Molding question

[Jim Lish]

277439277440Among other items, I got some molding at an auction some time ago and have a question about one group, like what wood it is and what it is intended for. Attached is a pic of the profile and a pic of part of the wood. The dimensions are 4 3/4" wide with the flat top 3 1/2" and the length 9 ft. I believe it to be maple but not certain. Any ideas?

[Brian Libby]

Looks like a maple threshold.

[John TenEyck]

I agree. I couldn't think of the right word - by golly, threshold, that's it. And definitely maple.

John

[david brum]

I can't help with the kind of moulding you've got, but the wood sure looks like big leaf maple. If it is, it would usually be quite a bit lighter in weight than hard maple, about like poplar. Nice stuff to work with. It grows everywhere in my area.

[Peter Quinn]

Looks like a maple "door saddle". Sorry to be a picky guy, but a threshold exists on an exterior door only, saddles are the transition between two rooms of equal elevation on the interior, reducers would divide two rooms at different elevations, or reduce from the higher to the lower elevation. I used to work with an archetectural history buff who beat these things into me. A threshold is a literal name, mid evil floors were not finished, but dirt floors like a barn, covered with "thresh", and the board that kept the rain out Nd the thresh in was called a......drum roll....threshold! Exciting no?

[Dave Zellers]

Looks like a maple "door saddle". Sorry to be a picky guy, but a threshold exists on an exterior door only, saddles are the transition between two rooms of equal elevation on the interior, reducers would divide two rooms at different elevations, or reduce from the higher to the lower elevation. I used to work with an archetectural history buff who beat these things into me. A threshold is a literal name, mid evil floors were not finished, but dirt floors like a barn, covered with "thresh", and the board that kept the rain out Nd the thresh in was called a......drum roll....threshold! Exciting no?
Yes! I love that stuff.

[Jeff Duncan]

Wait a minute….do people really still use "door saddles"? I thought those were a thing of the past and pretty much non-existant in modern homes:rolleyes:

JeffD

[Peter Quinn]

Wait a minute….do people really still use "door saddles"? I thought those were a thing of the past and pretty much non-existant in modern homes:rolleyes:

JeffD

Thats why he bought them cheap at auction! We still get occasional calls for them where I work. I guess it can ease a transition where floors change direction and things have been previously handled badly. Bandaid at best. Who thinks a speed bump between two rooms is a good idea? I know of whence I speak because my old clunky house has them between kitchen and dining room and hallway....to cover a badly botched kitchen floor transition. Some day I will most definetly eliminate them in a kitchen remodel. I can't imagine using these in new construction, and I'm sure they are at least frowned upon by the ADA folks. But so are many aspects of old homes. Perhaps they have a place in mo moderate construction levels where the floor goes from sheet vinyl to carpet or strip floor, and the saddle is a considerable upgrade from the gold colored aluminum tack strip?

[Larry Edgerton]

My new house has them, cause I like them...........

Larry

[Peter Quinn]

My new house has them, cause I like them...........

Larry


Foot now in mouth. Truth is visually its a very pleasing detail, its the actual rise that is a problem. They won't let you have more than 3/8" variance between rise in a stair case, but you can have a 3/4" bump in the floor between rooms? Different condition but still….Mostly now we see them specified as flush, with a small V on each side, so they will be jamb width or a bit more depending on how far off the wall the flooring is kept. It tells the brain you are leaving one room and entering another, but it doesn't allow the feet to get in trouble if the brain is in the off position as mine so often is.

[Art Mann]

If some sort of transition piece isn't used, how does one make an attractive transition between materials of significantly different thickness - hardwood to ceramic tile for example?

[Mark Bolton]

Sorry to be a picky guy

Hah! Good thing you called yourself on that one... While your definition clearly makes it correct, and information is always a great thing, in 20+ years in the trade, on any every day jobsite with a finish guy installing "thresholds" at transitions and you walk in and blurt that out your likely to get an egg mc muffin or a stale danish flying rapidly towards your facial region... ;-) Its like the ding-a-ling walking around the jobsite calling block a "CMU" or better yet not using the abbreviation. No mason we have ever had on a job will be nice enough to throw something as soft as an egg mc muffin <zowie>

Technically correct or not the world is not an issue of architectural digest.

All tongue in cheek,... great information.

[Dave Zellers]

My new house has them, cause I like them...........

Larry
Me too! One is functional between an oak floor and a vinyl floor with a 1/8" discrepancy and the other is under the double doors to the office. Putting a saddle there (it was a threshold when I built it) allows the doors to close with only a 1/8" gap at the bottom and still clear an area rug when opened.

But I make them myself and they are wider than the stock variety so you don't feel like you need to step over it, it's comfortable to step on it if necessary.

It could very well be that I like them because I see so many of them in stately old houses here in New England.

[Jim Lish]

Thanks guys for the answer. I also thought the wood might be big leaf maple. Now the question is what to do with all 8 of these 9 footers. The wood is too nice not to put to good use. One option is to rip the 3/4" chamfer off of each side and end up with eight 1" x 3 1/2" x 9' pieces of very nice big leaf maple not quite 3/4" thick.

[Brian Libby]

Peter Quinn - that is interesting info. I just restored our 1800's farm house and most all of the rooms have thresholds or I guess now I should say saddles!!

[John M Wilson]

As long as we're being picky,


...A threshold is a literal name, mid evil floors were not finished,...

Medieval is the term you were looking for, from the Latin "medium aevum", or middle ages :D

It's amazing to me all the different things that come up on a woodworking site (and I love it).

[Mel Fulks]

Dave,that is a good point. Lack of central heat and maybe mice etc.could be old reasons,too.

[Dave Zellers]

Mice. I love it. So obvious. Heck, we even had a battle with mice a few years ago but it didn't last long, our cat thought she had died and gone to heaven. Battle over.

When woodworking threads venture into old home construction stories that's when the history comes out.

I was working in a house built around 1850 and noticed remnants of paper stuck to the roof sheathing boards and gable boards in an attic space. The owners explained to me that at that time, that attic space would have been rented out to a young person just starting out in life. It was accessible only by a ladder through a 2 foot by 2 foot hole in the ceiling of the kitchen. The paper was leftover wallpaper roll ends applied to the boards to block the cold Cape Cod wind. No heat, no stairs, no plumbing or electricity, but this tiny space was home for a young man as he struggled to get ahead. Man, the stories an old house can tell.

[Peter Quinn]

Hah! Good thing you called yourself on that one... While your definition clearly makes it correct, and information is always a great thing, in 20+ years in the trade, on any every day jobsite with a finish guy installing "thresholds" at transitions and you walk in and blurt that out your likely to get an egg mc muffin or a stale danish flying rapidly towards your facial region... ;-) Its like the ding-a-ling walking around the jobsite calling block a "CMU" or better yet not using the abbreviation. No mason we have ever had on a job will be nice enough to throw something as soft as an egg mc muffin <zowie>

Technically correct or not the world is not an issue of architectural digest.

All tongue in cheek,... great information.

I've been the reciepent of a number of chucked items over the years. Earliest I can remember was my grandfather at age 7 chucking a pipe wrench that hit me square between the shoulder blades...guess I had fetched the wrong wrench? He wasn't the warm fuzzy type grampa, but he tought us to be specific. I can remember an akward conversation with a contractor who was trying to order window "stools", he kept calling them sills...I kept playing dumb.....I finally said as if a revelation had happened "oh, it's stools you want..." We argued, I've been doing this for "add a large number of years here" he says, I say "how many years do you have to be wrong before you become right?" Good times.

If you google threshold, you will see plenty of saddles, thresholds, and reducers all being called thresholds. Lots of vendors just call everything thresholds, I guess they think their customers are to dumb to handle the complexity of remembering 3 distinct names?

Another solid arguement has been made for the door saddle, in an old house the floors often become less than level, and if the door swings to the high side you need to cut rhe door bottom so it will swing, the saddle closes that gap.

[Jeff Duncan]

Another solid arguement has been made for the door saddle, in an old house the floors often become less than level, and if the door swings to the high side you need to cut rhe door bottom so it will swing, the saddle closes that gap.

Hmmmm, but that doesn't explain why one would use them in new construction…….just opening the door for ya:D

FWIW the question was raised how to deal with transitions between different materials. It's fairly easy these days as "good" contractors will ensure the materials all come out pretty much the same height. Hardwood meeting tiles is common. Vinyl…..yeah not so much:rolleyes: I don't really see vinyl in new construction and haven't in a long time. It's used more to freshen up old homes on a tight budget. In cases where there is a height issue it's usually handled by much smaller transition pieces that do not rise above the higher material, but meet with it flush. Or if your transitioning say wood directions between different rooms, that's usually handled by a flush transition piece vs a raised saddle. The one exception is bathrooms, I still see marble or stone saddles used in bathrooms from time to time. In cases where a door opens to a room with a tall carpet it's more usual to trim the door bottom. I guess this is really personal preference, but most of the time people don't want to add saddles to an otherwise flush floor.

But hey, that doesn't mean if someone just likes the look of a wood threshold/saddle they shouldn't use it…..different strokes for different folks;)

good luck,
Jeffd

[Ethan Melad]

If some sort of transition piece isn't used, how does one make an attractive transition between materials of significantly different thickness - hardwood to ceramic tile for example?

in our house we used Schluter edging, both at slate-to-hardwood transitions and as detail at tiled corners.
this image is not the same size we used, but basically the same profile. its a nice subtle detail rather than a very obvious one like a door saddle :cool:.

277541

[Mel Fulks]

Going back to the heat thing from a modern central heat consideration , we just visited grandchildren et al at their new military base home .All the doors are way short ,at least 1 and 5/8 inches above floor. I'm betting it was spect out to be that way.

[Mark Bolton]

Jeff,
A contractor being "good" or not often times has no bearing on flush transitions. I think it comes more so down to budget on a given project. I have for instance had customers who may want a fairly high priced inlaid product like Tarket yet they don't want the cost of an additional layer of subfloor to flush the inlaid with say hardwood or tile. When presented with the costs of both options they will say "we are fine with a threshold".

Absolutely agreed that zero barrier is a great thing to strive for but it's a premium detail for a reason and that's because it costs more.

I wish every project I was involved with was high end, and I would say most are close, but the ones that aren't have to get details in keeping with the budget.

I too like the look of a flush transition as opposed to say running hardwood straight up to tile or carpet. I feel it delineates and defines the spaces. Whether that be in an open area or at a doorway. We do it a lot but I tend to not like simply breaking the two floor materials directly under the door slab.

[Mark Bolton]

I've been the reciepent of a number of chucked items over the years. Earliest I can remember was my grandfather at age 7 chucking a pipe wrench that hit me square between the shoulder blades...guess I had fetched the wrong wrench? He wasn't the warm fuzzy type grampa, but he tought us to be specific. I can remember an akward conversation with a contractor who was trying to order window "stools", he kept calling them sills...I kept playing dumb.....I finally said as if a revelation had happened "oh, it's stools you want..." We argued, I've been doing this for "add a large number of years here" he says, I say "how many years do you have to be wrong before you become right?" Good times.

If you google threshold, you will see plenty of saddles, thresholds, and reducers all being called thresholds. Lots of vendors just call everything thresholds, I guess they think their customers are to dumb to handle the complexity of remembering 3 distinct names?

Another solid arguement has been made for the door saddle, in an old house the floors often become less than level, and if the door swings to the high side you need to cut rhe door bottom so it will swing, the saddle closes that gap.

Peter,
I apprenticed in the trade in the exact same manner. It was nothing on a given day to have any number of things thrown at you including every name in the book.

It's not a great thing in my opinion and I very easily broke that chain but that said I do see clearly how it motivates an individual to avoid mistakes and learn as quickly as possible. I today's world of pampered lessons the learning curve is much much slower but I just don't have it in me to be nasty and screaming all day.

[Mel Fulks]

Yeah, Mark . I agree . Especially when some fairly uniform material like wood is adjascent to something more random ,like some stone or brick. Most prefer a well defined border neatly scribed and no higher than necessary .

[Rick Potter]

So, here I am sitting at the computer next to a double French door that goes out to a former outside patio, which is now enclosed, and used as what some would call a Sun room. The French door has a nice oak thingie that goes between the tile floor in the patio room, and the carpet in the family room. Had to make it because the contractor could not find one (?).

Thus the question.....Is my board a threshold, or a saddle? :rolleyes:

Rick Potter

[Mel Fulks]

Rick,we don't want to be saddled with that question as it does not reach a high enough technical threshold . Probably because you did a good job scribing it.

[Mark Bolton]

Rick,we don't want to be saddled with that question as it does not reach a high enough technical threshold . Probably because you did a good job scribing it.

Now that was a good one Mel..

[Mark Woodmark]

Looks like a maple "door saddle". Sorry to be a picky guy, but a threshold exists on an exterior door only, saddles are the transition between two rooms of equal elevation on the interior, reducers would divide two rooms at different elevations, or reduce from the higher to the lower elevation. I used to work with an archetectural history buff who beat these things into me. A threshold is a literal name, mid evil floors were not finished, but dirt floors like a barn, covered with "thresh", and the board that kept the rain out Nd the thresh in was called a......drum roll....threshold! Exciting no?

I wonder if it could be birch? The businesses who sell doors (prehung or just slabs) in my neck of the woods call this a return. I have never heard the term saddle

[Larry Edgerton]

Going back to the heat thing from a modern central heat consideration , we just visited grandchildren et al at their new military base home .All the doors are way short ,at least 1 and 5/8 inches above floor. I'm betting it was spect out to be that way.

That may have more to do with the heating system. It is not uncommon in budget housing projects to not put a return air in all the rooms, just a central return with large gaps at the doors. I learned this the hard way when I replaced all the doors in a BOCA, and ran them down tight as I normally do to avoid sound transfer. Customer called and complained that the heat did not work in the bedrooms. Baffled, because I could not see how me replacing doors could affect the heat I had my buddy come along that is a HVAC contractor.

I cut all the doors, and never worked on a modular again..........

Larry

[Larry Edgerton]

Another reason for a saddle is when you have a large real hardwood floor you need to leave room for it to move. This is one reason I have them in my house, the other is it is a detail of old homes I always liked. Quirky, and I don't give a rats pituti about barrier free, its my house. I used one at the airlock entry that allows a rug on the heated side, 3/4 high, haven't tripped on it yet.

But hey, I'm building a schoolhouse so I may be strange anyway.......

Larry

[Mel Fulks]

Larry ,thanks for commenting , that could be the case . But we all know the government can come up with unusual specs .Its about 2200 square feet. Didn't notice if it had a return ,but heat was even . Will check next trip.

[Peter Quinn]

So, here I am sitting at the computer next to a double French door that goes out to a former outside patio, which is now enclosed, and used as what some would call a Sun room. The French door has a nice oak thingie that goes between the tile floor in the patio room, and the carpet in the family room. Had to make it because the contractor could not find one (?).

Thus the question.....Is my board a threshold, or a saddle? :rolleyes:

Rick Potter

If the high side is to the inside, and it slopes to what would be the outside to theoretically shed water, I'm calling it a threshold. Maybe. Lots of exceptions I'd imagine. If the need to shed water is eliminated, it may simply be a reducer. I got a call from my congresswomen this evening during dinner asking for suggestions for her agenda in Washington. Perhaps I'll phone her office and lobby her to take up the cause of creating an architectural naming standards board on a national level. None of this regional variation or colloquial application of random terms. How can we expect a smooth and fluid economic flow of goods and services across our many states if we can't agree on language that insures we are discussing the same thing? Its about time somebody championed this long under represented cause in our nations capitol. She was blabbing in a computer recording about helping the elderly, children, schools, job creation, and thats all well and good, but can she really justify those things at the expense of the minutia of architectural millwork terms? Perhaps the reason our home building is so slow to bounce back is that everybody has forgot the terms?:rolleyes: Oops….carbon monoxide detector going off…I need to get more oxygen quick….


I guess its pretty important not to take this stuff too seriously, and keep an open mind, seems there are some many conditions that require different bits of wood to satisfy the work. I will say that as somebody that has to make some odd custom bits of millwork, its nice to have a language that is specific to the conditions being addressed. If the boss says "I need you to make a threshold" I have a pretty clear idea what the basic shape will be even before I see the drawings. A saddle sends me in another direction, a reducer another still. Maybe its better just to call them "those bottom of the door jamb thingys and wait for the picture to tell the rest of the story?