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Randy Joyce
12-15-2013, 1:46 PM
I just started looking for a laser engraver. I found a used Universal M20. Guy says it needs new 30W C02 cartridge before long. Don't want to put alot into a new engraver till I see I can make some money... Can anyone tell me the value of this machine? Thanks

Walt Langhans
12-16-2013, 9:17 AM
Hey Randy

This probably isn't the answer your looking / hoping for but here it goes. A used laser is kind of like a used car, basically it all "depends". Unfortunately there isn't a blue book of used lasers values (at least not that I'm aware of) where you can just look things up. However there are a few sites that sell used lasers that you can take a look at and get an idea of what they are selling laser 'X' at now and find out what it's original price tag was. Also you can most certainly contact Universal and find out what it's going to cost to replace the tube. Other things that will affect the cost is what year is it, and what kind of extra features (if any) are on it.

HOWEVER... take warning, your comment of:


Don't want to put alot into a new engraver till I see I can make some money...

If you don't have a plan of what your going to do with the laser, how your going to do it, and who your going to sell your product to, DON'T get this laser or any other for that matter. There are all kinds of stories of failed business and repoed lasers because people thought "it's be cool to have a laser to make stuff and sell it". But with that said, if you have a plan and know what materials you'll be working with, and what kind of volume of work you'll be doing then there are all kinds of threads of choosing the right laser for your needs.

Best of luck!

Randy Joyce
12-16-2013, 5:57 PM
Thanks Walt, I guess Im always skeptical of new adventures. When I bought my Roland Printer I was the same way. Its been a pretty decent investment. I work at 2 different racetracks and make signs for a couple of different High Schools. So I'm pretty sure I can do ok with a engraver. Just dont want to invest in a new one at this time. I have tried contacting Universal through emails but no one has replied back. I have also asked the seller of the used one the year of the engraver but he didnt tell me. Just said it was a older one but they all worked the same. I made him a offer but probably made him mad. What is you opinion of the Chinese brands? And thanks alot for commenting back. Randy

Dave Sheldrake
12-16-2013, 7:00 PM
Guy says it needs new 30W C02 cartridge before long

That would stop me buying it straight off Randy, Regassing resonators can run into maybe $1,500, new sources can run to $3,000 upwards assuming only the resonator needs replacing. Western made machines while usually more reliable and better quality also tend to cost a lot more to fix than Chinese machines. Machines of unknown providence can be a nightmare, if you pick one up cheap it's likely cheap for a reason.

Chinese 30 watt glass tube $150
Western RF unit $2,500+

Chinese 50mm focal length ZnSe lens $25
Western 50mm focal length ZnSe lens $250+

Chinese machines are great so long as you aren't doing a lot of ultra fine detail stuff or engraving that needs to be quick. Parts are cheap and the machines can even be considered *disposable*, I have both types (and German+Japanese too) the Chinese machines make me the most return on investment but the other types will make me money for longer (in general) Support for Western machines tends to be top line, support for Chinese machines tends to be variable depending on how serious the problem is.

Right tool for the job springs to mind, if you have a good business idea then a more reliable machine can be useful so long as the budget stacks up at the end of the day.

cheers

Dave

Walt Langhans
12-16-2013, 7:44 PM
Thanks Walt, What is you opinion of the Chinese brands? And thanks alot for commenting back. Randy

No worries Randy :) I've had my machine for almost a year now, beat the crud out of it (it lives in a non environmental controlled garage, and has worked in extremely humid, and occasionally freezing conditions), and run it any where from 6 - 10 hours per day 6 days a week. The only issue I have had was a stretch belt that the good people here on the creek helped me work through. So in short I love it. HOWEVER, I knew what I was going to be doing with it before I bought it which is one of the reasons I bought it (I don't really do any fine engraving, and top speed wasn't a major issue for me) so it was also the right machine for the job.

Randy Joyce
12-17-2013, 9:22 AM
Walt...So you have the Schenhui REC180W? Am I reading this correct? Where did you purchase yours? And can you tell me the purchase price? Ive seen several on Ebay but dont really like the shipping deal on those from China. They say free shipping but thats shipped to a dock. All I need an engraver for is trophies and plaques. Atleast thats all Im thinking about doing right now. LOL

Dave.. I tend to lean towards a Western type like you mentioned because of the maintenace side. Sortof scared of the Chineses brands for that reason. But, they are alot cheaper too. So its up in the air right now. The used Universal I found is about 2 hrs from me and the owner says it will need a C02 before long and he does have a local service company that will come out. So Im doing some heavy thinking right now. He wants $4000 for the engraver and says the 30W c02 is another $1100. I made him a offer but guess it teed him off. Havent heard back.

Mike Null
12-17-2013, 9:36 AM
Randy

Where are you located?

Dave Sheldrake
12-17-2013, 9:38 AM
He wants $4000 for the engraver and says the 30W c02 is another $1100.

Look at it another way, a fully working machine is worth more money so why has he not had it re-gassed to sell if he has a dealer close by that can do it?

Looking at it logically, he has a $4000 machine for sale that it is unknown if it is serviceable or works or if not ,if it is repairable.

It may be great value and only need a gas up, it may be $50 worth of scrap metal. Chinese machines are nothing to be scared of, I spent $9,000 on my first one and didn't have a clue how the Chinese machines worked...I've never regretted it :)

You could also speak to Ray Scott at Rabbit if the import side / support worries you, I often hear excellent reports about Ray and in my own dealings with him he has been without doubt the BEST of any US based reseller.

cheers

Dave

Mike Null
12-17-2013, 9:56 AM
Dave

I assume you mean the best of any US based dealer of Chinese built machines.

If one reads the hundreds of posts relative to Chinese built machines it would be obvious that you better have your tool box ready if you buy one. That is certainly ok as long as you are prepared.

There is a very good chance that this Universal machine is a very good value it just takes some more research. (and maybe a bit more negotiating)

Dave Sheldrake
12-17-2013, 10:59 AM
I assume you mean the best of any US based dealer of Chinese built machines.

Indeed, sorry Mike I should have been a little clearer.

As to the Universal, it may be great (I have had 2 of theirs) but without knowing for sure one way or the other if it is serviceable $4,000 is a lot to throw at it (+ at least a re-gas).

cheers

Dave

Mike Null
12-17-2013, 12:10 PM
There is a small handful of extremely competent and helpful Universal distributors. If he happens to live in their area they'll help him research the history and advise him.

I was able to sell my 7 year old Universal 25 watt for $7500 just a few years back. It had a 4 year old tube.

Randy Joyce
12-17-2013, 3:09 PM
Fellows Thanks alot for the comments. The seller of the Universal has sent me a video of the machine etching my name. That was only a few days ago. So I do know its in working condition. I made him a offer but he hasnt replied back.

Mike Null, I am located close to Winston Salem NC

Walt Langhans
12-17-2013, 8:28 PM
Walt...So you have the Schenhui REC180W? Am I reading this correct? Where did you purchase yours? And can you tell me the purchase price? Ive seen several on Ebay but dont really like the shipping deal on those from China. They say free shipping but thats shipped to a dock. All I need an engraver for is trophies and plaques. Atleast thats all Im thinking about doing right now. LOL

Yes, and I got mine direct from the manufacturer. It's a bit of a process with the shipping and customs being the biggest pain. However it's can save you $1 - 2K depending. Before shipping my laser ran me 5K, but I got the housing upgraded to hold the 80 watt tube, an extra tube, lenses, mirrors an upgraded chiller and blower. Don't remember what the shipping was, I want to say around a 1K. If you want to get a chinese machine but don't want to deal with the importing check out Rabbit Laser USA and here's why I would recommend them: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?210859-Let-me-tell-you-about-Ray-Scott-from-Rabbit-Laser-USA

Randy Joyce
12-17-2013, 11:41 PM
Thanks Walt