Shoutout for the Veritas SBUS

[Chris Griggs]

Hey all,

I don't post a lot of reviews (okay maybe like once or twice a year), but I just wanted to post a quick thread to say how much I love my newest tool acquisition. I purchased a Small Bevel Up Smoother recently as part of LVs Cyber Monday sale, and have been using it a good bit over the past couple weeks on the storage bench/window seat I've been building.

This tool has been on the market for a couple years now and it is one of those tools I had looked at with interest from the day it came out, but had never been sure I wanted. Those of you who have been around here for the BU/BD discussions know that I typically plump down for BD planes and the genius invention that is the chipbreaker, and this preference made me a little hesitant to buy this plane. But I must say, despite its backward blade orientation ;), I have absolutely fallen in love with this plane as my go to trimming, basic smoothing, at the bench for whatever plane.

The thing is, I have always really loved No. 3s, but I have never loved the way my knuckles jam into the spin wheel and I really don't like holding them around the outside of the handle like a wooden plane as is often recommend. Well the SBUS is everything I love about a No.3 but much much more comfortable to use, as the lack of frog totally eliminates any hand clearance issues. On top of that, unlike on most BU planes, this plane has a place to point your finger when you hold it with a 3-finger grip, and while that may seem like small potatoes, its one of those little things that if you prefer a 3-fingered grip really takes this tool one you'll reach for time and time again...to me that simple detail gives it my vote for the best designed BU plane on the market (of course, it has all the other nice LV quality, features and performance which doesn't hurt either).

One minute I'll be using it to put the final finish on a full workpiece, the next I'm removing a spot of tearout in some weird localized area, the next I'm bringing small parts or shims down to final thickness, the next I'm trimming end grain and chamfering corners while gripping it around the body in front of the handle like block plane, then the next minute I'll have it one its side on a shooting board. All this with all one blade that I've been keeping honed at 38 degrees for a 50 degree included angle.

While I will always love a classic No. 4 as a go to dedicated finish smoother, this plane has rapidly become an all time favorite. Its got the handiness factor of a block plane with the capabilities of a bench plane. If your one of those folks who find regular block planes underwhelming, or if you happen to love No. 3s but have the same knuckle clearance issues as me, or if you've been thinking a small finish smoother might be nice to have, or if you just want a nice general use/multipurpose plane to keep out at the bench then I highly recommend this tool to you. It might not make you a better woodworker, but it sure is nice to have around for a whole lot of tasks!

Anyway I'm not going to go into any technical details about it or anything like that as Derek already has that covered: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/TheVeritasSmallBUSmoother.html

I just wanted to post my experience with it as its a plane that, other than Derek's review, I hadn't seen much about, wasn't that sure I wanted, and honestly, probably wouldn't have purchased if it hadn't popped up steeply discounted on Cyber Monday...I'm sure glad I did though, and if something happened to it I would by it again at full price in a heart beat. I can honestly tell you that I think its one of the best planes Veritas has ever made...right up there with my all time favorite the small plow (with which it just happens to share a very comfortable tote)

[Note: While I have on occasion had the opportunity to test products for Lee Valley/Veritas this plane came to me courtesy of my wallet, albeit at a nice Cyber Monday discount]

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I have all the planes in the Veritas bevel up series and they are all excellent. I hate to admit it, but the bevel down's have been quite neglected lately. My first Bevel Up was the low-angle jack, and they just kept coming after that. The shooting plane is a pure joy to hold and behold. Hard to pick a favorite. LOVE the jointer, especially because it has a fence (optional). The fence just makes sense for a jointer. Could you imagine a powered jointer without one?

Anyway, it's to the point where I am rearranging my plane storage, moving the bevel downs to the harder to reach storage and the bevel up's to my most-used, easy-to-grab storage.

[Kees Heiden]

Is it made of wood? Nah, can't be worth much.





:p

[Chris Griggs]

Is it made of wood? Nah, can't be worth much.






:p

The tote and knob are. Does that work for you:D?

[roger m lance]

Chris....thanks for the review.....its good to have more people making tool reviews than just our friend in OZ.....and I'm sure Derek appreciates that others have a different perspective/experience level.....I did buy the line of LV BUs.....but I'm relatively new to fine handtools and have limited experience against which I can offer an informed opinion.....but know that I'm a happy camper with these planes!

[Kees Heiden]

Let me not hijack your thread. ;)

[Jim Koepke]

It might not make you a better woodworker, but it sure is nice to have around for a whole lot of tasks!

Darn, none of my tools have done that for me.

So have you found the flaw?

jtk

[Tom Millington]

My favorite feature of the SBUS is the captive Norris adjuster. I wish the other planes in the series had the same arragement.

[Chris Griggs]

I hope this review is helpful to those on the fence about this or any other small smoother.

I brought up the BU/BD thing just to sorta put things in context with my general preference/bias. My point here isn't really to continue to beat the long dead BU vs BD horse. I have no intention of abandoning either variety of plane any more than I intend to stop using both oil and waterstones. I guess what I want to emphasize is simply that I have found this to be a particularly well designed well executed tool even among the many other well designed well executed tools in my shop and generally available.

I've known several people like myself who have issues with knuckle clearance in small smoothers but otherwise love them. In this case the fact the the plane is BU gets it around any clearance issues. At the end of the day I just have found this to be a particularly nice planes to have and use, which makes me not care whether its BU or BD....I guess that's what I like so much about it, its so well designed that I don't pay notice or pay attention to the fact that I'm using one type of plane or the other.

Anyway, this thread can go where it will...Hijack away Kees and others :). I've hijacked many threads in my day and in my opinion some of the most interesting convo's come out of threads that go off tangent.

[Chris Griggs]

Darn, none of my tools have done that for me.

So have you found the flaw?

jtk

Yeah, they haven't done that for me either. I was hoping this one would...guess I just need to keep buying more in the hopes that one will.

The flaw? You mean because its a cosmetic second. Nope couldn't find the flaw in this one. I own several "seconds" and I managed to find the flaw in two of them. My little victor had the most noticeable one...a tiny pin head size black pit in the sole....tiny, but visible. My medium shoulder I also found the flaw. It was similar but it was even smaller.....just a little black spec, not even a pit...looked like a tiny piece of dust on the surface. If I hadn't known what to look for I would have never found it. I for the life of me could find nothing on any of the other seconds I own. The standards for what makes something a second are unbelievable strict. The scratches you put on the sole the first time you use the plane are worse than anything that makes it a second.

[David Weaver]

I wonder if they have some testing machine for the casting that can discern if there is a tiny void in the casting somewhere, one that obviously would never matter.

Or maybe it's out of spec for length or width or some other thing that you'll (and nobody else will, either) never care about.

Each time you add a premium plane, I dump one. I suppose I'll figure out which one it will be.

[Chris Griggs]

I wonder if they have some testing machine for the casting that can discern if there is a tiny void in the casting somewhere, one that obviously would never matter.

Or maybe it's out of spec for length or width or some other thing that you'll (and nobody else will, either) never care about.

Each time you add a premium plane, I dump one. I suppose I'll figure out which one it will be.

Well,you only have a couple left. Just let me know before you sell your No 7 or large shoulder.

Who knows maybe in a couple years I'll start selling off my premium planes too....but probably not.

As far as seconds go, my understanding is that, generally speaking castings can and will form tiny bubbles, and basically the more machining a plane has the more likely it is to be a second, because a bubble is more likely to be exposed. The two I found were definitely the remnants of bubbles. I've never been told anything about sizes being out of spec, but it wouldn't surprise me if that happens too...perhaps in grinding out a bubble? I have no idea if there is any way to detect a bubble other than if one happens to get exposed.

Anyway, of the 5 "seconds" I have this is the biggest "flaw" I have found...ironically on my smallest plane with the least machining. I can no longer find the one that I could just barely pick out on my medium shoulder plane when it was brand new.

277346

[Frederick Skelly]

Very helpful review Chris. Thanks!
Fred

[Curt Putnam]

It is sweet, isn't it. As with you I have all the LV BU planes except one (the # 4 sized one that can be used as a shooter). Also a relatively complete fleet of Stanleys (3, 2 4s, 2 5s, 2 6s and an 8). My wife bought me an LN Bronze # 4 for last year's Christmas. Since it has a 55° frog it will mostly only get hauled out for the final, final finish passes or maybe the curly maple project I've got coming up.

The LN tote is way small for my hand, the Stanleys are too small, but the LVs are delightful. My hand measures 4.25" (as one would for a saw) so that probably accounts for why most folks like Stanleys and LNs and I don't (totes I mean.) Just looking at the LN warms my heart, but in terms of making shavings, every one of them does the job.

Of course, I'm working on some African Mahogany now for which I cannot even get a scraper to work. Quite sure it's me and not the tools.

Thanks for your write up.

[Chris Griggs]

I meant to ask...those who have the SBUS and any one or more of the other LV BU planes, have you noticed the depth and lateral adjustments on the SBUS to be a little smoother and more precise than on the other planes. I don't have any issues with the adjuster with my LA Jack or LABP, and I'm careful not to crank down my lever caps, but on both those if the adjustments are a little tighter feeling and not quite as easy to dial in as on the SBUS. Even Veritas recommends dialing in the lateral adjustment with hammer taps on their BU planes (I have no issue with doing this and often use a brass mallet on both my LA Jack, LA block, and on my Bailey planes if I really need to dial things in), BUT on the SBUS for whatever reason (and maybe its just slight individual differences in planes) both the depth and lateral adjustments are always super smooth, easy to move, and dial in by hand even if I over tighten the lever cap.

I have no idea why this is, perhaps they just setup the geometry in the lever cap so it's harder to over tighten or something, but the adjustments on my SBUS are definitely some of the nicest I've used, even compared to other premium planes.

Has anyone else noticed this or is it just in my head?

[David Weaver]

Anyway, of the 5 "seconds" I have this is the biggest "flaw" I have found...ironically on my smallest plane with the least machining. I can no longer find the one that I could just barely pick out on my medium shoulder plane when it was brand new.

277346

If they sold me that as first quality, I wouldn't even care. I'm sure there are ways to find unexposed tiny voids in castings, but I am also sure that those kinds of things, especially hidden, make no difference in practical strength of the plane.

[Prashun Patel]

I have the SBUS and the LA Jack.

I haven't noticed a difference. Maybe your older planes just need their nuts dusted... :o

[Chris Griggs]

I'm sure there are ways to unexposed tiny voids in castings

Actually, that just reminded me, I once saw a demonstration in the Drexel Engineering department where they showed machines that did just that. I don't remember if it used electrical impulses or some type of sonic resonance but IIRC it created a 3d translucent image (or something like that) of whatever the thing being scanned was. I think they just had a random piece of metal with some voids in it, and the scanner picked up everyone of them. It was really cool. These weren't like crazy esoteric experimental machines either, my understanding was that they were pretty standard in certain branches of the manufacturing industry.

[Chris Griggs]

I have the SBUS and the LA Jack.

I haven't noticed a difference. Maybe your older planes just need their nuts dusted... :o

Haha! Could be that, or maybe in need of some lubrication.:)

Might just be individual differences too...or maybe its just in my head.

[Curt Putnam]

All I've noticed is that ease of adjustment is pretty much driven by how much the lever cap is torqued.

[Chris Griggs]

All I've noticed is that ease of adjustment is pretty much driven by how much the lever cap is torqued.

Probably is a tensioning thing, I'm just not sure why. I try to use as minimal tension as I can get away with on all my planes (as well as my bandsaw)

For my BUs that means just barely snugging up and then giving a good 1/4 to 1/2 turn, Maybe there is just something about how I'm holding the plane when I tension the cap down that is making me tension it less. OR maybe the screw the the cap wedges against is in a grossly different position and perhaps that is effecting the feel of things when I'm tightening the cap down..maybe I'll turn that in and out just to see what happens. This is just total curiosity, its not that I have any issues with any of those planes, its more like there is a feeling that I'm much less likely to apply slightly to much tension to the small one...for whatever reason the adjustments always feel just a little smoother and freer, even when I think I'm putting the same tension on the different planes. Could also just be that I can get away with less tension on the smoother since its generally taking thinner shavings. Still though, I have a pretty consistent habit on my LA Block, LA Jack, and now SBUS of tightening to just snug and then giving a little more so I don't know how or why I would be tensioning them different. Again, just kinda something nice I noticed and was curious about, doesn't really matter in the least.

[Mike Holbrook]

Apparently LV/Veritas did some refining of this plane after our poster from Oz's review. They replaced a set screw for holding the adjustable mouth in place with the same thumb/finger screw the larger planes use. They also added the brass washer that the larger planes have. Knowing Derek it is certainly possible he had a pre production model though. I notice the SBUS comes with the 25 degree blade and the BUS comes with a 38 degree blade.

Yes, thanks for the review Chris, couldn't you have waited until I got my new BUS all ready for use though before you started talking me into a SBUS?

[Chris Griggs]

Apparently LV/Veritas did some refining of this plane after our poster from Oz's review. They replaced a set screw for holding the adjustable mouth in place with the same thumb/finger screw the larger planes use. They also added the brass washer that the larger planes have. Knowing Derek it is certainly possible he had a pre production model though. I notice the SBUS comes with the 25 degree blade and the BUS comes with a 38 degree blade.

Yes, thanks for the review Chris, couldn't you have waited until I got my new BUS all ready for use though before you started talking me into a SBUS?

Yeah, I noticed that too. I think they were worthwhile upgrades. And no I couldn't have waited. The BUS is a very nice plane and all but SBUS is something extra special...just slightly more evolved IMHO.

I would imagine they send the SBUS with a 25 degree blade because its a plane that's more likely to be used in diverse scenarios. The BUS is just a smoother, and the 50 degrees (resultant from the 38 degree blade) is a nice all purpose smoothing angle for a single iron in North American woods. The SBUS can be used as a shooter, and also its size, shape, and weight make it more suited as sorta a general purpose trimming plane...sorta like a beefed up block plane, so it makes sense that they would sell it with a low angle. I imagine that most people are honing with guides using secondary bevels anyway, so in that case its better to have a low primary angle that can be raised to whatever you want with a secondary. Anyway, I did end up setting it up with 38 degree bevel for a 50 degree included angle as I found that to be a nice compromise for planing most long grain without tearout and with a shiny finish but still totally fine for end grain. I messed with it at a 25 degree angle (37 included) but was using it on long grain enough so I opted to raise it. I also messed with it at a 43 degree angle for an included angle of 55 degrees, which in truth still work fine all around (even end grain...especially if skewing the pane), but seemed unnecessarily high for most of what I was using it for so I dropped it back down 5 degrees. I am quite happy with the 50 degree included angle I landed on but if I do end up using it to finish smooth more tearout prone woulds it's easy enough to add the 5 degrees back in when needed.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Mike - I was not the only voice providing feedback, and others also commented on the absence of the depth stop screw and brass washer. Clearly, LV listen to advice, and responded.

Hi Chris - you will see in the review of the SBUS that it can be adjusted on the fly. Actually, I can do this with all the BU planes - most users tend to over-tighten the lever cap. It just needs to be snug. With the exception of the SBUS, this is not a one-handed operation, as with the Baileys.

The 25 degree bevel? Well, simply, it is easier to add a higher angle via a secondary bevel. It is also easier to add a high secondary bevel with camber to a 25 degree bevel than directly to a 38- or 50 degree primary.

Regards from Perth

Derek (who has closed the practice for the year and looking forward to windsurfing in the sun and building a chair over the next few weeks :) )

[Chris Griggs]

Hi Chris - you will see in the review of the SBUS that it can be adjusted on the fly. Actually, I can do this with all the BU planes - most users tend to over-tighten the lever cap. It just needs to be snug. With the exception of the SBUS, this is not a one-handed operation, as with the Baileys.


Yes, think you misread something...no issues with adjusting on the fly. Its late night in Oz right now, i know :).

I was just saying that for whatever reason, my SBUS adjusts a little smoother and easier than my LA jack when both seem to be under the same tension. I adjust the LA jack on the fly too, but the for whatever reason everything moves a little easier on the SBUS. I was wondering if anyone else had experienced this slight difference just because I was curious if LV had done any refining of the adjustments.

What I'm convinced is actually happening is just than when I tighten down the caps by feel equally (just snug plus a little more) I actually end up tightening down the SBUS very slightly less which resulted in my perception of smoother adjustment.

I agree, if one cannot adjust any of the LV BU bench or block planes on the fly they are over tightening the caps. I tighten down as minimally as is needed.

[Derek Cohen]

Heh .. apologies Chris. You're right - late Friday night. Looking forward to a l-o-n-g weekend.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Chris Griggs]

Heh .. apologies Chris. You're right - late Friday night. Looking forward to a l-o-n-g weekend.

Regards from Perth

Derek

All good Derek. Enjoy your Friday night! And remember, don't mix alcohol with Ebay!:)