Fiber laser

[Gary Hair]

So I'm contemplating a fiber laser to supplement my co2. I have read a few threads about them but wanted to see what the people who have them think about their machine, pros and cons. Also would like to see a ballpark price for a typical machine - seems that about 20 watts is plenty? What about the size of the area you can engrave, how big can you go?

Thanks for any info!

Gary

[Joe Hillmann]

Are you looking at a flat bed or a galvo laser?

[matthew knott]

Have little experience with XY but lots with Galvo, 20 watts is the standard as you can do virtually all jobs with it without breaking the bank.
Marking area depends on the lens size, we use a F254 for most jobs and that gives you a 180mm x 180mm marking area.
Pros are you can engrave things a CO2 wont touch, like all metals, the speed is many times quicker, and the quality is normally a bit better also due to a smaller laser spot size. Also setup is very simple for low qty jobs, we have a red guide laser that draws an exact image of whats being engraved, so just position and hit go!
Down side is they tend to come with more labor intensive work, for example you cant just load a big tray of parts up and leave it running. Someone has to sit and load the bits in, as they are engraved so quickly. Cost wise they start at about $20k and go up, software is important, i have used very bad, very average and very good, you want very good, surprisingly they very good is from asia, as was the very bad, ask for a demo version of the software, if you want a link to a demo of what we use i can PM you one, give you an idea of what they are all about, I also have a facebook page with little demos and videos but not sure if you are allowed live links on here !?! but again i can PM.
All in all very useful tool to have, dont take up much room or cost much to run.

All of this is only for a Galvo Fiber, if you buy an XY style then the only difference is you can process different materials, everything else is the same as a co2

CHeers

[Gary Hair]

Are you looking at a flat bed or a galvo laser?

My initial thought was a galvo but I'm not too excited about the small area you can engrave. The primary customer I would buy this for does lots of small parts and I need to be able to load up a bunch and hit the "go" button. I'm not sure that's practical, or even possible, but it would be my preference.

[Gary Hair]

Have little experience with XY but lots with Galvo, 20 watts is the standard as you can do virtually all jobs with it without breaking the bank.
Marking area depends on the lens size, we use a F254 for most jobs and that gives you a 180mm x 180mm marking area.
Pros are you can engrave things a CO2 wont touch, like all metals, the speed is many times quicker, and the quality is normally a bit better also due to a smaller laser spot size. Also setup is very simple for low qty jobs, we have a red guide laser that draws an exact image of whats being engraved, so just position and hit go!
Down side is they tend to come with more labor intensive work, for example you cant just load a big tray of parts up and leave it running. Someone has to sit and load the bits in, as they are engraved so quickly. Cost wise they start at about $20k and go up, software is important, i have used very bad, very average and very good, you want very good, surprisingly they very good is from asia, as was the very bad, ask for a demo version of the software, if you want a link to a demo of what we use i can PM you one, give you an idea of what they are all about, I also have a facebook page with little demos and videos but not sure if you are allowed live links on here !?! but again i can PM.
All in all very useful tool to have, dont take up much room or cost much to run.

All of this is only for a Galvo Fiber, if you buy an XY style then the only difference is you can process different materials, everything else is the same as a co2

CHeers

I appreciate the info and would love to have a look at the demo and fb page you have setup. You can email me directly if you like

Thanks,
Gary

[matthew knott]

Had a quick look at your website and there's quite a few things that would have been easier, faster and come out better with a galvo fiber, I will email in a second with details, small parts are easy and fast and once you get used to it, also looks like you already offer a range of services so having a fiber would give you something different to add!

[matthew knott]

tried email but it seems i cant work out what is should be, i tried using your message facility, hopefully that worked, let me know if not , garyhair at etc ??

[Gary Hair]

I got your message through my site, thanks! I'll check the links out as soon as I'm done running a print job on my DCS.

Thanks!
Gary

[Gary Hair]

Matthew - do you have to use that software or could I continue to use Corel? It would be a shame to learn yet another program, not to mention redoing any files I have created now in Corel.

[matthew knott]

Yes you have to use the new software BUT its a good thing Corel is an excellent graphics program but its not and never was designed to run a laser, one advantage with a Fiber laser is the level of control you have over things, for example you might want to run a high power pass in one direction then run a low power cleaning pass at a different direction, power and frequency. Corel with a print driver just wont give you the features you need to get the best results.
You wont have to redo any graphics you have done, simply open in Corel, then export as a Adobe Illustrator 5 second job, if you can use corel then the software should have a familiar feel. Most galvo machines have their own generic software, i think trotec offers a print driver but it really is better to take a few hours to grasp whatever the correct software is.

One thing you cant see is the interaction between the laser and the software, for example if you press F2 on your PC if you had a laser you would get a red light image of the exact engraving, you can them jog the image using the arrow keys on your pc. You can also select and part of your design and by having 'mark selected only' you can in real time move that part and the red light moves with it. Its hard to explain really.

The way we operated is design the artwork in corel - export it as ai (version 8)- import it to halocad - set laser parameter - hit go
try importing an Adobe Illustrator file, or email me a cdr and i will email back a file for you.
Thanks
Matt






Matthew - do you have to use that software or could I continue to use Corel? It would be a shame to learn yet another program, not to mention redoing any files I have created now in Corel.

[Zlatko Kursar]

Matthew, I recently bought fiber laser and I would like to know if there is better software and whether it works on my laser?

[matthew knott]

What make is it and what software is it using?

[Dave Sheldrake]

how big can you go?

1600mm x 1600mm on a Vytek with a moving bed Galvo head. Each section is engraved by the Galvo then the work is repositioned by the moving bed and the next section done. Expensive.....VERY, but good for large engraved areas that would take a lifetime on a gantry machine.

I love Galvo lasers but I don't do much engraving so mine tend to sit idle much of the time.

Imported Chinese Galvo's run from $7k for a CO2 glass tube,$10k for an RF and $14k for a 10 watt fiber (diode pumped YAG goes around $15k for a 50 watt)
600 watt Fiber gantry machine start at around $40k for large format and $20k for smaller metal cutters with 200 watt sources.

cheers

Dave

[Mike Null]

Gary

FWIW, I turned down several thousand dollars in business this year due to not having a fiber machine. A lot of that business was knives but not all--there were some industrial opportunities as well.

I'm sure you'll be able to justify this piece of equipment in a hurry. If one were on the horizon for me it would be a flat bed as the galvo is limited in its versatility.

[Tim Bateson]

... I turned down several thousand dollars in business this year due to not having a fiber machine. A lot of that business was knives but not all--there were some industrial opportunities as well....

Ditto. I came sooooo close to pulling the trigger on a dual CO2/Fiber Trotec at the Indianapolis show. I've always run my business debt free and couldn't push myself into the financing.

[Zlatko Kursar]

Matthew, I bought chinese galvo fiber with EZCAD. Because I am new with galvo laser for now software is OK but maybe I can use something better.

[Dan Hintz]

FWIW, I turned down several thousand dollars in business this year due to not having a fiber machine.
Double ditto.


I've always run my business debt free and couldn't push myself into the financing.
Ditto. Bought my ULS that way, just bought the Trotec that way, and I'm finally able to say I have enough to buy a fiber that way.

[Mike Null]

I'm also on that plan and that will prevent me from acquiring any major equipment for now. But I am keeping my wish list.

[matthew knott]

The crazy thing is we are probably so wrong with the way we operate in a conservative fashion BUT I'm exactly the same, all machines purchased up front with cash in the bank, always got the machine and hoped the work would come ! Field of dreams business model , but that's always what's happened and so far so good ! I honestly think a galvo fibre is a tool a laser engraving company should not be without, but then it's what I know, 7 years ago $70k now less than $20k , that's progress

[Dan Hintz]

The crazy thing is we are probably so wrong with the way we operate in a conservative fashion

Maybe, maybe not... think of all of the businesses who thought "if we buy it, they will come", only to find out the some market crashed somewhere, leading to less business all around. Now they're stuck with hefty payments or a lease and no income to pay it. I know if I buy it outright, the worst that can happen is it collects dust, but the bank ain't comin' to grab it back and ding my credit.

[John Bion]

Maybe, maybe not... think of all of the businesses who thought "if we buy it, they will come", only to find out the some market crashed somewhere, leading to less business all around. Now they're stuck with hefty payments or a lease and no income to pay it. I know if I buy it outright, the worst that can happen is it collects dust, but the bank ain't comin' to grab it back and ding my credit.

Nor do I think I would sleep well with debt hanging over my head; as the old expression goes: 'slowly, slowly catches the monkey', better to slowly build than quickly colapse.
Regards,
John

[Dave Sheldrake]

(Opinion) excessive use of credit is much of the reason both our Nations are in so much financial trouble.

As Dan pointed out
"if we buy it, they will come" when in reality that is mostly marketing hype from the companies trying to sell us something. Like you guys everything I own from the smallest household item to the house they live in as well as all my equipment and supplies are all paid for upfront. It gives me the freedom to wake up having a bad day and just pack it all in without owing a living soul a penny.

I've seen quite a few laser companies start up over the years only to be gone inside two years when they realise their hobby isn't really a business and isn't sustainable. By then it has taken their credit rating any any chance of a future with it.

just my opinion of course

cheers

Dave

[matthew knott]

I'm not really a risk taker or gambler, slow steady safe growth is whats suits us. Interestingly you normally find the big entrepreneurs will have a long list of big fails behind them and have often been bankrupt at some stage, i guess they are less risk adverse so when they win they win big, but when they lose... also you only hear about the winners, how many people have lost their houses,cars, on failed businesses.