Penncraft Radial Arm Saw?

[Rick Potter]

Anybody got any experience with a Penncraft (J, C, Penny's) Radial arm saw?? I have seen a couple clean ones lately on CL, and they are the turret type, made by Rockwell, or Delta. Is it a lighter weight stripped down Rockwell, or completely different?

Just curious. There is a really clean one for $50, which seems like a giveaway for a turret model. I would just use it for dado's, as I am happy with my DeWalt 7790.

Rick Potter

[Mike Gresham]

Rick,

JCP did not generally have these type of products spec built as some retailers did. For example, I have a JCP rototiller from 1977 that was made by Toro, Their idea of spec built was to have the unit painted yellow over the Toro red and use JCP badging. If you look at the user manual for the JCP and Toro versions the only difference is JCP put in place of Toro. The JCP parts diagram even lists Toro part numbers.

I believe the JCP radial arm saws were made by Rockwell. If you could locate user manuals for both, it might give you some clues as to whether they are the same or not.

[HANK METZ]

Get it now Rick, before someone else who knows the value does. $50 is definitely a steal. Photos of some at Vintage Machine site, it will play well with your DeWalt. You might consider fabricating the newer style of top for it too.

[Lee Reep]

I was not aware that JCP sold power tools back in the 70s. Heck, I was a Craftsman guy. :)

If it is in good working condition, I do not see a down side. I have a Craftsman radial arm saw I bought new in 1976. That was back when Craftsman built pretty decent stuff. The column is one piece cast iron, milled. Later models went to bolt-together metal halves (I'd call it pot metal). I still use mine almost daily. I used it for every type of cut until I bought a table saw about 10 years ago,and some time thereafter, a compound miter saw. Now the RAS is just for crosscuts (up to about 17"), and dadoes on long boards, or "crosscut dadoes" on shorter boards.. It is superb for that, and darn near impossible to do crosscut dadoes on a table saw -- just too tough to feed. I do use my router table for a lot of dado and rabbet operations, so there are numerosu ways to solve the same problem. The RAS just gives you one more.

The RAS got a bad rap as they started to degrade in quality in the 80s, but an older model like you are looking at can be quite precise if kept in alignment. If mine is not moved, it gets aligned maybe every few years. But it does tend to get moved or bumped so I periodically check its squareness to make sure it is dead on. And most of the time it is.

I hope the saw is a good one. Give it a good tuneup, and you will enjoy it a lot. I have an AGE/Amana 60T blade that I got on sale for $45 that is pretty decent. Buy the best you can. I recently put a Forrest Woodworker II ripping blade on my table saw, and that blade is just amazing. As a result, I will eventually put the Forrest 60T crosscut blade on the RAS when it is time for another blade. (And at some point will send out a few old blades for resharpening ...)

[Loren Woirhaye]

Turret saws are probably a good bet. Even if it wasn't made by Delta, the engineering is a good idea and probably more costly to build than the cheap version of the standard RAS design typified by Dewalt and Craftsman (at different quality levels). You can also rip shorter pieces with them by moving the carriage instead of pushing the work. I think the turret saws may have greater crosscut capacity at 45 degrees than the standard saws because the pivot point is moved out in front of the fence. The drawback is the fence and table get carved up something awful if you do a lot of angles.

[Rick Potter]

Thanks guys,

I have a craftsman RAS that I use only for dado's, and a DeWalt 7790 12" RAS for crosscuts (never gets angled). I am interested in a Delta/Rockwell turret type because I really like having the up/down crank on the front like the C-man, and also want the front knobs for changing out the fence. I change height, as well as moving the fence around a lot when doing different sized dado's, and the rear mounted tabs on my C-man are broken, and hard to access. If I can get a nice Delta/Rockwell cheap, I will replace the Craftsman with it. I have to be selective though, as not all Deltas have the front controls.

The PennCraft is interesting, and I am gonna check it out. It is really handy to have a dedicated dado machine set up. I just roll it out of the way when I don't need it.

So, anybody have/had a PennCraft?

Rick Potter

[Joseph Tarantino]

for $50, does it really matter what anyone else's experience is? it can always be resold to reduce any negligible loss.

[HANK METZ]

for $50, does it really matter what anyone else's experience is? it can always be resold to reduce any negligible loss.

I'll second Joe's advice Rick, anything you learn from the experience will not be time wasted- stop equivocating and get the thing! :eek:

[Rick Potter]

I have too many tools cluttering up my shop, that I bought to see if I liked them. Most I will not keep, and at my advanced age, I don't care to redo another tool if I am not sure I will use it. It looks like a Rockwell 990 to me, but doesn't have the front fence tighteners that I would like to have. I'm thinkin' about it, but if it goes away, I can handle that too. As I said, I have the above two saws already, plus an OMGA, 37" stroke, I haven't gotten around to yet (don't know if I ever will). It's the new me..........trying to stop being a collector.

You young whippersnappers are always in a hurry :p.

Rick Potter

[HANK METZ]

Aha! Another tool hoarder finally comes out of the closet. :o

[Guy Belleman]

Rick, if you have too many tools already, then I see two options. First, is to get to work and quit looking at bargains. Second, is to change your job/hobby to being a tool locator and just announce to others these good deals you find. :rolleyes:

[Rick Potter]

OK, OK,

I bought it already. Sight unseen. It's a long way from where I live, and a friend is picking it up and keeping it a couple months for me, till I go visit him. It looks like a Rockwell 900, and from the pic it has not been used and abused. I guess that remains to be seen. Funny thing, there is another just like it five miles from me. Not as clean though.

If anyone has info on Penncraft model 4183, ser #2540D, I sure would like to know how old it is. I figure close to 50. Of course my DeWalt 7790 is 30, and I still think of it as a late model.

There is no cure for tool hoarding, might as well surrender to that fact.

Rick Potter

[david brum]

Rick, a quick peek at at the OWWM photo archives shows that it's a Rockwell/Delta 105. They have the owners manual for download on the site. I'm pretty sure I can't give you a link to it, but it's easy to find.

Cool saw. I wish I had enough room for a second RAS.

[Rick Potter]

Thanks, David,

I saw that one saw on OWWM, which referred to a manual, but didn't realize the manual was available. I will check it out.

The owner said his father in law bought it new, and just used it for hobby.

Thanks,
Rick P

[Charles Coolidge]

I'm rebuilding this RAS now, 1952 Delta Multiplex 40-B, takes 12" or 14" blades, crosscuts 15" of 2" thick stock, 2HP. So much cast iron 2 men were barely able to lift it into the back of my truck. The motor alone weighs 52 pounds. Its been a money pit I'm in it over $900 but its still less than the $1,200 I was prepared to spend on a sliding miter saw.

Saw (Craigslist) - $150

Motor Repair - $400 I wanted it reconditioned like new, bearings, electronic starter, capacitor, sand blasted, painted, windings dipped and baked.

Carriage Rails - $61 these are four 1/4 inch precision ground hardened steel rods, the old ones were wasted.

Carriage Bearings - $120 ouch that was with a discount for buying 4 of them

Spur Gear - $15 old one had broken teeth

Thrust Bearings - $24

Needle Bearings - $11

Clamp Handle - $22 ebay this handle was missing

Stainless Hardware - $60 the original 61 year old nuts and bolts had seen better days.

Supplies - $60 paint stripper, Evaporust, wire brushes, etc.

279231

[Rick Potter]

That is going to be one awesome saw, Charles,

Sounds like you got lucky and found a single phase one. A friend of mine recently got a 16" with a single phase motor, and is almost done rebuilding the whole thing. The cast iron in the base is unbelievable, and his saw weighs a ton also. He made up a great table for it, and is almost ready to get it on the road. We couldn't believe how well built it was. You will love yours.

The one I am getting looks like the baby brother to yours. It takes a 9 or 10" blade, which will work fine for me, as it will always have a dado set on it for doing shelving units.


David.....thanks, I looked up that manual, and it is the right one. It is Listed twice on OWWM, once as a PennCraft, and then again as a Delta/Rockwell 105. The only difference in the manuals is the company names, like Mike Gresham said they did for his TORO.

Rick Potter

[Edward Oleen]

Took a look at the DeWalt 7790. Looks like a very nice item. Just wondering... did you send in the warrantee registration card??????

[Rick Potter]

279452 279453 279454 279455

If you mean my 7790, Edward, It was a 1983 model, I think. I bought it from a friend in about 1993. He sold it because he said it would not stay in tune, he was very unhappy with it, and had hardly used it. I paid $300 for it, brought it home and found that he had all the adjustments finger tight. No wonder it would not hold an adjustment.

I went through it, and adjusted everything. It held those adjustments through a lot of use, and a move. It finally went out a little bit when another friend tried to cut 4x6's with it. He didn't notice it had a 100 tooth blade and a blade stabilizer on it, and it would bind on anything bigger than a 2" thickness. He kept trying to force it (I wasn't home) till it finally got pulled out of line, ruining my zero clearance fence, and sacrificial table insert.

A couple simple adjustments, some fence work and a new insert, and I was back in business. It is a nice saw, crosscuts 16 1/4" the way I have it set up. Some say the older round top models are better, but I am very happy with this one. It's a 12" and the electronic brake works fine.

Here are a couple pics of it.

279433


EDIT: Here are the rest of those pics. The site would not let me do it last nite. I accidentally put them at the top of the page, and don't know how to move them. Sorry about the Felder pic. Don't know how that got in the mix. I am not very computer savvy.

[Charles Coolidge]

That is going to be one awesome saw, Charles,

Sounds like you got lucky and found a single phase one. A friend of mine recently got a 16" with a single phase motor, and is almost done rebuilding the whole thing. The cast iron in the base is unbelievable, and his saw weighs a ton also. He made up a great table for it, and is almost ready to get it on the road. We couldn't believe how well built it was. You will love yours.

The one I am getting looks like the baby brother to yours. It takes a 9 or 10" blade, which will work fine for me, as it will always have a dado set on it for doing shelving units.


David.....thanks, I looked up that manual, and it is the right one. It is Listed twice on OWWM, once as a PennCraft, and then again as a Delta/Rockwell 105. The only difference in the manuals is the company names, like Mike Gresham said they did for his TORO.

Rick Potter

Thanks Rick, yep 2HP single phase. Do you have any pics of your friends table for his 16"? Yeah they are built like a tank, I heaved the cast iron base up on a table tonight and shot the underside with enamel. I have all the parts in now and have been cleaning/stripping things while I waited so I'm in the paint phase. Wrong time of year for painting hard to tell how long it will take to dry. I'm going to setup some shop heaters tomorrow and see if I can speed things along. I'm on the fence regarding the stand. I have the original factory stand, I guess its okay but all 42 bolts on the stand are rusted. I'd have to grind them all off then clean, sand, paint the thing that's going to take a lot of time. I'm half inclined to throw this saw on a mobile Kreg stand I have and pitch the factory stand.

[HANK METZ]

... respectful snip

Some say the older round top models are better, but I am very happy with this one. It's a 12" and the electronic brake works fine.

Here are a couple pics of it.

279433

I get irritated when I hear guys spout off about how some of the later models are a poor step child to the original domed tops. The 7790 is widely considered to have one of the best motors DeWalt ever hung on a radial arm saw, new or old, and although the ironworks are not as robust as others, it too is a good piece of machinery if operated within it's performance envelope.