Jointer/Planer Combo

[Thomas L. Miller]

I'm planning or ordering a jointer planer combo machine to replace a 6" jointer and a 12" "lunchbox" planer. Both machines are good and have served well, but the 6" jointer is a limitation that requires workarounds. We're preparing to do some renovations on the house that will require some wide woodwork, like 8" baseboards, etc. If I go this route, I'd want a helical cutter on the machine, since I have one on my jointer now, so I'm spoiled. My question would be a comparison between the available 12" Grizzly combo and a something comparable in a European machine. Since I haven't used or had experience with a European machine, I'd like to ask for some input from folks who might have had the chance to either own or use both types.
Thanks,
Tom

[Earl Rumans]

Tom, I have the Baileigh Industrial JP-1250 http://wood.baileighindustrial.com/industrial-jointer-planer-jp-1250 and I couldn't be happier with it. I think it's the best bang for the buck in a combo machine. The fence could be better designed for the chang over but it's not that bad. I have had this machine for about 3 months now and have run many BF through it. It does a great job, without any snipe and with the spiral head it's fairly quiet. Baileigh is new to the Woodworking end but have been making metal working machinery for many years.

Baileigh is a sponsor here give Shane a call or e-mail. Shane Henderson
Baileigh Industrial Woodworking
920-482-3220
shenderson@baileighindustrial.com (shenderson@baileighindustrial.com)

Shane is great to work with and can answer all your questions.

Earl

[Rich Riddle]

I purchased a used Minimax FS35 and am about to order the Shelix head for it. My previous Jet had the Shelix head and it worked great. I am not opposed to having a machine made in any country of origin, but lately I have purchased tools primarily from Europe. After using/owning many different machines, the European ones seem better made with less problems.

[Mark Carlson]

My choice would be a Hammer A3-31 with the silent power spiral head. I have the previous version with a Byrd head and its awesome. The newer model is even better.

~mark

[Dominic Carpenter]

I have research this for more than a year looking at the, Hammer, Jet, Grizzly, Rikon, and, recently the Baileigh to replace a 6" jointer and a lunch box planer. Jet was high on my list, however, several have mentioned the Jet motor getting hot if used for extended periods. The Grizzly eats too many Amps, while the folks at Baileigh gave me a few people to contact regarding the 1250. Interestingly, two of the three would not recommend the 1250 due to fence issues. Baileigh's lower cost and it's 20amp requirement almost swayed me to their machine (this is the same machine as the Grizzly except or the smaller motor and a better - 74 insert- Warrior helical head), but when push came to shove I went with Hammer. I currently own a Hammer K3W sliding table saw and never have regretted the purchase. Although the A331 is twice the cost of the Grizzly and Baileigh, I know what I will be getting with Hammer, including great customer service. The bottom line is quality, tight machining tolerances, single jointed bed, and the best cutter head in the business. I was thinking long term, never having to buy again. I'm confident based on my experience with Hammer that there will be no regrets. I'm sure the other manufacturers have fine machines, but I'm a firm believer that you get what you pay for.

[Lee Reep]

Coincidentally, I was just on the Hammer website earlier today. The A3-31 looks to be a great machine. They offer smaller and larger models, but the 310mm width (12") of the A3-31 seems ideal for my needs. I have a DeWalt DW735 planer (~13" width) that I've been very happy with, but I only have a 6" jointer, and always felt this was a big mismatch. I'm glad to hear positive reviews of the Hammer products. I just bought a Festool track saw, and can attest to the positive vibes of buying European tools.

More expensive? Yes. But I am at a point in my life that I will pay more for a superior product, and not concern myself with whether it really makes sense to spend the extra money. As such, I steer clear of Harbor Freight, except to buy nitrile gloves. :)

[Frank Martin]

I also had the Grizzly J/P with spiral carbide head. I was the very first one in the country to get that machine. Initially I was very happy. At the end I sold it as it became obvious to me why it costs so much less than the European machines. Currently I have a Minimax 5 function combo machine. I will say that the J/P on this machine is far superior to the Grizzly. Of course costs a lot more too. As Dominic said, you get what you pay for. Sometimes there are exceptions to this as my profession is sales and marketing, so I know the power strong sales push and marketing. But, I would say that in general this holds true in the woodworking tool world. One other thing to consider, if you ever sell it, resale value on European machinery tends to be a lot higher.

[Peter Kelly]

Been very happy with my FS41 Elite the few days I've been at the shop and able to use it this year. Would highly recommend it if it's within your budget.

Great transaction with MiniMax as well.

[Loren Woirhaye]

The kind where tables pivot up individually is trickier to return to alignment when switching from planer to jointer. The type where the tables lift up as one unit don't have this issue. There is some variation in how low the planer table must be lowered for the jointer dust hood to have room, so there is a certain amount of cranking to consider when looking at models.

[Dominic Carpenter]

I think it is important to consider the small design quirks built into the Grizzly and Baileigh machines as well. You have to remove the fence For the change over. That seems like a weird thing to be troubled by. Let's lets face it, I am buying a combo unit due to my space restrictions and I don't want to worry about finding a place to put the fence every time I switch over (hate putting things on the floor). Second, the table adjustment is just too cumbersome. The need to loosen a nut to adjust the table height and then retighten that nut to lock the table would be a source of frustration, a real rhythm breaker.

[John Lanciani]

The kind where tables pivot up individually is trickier to return to alignment when switching from planer to jointer. The type where the tables lift up as one unit don't have this issue. There is some variation in how low the planer table must be lowered for the jointer dust hood to have room, so there is a certain amount of cranking to consider when looking at models.

Not universally true. I've had my Rojek 16" J/P (2 pc. table) since 2004 and I've had to adjust the tables exactly twice. Once when I brought it into the shop and once when I put a Byrd head on it.

[Curt Harms]

Not needing to remove the fence and both jointer beds moving together were the primary reasons I chose the Jet JJP-12.

[William C Rogers]

I have the Mini Max FS35 and very happy it. However I did keep my lunchbox planer Dewalt 735 and use it when just doing one board or so.

[Chris Fournier]

Our 12" jointer/planer has been the second best-selling machine in the lineup for about the last ten years. I would say they are quite popular.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

I bought one of these machines and in a small shop it was a giant heart! The build is straight forward and very robust. I would get a Tersa head and be done with it ( I use very highly figured woods). Sharp Tersas work well and are pretty inexpensive.

When I first turned the J/P on and I place my hand on the infeed table I couldn't stop smiling, all that cast iron and a great build made for a vibe free machine. I sold this machine and got a much larger... Minimax!

The slot mortising table is worth it too by the way.

[Curtis Horswill]

You could always wait and watch the used market as well if your not in a big hurry. I found this Knapp 16" J/P at an auction and brought it home for $1600. You can get a lot of machine for your dollar in the used market.

[Rod Sheridan]

I would opt for the Hammer with the new spiral cutter head.

I'm not aware of other spiral carbide heads with a MAN rating, which is an important safety feature for a jointer as it's hand fed.

I really like my A3-31, and customer support has been fantastic.................Regards, Rod.

[Erik Loza]

Rod, are you implying that a non MAN-rated spiral head, such as the Byrd Shelix, is somehow less safe to the operator than yours?

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Michael Mahan]

Helical Cutter Head
ok , I'm confused what are the pro & con of the below heads & can anyone explain the differences


1st which has the best cut & less tear-out ( 1st off this my prime importance ! )

2nd the noise issue , I live in a house & shop /garage

3rd ease of blade change

4th life of blade

5th costs of blade changes


I'm buying a jointer / planer combo in a week or two
I need a informed base of info to settle on which NEW machine I want ( I'm heavily leaning Euro , NO Asian at all )
so can you guys give a explanation of these different heads I keep hearing :

Helical Cutter Head

Byrd Shelix

Tersa head

spiral carbide head


silent power spiral head ( Hammer,Felder )

:confused:

[Erik Loza]

Mike, I'm emailing you shortly.

Thanks,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Erik, as you're aware in the EU, non MAN rated tooling is no longer suitable for hand fed applications due to reduced incidence and energy of kickbacks.

I'm suggesting that since the testing has proven so in the EU, it's unlikely to be not true in North America.

I don't have a spiral head jointer, I have the straight cartridge knife system on mine, and it is MAN rated.

Unfortunately the Minimax dealers where I live have no display models so I'm not familiar with your cutter heads. (I really wish they would have some floor models on display as you make an excellent product, however in Canada your dealers fall somewhere between awful and abysmal).

Being a European manufacturer I'm assuming your cutter heads are MAN rated?

Regards, Rod

[Mark Henshaw]

I have had the Grizzly J/P for 2 years now and I quite happy with the purchase. Switch from Jointer to planer at least twice a week and have never had any issues with the beds going back to their original position. The spiral carbide head planes even curly and birdseye maple with no/minimal tearout. Like all combination jointer/planers, the setting of the infeed and outfeed tables can be a pain in the back side if they ever need to be adjusted.

[Erik Loza]

...Unfortunately the Minimax dealers where I live have no display models so I'm not familiar with your cutter heads...

Rod, Tersa is a cutterhead manufactured in Switzerland by the Samvaz Corporation...
http://www.samvaz.ch/jo25/en/tersa.html

...and sold under license to industrial manufacturers such as Felder and the SCM Group/Minimax. In fact, one of Tersa's oldest customers is Martin Machinery of Germany, regarded as some of the finest woodworking machines built...
http://www.martin-usa.com/cms/_main/planing/t54.html

Tersa is straight knife which is double-sided and reversible. You use it, flip it over, re-use it, then throw it away when you are done. It is similar to the Felder/Hammer/Esta systems in that regards but goes one step further. Rather than dropping in the top of the cutterhead and depending on you, the operator, to lock it in place with the gib bar, Tersa knives slide into a channel in the side of the cutterhead and lock into place by the cutterhead's own centrifugal force. Tersa knife changes are very fast but more importantly, a Tersa cutterhead is the safest you can operate. Reason being that it is physically impossible to install incorrectly or to have the knife ever fly free of the head. The faster the head spins, the more securely the knives lock into place. Schools and gov't institutions, for example, routinely ask for Tersa for the reason that it limits their potential liability in the shop environment.

Here is how a Tersa knife is changed (you do not actually need the fancy tool; I just use a flathead screwdriver and small block of wood....)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ro0hEOtXdw

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i315/erikloza/jointer-planer/Tersa.gif
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i315/erikloza/jointer-planer/RemovingTersaknife.jpg
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i315/erikloza/jointer-planer/Tersakniferemoved.jpg
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i315/erikloza/jointer-planer/ReplacingTersaknife.jpg

As you can see in the GIF, Tersa is a "low projection" knife and as such, is very quiet. Yes, Tersa heads are BG-certified for use by hand (you will see the MAN certification number stamped on the cutterhead of the second-to-last photo...).

So, the million-dollar question: "Which is better? Tersa or spiral?". If I was buying a new machine and the price were equivalent? Tersa, hands-down. For no other reason than the time savings. I can change the whole Tersa head in a fraction of the time it takes to rotate all the teeth on just one row of a spiral head. Plus, with Tersa, I am not locked into buying only carbide teeth. I can use HSS (my favorite), Cobalt, etc. There are lots of options and I can order them literally on Amazon.com.

Now, all that being said, if I was not able to get Tersa on my machine (I know that Felder offers it as an upgrade; not sure about Hammer), I would get the spiral. Reason being that spiral is indeed better than most other straight-knife systems. Quieter, uses less energy, etc. Spirals are all the rage right now because every budget machine offers them (and justly so). Tersa has actually been the more prevalent cutterhead in Europe for many years in the industrial sector.

Hope this helps clarify,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[David Kumm]

Not all spiral heads use less energy. My understanding is that one reason Felder developed their own was the power needed for the Byrd was more than the straight knife head and noticeable with the smallest motor. Dave

PS Curtis, you totally stole that JP. The Knapp build quality was high end.

[Erik Loza]

Not all spiral heads use less energy. My understanding is that one reason Felder developed their own was the power needed for the Byrd was more than the straight knife head and noticeable with the smallest motor. Dave

Dave, that is possible but I would be curious to see an amp-draw comparison between, say, a Byrd head and that silent one of the same size.

It is funny: I've been selling jointer/planers for 10 years (including for the competitor in question!..) and the first time I ever heard of "lower amp draw" being touted as some real-world advantage was in the last year or two and only from one source! "Sound level", I get. "Finish quality", I get, but how much power is someone actually saving on a 12" machine that runs maybe a couple-hundred board-feet a month? You still need a 30A breaker, right? You going to be running that machine for 5-6 hours a day, five days a week? Just sayin'....

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[David Kumm]

Erik, I saw some amp charts vs the two spiral heads some time ago but the actual numbers didn't make it into long term memory. I think the issue was coupling the Byrd to the single phase motor which is smaller and still getting the depth of cut that was advertised. I do know that when I put a Byrd on my 13" Delta it was quiet, gave a great finish, but wouldn't take as much off as the straight blades it replaced. Didn't matter as it was for finish work only. My Oliver spiral which is one of the great head designs does need more motor than a straight knife head. How much is above my pay grade. Dave

[Mark Woodmark]

I have two euro machines, a tablesaw and a bandsaw. I like them both. The issues I have had so far are with the motor capacitors. I have had to replace the capacitor on each machine. It appears the Europeans dont quite know how to deal with our electrical system. I have also had a problem with a bad micro switch on the band saw. The table saw has a sliding table and I love that. It is accurate and smooth. Parts for both machines are expensive. Dadoing on the table saw would cost me a fortune for a cutter head and in spite of what i was told, I cannot purchase a custom drilled dado blade set that will do any dado deeper than 1/4". I know this sounds like I dont like the machines, but I am just trying to give you the negatives. I really do like both

I have a Grizzly 16 inch planer/ jointer combo. They are discontinuing selling this machine, but still have some at a lower price than I paid for it. It is actually a machine made by the German company Scheppa. It appears to be identical to the Scheppa Plana 7 with the exception of Grizzly paint and labels. I love the machine, it is a beast, but I will have to contact Scheppa in Germany for parts in the future.

[Mark Carlson]

A big advantage of the carbide inserts is how long they stay sharp before needing to be rotated. I'm going on a year now, and haven't rotated my byrd head cutters yet. I've read a lot of reviews on the tersa head and the one complaint some make is how fast the knives dull. Any truth to that?

[Erik Loza]

I hear you, Dave. The thing is, there is always a tradeoff. Spiral heads are quieter and (may) pull less amps but in order to be quiet, you have to reduce the knife projection, which in turn limits the depth of cut. This is why spiral heads (or Tersa, for that matter) will never be able to hog as much material in a single pass as traditional straight-knifer head will.

The reduced amp draw is a combination of the limited knife projection (less physical resistance to the material being removed) and the "shearing" angle of the row of cutting edges as they meet the wood (only a few knives making contact at any time, versus an entire row meeting the wood all at once).

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Erik Loza]

A big advantage of the carbide inserts is how long they stay sharp before needing to be rotated. I'm going on a year now, and haven't rotated my byrd head cutters yet. I've read a lot of reviews on the tersa head and the one complaint some make is how fast the knives dull. Any truth to that?

Mike, yes and no.

There are four common alloys of Tersa knife: Chrome-steel, Cobalt steel (aka "M42") High-speed steel, and Tungsten Carbide. If someone was comparing the longevity of, say, a Chrome Tersa knife to that of a carbide knife, then "yes", it definitely will not hold its edge as long. But that's apples and oranges. You could install carbide knives in the Tersa head and get the same longevity as carbide insert teeth. Personally, I prefer HSS. It's the best mix of longevity and finish quality. Better finish quality, in fact, than carbide iny my opinion.

One note: Commonly, you will see shops mix and match Tersa knives in the same head. I have seen shops, for instance, install two carbide knives and two HSS knives in their planer. You get an improvement in longevity while still maintaining a high finish qauality. Martin even supplies "dummy" inserts with their machines, in case you want to save money and only run one pair of knives. I have even seen shops slide one "section", of say, HSS, into one side of their jointer, for edge jointing, then use a different knife for the rest. Tersa gives you that kind of flexibility.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[David Kumm]

The tradeoff being that inserts are always in the cut while there may be no straight knife in the cut much of the time. No question about noise or cut quality ( although a large diameter straight blade with a grinder can deliver impressive results ). If I had a machine with a marginal motor, I would not convert it to spiral and expect it to improve the motor problem. Dave

[Jamie Buxton]

...There are four common alloys of Tersa knife: Chrome-steel, Cobalt steel (aka "M42") High-speed steel, and Tungsten Carbide..

Erik, you have me confused. Chrome steel (usually M2) and cobalt steel (M42) are high speed steels. High speed steel is a whole family of steels distinguished by their ability to hold an edge at higher temperatures than ordinary carbon steel.

[Erik Loza]

Erik, you have me confused. Chrome steel (usually M2) and cobalt steel (M42) are high speed steels. High speed steel is a whole family of steels distinguished by their ability to hold an edge at higher temperatures than ordinary carbon steel.

Jamie, you could be entirely correct. A metallurgist, I am not. I will tell you that what they sell as "HSS" has been (for me, anyhow) the best one for longevity and finish quality. Here is how Tersa markets their knives...

http://www.simantechinc.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=2

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Michael Mahan]

Mike, yes and no.

There are four common alloys of Tersa knife: Chrome-steel, Cobalt steel (aka "M42") High-speed steel, and Tungsten Carbide. If someone was comparing the longevity of, say, a Chrome Tersa knife to that of a carbide knife, then "yes", it definitely will not hold its edge as long. But that's apples and oranges. You could install carbide knives in the Tersa head and get the same longevity as carbide insert teeth. Personally, I prefer HSS. It's the best mix of longevity and finish quality. Better finish quality, in fact, than carbide iny my opinion.

One note: Commonly, you will see shops mix and match Tersa knives in the same head. I have seen shops, for instance, install two carbide knives and two HSS knives in their planer. You get an improvement in longevity while still maintaining a high finish qauality. Martin even supplies "dummy" inserts with their machines, in case you want to save money and only run one pair of knives. I have even seen shops slide one "section", of say, HSS, into one side of their jointer, for edge jointing, then use a different knife for the rest. Tersa gives you that kind of flexibility.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

yeah that flexibility is a huge plus in my buying decision on a J/P combo at 1st I was sold on the silent power head / byrd style carbide cutters but after some careful thought about being able to Very Quickly swap knives to match my needs on different species of wood the Tersa system will fit me better , the ability to fine tune surface QT on the fly is very appealing .
I have a planer with straight knives just the thought of changing the knives gives me a headache & that is all I know ATM
I'm buying the Tersa in what ever machine I've settled on , that simplicity of swapping blades to get the best surface is very appealing in my J/P needs .
Felder has those videos where they show the differences in sound & then the one with the smaller chip size both of that is secondary to me .
Surface quality trumps that sound/chip size with me

[mreza Salav]

Have a FS350 minimax J/P with tersa head and am quite happy with it.

[Chris Fournier]

Web based BS.

I have a Tersa cutter in my J/P and a spiral cutter in my shaper. The Tersa performs every bit as well as the spiral cutter at a lesser cost per surface foot. Sharp to sharp neither performs better than the other. This spiral cutter myth is effective marketing propounded by folks who drank the Koolaid. Buy a high quality machine with either conventional or Tersa cutters and mill wood, they do a great job, no beef no need to go spiral. Buy a hobby grade machine, spiral may prove to perform better, there is so much room to improve these machines.

Fact is that I can comfortably have a conversation beside my 16" Tersa cutterhead as I can by my 4.5" spiral cutterhead.

Carbide lasts longer but can never be as sharp as HSS. Sharp cuts cleanly. Buy a machine with a spiral cutter head and away you go, enjoy.

From a manufacturing/machining standpoint it is simple, a Tersa simply has to have three to four referenced surfaces to cut well. How many surfaces must be referenced on a spiral head? As many as there are cutters. That is more difficult.

Spiral cutter heads and bevel up planes will be lauded as 21st century fashions touted as superior to tradition.

[Thomas L. Miller]

Thanks everyone! I really appreciate all the information. One of the issues I face is that I live in a "non metro" part of Texas. We don't have any real machinery suppliers here and the closest is Dallas which is about 120 miles away. While I wouldn't expect any real service issues from a quality machine could it be an issue? I have no issue with buying quality, once. I've learned the lesson of cheap tools and don't bother with trying to justify the higher first cost of quality. I am a hobby woodworker and have absolutely no interest in trying the professional side of the craft. I retired from a Fortune 100 corporation about 3 years ago after being responsible for major decisions in a $1B plus business for 23 years and running a business again has no appeal for me. That said, I also don't want the frustration and regret that comes with poorly designed and manufactured tools. One of my reasons for interest in the combo machines is that of space. It is not unlimited and if I can replace two machines with one, that holds a lot of appeal. Thanks again to everyone for the information! Have a happy and safe holiday!

Tom

[Erik Loza]

Tom, regardless of who you decide to go with (assuming we are talking about European-mfr'ed machines...), any of them are a safe bet. It is unlikely you would ever need service or support beyond basic setup/adjustment FAQ's. Jointer/planers are kind of like bandsaws in this regard: Not a whole lot of moving parts or ultra-complicated assemblies to malfunction. I can tell you for example, that most of my owners' "crises" involve something like minor freight damage (ie, broken switches, damaged cosmetic panels, or bumps and bruises to the machine....) rather than something along the lines of "my machine is a lemon".

Best,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[michael flay]

You cannot go wrong with the Minimax line I own a MM20 bandsaw and a 12JP made by Minimax for Casadei with a tersa head and have never looked back.

[Alan Lightstone]

I have the Laguna 12" J/P with spiral heads. Heavy duty, does a fine job. Biggest criticism is that chip removal in jointer mode is pathetic, despite my enlarging the DC port to 6" and running it through a 5HP cyclone.

The fence also needs to be rezeroed after changeover, and isn't coplanar, which rots. The machines that have 0 degree stops and move as one piece with the changeover would be hugely preferred in my book.

I had to install my own DRO (not an option) which I love, but feel should have been an option. Hugely powered machine for the task. That being said, check on people's opinions regarding chip collection in jointer mode on the combination machines. It's a big issue, at least for my brand.

[David Zaret]

i have the martin TP300 jointer/planer combo, with the tersa knives. don't know if it's more quiet than the spiral head machine i used previously, but it cuts like a dream.

[C Scott McDonald]

i have the martin TP300 jointer/planer combo, with the tersa knives. don't know if it's more quiet than the spiral head machine i used previously, but it cuts like a dream.

I would hope so for what that machine cost. :)

[Michael Mahan]

i have the martin TP300 jointer/planer combo, with the tersa knives. don't know if it's more quiet than the spiral head machine i used previously, but it cuts like a dream.

That's an impressive Beauty of 20" of German made Sweetness

[Robert LaPlaca]

That's an impressive Beauty of 20" of German made Sweetness

The Martin USA showroom is in the greater Charlotte area, I was interested in upgrading to a larger combination machine and the TP300 was on the short list, so I had the chance to the see the machine at the showroom.. First let me say that the TP300 is a beautiful machine, it really is, but I was very surprised to learn the machine was made in Italy by Griggio for Martin, so it's actually 20" of Italian made Sweetness..

[Peter Kelly]

That's an impressive Beauty of 20" of German made Sweetness

You meant Italian-made, right? ;)
http://www.griggio.it/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=2&category_id=2&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1

[Michael Mahan]

OK ,

That's an impressive Beauty of 20" of Italian made Sweetness with a German " ReBranding " :p

[Seth Runkle]

I'd be interested in hearing, 18 months later, how it's worked out. I, too, am in a virtually identical position, but the price of the Hammer has scared me off. I'll pay for quality, but it's not an insignificant difference. Was it set out of the crate, coplaner and all? Are you finding a need to make adjustments on any regular basis? And how about the fence, is it case or aluminum and any issues? Thanks in advance for your thoughts and experience.

[Seth Runkle]

Where are you looking for used combo machines?

[Susumu Mori]

Hi Seth,

I purchased a A331 more than a year ago.
The machine is completely calibrated. After more than a year, it stays just as delivered.
Once exception is the outfeed table which is intentionally set lower (maybe higher, I don't remember) and need to be adjusted (very easy), as clearly stated in the manual.

As for the aluminum fence, it does need some experience because there is a bit of room for wiggle for clamping. I needed to decide the way I clamp it for complete reproducibility. Also, if I set the fence too much to the back, one of the support legs of the fence is no long on the table, introducing another room for wiggle. So you don't want to put the fence too far back. Once I learned these, it just performs. It's always ready. Just push woods through it and it delivers. No adjustment, no fiddling. And it's a quiet machine with the helical head.

Yes it's expensive, but as Rod said, we somehow never regret for buying things too expensive for woodworking. And we know that European used machines hold values. In a long run, it give a good value and pleasant woodworking time with the excellent quality is a bonus!