Yet another leg vise options question

[Marko Milisavljevic]

I think I'd like Benchcrafted wheel with crisscross, but I'm not spending almost $500 on that, with so many other tools on my wish list. I happen to already have their roller kit which I bought some time ago. I'm setting my budget to under $200. My options and my cost after tax/shipping/exchange are:

- rollers with LV screw $40
- crisscross with LV screw $200 (I can't drill a straight 9" hole through the chop so I'd have to go with the "retro")
- rollers with Lake Erie wood screw $175

How many are so disappointed with rollers and LV screw that you would do it differently now, considering substantial price increase for any other leg vise option? If you had to upgrade from rollers or LV screw, would it be rollers or screw?

[Steve Voigt]

We've been down this road before. I and many others like the rollers (i made my own). Other people don't. To each his own.
It seems to me like you've decided rollers suck without even trying them. Why not actually try them and find out? You are going to have to buy the LV screw anyway, so it will cost you literally nothing to find out whether the rollers work for you. If you don't like them, you can always retrofit the cross later.

[Marko Milisavljevic]

Thanks for your reply, Steve. I think you read more than I wrote when you concluded I decided that rollers suck. Trying different options, even for little monetary cost, can still take a good bit of effort, hence the reason to want to discuss online and ask for opinions. I already have my newbie woodworker's plate overflowing with trying to juggle together all the details of building this bench. Is it safe to mark you down for being a proponent of rollers and LV screw, of the 3 options I listed?

[Sam Stephens]

not sure what advantage the crisscross design has other than being in the way. i've always thought this was a bit contrived. I don't think you'd be disappointed with either of the roller options. FWIW, I just have the LV screw, no rollers, and don't have any problems w/ vise movement, clamping strength, etc.

[Steve Voigt]

Is it safe to mark you down for being a proponent of rollers and LV screw, of the 3 options I listed?
Absolutely.

[Curt Putnam]

You can also throw the Chain Leg Vice kit option into the mix. If you use the LV screw, and a roller (only 1 required) and the kit you can still come in under $200. I've got the Lake Erie screw and the Chain kit for my bench build (launch date now 1 year behind schedule.) That gives a parallel action chop at minimum cost.

[Paul Saffold]

I have the LV screw and rollers (my copy of BC). I am very happy with the combination. Like you, I was on a tight budget. It works fine. Unless you are switching back and forth to different thicknesses of wood, the pin doesn't get moved much. Would the crisscross be nice and convenient? Yes, of course. Is it nice to have that money to spend on tools and lumber? Of course.
To answer your question: yes, I am happy with what I have and I would do the same thing again.
Paul

[Jim Ritter]

Thanks for the plug Curt. It is so hard not to speak up, don't want any infractions.
Jim

[Prashun Patel]

I have the lv screw. It is fine. In practice, i dont move the jaw more that 1 to 2 inches most of the time, so the speed of the coarser wood screw is not missed by me. Also, the leverage of most any leg vise makes it exteremely powerful regardless of your screw choice.

i have been meaning to add a roller, but havent needed one yet. Again, when the jaw is mostly contracted and you are clamping material less than 2 inches, the jaw doesnt cantilever so much that it stresses the screw.

I also dont have a pin or criss cross or chain to resist racking. I just use shims. It works very well for me.

[Kurt Cady]

I have the LV screw and the crisscross. But I didn't have the roller set already. I bought the crisscross for $100 because the other option was the rollers for $50. Seemed like a no brainier upgrade for minimal cost. I Like the crisscross.

[Tony Shea]

I personally love my Lake Erie wood screw and I have rollers that I made out of skateboard wheels. The rollers on my bench work extremely well but I did buy a decent set of wheel bearings to stick inside the skateboard wheels. I see no reason to not make your own rollers from skateboard wheels but since you already have them I will not beat that issue.

I love everything about my leg vise but the pin does become a nuisance if working with lots of different thickness boards/pieces. And my fix to this will eventually be the Chain Leg Vise kit retrofitted to my setup. If I was starting a new build I still would opt for this setup. I think the Crisscross is a decent idea but I really wouldn't want all that hardware down there eliminating all that space for odd shaped objects to be clamped up. I have zero experience with the Chain Leg Vise but I have no doubt this thing works as advertised once properly setup. And it seems like a very clean and minimal instal. One day I will have the extra money to buy this unit and really sing it's praises.

[Jim Ritter]

Tony, I tried to send you a PM and your box is full can you contact me please?
Jim

[Christopher Charles]

I have a German viee screw from woodcraft, rollers and a repurposed hand wheel from a salvage yard (cost: $70, $35, and $45 respectively). Great setup though am interseted in adding a chain at some point. The German screw is very smooth.

Good luck, dont think you can go wrong.

C

[Hilton Ralphs]

Thanks for the plug Curt. It is so hard not to speak up, don't want any infractions.
Jim

As long as suppliers are not trashing each other and punting 'specials', then I don't see any thing wrong with pointing out the advantages of any particular product. Yes technically it's a plug but I'd rather someone like Jim point out whether or not his product will work in a given situation.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I have the Lake Erie screw and love it. I need to monkey with my rollers - something's changed since I put everything in, and I inadvertently tapered my parallel guide when fettling something or other, so it doesn't engage the rollers perfectly the whole way through - things need a little "lift" for the smoothest action in the last bit of travel. That said, the rollers work like a dream for most of the travel I use on the vise, (I rarely have the thing open that wide!) so I'm not in a big hurry to "fix" it.

When I first installed it, and it was fun swinging the handle around as fast as I could and watching it slide through a few rotations on it's own. Not quite as amazing as the bench crafted, what with the giant handle, and a bit more friction in it's use, but neat none-the-less. After a few times of that, though, I got back to work.

That said, now I don't even think about it. I think that's the most important part for me. I spent way too much time fussing over this vise or that vise, or how to make things "the best" - at the end of the day, it just needs to be out of your way and make your work possible. For me, the leg vise rarely gets opened more than the width of a board, and even when it does, I don't find myself adjusting it much in rapid succession - I rarely go from edge-planing a piece of three quarter stock to smoothing the sides of a drawer and back again over and over.

I think the great thing about a leg vise compared to other vises, is that it's easy "upgradeable" if you plan ahead a little bit. With say, a metal end vise, if you decide that darn, maybe you *should* have gotten the quick release, you don't have many options short of buying a new, expensive vise. With a leg vise, choose a screw that fits your budget, install, and go at it. If you decide you want something a little smoother, with some work, you can install a lot of the guides and rollers and what have you after the fact.

[Jim Matthews]

I have the LV German vise screw set up with a lower guide.

I installed a ramp, much like the one shown in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=338U49EtWso).
Instead of using a pin, or wedging system as demonstrated,
I use a series of plywood spacers, an idea borrowed from Paul Miller's wedge designed vises.

The advantage of the rollers is only maintained if the rollers are spring loaded.
My pin board expanded so much in Summer that the vise was stuck.

I like the ramp design shown in the video, as it keeps the chop slightly canted.
I used a strip of HDPE on the ramp, so no wheels are needed.

There's a tendency to make these things capable of clamping large boards, more than 4" wide.

I optimized mine to handle things under 2" thick - the size of things I normally handle.

The real advantage of these is in manipulating thin stock, which I more often use.

[Steve Voigt]

The advantage of the rollers is only maintained if the rollers are spring loaded.
My pin board expanded so much in Summer that the vise was stuck.


Jim, that's a pretty broad assertion. I understand that you had a bad experience, but I don't think that experience is typical. The parallel guide is only 3 or 4 inches wide. With quartersawn stock in a relatively stable environment, problems with movement should be negligible. And if you live where the changes in humidity are extreme, the problem can be circumvented entirely by using Baltic birch or similar ply for the guide.

[Jim Matthews]

I hardly see how a description of mechanics is a broad assertion.

Like many hack amateurs, I have exactly zero tolerance for
fiddly tools that detract from my shop time.

There's a reason that Benchcrafted migrated to the St. Peter's cross design - it always works.

[Paul Saffold]

Jim,
I've had my bench about 20 months. After the initial setup for my rollers, I have not had to adjust them. They are not spring loaded. I have not had any problems with them binding or becoming loose. Using quarter sawn wood may have helped.
Paul

[Tim Null]

I have three benches with multiple vises.
Nicholson with a Veritas Twin Screw as an end vise and a traditional metal front vise.
Roubo with a Lake Erie wood screw leg vise with Benchcrafted rollers and a metal vise on the end.
Carvers bench with a Veritas inset vise and a moxon with homemade wood screws attached to on end of the bench.

All three work great. They each have pros and cons though. Since the question is leg vise, the Lake Erie screw works perfectly. It takes a bit of fussing to get the rollers to work properly, but you need a pair. That way they balance the guide and let the vise move smoothly.

But what is it you really want from a vise? To hold your work securely with as little fuss as possible. In my leg vise, I open it, set the pin (most times I do not need to readjust it), set the piece in and twist the handle. That's it. Leather liners on the jaws and there is no slippage. Period. Every vise has its' advantages and weaknesses. My leg vise with the Lake Erie screw and Benchcrafted rollers is a great vise with few disadvantages in my opinion. Absent spending the big bucks for the criss cross, this version gives 90% of the performance for a lot less money.

I am able to use each of my vises as I need, so I don't really have to compromise. But I find myself gravitating to the leg vise more often than not. Go, build the vise and use it in good health!

[Marko Milisavljevic]

Thanks to everyone for giving me some food for thought. I ordered Lake Erie Toolworks leg vise screw/nut and I'll use the rollers I have.