCRA so you use them at your own risk:

Horizontal back- best of the two plexi versions I tested:

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/2404/Extended_guard-rear.jpg

Sloped back:

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/2404/medium/IMG_3451.jpg

MDF version:

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/2404/medium/IMG_3809.JPG

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/2404/medium/IMG_38061.JPG

Angle the elbow and hose to the nearest side of the table. Don't run it back towards you because the vac hose coils will catch on the rear edge of the table or fence rail and impede feeding the I-BOX.

[John Stankus]

Matt, assuming your caliper technique is correct, it looks like you may have a bad set of guide plates. I just took a few measurements off my production unit with a Wixey digital caliper. While my numbers varied by a few thou either way depending on my technique, they were very close to, and likely right on spec. I wrote my results in red next to your numbers below.

Is INCRA swapping out the entire jig or sending you a new set of guide plates?


Hate to be me too on this...but mines out of spec as well. Plates together 0.120 in left plate thick part 0.1335 in thin 0.0630 in right plate thick 0.1305 in and thin 0.0530 in.
I sent Incra an email, and I am confident they will make it right.

But since I don't get much opportunity to get out into the shop during the semester (I teach and haven't been as good at saying "no" to adminstration's requests for extra duties as my wife would like :) ) I would like to be able to use it on this weekend that I am free (might be a while before I have more shop time).

Matt, how did you do your extra calibration?

Alan, is it possible to do the KISS calibration with shim to account for the error (I haven't thought through the direction of error)? If so how big of a shim? Would it be the gap, or half the gap distance?


I can see this will be a cool jig once I get the in-spec parts.

Thanks

John

stankus@ix.netcom.com

[Matt Meiser]

John, what I found was that I could follow the directions they give, then measure my pins and slots with calipers. Then unlock the black knob and use the silver knob (don't let the red knob move) to adjust that many thousands, minus maybe 10 for glue.

[Alan Schaffter]

Frankly, when I was working on the design, I could easily do all the analysis and math in my head (my brain isn't so fast now), but I still usually made a hand or SketchUp drawing to verify things. I would just contact INCRA and not try to make a set of bad pins work. They will make it right.

Remember you have two motions going on. During kiss calibration the nested guide pins move together as one when you turn the silver knob, but when setting the finger size with the red knob, the pin closest to the blade side moves X while the pin furthest from the blade moves 2X.

The I-BOX was designed so it can be precisely set and used without the need for calipers. However, it is possible to (re)calibrate using calipers but this method is prone to measurement error. If you want to try it, calibrate the normal way just to get close, then use the red knob to set the finger width using a dado blade setup cut. Now use calipers to measure the finger width setting of the jig (outside face of one fin to the outside face of the other). Use the silver knob to adjust the blade-to-pin spacing to the same dimension. Again, this is prone to measurement error. Unless you must absolutely make some finger joints now, I would wait for INCRA to send a new set of pins or a new jig.

[John Stankus]

I would wait for INCRA to send a new set of pins or a new jig.

Yes I know you are right about waiting for things to be made right. Frustrating though not to be able to play with the new toy.

John

[Matt Meiser]

They did tell me that the pins may not measure the same as what Alan shows due to a change. I do t get how that would work? And regardless, when they switched mine out it worked so I'm confident it wasn't me.

[Alan Schaffter]

They did tell me that the pins may not measure the same as what Alan shows due to a change. I do t get how that would work? And regardless, when they switched mine out it worked so I'm confident it wasn't me.

Matt, as long as the combined thickness of both "fins", when the guide pins are in contact in the calibration position (see my earlier drawing), is exactly equal to the distance (depth of shoulder) between the calibration face and the face of the "fin", any thickness of guide pin will work - "within limits." (Unless integral calibration is abandoned)

There are two interrelated issues to consider if the thickness of the guide pins is changed, however:

Obviously, if the pins are too thin, the "fins" will be too thin as well, and therefore less sturdy and easier to damage.

If thicker pins are used (the "fins," by necessity, must be thicker as well). The blade clearance at the current minimum recommended finger width setting (1/8") will be reduced and you risk a blade strike. If pin thickness is increase too much, the minimum recommended finger width will need to be increased to something greater than the published 1/8".

A thickness was chosen for the best combination of all factors to yield guide pins that- could be made reliably and accurately from a commonly available thickness of steel, would allow a narrow finger size (1/8", the narrowest in the industry and smallest possible without using a 3/32" thin kerf blade), would provide adequate pin strength, rigidity, and sufficient blade clearance.

Another way to think about the geometry of the guide pins/"fins" - Take a look at the pins in the calibration position in my earlier drawing. They are actually positioned for the jig's "theoretical" minimum finger width which is equal to the depth of the guide pin/"fin" shoulder. I say "theoretical" because that setting can't be used since there would be 0.0000" (zero) blade clearance!! The "practical" minimum finger width must be wider- remember, as you increase the guide pin spacing both guide pins also move away from the blade.

My pin "dimensions" above are caliper readings. l am unaware of any changes to the guide pin sizing. I'll need to contact INCRA to see if they have made any.