Working with thin stock

[Daniel Rode]

I've been working on jewelry boxes over the last couple of months. One of the areas I've struggled with is how to plane thin stock, especially 1/4" and less. I have a Sjoberg workbench with a side and end vice. Using the end vice and 1 set of dog holes typically racks the vice, so I made some stops that span both sets of holes. Mine are very similar to the Veritas metal planing stops.

This works OK for some stuff. Often, I just rest the workpiece against the planing stop and ignore the end vice. However, It's about 3/8" and I can't really get it much thinner or it won't hold a 3/4" dowels. Moreover, even 1/4" pieces deflect easily over the dog holes, so I need to keep clear of them.

For the most recent box, I wanted to make a drawer with a 1/8" thick bottom and 3/16" sides. I eventually settled on 1/4" for everything because I wasn't sure how to plane the pieces. In another instance I wanted to make a small 1/2 ellipse part to give a thumb catch to a flush top. What I wanted was about 1" long x 1/4" x 1/4". I ended up with something twice that size because I couldn't find a way to hold anything smaller to shape it.

I'd be interested in what others do to work thin and small stuff?

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Are you able to resaw to this thickness? I assume it would not be sufficiently flat, but maybe...

If I wanted to run it through a planer, I would attach the board to a thick board and run it through that way. If needed, you could use elmers school glue to tack around the edge (perimeter) and then just cut out that where you glued.

[Chris Griggs]

Planing thin stock is a pain. If I get one side good an flat first I can typically plane down to about 1/8" thick by setting a dog or two really low in a hole and just planing into them. The other option for really really thin stock is to clamp one end down and plane away from the clamp toward the unclamped end and then turn the piece around and plane the end that you couldn't get to because of the clamp. You, of course need to be careful here to make sure you plane both ends evenly, and you also need to be able to plane against the grain, but you can plane very very thin this way, since the force in pulling the piece taught when you take a stroke.

Some folks also make special purpose planing boards, which are basically a piece of MDF or something with a stop set in so that it extend only like 1/8 or less above the surface.

[David Weaver]

Make a board with a border glued on on the front and the far side - and try to be accurate with your planing strokes so that you don't just push whatever you're planing right up over the border.

Just make sure that the board you're using is big enough so that you have some wiggle room on the end and sides, it'll be easier to use. If something overlaps the ends or sides, it'll be a pain to use.

[David Weaver]

Some folks also make special purpose planing boards, which are basically a piece of MDF or something with a stop set in so that it extend only like 1/8 or less above the surface.

I should've actually read that far to see that Chris already said what I said.

[Simon MacGowen]

Did you try mounting the plane (e.g. a LAJ) upside down and push the thin stock with a push block? It works well if the stock is 2" or so wide and under. Alternatively, attach the stock (oversized a bit) to a flat scrap with double-faced tape and plane the piece with a very sharp blade set for thin cuts.

Simon

[Daniel Rode]

Thanks Chris and David! A board with a edge stop sounds perfect. It seems so obvious now. While I was standing at my bench staring at a shooting board and a bench hook, the idea never crossed my mind. :(

[Zach Dillinger]

Planing thin stock is a pain. If I get one side good an flat first I can typically plane down to about 1/8" thick by setting a dog or two really low in a hole and just planing into them. The other option for really really thin stock is to clamp one end down and plane away from the clamp toward the unclamped end and then turn the piece around and plane the end that you couldn't get to because of the clamp. You, of course need to be careful here to make sure you plane both ends evenly, and you also need to be able to plane against the grain, but you can plane very very thin this way, since the force in pulling the piece taught when you take a stroke.

Some folks also make special purpose planing boards, which are basically a piece of MDF or something with a stop set in so that it extend only like 1/8 or less above the surface.

When I plane really thin stock (which is not terribly often), I usually just clamp the piece as Chris describes. Usually stock this thin is going to end up as veneer, so flattening it with a toothing plane isn't the worst thing in the world and this will help with the grain issues.

[Daniel Rode]

Thanks Simon. The bottom was too wide for this, but I've done similar with some things. My vices aren't deep enough to hold the plane properly, so I end up having to hold it which limits what I can do.

Did you try mounting the plane (e.g. a LAJ) upside down and push the thin stock with a push block? It works well if the stock is 2" or so wide and under. Alternatively, attach the stock (oversized a bit) to a flat scrap with double-faced tape and plane the piece with a very sharp blade set for thin cuts.

Simon

[Jim Leslie]

Usually stock this thin is going to end up as veneer, so flattening it with a toothing plane isn't the worst thing in the world and this will help with the grain issues.
This was one of those "so obvious why didn't I think of that" moments! Why oh why have I been trying to plane *both* sides so well when I end up (usually) glueing it to a panel. [I like making my own real veneer]. A forehead slapping moment..

[Jim Koepke]

Daniel,

My bench is also made by Sjoberg.

A few of my tricks might help you.

For the racking problem:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?183743-Anti-Rack-Spacer-Stack

Otherwise having different size pieces to set in the vise also works. The trick is to get the shim in the vise sized so the piece being worked is held but not bowed. Making a separate 1/16" shim is helpful for this.

I have been using these dogs for planing thin stock:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?207672-Pop-Up-Round-Dogs

I make mine on a lathe, but it is possible to make them without a lathe. It is just a little more work. Others have added their work on making these. Mine have an angle to the cutout so the top tends to hold the piece being worked. I try to avoid hitting them with tools, but also consider them to be sacrificial items if need be.

Hopefully Sjoberg didn't change the set up so much to make the vise opening too small to hold a plane.

Taking the movable jaw completely out. Place the threaded rod through the space between the handle and the frog of a plane and then reinstall the vise jaw. Care must be taken while doing this to not drop anything or to cut yourself on the blade. This works great for edge planing, but is a bit much to do face work.

I will try to take some pictures of these methods and post them later.

jtk

[Brian Thornock]

If you want to get really fancy, you could make a small vacuum hold down table, so you never have to worry about hitting stops. Of course, the vacuum pump or compressor kind of ruins the whole hand tool zen mojo.

[Daniel Rode]

Thanks Jim. Your bench and vices look just like mine. I made a few spacers but your idea is much more flexible. I think I'll try to make a set. Any tips you have are greatly appreciated!

I have some similar dogs that came with the bench. I think they are made by Sjoberg as well. They are plastic coated steel with built in bullet catches and so far indestructible.

I have not tried to mount my (#4) plane in the vice, but I'm pretty sure it's not deep enough. It's wide enough, but the threaded rod and guides are only a couple inches below the surface. My block plane might fit.



Daniel,

My bench is also made by Sjoberg.

A few of my tricks might help you.

For the racking problem:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?183743-Anti-Rack-Spacer-Stack

Otherwise having different size pieces to set in the vise also works. The trick is to get the shim in the vise sized so the piece being worked is held but not bowed. Making a separate 1/16" shim is helpful for this.

I have been using these dogs for planing thin stock:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?207672-Pop-Up-Round-Dogs

I make mine on a lathe, but it is possible to make them without a lathe. It is just a little more work. Others have added their work on making these. Mine have an angle to the cutout so the top tends to hold the piece being worked. I try to avoid hitting them with tools, but also consider them to be sacrificial items if need be.

Hopefully Sjoberg didn't change the set up so much to make the vise opening too small to hold a plane.

Taking the movable jaw completely out. Place the threaded rod through the space between the handle and the frog of a plane and then reinstall the vise jaw. Care must be taken while doing this to not drop anything or to cut yourself on the blade. This works great for edge planing, but is a bit much to do face work.

I will try to take some pictures of these methods and post them later.

jtk

[Daniel Rode]

Thanks Brian. I'm running a power / hand tool hybrid shop but I really enjoy quietness of planning, sawing, etc with no power tools running.

I did give some thought to using drawer liner. I've used this in the past for routing tough to clamp pieces. I don't think it has the hold I need to plane a board, tho.


If you want to get really fancy, you could make a small vacuum hold down table, so you never have to worry about hitting stops. Of course, the vacuum pump or compressor kind of ruins the whole hand tool zen mojo.

[Rob Lee]

Thanks Chris and David! A board with a edge stop sounds perfect. It seems so obvious now. While I was standing at my bench staring at a shooting board and a bench hook, the idea never crossed my mind. :(

You can also use FH brass screws to make "mini" planing stops. If you're careful - you could even trap all sides....

Cheers -

Rob

[Zach Dillinger]

You can also use FH brass screws to make "mini" planing stops. If you're careful - you could even trap all sides....

Cheers -

Rob

Assuming you can find real brass screws, not just steel screws that have a brass coating :)

[Daniel Rode]

Thanks Rob! Great idea! That would really work. I'm paranoid about getting blades near metal but brass would give some protection if I slipped some how.

BTW - the lotto is up over $500 million. If I win, expect an order for 2 of everything :) I actually bought a ticket, so my chances of winning are much higher now.

[Rob Lee]

Thanks Rob! Great idea! That would really work. I'm paranoid about getting blades near metal but brass would give some protection if I slipped some how.

BTW - the lotto is up over $500 million. If I win, expect an order for 2 of everything :) I actually bought a ticket, so my chances of winning are much higher now.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.... :)

[David Weaver]

Thanks Brian. I'm running a power / hand tool hybrid shop but I really enjoy quietness of planning, sawing, etc with no power tools running.

I did give some thought to using drawer liner. I've used this in the past for routing tough to clamp pieces. I don't think it has the hold I need to plane a board, tho.

Small screws (like rob says) pins coming out of the border on one side or sandpaper in the bed will help. you don't want drawer liner, as it will compress under the plane, the front of the piece being planed will come up and the piece will become both curved and propped above the planing stop, possibly to come down out of place and uncut.

These are all things you find out with experience, though. You come to a workable situation pretty quickly, get the job done, and move on. We talk about it longer than it will take you to get set up.

[Jim Koepke]

Thanks Jim. Your bench and vices look just like mine. I made a few spacers but your idea is much more flexible. I think I'll try to make a set. Any tips you have are greatly appreciated!

I have some similar dogs that came with the bench. I think they are made by Sjoberg as well. They are plastic coated steel with built in bullet catches and so far indestructible.

I have not tried to mount my (#4) plane in the vice, but I'm pretty sure it's not deep enough. It's wide enough, but the threaded rod and guides are only a couple inches below the surface. My block plane might fit.

You are welcome.

My only tip would be to be very careful with the thinnest shim at the joint with the dowels. That is the weakest point of the whole set up. It is also the main reason the set doesn't have a 1/16" shim. Mine is made from a 3/8" dowel inside an ~3/4" dowel. A larger choice of dowel sizing is possible and might be an improvement. A little more on this latter.

I like the original dogs, but having a bunch of pop up dogs is nice. I am also worried about what those "indestructible" dogs might do to a blade.


I have not tried to mount my (#4) plane in the vice, but I'm pretty sure it's not deep enough. It's wide enough, but the threaded rod and guides are only a couple inches below the surface. My block plane might fit.

I am about to head out to the shop to take some shots of how this is done. As long as nothing comes up I should be able to post this later.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

Here are some pictures of how to get a plane into a Sjoberg style vise.

Adjust the blade before the plane is in the vise. It is all but impossible to get access to the adjusting mechanism once this is set up.

277268 277267

The positioning can be moved around a little bit.

Be careful supporting everything when doing this. The casting of the plane can get in to the screw threads. I haven't done it, but it might be possible to crack the plane body if it jams in the threads. Also only tighten this as much as necessary to hold the plane. These vises are likely strong enough to crack iron if you crank them down.

277270


277269

The plane can be set low or high in the vise depending one what one wants to do.

It is also possible to put a piece of wood in the vise to use like a fence. For this to work the board needs a rabbet to cover the part of the plane where there is no blade protrusion. I have even angled the fence piece to allow angled planing on pieces for gluing mitered edge joints.

This is a detail of a bench tool made to help plane small pieces of thin stock.

277265

It shows the angled edge of the stop.

277266

It butts up against a clamped on stop at the end of the bench.

Hope this helps some.

jtk

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Just be careful planing with the plane held in the vise like that - if you aren't conscious of where your fingers are, it's easy to lose a little flesh!

Akin to what others have been saying, for the smaller thin pieces I was using for guitar work, I just used a bench-hook style piece, a piece of quite flat baltic birch ply, with a stop made of thin (less than 1/8", but I'm not sure the exact measure after the fact) of model makers ply glued to the top and tacked in place with some brass tacks.

If you're doing something of the same dimensions, (like a run of bench drawer bottoms all the same size) I've seen folks use a similar set up, but held by three or four sides - I think Jameel Abraham showed something along this lines for prepping wood for some fancy inlay in a Pop. Woodworking article.

The only thing I think I can add that I haven't seen mentioned is that when working with thin, flexible stock in these situations, using a longer plane than normal is quite helpful - using a number 7 for a stock that you might only use a 4 or 5 on if it were thicker, you can use even pressure on the sole to keep the stock from flexing or lifting up over the thin stops.

[Winton Applegate]

how to plane thin stock, especially 1/4" and less.

Ahh tha's easy. You need to read Toshio Odate.
Those shoji screen guys make small/thin stuff all the time.
And they sit down to work.
Enter my small planing beam.
http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/noydb1/Squarethatedge_zpsac0ebc86.jpg (http://s801.photobucket.com/user/noydb1/media/Squarethatedge_zpsac0ebc86.jpg.html)


Note the screw "dogs" that have an edge to bite the edge of the thin work enough to keep it down without any vise action.
http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/noydb1/Hideawayplaniingstops_zps4f8edbdb.jpg (http://s801.photobucket.com/user/noydb1/media/Hideawayplaniingstops_zps4f8edbdb.jpg.html)


The end dogs are screws and I experimented with concrete nails for stops/dogs along the "back" long edge of the mini bench (small planing beam). They work well also. I just pry them up using my modified curved screw driver modified to be a small prying tool. See my favorite handy tools in the favorite handy tools thread of some time ago now.

http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/noydb1/ThereareconcretenailstopsIcanraisealongoneedge_zps 81d2621c.jpg (http://s801.photobucket.com/user/noydb1/media/ThereareconcretenailstopsIcanraisealongoneedge_zps 81d2621c.jpg.html)


http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/noydb1/Undersidedetails_zpscead14b2.jpg (http://s801.photobucket.com/user/noydb1/media/Undersidedetails_zpscead14b2.jpg.html)


http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/noydb1/opositeedge_zps24df65f4.jpg (http://s801.photobucket.com/user/noydb1/media/opositeedge_zps24df65f4.jpg.html)


Some thin work
http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/noydb1/andLittleones_zps59609321.jpg (http://s801.photobucket.com/user/noydb1/media/andLittleones_zps59609321.jpg.html)


http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/noydb1/IMG_0264_zpsb324bdfa.jpg (http://s801.photobucket.com/user/noydb1/media/IMG_0264_zpsb324bdfa.jpg.html)


http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/noydb1/IMG_0265_zpsd33d401a.jpg (http://s801.photobucket.com/user/noydb1/media/IMG_0265_zpsd33d401a.jpg.html)

[Adam Cruea]

I made a planing stop that's about 1/8" thick Jatoba. I drilled two 3/4" holes in it with a forstner bit 4" apart, and it it used to stop thin pieces of stock. Works very well, and it was made from some scrap I had lying around. I want to make another planing stop or two, but that also requires I make the dowels, and they're a pain in the butt to get sized properly.

I also made the dogs that go into my LV twin screw end vise so that they only pop up 1/8" out of their holes.

The only time this hasn't worked for me was when I had a wickedly bowed board. I resawd some QSWO and left it on edge for a day, and when I went back the next day I swear it had bent almost 1/8" total.

[Jack Curtis]

Ahh tha's easy. You need to read Toshio Odate.
Those shoji screen guys make small/thin stuff all the time.
And they sit down to work.
Enter my small planing beam.

Those screws plus gravity and a Japanese plane make it too easy to handle thin pieces.

[david charlesworth]

As long as there is a little extra length, a couple of drops of superglue gel, will hold the starting end to a thick baseboard.

The work is now in tension while it is planed.

3/4" MDF is ideal. If you measure the thickness of the mdf, before you start, callipers will give a good reading of thickness.

I have used this method to plane inlay lines down to 1/16". A pair of lines about two inches apart, help with keeping the plane level, and the shavings can be alternated.

best wishes,
David Charlesworth

[Daniel Rode]

I think I got about 10 good ideas from this thread! I'm always impressed with the quality and breadth of the advice I get here.

[Steve Voigt]

I'm pretty late to this discussion, but just wanted to add one more idea. For the ultimate in precision hand-thicknessing of thin stock, in this case for shoji, check out this epic blog post by Raney (http://www.daedtoolworks.com/blog/?p=19). There are also some cool ideas for cutting these pieces here (http://www.daedtoolworks.com/blog/?p=18) and here (http://www.daedtoolworks.com/blog/?p=17).
I was thinking about this in relation to the recent thread about the bridge city jointmaker pro. For me, the coolest thing about Raney's jig is how it enables one to do incredibly precise, repetitive work without completely removing "workmanship of risk" from the equation.

[harry strasil]

You can also use FH brass screws to make "mini" planing stops. If you're careful - you could even trap all sides....

Cheers -

Rob

Here is a pic of using a FH brass screw to finish planing a piece of 1/8" stock.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=215650&d=1323752514

[Jim Matthews]

Why not tape the piece down with "Turner's tape" on a known flat substrate?

http://www.rockler.com/double-sided-turners-tape

An alternative is water-soluble veneer tape, but that takes longer to set.
The advantage is that a little spritz of water will release the adhesive.

You could glue down a cheapo ruler at the end to act as a stop.
The tape would spread the load over the length, so it's unlikely to shift.

(I do hope I didn't miss this suggestion, above.)

[harry strasil]

This thread from long ago shows my mini thickness planner I made to accomplish retitive thicknessing of the parquetry pieces in the tops of my demo tool boxes and its adjustable. I used a Stanley 140 I think skew angle block plane that slides in the rails.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?28659-shoot-boards-and-inlay-planing-jigs&highlight=thickness

[Jim Matthews]

This thread from long ago shows my mini thickness planner I made to accomplish retitive thicknessing of the parquetry pieces in the tops of my demo tool boxes and its adjustable. I used a Stanley 140 I think skew angle block plane that slides in the rails.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?28659-shoot-boards-and-inlay-planing-jigs&highlight=thickness

Man, that is still clever.
The whole range of things that sliding wedges can do
beyond holding stuff down - I shoulda paid attention in shop class.

But no, I was going to College!

I'm probably not alone in paying big money to learn the stuff
they tried to demonstrate - for free - back in High School.

[harry strasil]

I"m just a hobbiest WWer, Blacksmith by trade, but so much of the information overlaps. Right now I can't do much of either because of my back injury in Jan of 2006, but hopefully that will change on 2-4-14 when the Neurosurgeon works on me. I think I finally found one that I trust.
My oldest daughter is worried that I won't have anything to do during the 4 to 6 week recovery period, but I told her I have a drawer full of chisels and another full of planes that need their cutting edges touched up, so I get to use all those diamond sharpening things I have been collecting from internet specials that Woodcraft, Rockler, Lee Valley and other wwing concerns have sent over the years. + I have several hand saws local WWers have left with me to sharpen

[Chris Vandiver]

Japanese planing board;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jECQTbNgb6w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItMUjHdWiI4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VC1kzUgpzE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXDwjLR90r8