Seeking advice: Selling vehicle to buyer in another state who you do not know?....

[Erik Loza]

Hoping for some advice on this. A gentleman from NY state is interested in a car I have for sale and has proposed a funds transfer as a means of payment and would (I assume) dispatch a private towing service to pick the vehicle up. He contacted me blindly via a car forum I am on (in other words, not a regular member I know; joined to email me about it...). I have done face-to-face sales and am clear on the usual title being signed, docs being submitted to the DMV and so forth but an trying to see if there is some "angle" I haven't foreseen that would make this not what it appears. A wire transfer can't be reversed but it seems odd to me that a person would just offer to do the transfer and put his whole trust in my hands in terms of turning over the vehicle, the docs, everything. The interested party seems straightforward in our communications so far but he does not really know me, either. Can't help but feel there is something I am missing here.

Thanks in advance,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Gordon Eyre]

Sounds like he is the one who has the burden of trust. I would google his name and try and do some research on him. See if you can find a forum he is on and determine how long he has lived in the same place, etc.

[George Bokros]

I believe a wire transfer and a ACH payment can be reversed if done so in either 48 or 72 hours, not sure what the time frame is.

[ken masoumi]

If you have a gut feeling something is not right,then you should listen to it and walk away.trust your instinct.

[Ed Aumiller]

A wire transfer does not mean you will actually get the money.... it may take 2-4 weeks before you find out that there is no money...

After the car is picked up (by a legitimate local service), you will never see it again...

Any time someone makes this kind of offer.... BEWARE....

Worked for WU for 25 years... there money transfer is one of the best methods of fraud (not WU's, but customers) invented...

[Lee Schierer]

I would check with my bank and see what the rules are and then set up a new temporary account with only enough in it to open the account. Give him that account information to transfer into and then as soon as the money is there go to the bank and move it to your regular account. Make sure the cash is secure before you turn over the car. I would also thoroughly document the car with photos and insure he has copies before the transfer takes place and that he understands the condition of the car and that is being sold as is with no warranties. Take another set in the presence of the transport company so they know you know what condition the car was in when you turned it over to them.

[Brian Elfert]

Don't escrow companies exist to handle this sort of transaction? I sold a travel trailer in 2005 to a guy in the next state over, but I delivered it and got my money at delivery. I don't recall how I was paid, but it wasn't cash.

[Michael Mahan]

how much $ are we talking about ?
cash is King ! if he wants the car badly he can fly in hand over cash .
the only way I'd do a wire transfer is that the car is not released until I can actually make a cash withdraw from the account the money is wired into IE: cash in hand .
as far as the title a notarized release of liability , then submitting to the DMV the state release in person with a receipt of acceptance form the DMV . I don't know how they do in Texas but in Calli you can submit this & the CA DMV will give you a receipt that you submitted a release of liability across the counter .
I've sold cars that I made them go to their bank & cashed their own cashiers check handing me cash in hand . No cash no keys . period

[Rick Potter]

Check CL under cars for sale. They have some warnings posted about things like this. It might be good to read them.

Rick Potter

[Frank Trinkle]

It may be legit!

I sold my Hummer H3 Tactical (only 500 made) on CL while living in Georgia. I was contacted by a guy in Oklahoma who was very interested. I was suspicious because of his location, but to be fair, he provided lots of bonafides and his employment ID with the University of Oklahoma. Bank transfer went smoothly, and the guy flew to Georgia with his father to team drive the H3 back to Oklahoma. Perfect deal, and really nice folks.

Point being.... while scams are aplenty, there ARE diamonds in the rough. You just have to do effective due diligence.

Happy New Year,

Frank

[Stephen Cherry]

It may be legit!



Point being.... while scams are aplenty, there ARE diamonds in the rough. You just have to do effective due diligence.

Happy New Year,

Frank

Have you talked with him on the phone? Have you googled the phone number? Does it match with the name? Intellius match up with that? As Frank Mentioned, where does he work? Any verification of that? Where does he live? Some states have public land records online, does that match up? Maybe social networking? Online court records?

I'm more of a buyer than a seller, but even for little things, I'll try to figure out who I am dealing with using the internet before I walk into a situation.

For transactions, I like the personal check that you can take to a bank branch where you don't have an account. Wells fargo, citibank, etc., there are a number of banks with national presence. If you show up there with a check in hand to cash, the bank will know if he has the money before they give it to you the cash.

[Erik Loza]

Thanks for the advice, Gents. Yeah, I'm going to call him tomorrow and talk to him but I do have a weird feeling about it. I have this sense that all of a sudden, "my buddy will broker the deal" or something like that will spring up. That would be interesting. I will probably insist on doing a F2F transaction for cash.

Thanks again,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Dan Hintz]

I have no problem with someone else showing up to purchase... but they had better bring cash if they intend to leave with the item.

Years ago, I was trying to sell a bodykit for my S2000. I had it sitting in the garage for a couple of years with no time to have it installed, so a "local" S2000 owner wanted to buy it. He was on the S2000 forum I was on, didn't post a lot, but a few messages here and there over a long period of time, so I said okay. We agreed on cash. A couple of hours before he was supposed to stop by, I received a phone call asking if it was okay for some of his coworkers to come and pick it up, because he was tied up with something else... no problem, just tell them to bring cash. Guys show up and hand me a check. Uhm, no. "So and so said you'd accept a check." No, thanks for stopping by.

A few days later the guy was living in Barbados (I think) and stiffing people. I would have been out several thousand $s, holding a worthless check, and no body kit.

[David Weaver]

I would make him bring cash, and if he doesn't want to use cash, tell him you'll go to the post office with him and he can buy postal money orders there at $1000 each to whatever the car is worth.

Last I checked, they were something like 2 bucks per.

[Fred Perreault]

All of the above advice is really good, but one of the unanswered questions is: how much of your personal information does he want before the "deal" is consumated? Most trolls and scammers aren't interested in beating you out of the car, they just want your personal info so that they can drain your account.

[Bill Clark De]

Show me the money

[Jeff Erbele]

Hoping for some advice on this. A gentleman from NY state is interested in a car I have for sale and has proposed a funds transfer as a means of payment and would (I assume) dispatch a private towing service to pick the vehicle up. He contacted me blindly via a car forum I am on (in other words, not a regular member I know; joined to email me about it...). I have done face-to-face sales and am clear on the usual title being signed, docs being submitted to the DMV and so forth but an trying to see if there is some "angle" I haven't foreseen that would make this not what it appears. A wire transfer can't be reversed but it seems odd to me that a person would just offer to do the transfer and put his whole trust in my hands in terms of turning over the vehicle, the docs, everything. The interested party seems straightforward in our communications so far but he does not really know me, either. Can't help but feel there is something I am missing here.

Thanks in advance,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

This smells like rotten fish; like one big scam. Especially this part, "has proposed a funds transfer as a means of payment and would (I assume) dispatch a private towing service to pick the vehicle up."

Who writes and speaks that way? For one the spam type emails.
If it is what I think it may be, this guy (or person) is not in New York. He is probably in Africa, more than likely Nigeria.

A few years ago i was selling a PVC Garden Arbor I bought from Home Depot, because my wife found one she liked better. I listed it on Craigs' List at maybe 80% of new price and pointed out it was in good shape, already assembled and the buyer would not have to pay 8% sales tax.

Some guy responded that is exactly what he had been searching for, for a very long time and wanted it badly. A day or two later he said he had to leave the Denver area suddenly to New York to take care of his sister's medical needs. He wanted to send me $1,500 and I was to cash the money order keep my asking price of about $100. Of the extra $1,400 i was supposed to pay his agent, some guy that was going to stop and pick it up and ship it for him. The agent's fee was unknown, but i was supposed to pay his asking fee, and wire the excess money back to the buyer. I smelled a fish early on but thought I am going to play with this guy to see where it goes.

Why would someone want this readily available item in Home Depots across the US, so bad to go thru such gyrations?

In one email he wanted to know what shape it was in. That was my chance to play. I started describing a lwan mower as a test. I responded the blade was bent, the handles were a little rusty and it leaked a little oil but otherwise it worked fine. He or they never read the email. I sort of suspect things were done in automation.

I did a lot of online searching. His phone number was a big clue and showed up on scam sites all over the place. He was in Nigrea according to several sites. He did send me a money order via FedEx, (from yet another state) that appeared real as could be; from some bank that did not exist, someplace in Texas. I forget where the FedEx package originated from but it was probably a third party contract mailing service.

The scam was 1.) cashing it would cause issues with my bank as it was a bogus financial instrutment. 2.) I would get no money, but 3.) in trouble with my bank, and 4.) maybe the law, and 5.) if I sent any real money, I would be out that money.

I did nothing, but stopped responding to him, kept the Money Order and have a good story to tell.

Recently we attracted another such buyer. Same deal, an online ad for an expensive evening gown that is too large for my wife after she lost weight. The fish smell came up again when the buyer wants to repeat a similar transaction with a "Transfer of funds", plus she knows she wants the $350 dress, but never ask to try it on.

A thought provoking question is, would your vehicle not sell locally? Without taking risks on a big ticket item?
If I was selling a vehicle several states away, I would pay a legitimate vehicle broker their commission, remove all risk and be happy with hard proceeds (good funds) in hand and have all the paper work legal, bill of sale, title transfer, etc. etc.

What makes your vehicle so special, that someone in New York is shopping for a vehicle in Texas? Don't they sell what you have in New York, or New Jersey? Where do you shop for vehicles; 5 or 15 states away...

Your first warning sign is your gut says something is wrong with this deal. Stick to your instinct.
Also when you are the seller, you are the person that is supposed to receive payment, not send funds.
And they do not get the vehicle or the title until financial instruments have had adequate time to clear the banking chain.

[Phil Thien]

I agree with the others on the cash. Just be careful where a lot of cash is involved. Have him maybe meet you at your bank to pickup the car, so you can immediately deposit the funds.

[glenn bradley]

Cash, check or wire is not a problem but, no one gets the car until the funds have cleared and are in your hand. If that is agreeable, anything else can be worked out.

[Jim Becker]

What rings my bell here is the parallel to the very popular scam against online listings where someone will offer to buy the "item", wire money or send a bank check and have their "shipper" pick up the item. Often the money comes in at a higher amount and they claim a mistake and ask you to refund the difference. (the bank check subsequently bounces or the wire is withdrawn and you are out the money you refunded. Etc.

Even bank checks take time to clear...

[Chuck Wintle]

Hoping for some advice on this. A gentleman from NY state is interested in a car I have for sale and has proposed a funds transfer as a means of payment and would (I assume) dispatch a private towing service to pick the vehicle up. He contacted me blindly via a car forum I am on (in other words, not a regular member I know; joined to email me about it...). I have done face-to-face sales and am clear on the usual title being signed, docs being submitted to the DMV and so forth but an trying to see if there is some "angle" I haven't foreseen that would make this not what it appears. A wire transfer can't be reversed but it seems odd to me that a person would just offer to do the transfer and put his whole trust in my hands in terms of turning over the vehicle, the docs, everything. The interested party seems straightforward in our communications so far but he does not really know me, either. Can't help but feel there is something I am missing here.

Thanks in advance,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

to me it sounds like a scam because they propose to transfer funds of an unspecified amount and then you get to refund the balance, if any, as a sign of the trust they put in you. The seller then thinks "what can go wrong" at this point. as many have mentioned "cash only" is the way to go. These nigerian scammers need to be taken down in my opinion.

[Erik Loza]

Well, I am going to call the guy today so that should be interesting.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Chuck Wintle]

Well, I am going to call the guy today so that should be interesting.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA
That should be an interesting phone call!

[Jim Matthews]

I bought me latest car this way.

I sent the dealership the Bank Wire.
They confirmed receipt of payment.

They sent me the title by certified mail.

I arranged to have the car delivered.

I saved nearly $4000 over what was being asked for the same vehicle in Massachusetts.

Check with your Bank about getting paid.
If the money's real - so's the deal.

[Dan Hintz]

I bought me latest car this way.

I sent the dealership the Bank Wire.
They confirmed receipt of payment.

They sent me the title by certified mail.

I arranged to have the car delivered.

I saved nearly $4000 over what was being asked for the same vehicle in Massachusetts.

Check with your Bank about getting paid.
If the money's real - so's the deal.

The dealership has a LOT more legal muscle behind it than an individual should things go south.

[Mike Cozad]

Well, I am going to call the guy today so that should be interesting.


So how'd that go?

[Erik Loza]

So how'd that go?

I got tied up on the phone for most of the day so could not take time to call him but we emailed a bit. Sounds whacky but I think he is legit. A kid or young man, really wants the car (it's an Acura RSX built for rally/road racing). Let everyone know how it goes when I do talk to him. Thanks,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA