Torsion box workbench for hand tool use?

[Jared Walters]

I was all set to use a laminated douglas fir top for my new workbench (basically hand tool only use), but I asked for tips on ripping the lumber without a table saw over in the general woodworking forum and they explained a myriad of difficulties I will have staying accurate, wood warping, etc. Several people recommended a torsion box design made out of plywood. It sounds like a great idea, keeps it flat and light... but is it really suitable for a hand-tool bench? I'm afraid it may not be stout enough? Also it causes some additional design difficulties like how to attach the face vise or make dog holes work.

Anyone have experience with benches like this? Or should I scrap the idea and just try to laminate 2x4s?

[Matt Radtke]

I was in that thread. Just laminate up some 2x stock.

Torsion boxes aren't the best for hand tool work. Specifically the voids in the torsion setup when chopping. Had an argument with someone about how much flex and found an engineer to ask. Turns out the voids waste a ton of energy by flexing.

[Michael Peet]

I read the other thread too. I agree that a solid top would be a better choice for hand tool work. It is going to be heaver than the same volume torsion box. Holes for dogs and holdfasts also become more complicated with a torsion box, as you noted.

If you give yourself enough wiggle room you can use BORG lumber; it seems there have been several builds in which that was done.

Mike

[Garrett Ellis]

This is one of my favorite reference threads for a bench using borg lumber

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?102141-New-Year-new-workbench-mucho-pics!

Also, I think you mentioned trying to get 3 pieces from each 2x12. Probably better to pick boards from close to center of the tree, then rip out the middle and get 2 boards, 1 from each side

[Mark Kornell]

I've been following that thread as well...

Simply laminate up 2x4s. Be very selective when picking the 2x4s and only use the straightest, most knot-free ones in the pile. And if there aren't enough, go back in a few days and pick through another lift.

Laminate them together, roundovers and all. You'll need to flatten the top anyways and softwood planes pretty easily. The bottom doesn't need near as much love as the top.

The 2x4s will have a relatively high moisture content when you bring them home and will want to dry fairly quickly. Laminate them as soon as possible after you get them home. Even a 3 day delay will result in warpage that may make a few of the 2x4s unusable.

Laminated together, the.warpage will be more controlled. You may need to do a couple of additional flattenings over the first 3 months as the moisture content reaches equilibrium.

For $25 or $30 in lumber, 2x4s will make a good benchtop. And if you decide to upgrade it to something harder down the road, you can easily repurpose the slab.

[Jim Matthews]

You can make a proper bench with the locally sourced lumber.

It will help if you select boards that have more quartersawn volumes, and rip them to remove any pith.
It's an extra step to insure stability that the torsion box design seeks to avoid.

Search Joshua Finn workbench to see a professional take an this alternative.

I would not follow that approach, but rather would build a laminated plywood top as built by Paul Miller (http://prmdesigns.com/page15.html).

He was kind enough to provide a SketchUp model of his clever V8 Wedge powered workbench.
If I were building my first bench - I would build one like Paul's.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liHVemMxGJQ

[Greg Fletcher]

If you haven't read Chris Schwarz's workbench you may want to read those first particulary the Workbench Design Book which has a bench made of laminated plywood which would be easier than a top laminated of lumber.

The bench I am currently using isn't a "proper" traditional bench meaning that it doesn't have a face vice or end vice. I am planning to build a new bench. In the area I live I can get rough ash or maple for $2 or less per board foot but this is going to be my "first" bench. I could envision selling or giving it away when I have a desire for a different design. So I went to the local home center and looked at lumber. The blue box has southern yellow pine in my area. Schwarz's $175 ($280 with inflation) workbench uses eight 2x8x12s which are about $100. That would be suitable for a test bench or maybe the only bench. If you look at lumber as the lengths get longer and the widths wider the pieces are clearer and straighter. You could always rip it with a circular saw either freehand or with a masonite/plywood sawguide. Either way they will need to be jointed for squareness and planed to flatness.

[Jim Foster]

Jared,

You should probably start a post about your bench goals that discusses the bench, what it will be for and what tools and space you have and your skills. Getting Schwarz's workbench book is a great start if you do not have it already. Schwarz's book has two bench builds in it, one is an English workbench that may be an appropriate option to consider.

[Tony Wilkins]

+1 on the Blue Bench book from Schwarz. The English/Nicholson bench is a type of torsion box that is appropriate for hand tool use. A couple of popular ones that aren't threshed out as much in that book are the Klaus/Tage/Fried or 'German' (i.e. European Tradition) bench and the Shaker Bench. There's a good journal of one being built over on woodtalkonline.org. It is one with drawers underneath that isn't for everyone. Each comes with it's own strengths and weaknesses. Of course this is coming from someone who's still deciding which to build lol.



Jared,

You should probably start a post about your bench goals that discusses the bench, what it will be for and what tools and space you have and your skills. Getting Schwarz's workbench book is a great start if you do not have it already. Schwarz's book has two bench builds in it, one is an English workbench that may be an appropriate option to consider.

[Tony Wilkins]

Almost forgot. Recent new member here and long time member over there, Graham (gshaydon) has a project journal on building the Nicholson/English bench on that site with several videos.

[Jared Walters]

I really appreciate all the help. I have read that book, but the reason I looked away from the english bench is because the apron makes it difficult (or impossible) to clamp things to the bench top.

[Jim Foster]

I would not let that concern stop you, if it's the best choice. I think you'd find there are a number of fast, easy methods to clamp to the bench.

I think I saw in one of your previous posts that you live in an apartment. Making a bench was probably the messiest project I've done to date because of all the sawdust shavings, cutoffs, etc..., that resulted from the construction. I would suggest looking at buying a ready-to-use laminated top, and possibly designing a knock-down construction of the legs and stretchers. It might also be worth asking a local cabinet shop if they would make the top in fir construction lumber for a reasonable price. The shortest most affordable path to a useful bench in your present habitat might take a little more forethought and a compromise of the ideal bench.


I really appreciate all the help. I have read that book, but the reason I looked away from the English bench is because the apron makes it difficult (or impossible) to clamp things to the bench top.

[Jim Koepke]

I have come to like a minimal apron on my bench. Though not as tall as the apron on the traditional Nicholson bench.

If you are considering laminated borg wood take a stroll by the 2X3s. When I had a lot of light framing to do I would go by them every time and look at the ends for straight grained pieces. I would always straighten up the stacks when I was done. That is appreciated by the folks working there.

When putting things like this together it is also a good idea to run a plane over each piece to get a feel for the best direction to plane. Mark it and then get them all aligned for the glue up. Once it is a solid top it will be easier to get the top smooth.

jtk

[Russell Sansom]

I haven't invested the time in the other threads, but I have a modest proposal.
This worked for me in a very tiny workspace. In 1972. It was meant to be a port in my particular storm but I'm still using the bench.

Acquire two 8/4 Maple boards. 8 inches wide will do nicely.
Join then edge to edge. Dowels or splines. I prefer splines. It helps if the two boards plane properly in the same direction.

You can set or screw from below to a structure of 4X4 posts.

It is then trivial to add a vise or remove a corner and build in a traditional tail vise from scratch. Drill or chop dog holes along the front.

It will take flattening, of course. You can inlay ( or not ) two support boards under the workbench, say maple 2 X 4's, running front to back.

This IS a workbench. Maple of this sort is still available mail-order or with a creative drive to a nearby mill.

[Jared Walters]

That is an excellent idea. Sometimes the simple solutions just slip right by me as I strain my brain working through needlessly-complex ones. I even know this place in Mesa like 15 minutes away that I'm pretty sure sells 8/4 maple.

Oh and there is no way I'm building this in my tiny apartment. My fiance would murder me. I'm driving the materials to my parents house an hour away and using their garage. I will attach the top to the base with lag bolts and then reassemble it in my apartment.

[Jim Matthews]

An inexpensive alternative is butcher block from Ikea.
If you can't find the thickness you're after, glue and screw two countertops together.

I dunno how far you are from Tempe, but the Ikea website says they're open.
http://www.ikeahackers.net/2012/04/work-bench-made-from-trofast-toy-storage-units.html

[Jared Walters]

I tried a couple weeks ago but they said they sell out same day they come in and they aren't expecting any more until February.

[Roderick Gentry]

Torsion box makes a great bench. Even on the conventional bench the pounding area was traditionally over the right side leg. If you make an essentially solid web over a few inches in that area, you will have an all solid area right down to the floor.

Even baring that, you need to figure that bench top stiffness goes up to the cube of the thickness. So some people work on a solid core door, about 1,5 inches thick. If the beam was 5,5 inches a logical size for a ply torsion box, it would be almost 50 times stiffer than the solid core door, on a form basis, if it was solid also. On those numbers below you are still only loosing about 33 percent of the stiffness in the hollow box form, and the webs affect that positively. Real calcs get a lot more complicated, and materials, and fiber orientation come into play. But a 25X advantage is hard to whittle away.

A final way to look at it is to consider your floor. It isn't even a torsion box, it consists of a piece of potentially inferior ply, of lessor thickness, half the stiffness, over joists on probable 16" centers, with no webs every 8 inches or so. Yet my floor is stiff enough to work on.

I have a torsion bench, and 2-3 solid benches. My torsion bench was made up out of a single sheet of ply, it is about 6 inches deep. It was for a Jap. style bench which is essentially a planing beam with trestles. But as "radical" as japanese benches are often portrayed to be, it is basically the euro bench with tool tray, in a demountable form.

The top is dead nuts flat, never moves, does not waste any energy, and is light enough to stick under one arm and carry upstairs. Cost thirty bucks of HD, paint grade, ply. However, a better material would be something like interior grade mershawa, and prettier also.

Where you have real problems, none of them insurmountable, would be in adding your vises, dog holes, hold downs. It is like planing a deck hardware layout on a boat. I think it would be less worth doing the more stuff you have to plan into it. Eventually it could end up solid.

The way I built mine was, though I have all the saws in the world... I went to HD that has really nice panel saws. I got them to saw the top and bottom, then I got the rest sawn into equal width web pieces. So something like 12", 12", and the rest around 4", but to maintain the yield I had to come up with a number where they would all come out the same with kerfs. Plus, you never know who is going to saw the stuff, and what mistakes they will make. So a little extra is nice.

So then when you get it home, you use the first 4 pieces for the tube, and then saw off two end caps, and then saw the rest as webs. You only need a web every foot or so. But you will have a lot of stock, and you want some doublers in the areas you will pound over. Just distribute them as you see fit, and nail the whole thing together with glue. Of course your mileage may vary.

Overall, I prefer solid wood tops, but laminated butcher type tops are probably my least favorite. I originally made the ply top because I couldn't find a solid pine beam for my trestle bench. I did eventually find one, but I have never used it, the ply one is so good I have never replaced it on this bench.