DIY (Lasersaur) versus Chinese (Rabbit)?

[Weston Porter]

On a budget of <10k, I don't have many options. I'm leaning toward a Rabbit due to the good things I've read about Ray of Rabbit Laser USA but it seems so risky. I've been working with a Chinese import at a local makerspace for a while and it's proven highly unreliable. The only alternative I've found is building one myself using the Lasersaur open source project, the benefit there is that the parts are better and I'd have a better understanding of how repair the machine having constructed it myself but I'd be on my own.

Any thoughts on those two paths? I'd love to have an Epilog but the Zing quality looks pretty ****** and that's about all I could afford.

[Dan Hintz]

FYI... I'd suggest editing your post and remove the foul language before a mod takes care of it for you (and gives you the stinkeye in the process).

The biggest failure point in Chinese lasers that very few can handle would be the electronics. If the laser dinosaur project uses US-based boards that can be had for a reasonable price in a reasonable period of time should something go wrong, that might be your best bet. Every machine can have mechanical failures, but those are more easily resolved with forum pics, some advice, and a few simple tools (especially if you built it yourself). That said, the Chinese system, particularly if you purchase from a US-based supplier like Ray, will work (nearly) right out of the box.

[Weston Porter]

I don't really consider that foul language but I suppose I've worked in a few too many rowdy woodshops over the years. Thanks for the tip. I can say tip right? :D

Anywho, this is the bill of materials (http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur/bom-suppliers-usd) for the Lasersaur. You really do assemble everything from scratch, unless you want shortcuts and buy their boards, assembled in house. That's how they make money.

Another concern I have with the imports (and this might just be semantics) is that they are always labeled as laser engravers. I have no interest in engraving at this point, I simply need to cut 1/8 baltic birch and acrylic sheets. The "engravers" can cut just as well right, I just need higher wattage?

[David Somers]

Weston,

I am in your position, unwilling to spend the $$ for an Epi or a ULS given what I want to do. I have also pretty much decided to go with Rabbit through Ray. For what it is worth, folks seem to have nothing but praise for him, and he seems to stock anything you might need for the machine. I was talking to his wife the other day and she said that now they are actually sending someone out to assemble and install and train everyone on even their smallest machines. They found it solves so many problems in the long run. That is a pretty nice service. When I called her Ray was up in my neck of the woods setting up a machine in Auburn, WA. My own thinking is you are pretty safe working with them based on what I have seen and what I hear from everyone else. His BBB references are clean as well for what that is worth. I am afraid I have no experience at all with the Lasersaur project to compare against. And please keep in mind I do not yet own a Rabbit. But I have been impressed with all I have seen of these folks.

Good luck!!

Dave

[Weston Porter]

I have also pretty much decided to go with Rabbit through Ray. For what it is worth, folks seem to have nothing but praise for him, and he seems to stock anything you might need for the machine.

Thanks David. I haven't had the pleasure of talking to him yet myself but that's definitely the praise I've been hearing across the different forums I've searched. I don't want to call him up an ask such a personal question but you don't think he's retiring any time soon do you?

[David Somers]

Weston,

After posting I saw your second post about being more interested in cutting than engraving. These machines are like all the CO2 lasers, capable of both cutting and engraving. The power will determine the thickness you can reasonably cut and at what speed. As far as I know, any of the Rabbit machines will easily cut the baltic birch you mentioned.

Keep in mind that over time any laser tubes output does drop, reducing its cutting ability. Also, dirt on the lens, and the deterioration of the lens due to dust and heat and fumes will affect it as well. That is fixable though with cleaning and finally a replacement lens, which is not that expensive. Ray can confirm the cutting thickness he would recommend for his various models, but I don't believe you are pushing the capacity of any of his machines.

Dave

[David Somers]

Weston,

I think he will be around for quite a while. I am guessing, but I think he might be in his 30's? Total speculation on my part. His wife is very knowledgeable on their machines as well and may be who you reach at first. Her name is Carole. She does all the admin work for the business. Be patient. She is very helpful but is also dealing with a 14mo old baby as well. Don't hesitate to call them.

And be sure to let us know what you find about the lasersaur project if you decide to go that route. Sounds like fun if you are into that level of assembly, and a good experience to boot!

Dave

[matthew knott]

Dans right, this is pretty much the strictest place on the internet for what is considered 'bad language' i got told off for saying the word for a female dog begins with 'b' and also how youve edited word, been pulled up on that too, but them's the rules so fair enough. I purchased a Shenui direct from china, took about 2 hours to get it running and thus far its been reliable, granted the quality its clearly nothing like a western machine but as a tool its doing its job, very simple machines, cheap spares, and as long as your a bit mechanically-electrical minded easy to work on. Buying a rabbit means you get access to someone who how knows the machines and takes most off the risk away, that might be invaluable !!!

[Travis Wizniuk]

I was in your situation about a month ago and decided to purchase a G. Weike LG900N. I haven't received it yet (just loaded on the boat) but I know I made the right decision. All the reviews I read have been positive, the transaction was very easy and I spent way less than your 10K budget.

Some people are scared away because of the import hassle, but for me it wasn't a big deal. We import 5 - 10 containers a year from China.

Anyway.. Do the research.. G. Weike and Shenhui (SP) are well known in this forum and provide incredible value. As an example a 900 size (24"x36" table, 90W RECI tube) runs about $3700 without options..

[Dave Sheldrake]

Another concern I have with the imports (and this might just be semantics) is that they are always labeled as laser engravers.

There are legal reasons for that in many countries, for the UK and EU a laser engraver and a laser cutter are governed by different import laws. An engraver has far less stringent safety requirements to conform to than a cutter, a cutter is considered an industrial machine and has to meet EU Factory Safety regulations.


I don't want to call him up an ask such a personal question but you don't think he's retiring any time soon do you?

Ask him ;) Ray Scott is likely one of the most approachable guys I know in this industry. He's quite unique in many ways, a lot of companies have bosses or staff that are professional and decent to work with but if you communicate with them outside of the work environment they can turn out to be right muppets. Ray is one of those guys who outside of his professional position is a really nice chap as a person as well.

Power wise anything of 40 watts and over will cope with 1/8th plywood, the other factor is how much power you want. Power gives speed (up to a point) but anything much over 80 watts isn't very good if you ever do any engraving as they will not run at a low enough power.

Speed wise: 1/8th Plywood (standard Glass DC tubes)

40 watt 12 to 14mm per second for plywood
80 watt 18 to 24mm per second for plywood
150 watt 45 to 60mm per second for plywood

Of all the Chinese machines the HX series are my personal favourites, they have some great features and for Imports are made to a good standard. The Rails are PMI, the head uses collet locking (not horrible side screws), the belts are of decent over capacity and the rise & fall on the motorised versions are often chain drive.

cheers

Dave

edit: I'm not a huge supporter of direct imports, I've seen too many go wrong and the factory support in some cases can be less than fantastic. If the supplier of an import decides not to play you will basically be on your own.

edit2: Even masked swearing will get you pulled up as Matty and Dan said ;)

[Doug Novic]

I have been dealing with Ray and his wife Carol for about two years now. No problems... no complaints. They stock everything in the warehouse (just outside of Cincinnati) including the machines. This makes my life simpler and eliminates a lot of headaches. My next one will be 150 watts and it will be a Rabbit. That's just me 2 cents worth I thought I would throw in.

[Weston Porter]

There are legal reasons for that in many countries, for the UK and EU a laser engraver and a laser cutter are governed by different import laws. An engraver has far less stringent safety requirements to conform to than a cutter, a cutter is considered an industrial machine and has to meet EU Factory Safety regulations.

That makes a lot of sense, thank you.


Power wise anything of 40 watts and over will cope with 1/8th plywood

Even baltic birch? What wattage do you think would be ideal? Cutting wood cleanly is sort of the cornerstone of how I'd like to use a laser cutter in my business.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Hi Weston,

Yes, 40 watts from a DC glass tube (Chinese type) will cope with 3.2mm baltic birch quite easily, for an RF unit like a trotech or similar then 30 watts will be fine (RF units have a better beam profile).

More power usually equals more speed but there are limits on speed due to the forces of starting and stopping movements of the mechanical parts. A 40 watt laser will cut 1/4inch ply, admittedly the cut will be dark and slow but it will do it. For 3mm/3.2mm ply the edge will be clean and light brown in colour.

I'd go to likely 80 watts maximum due to both duel purpose of the machine (if required) and the lower cost of replacing tubes when they die. Big tubes cost big $$$'s, a 150 watt can easily cost $2,000+ to replace with an 80 watt around $500.

cheers

Dave

[Dan Hintz]

I'd go to likely 80 watts maximum due to both duel purpose of the machine

As a point of reference, this was Trotec's suggestion, as well, even with their new Ceramicore tube... anything above 80W and they started having controllability issues with low-power engraving.