New to me jointer

[Mike Cozad]

Picked up a piece of American history today for a song. 12" jointer made by the W.W. Carey company. It was originally water powered so I will have to fabricate a motor mount and wire in the switch. It came with a new 5hp 1ph motor (with mounting bracket) and Woodtek magnetic switch, both new. It came with an Oliver 2 knife head, but will need to buy them. I am sure to ask plenty of questions as I start the resto on her. My oldest boy is a machinist so fabricating the necessary parts should be no problem. It is a complete machine, there are a couple of modern bolts that I will replace with period correct bolts (may have to make those ourselves) and we will need to figure out some sort of guard. There is no mounting hole or bracket of any kind and the few pics I can find of this exact machine show that it never had a guard :eek:.

We should have it running in no time. I plan to strip it down and give it a period correct paint job or at least a better paint scheme than it has. I'll also figure out a better roller stand than is on it. And dust collection may be a wish that never come true lol....

I think it will be a fun little project for my son and I to do together as well as preserve a piece of american history for generations to come. Not to mention a 12" jointer far exceeds my wildest dreams of what I would end up with. Especially for almost no investment.
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[David Kumm]

What type of head? I can't see it well from the picture. Sweet. Babbit bearings are in good shape? Dave

[Mike Cozad]

It's stamped Oliver Tool Company Grand Rapids, Mich. It also is stamped to ask for knife 4204 when ordering. There are also several sets of numbers on the head. The sequencing makes it seem like a manufacturing date. If they are it would have been made in 1921. I haven't found the specs on the knives yet but will keep looking. I haven't taken the bearings apart yet but the head turns very smoothly and easily. They appear to be in great shape. I will be taking them apart, cleaning and regreasing them soon. I'll take pics as I go through the resto and post them in a dedicated resto thread.

Here are some pics of the head sitting on the floor. I had to disassemble the machine to get it home. Way too heavy with the beds and head in place.

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[Steve Rozmiarek]

That is one classy looking machine, have fun!

[Andrew Fleck]

That sure is a nice looking jointer. I'm not sure how much you know about those old machines, but that looks like a clamshell cutterhead to me. Those are notorious for throwing knives. I would research and check that cutterhead out really well before I ran it.

I also see that somebody has installed grease fittings on your babbitt bearings. That was a conversion that somebody did so they wouldn't have to oil as much. Those should be oiled as the grease will break down the babbitt.

Hope this helps you out. I just got myself a babbitt jointer 6 months ago or so.

Andrew

[joe milana]

Andrew is correct.

A must read...

http://wiki.vintagemachinery.org/Clamshell%20Heads.ashx

[Mike Cozad]

I started researching today after I got it home and read that same artcle. I set out trying to research a replacement but am striking out on anything but a Byrd. While I'd love one, its not in the budget. It seems I should be able to find a replacement at a reasonable price if I knew where to look.... :( If anyone can point me towards a search string to get me on the right track, I'd appreciate it...

I thought babbits were oiled not greased based on past readings, so I'll remove that retrofit if I am able to keep the babbits with a replacement head.

[Mike Cozad]

Hope this helps you out. I just got myself a babbitt jointer 6 months ago or so.

Andrew

What type of head do you have and did it come with it or did you purchase it separately? If you have any advice I'd be grateful.

I am more about preserving this piece of history and having a safe, good user than I am saving money, but I have to be practical too (SWMBO glares at me when i talk about what it needs. :o

I have a 6" delta on the hook for $100 to get me by while I restore this one. I'm waiting for the current owner to fix the motor bearing and shorted switch. He owns a local machine repair shop and is getting out of WWing, so I was in the right place right time for that one too. When he figured out I was prior military he made me jump in his truck and head down to his barn so he could auction off nearly everything he had to me, lol... It was a good time but odd to say the least...

[joe milana]

Mike, head over to the owwm forum. You'll get some good advice over there.

[Mike Cozad]

Thats good advice, thanks Joe. I'll probably have to just start a thread and ask there because my searches aren't getting me sources. They are rendering me some great information in the "what I need" department though...

[Jeff Heath]

That's a clamshell head. I'm an OWWM'er, with quite a few restorations under my belt, including a few jointers. Personally, I wouldn't use that cutterhead. Several guys are still running them, but I repeat.....I would not. There are enough incidents of those throwing knives to make anyone wary. Also, over torquing of the hardware bolts over the years (approx. 100) can and has caused them to weaken, snapping off, allowing a knife to be launched.

There have been several pictures shown of the destruction to machine tables when this happens, and let's just say you don't want to be in the room when it happens.

Your options are to find a 12" 3 or 4 knife head that has enough extra length to fit your babbitt journals. Or, you can purchased a used 16" or longer cutterhead from a jointer or planer and have it machined down to the correct size for your machine. Any competent machine shop can handle that. Or, as stated, you can send your head to Byrd, and have them machine one to match your journals.....pretty expensive choice.

You should expect at the least to have to scrape in your babbitt to fit the new cutterhead, and most likely, you will have to pour new babbitt. Don't freak out.....it's not that hard to do, and there are several demo video's available on the OWWM forum and WIKI information at VintageMachinery.org.

It only sounds complicated, but changing out a head is not that big of a deal.......Nice machine.

[David Kumm]

Mike, clamshell is why I asked. Jointer is worth saving. Old PM 24" planer heads might be an option if the diameter works. Long enough to cut down. Dave

[Sam Puhalovich]

Mike; two years ago I bought a Robland combo that has a 12" jointer.
The machine did not have a guard.
While thumbing thru a Grizzly catalog, I came across their 12" jointer that has a 'conventinal' pork-chop guard.
I brought-up their pdf on that machine ... and ordered the complete parts set for the guard.
It wasn't cheap: came to about $160 ... $105 was for the pork-chop.
I drilled and tapped 2 mounting holes ... and, just mounted it on.
Works perfect.

[Andrew Fleck]

What type of head do you have and did it come with it or did you purchase it separately? If you have any advice I'd be grateful.

I am more about preserving this piece of history and having a safe, good user than I am saving money, but I have to be practical too (SWMBO glares at me when i talk about what it needs. :o

I have a 6" delta on the hook for $100 to get me by while I restore this one. I'm waiting for the current owner to fix the motor bearing and shorted switch. He owns a local machine repair shop and is getting out of WWing, so I was in the right place right time for that one too. When he figured out I was prior military he made me jump in his truck and head down to his barn so he could auction off nearly everything he had to me, lol... It was a good time but odd to say the least...

I was lucky with mine in that the original square head was replaced with a 2 knife cutterhead that uses a modern gib bolt design. It already had the 2 knife head when I purchased it. I agree with others who say to get a longer cutterhead and have it turned down to fit your bearings. That should be your cheapest option. The OWWM forum is a great source for information pertaining to what you want to do.

Like yours somebody had installed grease fittings and greased my babbitt bearings. Luckily there wasn't much damage to them. It just required a little bit of scraping which isn't really that hard.

Byrd heads are nice, but they are expensive. My 2 knife head actually leaves a really nice cut so I am happy with it. There are plenty of old planer cutterheads laying around so you should be able to find one fairly easily.

I do have a technique for getting the tables coplaner that works really well. I use piano wire. I will be happy to share that with you when you are ready for that.

[Keith Hankins]

Please keep a photo record and post. I love old Iron! I've got two now and a 3rd in restoration. What a blessing to have a son as a machinist. I tried to talk my teenager in to looking at that profession, but he would have none of it. Even the elevation wheel shows the craftsmanship of the old stuff. Let us know how it goes! Will you have to deal with babbit bearings, or will you be replacing with a modern bearing?

[Erik Manchester]

Mike,

Have you seen the FWW article where an Oliver 12" jointer was refitted with a Shelix head? http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/109767/one-big-jointer-one-huge-upgrade?utm_source=email&utm_medium=eletter&utm_content=fw_eletter&utm_campaign=fine-woodworking-eletter

I have an old 15" jointer that I think is a WW Carey but a bit older than yours that I will clean up. It has a square block cutterhead and would be a good candidate for a ball bearing refit in conjunction with a newer cutter.

Yours looks to be in great shape, have fun.

[Mike Cozad]

My current plan is to keep the babbits and find a modern cutter head that I can turn down and fit to the babbits. I really like the idea of keeping as much of the period mechanics as I can. Having a son that is a machinist and young man that works for me that is a tool and die maker from a previous life here in NW Ohio, I think I have a better than average chance of making it all work. Here is a pick of the pork chop style guard that the 2 ago previous owner was going to fit to it. The bracket with a shaft is in the picture with the motor. I might be able to make something out of all of that. If not I have found some pretty good options that will not take too much money or time to make. Having a couple of machinists "in the family" sure makes it a bit easier too.:D

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[Mike Cozad]

I do have a technique for getting the tables coplaner that works really well. I use piano wire. I will be happy to share that with you when you are ready for that.
Thanks for the offer, I appreciate it. I was looking at the 4 wedges per table and wondering what the easiest way to get all eight aligned to get the tables coplanar. Mechanically the beds move extremely well and very smoothly, so that part will be quick. I plan to get all of the cosmetic work done quickly so I can spend the rest of the time getting it wired up and the fabrication work done. In the mean time, the search is on for a replacement head.

[Erik Manchester]

Mike,

Yes, the machinists will certainly be handy to have around as you restore it. I am envious as I have no such skill.

Here iare a couple of pics of the one I found for $100 but there is a lot of work ahead and no motor came with it though I have a couple of 5 HP sitting on the shelf. There was no makers mark on it but the hand wheels look like other Carey jointers I have seen.

http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx344/beletuen/Tools/Vintage%20Jointer/IMG_00000199_zps2f0299be.jpg
http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx344/beletuen/Tools/Vintage%20Jointer/IMG_00000196_zpsf414c528.jpg

[Mike Cozad]

Erik,
I've seen pics of one like that during my searches. I'll see if I can back track and find them. Judging by the driven pulley on the head it looks to be still set up for flat belt drive. It may have come from an old mill or similar shop....

Tha is really cool. Love the milkbone shaped foot... and you're right, the handwheel is a spot-on match for nearly every Carey machine I've seen pictured...

[Erik Manchester]

Mike,

The jointer came from an old farm along the Saint John River north of Fredericton, NB in Canada. There was an 18" saw as well but I was not looking for one of those.

The farm owner says that the place used to build very large sleds used to haul timber down to the river in the winter, as there was a forge there as well. I think that the jointer and saw were run off a hit and miss engine at one point ~ 1890s and later from a tractor PTO. I am going to try and clean it up as best I can and get it running as is, before considering any mods.

I will have the machinists at work give the head a good going-over to make certain that it is balanced and all of the bolts are sound and well bedded before I power up the jointer. They can spin it up on the lathe much faster than I will and hopefully it is sound. I will likely look at having some HSS blades ground for it if all else is working well.

I would appreciate any additional info that you can find on the jointer if you saw something similar. I didn't see anything like it on Vintage Machinery.