Solid White Oak Kitchen Table Refinishing

[Timothy McKee LB]

I have a solid white oak kitchen table that I'd like to refinish.

I tried to do it once already and wasn't quite pleased with the results. Basically, I used citristrip, scraped off the old finish, sanded it down by hand, then applied three coats of pratt and lambert 38 varnish lightly sanding between coats. The varnish is uneven and I'm just not please with the results.

I got an orbital power sander for Christmas and I now want to go ahead and redo this finishing job.

I still have a lot of the pratt and lamber 38 varnish leftover that I'd like to use and while I know that polyurethane varnish is tougher, I don't have any kids that will be banging away at the table and I'll be careful when using it.

My question is, how can I do this right from start to finish this time? I'd like to really have a quality finish and stain it as well. I don't want to stain it that dark, something light but attractive.

I guess I'm confused on the use of wood fillers and wax-free shellac sanding sealers etc. Can somebody point me in the right direction on how to properly do this step by step? Which products would be best suited for oak and pratt and lambert 38 satin varnish? Also, should I be using an oil or gel stain?

[Scott Holmes]

Actually P&L #38 is harder than poly. Tougher means more scratch resistant. Harder varnish is better on a table top. Use a chemical stripper with methylene chloride. My guess is your results before were from incomplete removal of the old finish.

[Howard Acheson]

First, avoid using "CitriStrip". It is a very slow and poor chemical paint remover. Use a stripper that contains methylene chloride. This type of stripper will do a much better job removing finish from a deep pored wood like white oak. Follow the directions on the label.

Once you have removed the prior finish, sand with 150 grit. Be careful if using a ROS sander as these tend to dig into the wood causing a non-flat surface. Proceed to 180 grit and then hand sand with 180 grit sanding with the grain. Vacuum the surface to remove all the sanding dust from the pores of the wood. Next, apply a coat of dewaxed shellac. Zinsser Sealcoat is the shellac to use. Let the shellac dry for at least 48 hours then lightly sand with 320 paper again sanding with the grain. Finally thin your P&L about 15% and brush on an even coat. If you do not have good brushing skills, thin the P&L about 30-50% with mineral spirits and wipe on at least 6-8 coats.

[Paul Saffold]

Is there another hard varnish that is comparable to P&L 38?
P&L 38 is hard to find.

[John TenEyck]

Waterlox Original is similar to P&L 38 except it is darker. Arm-R-Seal by General Finishes is lighter, although it's urethane based. It's a joy to use, however, and also very hard and durable.

John

[Timothy McKee LB]

Do you not suggest bothering with a stain? If I were to stain it which stain brand and type, oil vs gel, would you recommend? I wouldn't want to go with anything to drastic from the natural oak, but maybe just something to create a more distinctive look.

One thing I'm not certain about is how to sand over shellac and between coats of finish. Is there a trick to this? I feel like I'm removing the layer of finish I just applied.

[John TenEyck]

If you want to add color, I would use dye before stain. It will give you color without masking the grain. Transtint dyes are very nice to use. You need apply only one coat of shellac under the varnish. After several hours to dry it should sand easily with 320 grit by hand and the sand paper should not load up. Same thing for sanding between coats of finish. A gentle scuff sanding with 320 grit by hand is all that's needed. In both cases, you are just trying to knock off the nibs, nothing more. If you have been sanding because you are trying to level the finish your base preparation prior to finishing needs more work or your finish application technique. If you want to rub out the finish wait until all the finish layers, or all but the last one or two, have been applied, then let it sit for at least a week, preferably 3 or 4 weeks. The finish should be fully cured by then and you can sand out any imperfections without the sand paper loading up, and then proceed to give it any desired sheen you want.

I suggest you get some scrap white oak with grain similar to your table and practice on it. Work out which products you want to use and the entire finishing process on the scrap before you commit anything to the table.

John

[Timothy McKee LB]

What kind of transtint dye and stain would you recommend for white oak? I don't want anything that is too drastically different than the natural color. Also, do you think general finishes stains are the best? Which type of stain should be used in this situation (water, oil, or gel)?

[Steve Schoene]

I would use a powdered water solvable dye rather than TranTint. The thing about dye is that whatever the hue you can adjust the intensity by changing the concentration . I would put the dye on raw wood. Oak does not need "conditioner"' it doesn't blotch like diffuse porous woods like maple or cherry. The dye might not "take" inside some of the pores. If so, you can fix this with pigment only stain. But, to stop the stain from coloring other portions of the surface you can seal that with a coat or two of shellac. Select stain that is just a tiny bit darker than the dyed surface.

[John TenEyck]

Transtint dye is soluble in both water and alcohol, and more light fast than most other dyes, including powdered water soluble dyes, at least according to Jeff Jewitt who's company makes it. Anyway, you can get almost any color you want. Take a look at this article by Jeff Jewitt on creating Stickley finishes. http://www.homesteadfinishingproducts.com/pdf/mission_oak_rev1-2011.pdf I'm not sure who makes the "best" stains. I do like GF's gel stains, and that's what I'd use if I were creating one of those Stickley finishes. In those recipes the gel stain is applied as a glaze over a sealed surface and they are perfect for that application. On the other hand, I think Sherwin Williams BAC wiping stains are far superior when I want to use a one step stain over unsealed wood. I would not use a water based stain, in any case. I love water based topcoats, but the love affair does not extend to water based stains.

If you don't want "anything that is too drastically different than the natural color" I would not do much more than apply a weak dye then your topcoat. You said that the varnish in your first attempt was "uneven". How so? Uneven sheen, or brush marks, or ??? Anyway, based on what you said, you might consider this approach:

Strip with methylene chloride containing stripper, like KleanStrip Premium, then neutralize with their Afterwash or mineral spirits or Naptha
Sand to 320 grit
Wipe generously with distilled water and let dry overnight
Gently sand with 320 grit just enough to remove the roughness
Dye with the Transtint dye of your choice in water and let dry. Do not sand afterwards, even if it's a little rough.
Apply a coat of P&L 38 diluted at least 50% with mineral spirits, using a clean cotton cloth, microfiber cloth, or paper towel (my preferred applicator for Arm-R-Seal).
Gently sand with 320 grit to remove any roughness.
Apply another coat.
Repeat until happy.

As stated earlier, practice on scrap first.

John

[Steve Schoene]

The problem with TransTint used as a dye is that it dissolves in water, alcohol, and solvents such as acetone. That means that finishes in any of those solvents can redissolve the dye possibly causing it to smear or lift. It's not a big risk with sprayed finishes, but is more a problem with finishes applied by hand. TransTint is a great product for coloring finishes such as shellac or lacquer to use as toners. For use as dye I prefer dye that dissolves and redissolves only in water. Then you can topcoat with shellac. TransFast is one such dye. W.D. Lockwood makes a number of water soluble powdered dyes in a very wide variety of colors.

[John TenEyck]

That's true, but Transtint dyes are so easy to use, by the drop, that the benefits outweigh that one little issue. The OP could apply his mineral spirit based stain or varnish directly over the dyed piece by hand with no problems. If he wanted to apply a layer of shellac first, you just spray it on. If you don't have spray equipment, rattle can shellac works just as well. Really, it's no big deal.

John