used price question powermatic 18" 5hp planer 1980s vintage

[Jerry Toschlog]

First let me say I am in the very beginning stages at checking out this deal, assuming it even is a "deal". I just talked to a elderly guy who has a powermatic 18" 5hp planer 1980s vintage. My gut feeling is it is a 180 model but not 100% sure. It has the blade sharpener on it, he also is including a pallet jack with it as he has it up and sitting on something he made so he can use the pallet jack to move it around his shop. I have yet to see it but he states its in very clean not beat up, " you will be impressed when you see it " he said. He is the 2nd owner no issues, him and first owner used it little. His ASKING price is $1,900 and since I have not even seen it I have not tried to get him down at this point since I am still researching the value. I have looked at new and see I can get a Powermatic 1791296 Model 209 for $2850.00.Question is, am I comparing apples to apples? Any input on this would be helpful.

Thanks Jerry

[David Kumm]

A good PM 180 with a grinder is way better. Condition is everything but if as nice as the owner says it is worth the price. If buying new you would need to spend about 6-7K to get in the same league. Assume it will be three phase. you can dicker a little but I'm not into beating up old men ( I am one ) when their price is fair. Dave

[Jerry Toschlog]

Dave, Thanks for the info, I am not sure I really NEED it but it is one of those it would be cool to have kind of things. ....... Still looking for anyone else who wants to chime in

[David Kumm]

Jerry, the only thing I know of to watch for - I'm not a PM guy - would be the few years PM was bought by Houdaille. They moved the casting to Taiwan and there should be a badge that gives you the info. The OWWM.org guys will know the time frame and serial numbers. Dave

[Michael Mahan]

make sure everything is square & flat
I like the idea of a pallet jack to move machines around a shop
those pallet jacks are Very Useful

[mark kosse]

Jerry, the only thing I know of to watch for - I'm not a PM guy - would be the few years PM was bought by Houdaille. They moved the casting to Taiwan and there should be a badge that gives you the info. The OWWM.org guys will know the time frame and serial numbers. Dave

You mean the 60's, 70's and 80's? Houdaille certainly doesn't mean Asian made. As far as the original question, 1900 would be high side to me. I see a lot of 180's go for 12-1500 and at auction the can go for much less. If it's super nice running or restored condition it would be fair. It's a fine machine but like any planer it needs tuned to keep it in top shape. I used to have one but now have a 224. Either one is a bear to move.

[Mike Heidrick]

No they are not apples to apples, that is plankton to tungsten. If a PM180 was blown up by an atom bomb, and then what was left was disassembled by Chuck Norris, the remainder would still be better than a 209anything. That includes the Tiawan PM180.

That blade sharpener is worth more than the value of a 209 (not cost).

4 post planers are geetech dime a dozen - pick a color. HH gives you a byrd which you can add to them all. If you are buying a 209, buy grizzly. Heck get the used $600 one that was for sale here or on woodnet.

[David Kumm]

Houdaille gets blamed for many PM problems so my statement was too general. I believe they didn't send the casting work overseas until about 1990. The machine will say Taiwan if so and the grade of cast iron on those wasn't nearly as good as the Mehanite casting made here. If the head is the "quiet head" with lots of short knives the price really drops but I doubt that is the case with the grinder. Yes, I've seen them cheaper but condition is a big deal as PM planers tended to be heavy use machines unless in a school and ridden hard. While 1900 may be on the higher end you can't find comparable new for 2-3 times that. An Oliver 399 will often go for 3K with a grinder. If close enough to see and haul and you feel warm and fuzzy about the seller, it is worth at least $500 more than sight unseen models. Dave

[Mike Heidrick]

They have Meehanite casting franchises in Tiawan and other countries as well besides the US. Are you sure the Meehanite castings for this planer were only made in the US?

[Jerry Toschlog]

have not see it yet but will this weekend ....... ..... I do like the idea of the pallet jack.

[David Kumm]

They have Meehanite casting franchises in Tiawan and other countries as well besides the US. Are you sure the Meehanite castings for this planer were only made in the US?

Mike, I'm dealing from memory here which is always marginal, but I know I read over on OWWM once that the Taiwan casting was either spec'd or tested out and the grading number- I'm clueless as to the way Meehanite is rated- was much lower. The info is probably buried over on the owwm.org site. I don't know how that effects the value as I'm not into PM so while not a deal breaker, something to look for. QC wasn't the greatest in comparison to what can come from there today. Dave

I looked it up, turns out it was me who originally asked the question. The PM 180 for just a short time had castings sourced from Taiwan. Grading was 14 vs 35 for the US castings. Don't what that means.

[Mike Heidrick]

Thanks David.

For the right money and if you can lift one it is a crazy awesome machine.

I am all set with a DC580 though so I wont change out but I looked at a 20" 201 (I think that was the #) in OH before finding the DC580 that was delivered to IL new.

[David Kumm]

Mike, I just took the cutter head out of a 299 and replaced bearings. The 180 seems small tonight as everything attached to me hurts. Dave

[John Downey]

If I had the money and needed the machine, I wouldn't sweat that price at all. If you've need of a planer that big, you'll never regret buying it if it's in nice condition. No point in comparing it to 4-post imports, compare it to a Northfield #2 if you want apples to apples - I don't think the PM180 is quite what a #2 is, but it's probably the closest machine that is still purported to be in production.

How are you going to move it? A big part of the reason that machines like these sell for so little ($2k is little) is that they can be a bit tricky to move :D The only big no-no that I'm aware of is lifting the weight of the machine from the bed, either on a sling or with a forklift - the jack screws can't take 1500# worth of tension.

[Jeff Duncan]

The older Powermatics were/are good planers. The pricing is very hard to compare and I don't feel his asking price is bad at all. You absolutely can find cheaper ones at auction, but the ones I've seen were driven hard and put away wet. Not the kind of machine you can take home plug in and start using. You can easily drop several hundred or more into fixing up an older machine. Being able to buy one plug and play at least IMO warrants a premium price.

Having said that your comment on not really needing it says that it might not be the best planer for you? If your a hobby guy who maybe planes a handful of boards a week this may or may not be too much planer? For one thing your going to have to learn how to grind your knives in the head. If it's three phase your also going to have to deal with that. For someone doing the occasional planing the lighter duty import machines with the carbide insert heads are pretty appealing. I'm not trying to steer you one way vs the other, just that buying a planer on the basis that it's "nice to have" may not be the best investment??? Just something to think about;)

good luck,
JeffD

[Gregory Stahl]

I would check three things before buying.

First, don't buy a direct drive machine unless you get it for half price and really want the machine. Cutter heads cost significantly more for this method if you need to repair or upgrade. If the motor is mounted low with a belt drive-you are good.

Second, I would make certain the in-feed table isn't dished. This is common on heavily used machines--scratches and shallow grooves are common and don't interfere with operation. There are so many of these out there I would wait for one with flat tables and less wear than take a dished machine.

And finally, if it is a later yellow machine, check the tags to make certain it doesn't say made in Taiwan.

One more option is segmented roller which is a plus but not a deal breaker.

Stick a Byrd in this planer and you will be impressed with how quiet it is!

Best,
Greg Stahl

[David Kumm]

A friend of mine in WI has a 1970 version with a grinder for sale for $1500. Nathan is a good guy if that makes any sense ( don't know where you are ). Belt drive although I'm fine with DD on old machines. I would not swap a head on a machine with a built in grinder. Once you learn how to grind the knives you will get a great finish. Check BOYD on owwm.org. Dave

[Jerry Toschlog]

Thanks for all the replies to this post........ The planer is just a few miles away, so I will at least look at it. Jeff D I fully understand what you are saying and agree, I keep asking myself do I really need it as I have a DEWALT lunchbox now that is doing me fine............ I am at least going to go look at it, plus he has a few other items, including wood.

[Jeff Duncan]

I am at least going to go look at it, plus he has a few other items, including wood.

Ahhhh….famous last words uttered right before he steps onto the slope……happy sliding:D

JeffD

[Jerry Toschlog]

Help, I've fallen and I can't get up! Ok, I slipped, using Jeff's term........
I have agreed to purchase it for $1500.00, due to weather will be awhile before I can get it moved. Found a guy (I know him but did not know he did this) who has a skid loader with forks and no issue with 1300lbs, he moved a grizzly few months ago. Moving cost will be 100 bucks!
Pics will come once its here...

Jerry

[Bruce Page]

Congrats! That is a great price.

[Keith Bohn]

In 1984 the No. 180 retailed for $3880. That was without the grinder, motor, motor control and sectional feed rolls.

Today that planer would retail for around $8700 for matching build quality.

[Guy Belleman]

Hope it works out. Post pictures when you can.

[Jeff Duncan]

. Found a guy (I know him but did not know he did this) who has a skid loader with forks and no issue with 1300lbs, he moved a grizzly few months ago. Moving cost will be 100 bucks!
Pics will come once its here...

Jerry

Price for the planer is OK, but the cost for moving is definitely worthy of a "You Suck"! Around here you'd pay $100 just to get it loaded onto your truck:o

good luck,
JeffD

[Charles Coolidge]

Here's a PM180 for sale near me for $1,150

http://images.craigslist.org/00c0c_i7w3q37BFet_600x450.jpg

Why do people have to slop ugly paint on stuff :mad:

http://images.craigslist.org/00C0C_5UmEyCTqvCT_600x450.jpg

[Rich Riddle]

Keith Bohn already told you the price for a new machine of similar quality. If you go to his site, OWWM, you can find everything you ever need about Powermatic machines needed help. Plan on rebuilding it with new bearings and other parts. After doing that, you will never have to work on it again. It's one big machine.

[Keith Bohn]

Why do people have to slop ugly paint on stuff

Yeah, Powermatic made great machines, but their paint jobs left a little to be desired.