Tell me I'm crazy

[Dennis Hawkins]

Hi all

I'm in the middle of building a tall dresser for myself. Approx 50"tall x 38" wide x 22'' deep. Very similar to this:

http://www.custommade.com/greene-and-greene-inspired-arts-and-crafts-dresser/by/mallenwoodworks/

I purchased some local Butternut cheap and decided to make the project with it even though another hardwood would have been my first choice.

I have the carcass built but have not started on the drawers. Of course this project calls for inset drawers with exposed joints and an integral drawer face.
The interior web frames on my project are hardwood plywood with a Butternut front edge. Given my choice of a soft hardwood I realize that my drawer slide approach is limited due to possible wear over time.

The dresser is large enough that I'm considering using Blum undermounts. I figured I could bottom mount the slide to the web frames, build the drawer box just shy of the opening then rabbet out the bottom section of the drawer side to overhang the fixed part of the slide. I have 21-1/8" from the face of the front leg to the back of the cabinet so it looks like I'll be using 18" slides to get my setback where I want it.

Does this sound reasonable for a project like this or should I be doing something like wooden side mount slides or wooden guides under the drawers? I don't have any issue with using the mechanical slides even though this seems to be somewhat of a purists kind of project.
D.


This is my first crack at a project of this magnitude and obviously I didnt have everything all worked out.

I'd like to hear some suggestions from anyone who has far more experience than I.

[Jueri Svjagintsev]

Disregarding purist objections I'd say it's hard to beat the mechanical advantage of ball bearings over wood to wood friction. So this sounds reasonable to me, furthermore, the guides, besides being modular and replaceable also come with some adjustability which would be most useful in getting the reveals.

[Jueri Svjagintsev]

One more thing, IIRC, Accuride has a wider range of drawer slide depths. I do believe you can find a 20" which would get you an extra 2 inches of distance over the Blum 18".

[Keith Hankins]

I've used accuride and blum and they are all ok. In the end it's for you so who cares. For me, I like the traditional for myself but that's my taste so it works for me. If it's what a client want's then it's the best thing since sliced bread (TIC). I think butternut is a fine choice. You going natural or are you going to apply some type of coloring treatment? Only suggestion is (if you can) do a mock-up with ply or something to get your install right then go for it. I use to poo-poo that suggestion, till messed some good wood up and had to do a design change to cover (ahh I mean enhance the design) my boo boo. After that, I do it every time and it's paid many dividends. Good luck and post some pic's would be great to see it.

[Peter Quinn]

I did similar on a book case build for my young son, fearing his ability to wreck anything not made of metal. It eats up some drawer space but can be done, and frankly all purity aside they work better than many antique drawers and get you full extension. Depends on your level of attention to tradition. You want an antique reproduction or a highly functional modern master piece. I won't tell you your're crazy, because that means I'm crazy too, and if I think I'm crazy I can't be crazy...according to the rules of Catch 22....that said you could put a 1/8" strip of hard maple on the kickers and runners if going the all wood route And largely overcome the problems of using soft wood and plywood web frame.

[Dennis Hawkins]

Depends on your level of attention to tradition. You want an antique reproduction or a highly functional modern master piece.

Peter
I'm not too hung up on tradition. This project in and of itself is calling for a more traditional build method but I want to blend old with new if it makes sense. I like the idea of building a highly functional modern masterpiece .

[Dennis Hawkins]

I've used accuride and blum and they are all ok. In the end it's for you so who cares. For me, I like the traditional for myself but that's my taste so it works for me. If it's what a client want's then it's the best thing since sliced bread (TIC). I think butternut is a fine choice. You going natural or are you going to apply some type of coloring treatment? Only suggestion is (if you can) do a mock-up with ply or something to get your install right then go for it. I use to poo-poo that suggestion, till messed some good wood up and had to do a design change to cover (ahh I mean enhance the design) my boo boo. After that, I do it every time and it's paid many dividends. Good luck and post some pic's would be great to see it.
Keith
Most of my stock is fairly uniform in color tone so it will be natural with Waterlox tung oil for my finish.
Once I actually get the carcass glued up I'll post some photos of what I have so far. I wanted to finalize the drawer slide issue before I continue. I plan on getting the slides and doing a mock-up so I get it right in all respects.
D.

[Chris Merriam]

I used accuride undermounts for my dresser, 2 per drawer to eliminate tippiness. It was a serious pain to get them lined up correctly so the drawers slide smoothly. Some drawers I did better than others. If you go this route, spend some time googling for prices. I forget where I got mine, not a common retailer, but they were only 5-6 each, instead of the 12+ you will probably see at the big box and/or usual woodworking stores.

[Sam Murdoch]

Blum Undermounts are excellent and I would not hesitate to use them. Side mount Accurides will be less than desirable as they compromise the useful drawer space. In a dresser wider is better than deep IMHO. Having said that - just because you are using butternut as the principal wood does not mean that you can't use a hard maple or oak for the drawer slides. Mixing woods in a piece for various purposes is very traditional if creating a pure traditional piece is a concern.

Using the Blum undercounts allows you to eliminate all but the bottom and maybe a center web frame. There will be plenty of structure with 3 horizontals so that you can dispense with the frames for drawer support. The Blums can be mounted to the sides - either directly or to added cleats or to the font frame and to the back on brackets.

Oh shucks - to your request - YOU ARE CRAZY :D

[Dennis Hawkins]

Having said that - just because you are using butternut as the principal wood does not mean that you can't use a hard maple or oak for the drawer slides. Mixing woods in a piece for various purposes is very traditional if creating a pure traditional piece is a concern.

Sam
Actually I was planning on using ash for the drawer sides as it is an economical choice for me(cheaper than the butternut).
I wanted to bypass the traditional wood slide route to ensure the primary parts of the dresser around the drawer opening did not end up getting worn from the drawer. My lack of experience here is not allowing me to visualize how tight I can make traditional slides to keep this from happening. (Due to racking or tipping when extended). Of course I'm assuming the under mounts will help in this respect.

[Dave Zellers]

People get too hung up on needing drawer slides/guides. For me, a dresser like that would have drawers with 1/2" thick sides that simply slide on runners built into the cabinet. I'd leave 1/32" difference between the drawer width and the drawer hole width and 1/8" difference in height. Full extension is a non issue for a dresser.

Since the drawers are inset, a method of fine tuning the side to side movement at the front might be in order which could be as simple as thin shims.

Not meaning to sound puristy, I just don't see the need to spend money on hardware for a dresser. Plus I think they are better without it. A kitchen however, now that's different.

[Dave Zellers]

Sam
Actually I was planning on using ash for the drawer sides
Ash is an awesome wood for drawer sides, very stable. However, ash is really hard and butternut is very soft. Sanding them smooth where they meet could be tricky.

[Keith Hankins]

Keith
Most of my stock is fairly uniform in color tone so it will be natural with Waterlox tung oil for my finish.
Once I actually get the carcass glued up I'll post some photos of what I have so far. I wanted to finalize the drawer slide issue before I continue. I plan on getting the slides and doing a mock-up so I get it right in all respects.
D.

Ahhh waterlox. Love it. I work mostly in Cherry and that was my primary finish till I started using waterbase. It will make that butternut pop. Good luck.

[Jim Matthews]

You're crazy.

It will work, and only you will know.
That makes it a secret kind of crazy.

I would use a set of wooden drawer slides under the bottom drawer.
They need to be mounted in parallel, and in line with the opening.

I've used the version shown here (http://www.thewoodworksinc.com/articles/drawer-slides-complex.php) as letter F.
I screw the smaller runner to the underside of the drawer
and apply double sided tape to the larger runner bottom.

Put the drawer, with glides attached into the opening and press down.
The double sided tape will hold the lower runner in place when you
pull the drawer out. Screw the lower runner in place.

I find these are easier to locate than the side hanging drawer mounts,
unless you have one of those handy right angle drill motors.

[Dennis Hawkins]

Ash is an awesome wood for drawer sides, very stable. However, ash is really hard and butternut is very soft. Sanding them smooth where they meet could be tricky.

To overcome this I intend to use proud dovetails instead of box joints for the drawers. I'll pillow the ash tails before glue-up then be very careful with squeeze out of the glue.

I hear you on the slide issue Dave. I can go either way at this point hence the reason I put out this thread.
Both approaches have there merit.
As for the cost of the hardware I see your point but the appox. $150.00 investment is not enough to persuade me not to use the under mounts for that reason alone.

[Dennis Hawkins]

You're crazy.

It will work, and only you will know.
That makes it a secret kind of crazy.

I would use a set of wooden drawer slides under the bottom drawer.
They need to be mounted in parallel, and in line with the opening.

This is also an option I was considering but if I do go the wood slide route I'm leaning more toward the side hung style even though I already have web frames incorporated in the piece.

[Dennis Hawkins]

Ahhh waterlox. Love it. I work mostly in Cherry and that was my primary finish till I started using waterbase. It will make that butternut pop. Good luck.

Keith
Yes I also love Waterlox except for the off gases. My wife really hates that stuff (basement shop in a small ranch home). Stinks up the place for days.

Can you tell me more about what you are using in a waterbase finish. I realize this would be off topic but I'm curious.

[Chris Friesen]

Can you tell me more about what you are using in a waterbase finish. I realize this would be off topic but I'm curious.

I'm not Keith, but I like Target EM2000. It's a waterborne alkyd varnish. I'm sure there are other good ones out there, I seem to remember tests in Fine Woodworking and Popular Woodworking.