Veneer Hammer

[Roy Lindberry]

Well my next tool to build will be a veneer hammer. So I have a couple of questions from those of you who have experience with hammer veneering.

1. If I use all wood construction, should the contact surface be end grain or long grain (or does it matter)?

2. How beneficial is it to use an inlaid metal edge?

3. If I want to use metal, will aluminum work instead of brass?

Thanks everybody for all the help you give here in this forum. It's a virtual gold mine.

[Brian Holcombe]

I don't do this type of veneering specifically, but you want long grain to long grain, like any other glue up. If you are applying over solid wood then the grain direction must be the same, if you are applying over plywood then it can be applied cross grain.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I don't do this type of veneering specifically, but you want long grain to long grain, like any other glue up. If you are applying over solid wood then the grain direction must be the same, if you are applying over plywood then it can be applied cross grain.

I think Roy's question was less about the glue-up of the veneer, but rather the "tip" of the veneer hammer - should the grain run parallel to the face of the hammer, or should it be inset akin to boxing in a molding plane, presenting the end grain as a wear surface.

[Jim Belair]

I used aluminum on mine. I think there is an advantage to a metal edge as it holds some heat, unlike UHMW PE as used by others. The counter argument could be I suppose that a metal edge draws out the heat :o

[Roy Lindberry]

I think Roy's question was less about the glue-up of the veneer, but rather the "tip" of the veneer hammer - should the grain run parallel to the face of the hammer, or should it be inset akin to boxing in a molding plane, presenting the end grain as a wear surface.

You are correct. I was asking about the construction of the hammer itself. I saw a guy on The Woodwright's Shop (I think he was from Colonial Williamsburg) using one with a head from what looks like maple, and from what I can tell in a few shots, it looks like the business end is end grain. However, it seems to me that that would be harder to shape and/or resurface over time.

I also don't know if using brass/aluminum will make much difference - this guy's was all wood. Steve Latta, on the other hand, uses brass and says that he keeps it in a pan of hot water and the brass helps it hold the heat, but he made it sound like that was only if he was doing a lot of veneering that it was necessary.

Not knowing the properties of brass and aluminum, I don't know if aluminum will have the same benefits, or even if those benefits are worth the time and expense of trying to get my hands on some brass.

[Jim Belair]

Not knowing the properties of brass and aluminum, I don't know if aluminum will have the same benefits, or even if those benefits are worth the time and expense of trying to get my hands on some brass.

Both have very high heat capacity and neither will rust which is a key attribute (as opposed to steel).

[Greg Fletcher]

Here is a link to Rob Millard's blog for March 9, 2013 (http://americanfederalperiod.com/blog/?p=228) which shows his veneer hammer. He uses a plastic edge. There are links to a couple of Youtube videos showing his veneering techniques.

[Brian Holcombe]

Sorry Roy.

[Mike Henderson]

One way our ancestors used an all iron veneer hammer is that they had a pot of boiling water next to the work, and put the veneer hammer in the boiling water. The water was only high enough to cover the metal part of the hammer and a small part of the handle. They then used a rag in one hand to press the veneer hammer down, with the handle in the other hand.

Mike

[Frank Drew]

All wood, I'd have end grain as the business end; side grain might snap from too much pressure. But I'd rather have an inlay of brass or another non-staining metal as the bearing surface.

[george wilson]

For wood,use end grain on the veneer hammering surface. I recommend a 1/4" thick strip of brass,though. Make it 1" tall,inlaid into the hammer with 1/4" sticking out and rounded over.

[Roy Lindberry]

Thank you everybody for your replies. Rather than cluttering up the forum with another thread, I figured I could ask my next couple of questions here. Now that I'm ready to start experimenting with hammer veneering, I have a couple of questions regarding hot hide glue:

1. How long can you store the glue in its jellied form? I assume it would need to be in the refrigerator...

2. One the glue is cooked and you use it, do you lose what is left over, or can it be reheated/reused? If so, how many times?

[george wilson]

I put mine in the fridge,in a lidded bottle. It usually lasts about 4 days before it starts to putrefy. I just take the bottle out,and place it in water in the glue pot,and let it warm up. That way,I don't get my glue pot all messy to clean up. I don't know how many times it can be reheated as I don't make a lot at one time,so it gets used up soon. I suppose it can be re heated until it rots. Some might have different views on this.

[Roy Lindberry]

I put mine in the fridge,in a lidded bottle. It usually lasts about 4 days before it starts to putrefy. I just take the bottle out,and place it in water in the glue pot,and let it warm up. That way,I don't get my glue pot all messy to clean up. I don't know how many times it can be reheated as I don't make a lot at one time,so it gets used up soon. I suppose it can be re heated until it rots. Some might have different views on this.

Thanks George,

I always appreciate your input.

[Tony Joyce]

You might find this blog post by Don Williams helpful.

http://donsbarn.com/my-favorite-set-up-for-using-hot-hide-glue/

Tony

[Frank Drew]

Thank you everybody for your replies. Rather than cluttering up the forum with another thread, I figured I could ask my next couple of questions here. Now that I'm ready to start experimenting with hammer veneering, I have a couple of questions regarding hot hide glue:

1. How long can you store the glue in its jellied form? I assume it would need to be in the refrigerator...

2. One the glue is cooked and you use it, do you lose what is left over, or can it be reheated/reused? If so, how many times?

Roy, in the shop where I apprenticed we kept the glue pot going for a very long time, adding water as it got too thick from cooking down, more glue pellets as needed, unplugging it at the end of the workday and plugging it in first thing every morning. Every now and then, when it started to get a bit stinky, we'd clean it out and start fresh , but not anything like weekly as far as I remember, and the glue never seemed to lose its effectiveness; with several users and the frequent additions of glue and water it really wasn't the same glue in the pot for weeks and weeks.

[george wilson]

That process will obviously work if you are using a lot of glue every day. Trouble is,I am not. guitars and violins use hardly any glue anyway. So,I make it small and cool it overnight.

[Frank Drew]

George, I agree, and its not being ready all the time is the main reason I decided not to use hot glue exclusively when I set up my own shop; that, plus my shop was hard to keep warm during the winter.

[Roy Lindberry]

You all have given me some great information, and I've now made a couple of attempts at hammer veneering (there is surprisingly little education available on the web that I can find). And this might not come as a shock, but I'm having difficulties.

Things are sticking, but I'm having particular problems with the edges laying down. As far as I can tell, the veneers are flat and not thicker in the middle (they are about 1/16" thick). I'm coating both sides of the veneer and working as quickly as I can. What seems (in my uneducated opinion) to be happening is that the glue is gelling way too fast. The glue I'm using is 192 gram strength. I've put my hammer on the glue pot in order to keep the metal heated. My shop is only minimally heated with an electric heater on one end. I don't know what the temperature actually gets up to in there. But I've watched a few videos on hammer veneering (two on the Woodwright's Shop, and one with Patrick Edwards on woodtreks), and I don't have near the time before gelling that these guys have. I have been heating the glue in a glass jar in a water bath in the pot per George's suggestion.

So, would I benefit from heating the glue directly in the pot? Is there a good way to cover the glue pot to help it get to a higher temperature (it is automatically controlled, there is not a variable temp control on it)? Should I place my boards by the heater for a while to warm them up?

Are there any other suggestions you can think of? I really don't want to have to wait until summer to do actual veneer work. On the bright side, this is not only giving me practice veneering, but sawing my own veneers as well.

[Jeff Ranck]

heat gun to heat the wood first so the glue doesn't cool so fast?