Tool Storage before 18th c.

[Eric Erb]

So we've all seen those 18/19th c toolchests (ala Schwarz) and i was wondering, how old is that shape/style? What were people using before that?

[Tony Wilkins]

I'm not sure how old the form is but something similar back to 700ce/ad. Weber is involved in reproducing a Viking chest discoved well preserved in Britain.

[george wilson]

I recall years ago seeing a repro of a Viking tool chest somewhere,but can't remember where. Sort of like a low sea chest,IIRC. May have had slanted inwards sides on it ala sea chest.

[Chris Vandiver]

Here you go;
http://www.angelfire.com/wy/svenskildbiter/Viking/vikchest.html

[george wilson]

That's it. I wonder why they bothered to hollow out the lid? Why the outside of the lid is convex to begin with ? Seems a little un necessary,especially with the tools of their time. I'd think a flat top would have been handier to sit on,but maybe it was to let rain run off better?

Probably things done for reasons we do not yet understand,like many old processes,so I wouldn't dismiss them out of hand. Maybe the lid was round for rain,hollowed out for lightness. They had to carry everything around. I see the reproducer couldn't resist the urge to neaten up the hollowing out job. He should have made it more like the original if he was making a repro at all.

[James Conrad]

Roy Underhill did a show as well.
http://video.unctv.org/video/2365005040/

[Eric Erb]

wow great stuff, thanks Chris and James. George, I agree. it might not make sense to a modern person, but that doesn't mean they didn't have a good reason...

[Greg Wease]

One reason is that it's unlikely another chest will be stacked on top of one with a rounded top so you'll always have access.

[Kees Heiden]

I can't remember real tool storage in old paintings, but often you see some stuff hanging on the walls.

[Kees Heiden]

Or they would just throw them around on the floor:

https://lh6.ggpht.com/mWg1RaBKPlGfCpEjOfq5-fM1pkIiUWXCiYirbdOXYdhEY2DHKyq3Q_n58dUAXkeJvxU4J2P qS8qR7L0CtTSCXNgCeQ=s0

[george wilson]

Since the old chest has a big lock on it,we can assume the owner did want to limit access to his tool box,just like today.

[Chris Vandiver]

I can't remember real tool storage in old paintings, but often you see some stuff hanging on the walls.

Those Viking boats were built outside next to the water. Probably not too many places to hang your tools.

[Kees Heiden]

Here's a picture from 1602. And all his stuff is on the wall. That's how you usually see it on old paintings.
http://www.nuernberger-hausbuecher.de/75-Amb-2-279-69-v/data

Pictures of carpenters outside tend to have the tools scattered around on the floor, like in this one.
http://www.nuernberger-hausbuecher.de/75-Amb-2-279-52-r

One picture from a carpernter (Josef) on the road. He seems to be wearing a wicker basket on his back.
http://www.franshalsmuseum.nl/nl/collectie/zoeken-de-collectie/tablet-of-the-carpenters-guild-with-the-flight-into-egypt-432/

I guess they used what they had and didn't cost too much.

[Chris Vandiver]

Here is a link of interest. Scrool down to the Furniture section and then down to chests. There you'll see another tool chest, the Oseberg. I think it's from 1200AD.

http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/wood.shtml#Tools

[Patrick Bernardo]

Just a guess, but I'd think that the inside of the top would double as a tool tray if it were hollow like that. So if you pulled out a tool that was wrapped, and wanted to put it down, but not on the ground, you could do so without it rolling away. Probably pretty useful on a boat that was pitching and whatnot too. I'm assuming that the lid was hinged to remain open at about 180 degrees (similar to the reproduction), or at least it could be propped up in that position.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I wonder how much of the "tools on the ground" and to a lesser degree "tools on the wall" is artistic license, a way to get all those things into the picture.

[george wilson]

English carpenters in the 18th. C. often carried their tools around in baskets.

[maximillian arango]

I think the reasoning for Vikings not having their tools on their wall was that they were a more nomadic group. I know they had a permanent home base but they seemed to be always on the move to England( as far back as when it was in Roman control) and would go as south as the Gulls(France) and even seemed to have some presents here in the new world. Compare that to later centuries/ different civilizations(painting) with the tools were on the wall those people were settled in their locations as early as 4000 bce with the Sumerians(no paintings to prove my assumption).

Then again what do I know I think pharaohs were aliens



I like the idea of the lid being used to keep tools from rolling away, I need something like that to keep sockets from rolling down hill in the middle of working on my car.

[Sam Stephens]

So we've all seen those 18/19th c toolchests (ala Schwarz) and i was wondering, how old is that shape/style? What were people using before that?

i just figured it was a 21c fad? Unless of course you're moving around to different jobsites or are a nomadic plunderer.

[george wilson]

You assume the lid opened to a horizontal position and stayed that way. If it didn't,it was not useful as a tool tray,but the idea that it lightened the lid works in any position.

I totally agree that artistic license was used in where ever tools might be seen in old prints. Look at "melancholia" by Durer. Tools and implements all over the place. Meant to show that man was capable of doing anything,but could still become depressed. The wings on the figure were a FEW years ahead of their time.:)

[steven c newman]

made quite a few Blanket Chest over the years, might try to adapt one to hold a few toys...er, tools? Maybe add a few drawers to the bottom? Had a Red Aromatic Cedar one that mght serve as a starting point, design-wise277913277914277915Top "drawer" is a fake. Could just add another level of drawers to this? Wood May not have to be Cedar, don't think moths add cast iron anyway...

Might try this idea out, down in the design forum.....

[Winton Applegate]

Here is a photo of one pre 18th century woodworker's tool storage system
http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/noydb1/Fallen-Arch-3_zps74a794bf.jpg (http://s801.photobucket.com/user/noydb1/media/Fallen-Arch-3_zps74a794bf.jpg.html)

A high level woodworker of his time no doubt judging by the fact that all the tools appear to be a matched set and also designed to nestle while in storage so as to take up less space in the tool storage area.

I am sure you will agree when I say "Very Neander".

[Kees Heiden]

I wonder how much of the "tools on the ground" and to a lesser degree "tools on the wall" is artistic license, a way to get all those things into the picture.

Absolutely! Especially the ones on the ground, that can't have been proper tool storage. But I can see how they would hang stuff on the walls, as that is what I do too. It is cheap, works very well and doesn't take up floor space. And because they were working in their own home, theft wouldn't be much of a problem.

[Zach Dillinger]

i just figured it was a 21c fad? Unless of course you're moving around to different jobsites or are a nomadic plunderer.

I hope you are joking :)

[Karl Andersson]

The St. Thomas guild blog (medieval re-enactors from the Netherlands) has very good articles on old tools and using them - this link has their toolchest and links to the "viking" one from Mastermyr (1100 a.d.), and the Mary rose and Vasa shipwrecks that included tools from the 16th and 17th century. check out the articles under the label "tools" on the right also - you'll find a lot of medieval depictions of shops, sitework, and some chests: http://thomasguild.blogspot.com/2011/01/medieval-woodworkers-toolbox.html

it's hard to tell when the shelves and racks that you see in the current models were added in the tool chest evolution - I think the earliest chests were probably just a "box of tools' instead of purpose-built tool chests. The old illustrations don't usually show the inside of the chests, except for the guild chests, and they may have just been for show. Certainly open wall racks and jobsite baskets are as common in the illustrations as chests - the choice probably boiled down to how mobile you had to be and whether there were folks around who would steal your tools.

Incidentally, the Mastermyr/ viking/ woodworker connection is a little misleading; this may have just been a box full of tools and things people were trying to keep safe, not a toolbox. A majority of the items in the box are blacksmith tools and scrap metal, including apparently broken/ worn out tools kept for scrap. Some of the woodworking tools appear to have been useable at the time, but they are a pretty simple collection (saws, files, chisels, hammers). The box dates from the end of the viking era and was found in Sweden, so it apparently wasn't being taken on a viking adventure -it was also found in an area that was a swamp when it was placed, so probably either the owners were moving it and got ambushed or they hid it in the swamp so nobody could find it. Hoarding was a common habit among the scandinavians, maybe this guy just wanted iron instead of gold. Sorry, I like norse history and tools....

Karl

[Kees Heiden]

Thanks a lot for the link Karl! I'll have to pay them a visit some day.

[Eric Erb]

it really does seem that there weren't purpose-built tool chests from what we have seen here so far. but i find it difficult to believe that they would just throw their edged tools together in a box or basket. that's a good way to ruin your edges.