When did crystal clear finishes become desirable?

[Phil Thien]

So when did the crystal-clear (non-yellowing) finishes become desirable for lighter woods. I'm assuming that, until water-based finishes became popular, that very clear finishes were not commonly available?

I ask because I was recently in a older (and magnificent) home with an old (but probably not original) kitchen and pantry, and the maple drawers and shelves had an oil-based varnish on them. They had developed a deep sort of yellowish/amberish color over the years. It wasn't bad, it was gorgeous.

It was high-end stuff, and was built in a shop (in sort of big pieces) of instead of being stick-built on-site (there were backs and drawer slides and other evidence). I'd guess it was 40-50 years old, based on what I heard of the history of the house.

It seems current thinking is that crystal-clear waster-based finishes should be used on lighter woods. But I'm not sure why we think that other than the manufacturers of water-based products are telling us to think that.

This house also had some maple floors in a couple of areas, with old oil-based finishes. And they, too, looked amazing.

[Larry Edgerton]

Try Sikkens 078 Natural WB Interior. It will give you that same look in two light coats. Good for matching old varnish on new work.

Larry

[John Coloccia]

It's probably a matter of degree. There were SOME finishes way back when that actually turned yellow...I mean really yellow. Some of Fender's guitar finishes come to mind. If you've ever seen an Olympic White Fender from the 60's, it's hard to believe that it was a bright white when it left the factory. They're all an ugly pastel yellow now.

[Peter Quinn]

Phil, I don't know any finishers proclaiming that water white finishes are ideal for all conditions. Its got its place. On clear coat the old amber glow of tung oil based varnish is and always will be IMO gorgeous, and most decent water borne coating manufacturers have developed some form of alkyd emulsion based varnish to give darker and lighter wood the warm solvent based look. General and Target both make excellent versions. Old maple with that almost tea stained richness, hard to beat. Some of that comes from the sun, some from the finish. As John notes, amber over certain colors of pigment or even stained wood can move to a bad place over time. I've seen old wood work that looks like the 12 pack a day cigarette smokers club has been holding regular meetings in a place, but that used to be the only option. I work for a business that does some wood floor finishing, and there is a bit of a "trend" presently toward lye washed faded water white finishes on medium to darker woods that I simply don't understand. I personally feel it will pass, as do most trends eventually, but who knows? Pasty pale lifeless walnut with a bluish cast…not my thing, but then again I'm not much into contemporary architecture either. I've seen water white crystal clear finishes specified on maple floors, but usually in strange commercial installations, or ultra modern spaces whose interior seem to get renovated completely every couple of years, probably because the occupants are chasing the next trend? SO fear not, warm and amber is still around. At least hear in New England. Biut if you want your custom creme Strat to look as beautiful in 20 years as the day you bought it, then water white polyester finishes may be a god send to you.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I'm with you Phil. Always hated the pure white wood look, IMHO, it doesn't look warm and natural like wood "should". It's a personal preference think of course, but I have mine for sure!

[Lee Reep]

Just a guess, but for me, I like satin nickel hardware over brass, and that sort of carries over to finishes, where I like clear over a yellow/golden tone. But when it comes to old or vintage, I'll go traditional. The problems noted by others is that some finishes just get really dark over time, and often spoil, even hide the look or the beautiful wood underneath.

I am doing a plaque for a landmark building in Denver for my son-in-law, who is remodeling the building. The commemorative :disk' is old looking bronze, so I went with a massive red oak frame for it, with brass mounting screws. The finish is traditional exterior varnish that will give it a warm, vintage look.

[Phil Thien]

Just a guess, but for me, I like satin nickel hardware over brass, and that sort of carries over to finishes, where I like clear over a yellow/golden tone. But when it comes to old or vintage, I'll go traditional. The problems noted by others is that some finishes just get really dark over time, and often spoil, even hide the look or the beautiful wood underneath.

I am doing a plaque for a landmark building in Denver for my son-in-law, who is remodeling the building. The commemorative :disk' is old looking bronze, so I went with a massive red oak frame for it, with brass mounting screws. The finish is traditional exterior varnish that will give it a warm, vintage look.

Well, if you prefer a less yellow finish, what did you use before water based clear finishes? Of course, I'm assuming you've been at this hobby for a while. Lacquer is pretty clear, right?

[Phil Thien]

It's probably a matter of degree. There were SOME finishes way back when that actually turned yellow...I mean really yellow. Some of Fender's guitar finishes come to mind. If you've ever seen an Olympic White Fender from the 60's, it's hard to believe that it was a bright white when it left the factory. They're all an ugly pastel yellow now.

I went and googled some pictures, the yellowing is not attractive at all.

[Lee Reep]

Well, if you prefer a less yellow finish, what did you use before water based clear finishes? Of course, I'm assuming you've been at this hobby for a while. Lacquer is pretty clear, right?

Well, I didn't say I've had great luck for a long time. :) I've had pretty good luck with regular polyurethanes for pieces that don't get a lot of sun exposure. And like you mention, lacquers are nice and clear, but spraying is really only an option about half the year here in Colorado. I have not considered using water-based poly until recently, based on all the past bad press regarding grain lifting for water-based stains and finishes. But I plan to try the General Finishes PolyAcrylic on my next project.

[Rich Engelhardt]

As far back as I recall - which goes back to the mid 1960's - when someone wanted a crystal clear, we sold them Deft.

[Tony Joyce]

Water white(clear) finishes are not limited to water based and are not new. Water white solvent based lacquers have been available for over 30(which is as far back as I can recall) years. All clears will yellow(even water based) over a period of time, water white to a somewhat lesser degree.

Tony

[Curt Harms]

Well, I didn't say I've had great luck for a long time. :) I've had pretty good luck with regular polyurethanes for pieces that don't get a lot of sun exposure. And like you mention, lacquers are nice and clear, but spraying is really only an option about half the year here in Colorado. I have not considered using water-based poly until recently, based on all the past bad press regarding grain lifting for water-based stains and finishes. But I plan to try the General Finishes PolyAcrylic on my next project.

Lee, if you're set up to spray, I've had decent luck with Zinsser SealCoat cut 30-50% with DNA which yields a 1-1.5# cut dewaxed shellac. No grain raising then top coat as you wish. I've used that with paint but I don't see why it wouldn't work with other finishes as well. Another benefit to shellac is there are no practical temperature limits that I know of. I have an Earlex HVLP setup and have sprayed in the unheated though integral garage with no issues. A big drop cloth was the only overspray precaution.