Resaw options

[Tony Wilkins]

I've spent a bit of time looking at the resaw threads for the last couple of years and there doesn't seem to be one thread where all the options are analyzed and compared. Here's what I've found so far (and I don't claim this to be an exhaustive list):

1) Kerf saw/Frame saw as presented in Fidgen's newest book
2) European style rip bow saw (e.g. ECE)
3) Ryoba/kataba
4) Western rip saw (which 'success' in this arena seems to drive the search for anything else)
5) band saw (not Neanderthal but ends up being mentioned for some reason :roll eyes: )
6) forget about it (where the previous threads seem to end up)

So what do you use to resaw? I seem to be caught in the current leading inexorably toward band saw but don't want to wash up there.

Thanks,
Tony

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

A lot of it depends on what you want to resaw, and the answers are going to be different depending on what you want to do - it's not ideal, but I've had decent success with a seven-point, 26 or 28 inch handsaw for things like drawer sides, and can struggle along with stuff a little bigger, so I haven't worked for anything more just yet. I wouldn't take that approach for something 10 inches wide, though. I get the feeling the "kerfing plane" like Fidgen mentions (and a poster here made their own version separately) could help a lot even with a handsaw.

After seeing the large frame saw stuff at Logan Cabinet Shop, Renaissance Woodworker, and Fidgen's newest book, I'm thinking that and a kerfing plane are future projects for me. The fact that the Renaissance Woodworker blog has made some commercial hardware available makes it a little easier if a little more expensive to try this.

I'm interested though, because Adam Cherubini of the Arts and Mysteries column/blog at Pop. Woodworking has posted less than favorable reviews of the same tool others have praised.

I was particularly impressed with the results shown in the vintage Williamsburg video with George and his apprentices making the harpsichord.

I'm wondering about these large framesaws, as far as what tooth count is best - Tom Fidgen went for a higher TPI than Bob at Logan Cabinet shop or Shannon at the Renaissance Woodworker, which I'd be more comfortable with. The length is another question I have too - larger seems better, but I can probably only convince my wife to help on the other side so much. (I have a pretty good wife considering she's offered to help at all! - she's a keeper!)

Tom's "kerfing plane" seems useful even outside of resawing, and with some work might be useable for dadoes and sliding dovetails as well, and seems worth making to me - the metal bits are the biggest cost outlay, and could be repurposed.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Actually, I think you should build a giant treadle-powered reciprocating saw - I'm imagining something like a huge scrollsaw powered by foot power - I'm thinking like the old gang saws. I just want to see someone make something that crazy.

[Tony Wilkins]

No huge foot powered anything here Joshua lol. Resawing I'm think of is mostly 1/2" stock our of larger for drawer-sides; just think planing 3/4" or 4/4 stock down is too wasteful (and exhausting depending on the size).

[David Weaver]

Bandsaw with anything of size. Western handsaw if not large.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

No huge foot powered anything here Joshua lol. Resawing I'm think of is mostly 1/2" stock our of larger for drawer-sides; just think planing 3/4" or 4/4 stock down is too wasteful (and exhausting depending on the size).

The issue with size is less the thickness than the width of the stock.

Unless you're doing huge drawer sides, or really hard woods, I've gotten along fine with a normal rip saw for drawer sides, if we're talking something not more than maybe 6". 4" inches or so isn't bad at all. If you roughly crosscut first, it's not too bad at all; the crosscut lets you work all four corners pretty easily and have the kerfs meet to help guide you along.

That said, I wouldn't want to do a million drawers like this, and wouldn't want to do a lot of large drawers for like a chest of drawers or something, but it's not bad for a few, or smaller things like desk drawers or what have you. I'm not saying it's ideal, but it's workable. Just make sure you sharpen your saw first, and frequently.

[Chris Griggs]

Rsawing by hand sucks. Like others have said, a couple not too wide drawers sides isn't too bad, but in general, it sucks. If you have the money and space for a bandsaw get one, learn to to tune and use it, and spend your time enjoying the much more fun aspects of handwork.

[Judson Green]

Nice little 14" band saw doesn't take up too much room. Most can plug into a regular 15 amp 115-120 volt outlet, up to about 1.5 ponys I think. I use a western saw (though not well) for smaller resawing.

[Mark AJ Allen]

1. I start with kerfing with a cheapy $100 TS or my own prototype kerfplane
2. I made a framesaw with a bow saw blade. Very aggressive, ugly cut but will stay in with the kerf.

I still have to clean up the faces and I can't do anything thinner than 1/4". I'm looking to improve my setup for resawing.

[Shawn Pixley]

I have resawn boards by hand to see if I could do it. I could. Now I do it on a bandsaw. I know I'll rot in neander hell for admitting this in public.

[Jim Koepke]

I have resawn boards by hand to see if I could do it. I could. Now I do it on a bandsaw. I know I'll rot in neander hell for admitting this in public.

For me it depends on what is being sawn. For ripping a 1X6 of a few feet into two .5X6s the band saw gets the job. When it comes to taking a piece of 4/4 of 6 inches and trying to turn a piece that is over a few feet into a couple of 4/4 of 3 inch width then it is easier for me to get a good cut with a hand saw.

It is difficult for me to feed a long piece like that through my bandsaw without a helping hand. Even with help it is easier to just do it by hand.

As far as neanderness goes, they would have used bandsaws if they had 'em.

jtk

[Jim Matthews]

I have resawn boards by hand to see if I could do it. I could. Now I do it on a bandsaw. I know I'll rot in neander hell for admitting this in public.

Those of us with the nerve to try it once, and the good sense to realize it's a thankless chore - do the same.
"There are two types of people in the World:
people who say they pee in the showers,
and filthy liars." - Paraphrase Louis CK

[Warren Mickley]

I used a hand saw (rip saw), until I made a veneer saw in 1980. My veneer saw is roughly modelled after Roubo plate 278. American veneer saws are often narrower between rails and have turned handles outside the rails so they have less capacity, more for resawing boards and planks than logs as in Roubo. It takes skill and touch to use a saw like this. When you are learning you want to leave yourself plenty of leeway for wandering inside the cut.

I tried ploughing a narrow kerf around the outside about 20 years ago. I found that with wide boards the kerf is not enough to keep the saw on track- if it really wants to wander it will just go outside the plough kerf. I also tried sawing diagonally down one side then the other, but did not find that helpful.

If you already have a good feel for using a ripsaw, resawing is not too hard. You have to be able to feel just what the saw is doing.

[Bruce Haugen]

If you would ask a large number of dedicated hand tool users (and I guess you are), you'd likely find that the most used power tools they have is a bandsaw. I know that's true on the Oldtools list.

[Bill Rhodus]

Depends on what you want to focus on. If resawing is just a component of your woodworking stick with a band saw or western handsaw. If you want to slide down the slope of hand resawing check out the frame saw blades from Blackburn Tool. I have a 4"x48" blade of his that works well and is inexpensive. I read Adam Cherubini's' articles on the frame saw but disagree on his conclusions. I spent many years in the sawmill industry and have applied a variety of sawing techniques; the similar tooth geometry, kerf, side clearance, plate thickness, etc will cause the frame and western saw to mimic one another. Many of the frame saws I see have a narrow blade and this reduces the directions limiting of a wide blade. The frame saw also induces a great deal of tension to the blade that is not present in a handsaw; flip side is a large frame that I have found works better with 2 people that know what they are doing. In my every day woodworking world of sawing components as I build a piece, I most often reach for a Disston 30"x3 tpi western saw. Sorry for the rambling reply.

[lowell holmes]

You will have plenty of friends.

[Adam Maxwell]

So what do you use to resaw? I seem to be caught in the current leading inexorably toward band saw but don't want to wash up there.

I use a handsaw, usually a 4-1/2 pt 29" rip. Works fine up to 12" wide stock, but takes some time; I've resawed butternut, tulip poplar, bubinga, maple, sapele, walnut, and maybe others. I've just started working on a frame saw, after seeing Shannon Rogers' success with his (and Mike Siemsen's) and the increased speed. One of the advantages of the frame saw is that you can resaw wide stock, which you won't do on most home bandsaws. It's also good exercise, which I need anyway.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I'm only contemplating a framesaw because there's really no way I can make a bandsaw work in my living situation.

[Adam Cruea]

I use a bandsaw. Like others, I did it by hand, just to see that it can be done. It can, and it's annoying and unenjoyable for me. Since this is a hobby, I chose to use something less. . .annoying.

[Steve Voigt]

For everyone who's said "I tried resawing once, it sucked, now I use a bandsaw," I have two questions.
First, did you say the same thing about using a plane? Because I'm guessing that your first outing with a plane didn't go so well (mine sure didn't). But I'll also guess that most of you learned that planes work far better than you would've imagined back then. So why wouldn't the same thing be true of handsawing?
Second, what do you do when you have a board that exceeds your resaw capacity? Because for me, one the most liberating things about hand tools is that you aren't enslaved to the capacity of your bandsaw, or the size of your jointer/planer/whatever. I have some 14"+ mahogany boards that I need to resaw for my next project. I am not a hand tool purist, so I will cut 3" deep on both sides with my tablesaw, but then I will cut through the remaining 8" with a Disston no.7, 4 tpi, that I paid $20 for, and I will be glad that I've invested some time learning the art of resawing.
Don't get me wrong, a good bandsaw is a wonderful tool, and if you can get one, right on. But if you don't have the money, or the space, or your landlord/girlfriend/husband/wife won't let you use power tools, or you have a medical condition and can't tolerate the noise, or …or … then you absolutely can resaw by hand, unless you are trying to make a living as a cabinet maker.

[Shawn Pixley]

I see your point. But woodworking for me is meant to be enjoyable. I taught wilderness survival once. I know how to do it. But you won't catch me surviving that way without necessity. It is realy not much fun. Adventure is hardship seen at a distance.

I find flattening a slab with a plane far, far, far more enjoyable than resawing by hand. If you enjoy it, by all means do it. But include me out.

[Judson Green]

Haven't for a long time had boards (that ive wanted to resaw, I generally resaw for bookmatching) that exceeded the capacity of my band saw. And getting six shop veneers out of 4/4 is hard enough with a bandsaw. Generally use the band saw for bull tasks like that but ones that require some precision.

My shopvac is louder than the band saw.

Don't think enslavement is something I'm am (or will be) to the band saw. Its just a tool use it when it seems right.

For everyone who's said "I tried resawing once, it sucked, now I use a bandsaw," I have two questions.
First, did you say the same thing about using a plane? Steve Voigt

Sure did, but realized that sanding wasn't the better alternative. Once I learned to sharpen well, tune up a plane and how to four square a board things got better. That said if the neighbors wouldn't mind a screaming planer I'd get one.

Guess everyone here Neanderthal in their own way.

[Jim Matthews]

Adventure is hardship seen at a distance.

I'm stealing that, and will claim that I said it first.
Nobody ever remembers being cold.

Lavatory paper isn't important, until it is.

After two weeks - all the clothes smell the same.

There's no such thing as a "two man tent".

[Mark AJ Allen]

If you want to slide down the slope of hand resawing check out the frame saw blades from Blackburn Tool. I have a 4"x48" blade of his that works well and is inexpensive.

This has a good tidbit of wisdom in it for those of you interested in resawing with a frame saw ...

Get a reasonable wide blade to maintain beam strength of the blade. This will help minimize the blade deflection. Also, I prefer to have most of the mass of the saw in the blade to minimize deflection as the frame is moved, twisted, etc... so I like frame designs that are similar to the design in Mr. Figden's book (though I prefer a wider grip).

These guys are making saw plates that suit a variety of saws as well. http://www.tgiag.com/sawplate.html

[Chris Griggs]

For everyone who's said "I tried resawing once, it sucked, now I use a bandsaw," I have two questions.
First, did you say the same thing about using a plane? Because I'm guessing that your first outing with a plane didn't go so well (mine sure didn't). But I'll also guess that most of you learned that planes work far better than you would've imagined back then. So why wouldn't the same thing be true of handsawing?
Second, what do you do when you have a board that exceeds your resaw capacity? Because for me, one the most liberating things about hand tools is that you aren't enslaved to the capacity of your bandsaw, or the size of your jointer/planer/whatever. I have some 14"+ mahogany boards that I need to resaw for my next project. I am not a hand tool purist, so I will cut 3" deep on both sides with my tablesaw, but then I will cut through the remaining 8" with a Disston no.7, 4 tpi, that I paid $20 for, and I will be glad that I've invested some time learning the art of resawing.
Don't get me wrong, a good bandsaw is a wonderful tool, and if you can get one, right on. But if you don't have the money, or the space, or your landlord/girlfriend/husband/wife won't let you use power tools, or you have a medical condition and can't tolerate the noise, or …or … then you absolutely can resaw by hand, unless you are trying to make a living as a cabinet maker.

Yes, did it many more times than once. Its not hard to do well, but it takes a really long time on boards wider than a few inches and its not fun at all. Though in all fairness I don't have a big roubo frame saw. When I had to resaw boards wider than a few inches I did frequently do what you mention and first kerf out a couple inches on either side with my small portable TS. I would never tell anyone it can't be done by hand, I did it a number of time over that past few years, but if one has the money and space for a BS I don't think there is any reason to do it by hand unless one simply enjoys it. I just never enjoyed it at all, always found it boring and arduous, and having just gotten my first bandsaw after several years of not having the space or money for one I can't imagine going back to resawing by hand. Too me it SUCKS. I hate it...that's just me though. Warren does it, and he's as pro as pro can be which I think says a lot, but its sure not something I want to go back to doing by hand. Though I can't disagree with your statement about having learned how to do it w/o a BS, I just would rather not given the option to use a BS.

As far as wide boards go, I just haven't encountered a need to resaw anything wider than 10" and my little 1hp 14" BS does that just fine.

[Adam Cruea]

For everyone who's said "I tried resawing once, it sucked, now I use a bandsaw," I have two questions.
First, did you say the same thing about using a plane? Because I'm guessing that your first outing with a plane didn't go so well (mine sure didn't). But I'll also guess that most of you learned that planes work far better than you would've imagined back then. So why wouldn't the same thing be true of handsawing?
Second, what do you do when you have a board that exceeds your resaw capacity? Because for me, one the most liberating things about hand tools is that you aren't enslaved to the capacity of your bandsaw, or the size of your jointer/planer/whatever. I have some 14"+ mahogany boards that I need to resaw for my next project. I am not a hand tool purist, so I will cut 3" deep on both sides with my tablesaw, but then I will cut through the remaining 8" with a Disston no.7, 4 tpi, that I paid $20 for, and I will be glad that I've invested some time learning the art of resawing.
Don't get me wrong, a good bandsaw is a wonderful tool, and if you can get one, right on. But if you don't have the money, or the space, or your landlord/girlfriend/husband/wife won't let you use power tools, or you have a medical condition and can't tolerate the noise, or …or … then you absolutely can resaw by hand, unless you are trying to make a living as a cabinet maker.

I find planing to be enjoyable. You'd have to ask my dad, but no, my first outing with a plane wasn't bad at all. Little sweaty, but not bad, and quite enjoyable.

However, take that 14" wide chunk of mahogany and switch it for a 10" wide chunk of hickory, or a 12" wide chunk of white oak. That's what I did with hand resawing.

Now, will I rip by hand? Yes, that doesn't bother me at all. Thus far, I've ripped a couple of 8/4, 6'+ hickory boards. But resaw? Naaaaaah. I got a 14" bandsaw and said if I need to resaw over 14", then I seriously need to re-think my work. Besides, I can rent a bigger one from my sawyer, I think. :D

[Steve Voigt]

I see your point. But woodworking for me is meant to be enjoyable. I taught wilderness survival once. I know how to do it. But you won't catch me surviving that way without necessity. It is really not much fun. Adventure is hardship seen at a distance.

I see your point as well, and of course each to his own. Speaking strictly for myself, I'd compare it to backpacking rather than wilderness survival. In survival training, dying is a serious risk. With backpacking, I don't really enjoy hiking up a series of endless switchbacks with a full pack, but it gets me where I'm going, it's good exercise, and I feel a sense of accomplishment when it's done.
Anyway, I didn't mean to tick anybody off. All I was trying to say is that resawing gets easier with practice, and it's a viable option if you can't use a bandsaw.

[Judson Green]

I certainly wasn't tick off. Kinda nice how woodworking is a solo-sport but we can all get together and talk shop.

[Mike Allen1010]

I'm stealing that, and will claim that I said it first.
Nobody ever remembers being cold.

Lavatory paper isn't important, until it is.

After two weeks - all the clothes smell the same.

There's no such thing as a "two man tent".

Shawn and Jim,

Hysterical - the sort of insight that only comes from someone who has experienced the "adventure" of living in the same clothes for a prolonged period, usually trying not to get shot. Some of the best advice I got as a young man was "Just because you can't smell yourself don't assume you don't stink- because you probably do".

Cheers, Mike

[Chuck Nickerson]

I have a blended shop with a nice 20" bandsaw which is my usual resawing tool.
About one out of every five projects is done full neander.

My 4"x48" frame saw is still unfinished, so my neander resawing is done with a 4ppi docking saw (refilled by Marv Werner).

http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr5/parkgriffith/489.jpg (http://s464.photobucket.com/user/parkgriffith/media/489.jpg.html)

[Adam Cruea]

I have a blended shop with a nice 20" bandsaw which is my usual resawing tool.
About one out of every five projects is done full neander.

My 4"x48" frame saw is still unfinished, so my neander resawing is done with a 4ppi docking saw (refilled by Marv Werner).

http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr5/parkgriffith/489.jpg (http://s464.photobucket.com/user/parkgriffith/media/489.jpg.html)


What is that? 16/4 cherry? Or some sort of conifer (redwood, cedar).

[Chuck Nickerson]

What is that? 16/4 cherry? Or some sort of conifer (redwood, cedar).

It's 16/4 redwood, which makes the project a lo more manageable. Somewhere inside the original slab (64"x28"x16/4)
is a Viking toolbox resized to hold my woodwork DVDs.

[Shawn Pixley]

I'm not at all ticked off. You do it your way and I'll do it mine.

I like the backpacker analogy. Do you light your fire with bow and stick / flint and steel or matches / lighter? I can tell you starting a fire with a bow and stick (after making the bow and blocks) will get you real sweaty. It seems very similar to resawing a wide board by hand. Tongue firmly in cheek...

[Jim Koepke]

Tongue firmly in cheek...

And torque in bandsaw.

Been resawing today and the planing was hard enough on my shoulder.

jtk

[Daniel Rode]

This weekend, I needed to make 48 1/8" x 2 1/8" x 24" pieces of quarter sawn white oak. In the past, I would have jointed a face, taken a slice with the bandsaw, then re-jointed the rough face. Lather, rinse, repeat until there are 48. Depending on the use, I might have run them through the drum sander to get an even thickness and smooth faces.

I no longer have the bandsaw or the drum sander, so that was not an even option. Even if I had the right hand saw, I don't have the skill to make those kind of cuts. Moreover, It's not a skill I want to develop. It's hard work that I would not enjoy.

As it was my only option, I made the cuts on the table saw. I can live without most of the tools I sole off, but I really miss the bandsaw. I'd forgotten how much resawing I used to do. Maybe I can find a pedal powered bandsaw on craigslist :)

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I would have sold the tablesaw and kept the bandsaw! (But I don't have either, nor a huge amount of experience with a TS, so my initial instinct could be way off)

If you've got a nice drill press, I had quite a bit of success with the "luthiers friend" sanding rig for thinner pieces like that if they were less than the height of the drum. No idea how it compares to a real drum sander, but it worked well for me. Only sold mine because I was never using it; probably end up regretting it if I ever get back to that kind of work.

If the width was a bit less, you can get really exact thicknesses by putting "runners" on the plane, done this for binding type stuff with some success.

A lot depends on what you're doing and how totally accurate the pieces need to be - but certainly once you get to forty-eight pieces, you're well into production work, and a lot of things go out the window. I bet you could do it, but whether you want to is another option!

That said, after forty eight of those, you'd be pretty handy with the saw!

All that aside, I'm just really curious the project that drove the need for all those pieces!

[Jim Koepke]

I'd forgotten how much resawing I used to do. Maybe I can find a pedal powered bandsaw on craigslist

I think the of saw you describe is sometimes called a walking beam saw. Kind of like a super sized scroll saw.

I think I will stick with my little band saw.

jtk

[Daniel Rode]

All that aside, I'm just really curious the project that drove the need for all those pieces!

I'm making a set of mission style tables out of quarter sawn white oak and I want the legs to have figure on all 4 sides (12 legs X 4 sides). So I'm using a red oak center and then laminating it with a 1/8" veneer. It will eventually be planed down to 1/16 and the joint will disappear along the edge of a 1/16" chamfer. Each leg uses 4 sequential cuts from the same board for a perfect match. The finished legs will be 2" x 2" x 24"


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