38"x70"x2.5mil drum liners...

[Michael Dunn]

Tried Uline, amazon, still searching Grainger, numerous Canadian vendors, etc...

I have two 75 gallon fiber drums that I alternate as my collection bins for my CVMAX cyclone. I'd like to use drum liners with a sheet of rolled up laminate to hold it down as the collection bin is under negative pressure.

Anyway, Uline shipped me the two bins each with one clear plastic liner. Evidently this is a non stock item of theirs and therefor requires a $300 MOQ. I'm not spending $300 for these liners.

Does anyone have any leads as to where one may purchase 25-50 of these? I need them to be 38"x70" and ideally 2.5mil thick. Any thinner and I wouldn't trust it to hold up under the weight of 75gal of sawdust. Any thicker may be an unnecessary expense. The 38"x70" is pretty crucial. If it is shorter than 70" it may be difficult if not impossible to tie up the bag as my overflow sensor is 5" above the too of the drum. When the sensor trips the alarm the bin is at about 102% capacity. Hence the need for the extra liner length.

Any leads would be most appreciated.

[Nelson Howe]

I don't use a liner with my CV. When it's full, I dump it into a drum liner I bought at the Borg. It's a little messy but not too bad.

Nelson

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I bought some from Onieda years ago, they may still carry them. IIRK, they were expensive though.

[Michael Dunn]

I don't use a liner with my CV. When it's full, I dump it into a drum liner I bought at the Borg. It's a little messy but not too bad. Nelson

thats what I do now. I can't stand it. I need something quicker and easier even if it costs a bit more. Time is $$$

[Jeff Duncan]

I can't help as I get mine from U-line. However I wonder if you've thought this through fully? I know a 55 gallon bag full of heavier dust is very heavy and difficult to remove. I don't even want to think about how heavy a 75 gallon bag full is going to be:eek:

I would try a couple places that sell dust collector specific bags. The Dustek type collector bags are much taller than 55 gal and may do the trick.

good luck,
JeffD

[Michael Dunn]

I can't help as I get mine from U-line. However I wonder if you've thought this through fully? I know a 55 gallon bag full of heavier dust is very heavy and difficult to remove. I don't even want to think about how heavy a 75 gallon bag full is going to be:eek: I would try a couple places that sell dust collector specific bags. The Dustek type collector bags are much taller than 55 gal and may do the trick. good luck, JeffD

Good point... A bit late. I've had the 75 gal fiber bins since sept. I'm still young so I've plenty of strength in me. It has to be easier to lift a full 75 gal bag than to lift the entire bin and dump it into another container with a bag. That's what I did earlier today.

I seriously need to get that laminate sheet maybe plexiglass would be a bit cheaper. Lowes has the 4'x8' sheets of Formica for $42. I keep getting false over fill alarms. 20+ today. I have a few small strips of poplar bent around the inside perimeter in attempt to hold the bag down. Not much good.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

For $42 bucks, I'd be for scrounging a vacuum pump to hold the bag. Wire it into the starter and instant cheap version of the commercial bag holders.

[Michael Dunn]

For $42 bucks, I'd be for scrounging a vacuum pump to hold the bag. Wire it into the starter and instant cheap version of the commercial bag holders.

I did a similar thing with my festool vac earlier, but just to remove the air between the bin and the liner. At the moment I have no way to do this. Wouldn't the vacuum hole have to be centered somewhere so it sucks it straight down and not off to one side?

[John Cady]

Check with these guys: http://www.americanfabricfilter.com/

I got some heavy plastic bags from them for my Jet DC along with a larger fabric top bag.

[William C Rogers]

Michael

Regarding holding the bag. I tried similar approaches using a plastic sheet, weight on rope, ect inside the drum, but I didn't work out very well for me as sometimes I would cut the bag removing the sheet. I haven't tried it yet as I am still putting my shop back together after a move someone here or another site suggested to cut a hole in the bottom or side near the bottom and take a 2 1/2 in hose from the dust collector and attach it to the drum to hold the bag down. Similar to what was suggested above, but you don't need a separate vacuum pump.

Bill

[Michael Dunn]

Michael Regarding holding the bag. I tried similar approaches using a plastic sheet, weight on rope, ect inside the drum, but I didn't work out very well for me as sometimes I would cut the bag removing the sheet. I haven't tried it yet as I am still putting my shop back together after a move someone here or another site suggested to cut a hole in the bottom or side near the bottom and take a 2 1/2 in hose from the dust collector and attach it to the drum to hold the bag down. Similar to what was suggested above, but you don't need a separate vacuum pump. Bill

Good idea! Except in my case I think it may be easier to use a small auxiliary vacuum to do the task. I have 8" main ducts and don't have the time or cash to add a 2-1/2" drop. Would the side work? I know you mentioned the side, but I just want to be sure. I can't do it in the bottom due to the height of the mounted CVMAX.

[William C Rogers]

Good idea! Except in my case I think it may be easier to use a small auxiliary vacuum to do the task. I have 8" main ducts and don't have the time or cash to add a 2-1/2" drop. Would the side work? I know you mentioned the side, but I just want to be sure. I can't do it in the bottom due to the height of the mounted CVMAX.


Michael

i have not tried it yet so don't actually know about side. It would seem to me it would work from the side neat the bottom. Small vac should work fine. I just didn't have much luck with the sheet in a larger container, however I was able to make it work in a small container (2 gallon) my dust deputy is hooked to. You may have better luck. Post if you come up with a viable solution.

Bill

[Michael Dunn]

I may try the laminate sheet first since it's possibly the easiest with the smallest amount of forethought.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I did a similar thing with my festool vac earlier, but just to remove the air between the bin and the liner. At the moment I have no way to do this. Wouldn't the vacuum hole have to be centered somewhere so it sucks it straight down and not off to one side?

Nope, on my Onieda, it's on the bottom edge, on the side. You need more vacuum there than the system makes to get the bag to suck against the wall of the drum, so just plumbing into the collector will not do it. The Festool vac would, but a little pump is so simple.

[Paul Wunder]

Grizzly added a vacuum operated bag hold down to their cyclone models a few years ago. No pump is used. A 1 1/4" flex hose is connected from the top of the cyclone cone and goes to the bottom of the collection drum. They use a "slanted ring" in the bottom of the drum. You can see how they do it buy looking up the Grizzly G0440 model (for example) and look at their instruction manual where it is shown in detail. I do not own this (I have a ClearVue).

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Grizzly added a vacuum operated bag hold down to their cyclone models a few years ago. No pump is used. A 1 1/4" flex hose is connected from the top of the cyclone cone and goes to the bottom of the collection drum. They use a "slanted ring" in the bottom of the drum. You can see how they do it buy looking up the Grizzly G0440 model (for example) and look at their instruction manual where it is shown in detail. I do not own this (I have a ClearVue).

Hmm, maybe I'm wrong then, it apparently is possible to do it without the vacuum pump.

[mreza Salav]

to hold the drum liner what I eventually did was to buy a sheet of metal (I think 22 gauge?) and rolled it to the size of the drum and rivet (to make a cylinder).
Two pieces of rope as handle and down it goes into the plastic bag holding it essentially against the drum. When the bin is full, I pull the cylinder out first then take out the bag. Sorry don't have a picture.

[Bob Reda]

You can try here http://www.webstaurantstore.com/contractor-trash-bags-hercules-bag-50-ct-45-gallon-3-mil-low-density-50-case/5014046XXH.html I get them for my oneida, i have the small bin, I don't know if they have bigger bags or not. to hold the drum liner I use to use the vacuum pump oneida sold, then they offered the plastic insert, works a lot better for me.

Bob

[Matt Meiser]

I tried the laminate thing and it worked ok at first but eventually broke. I found bags at McMaster Carr for my drum.

[Jeff Duncan]

When are you getting false alarms? If it's new bags I've heard of guys who'll start out with a shovel full of dust to hold the new bag down. I think I'd be worried about using laminate 1 b/c it's way easy to crack it, especially larger sheets. Also b/c if you don't have it wrapped just right it could slice right through the bag.

I don't have any problems with my bags staying down, but it seems like maybe it's a problem with other collectors? I wonder if it's just not sealing properly?

good luck,
JeffD

[mreza Salav]

I too thought initially that if the system is well sealed the bag shouldn't be sucked up, but after a bit more thought it became clear that in fact it should.
The issue is before the system is turned on, the pressure everywhere (including the area between the bag and the drum (which is now sealed) is the same as everywhere else. Once you turn on the cyclone, there is a vaccum in the cone (i.e. inside the bag) while the pressure between the bag and the drum remains the same, which is now much higher than inside the bag; hence the bag is pushed up into the cyclone body.

I tried many things (including laminate sheets) but they collapsed/broke. The sheet metal solution is very easy and it is one of the best $30's I have ever spent.

[Jeff Duncan]

Mreza, I see you logic, BUT….if there's no way for air to come in through the barrel, the bag should indeed stay put. The slightest leak in the barrel will allow air to be moved when the vacuum is created. I learned this the hard way when I first got my system up and running. Since then I simply drop the bags in and go;)

JeffD

[mreza Salav]

Mreza, I see you logic, BUT….if there's no way for air to come in through the barrel, the bag should indeed stay put. The slightest leak in the barrel will allow air to be moved when the vacuum is created. I learned this the hard way when I first got my system up and running. Since then I simply drop the bags in and go;)

JeffD

You are thinking like me earlier. It has nothing to do with a leak. The air between the bag and drum is sealed but has a pressure, say 1 atmosphere. As soon as you create a vaccum inside the bag that air between the bag and the drum (with a pressure of 1 atmosphere) will push toward the vaccum.
Think you have a balloon filled with air (sealed) once it goes up in the air as the air pressure outside drops the ballon grows bigger and bigger, same thing happens.
I am surprised you say you simply drop the bag in and go....

[Dave Wyatt]

Try canadianwoodworker.com. They stock the bags you are talking about.

[Michael Dunn]

When are you getting false alarms? If it's new bags I've heard of guys who'll start out with a shovel full of dust to hold the new bag down. I think I'd be worried about using laminate 1 b/c it's way easy to crack it, especially larger sheets. Also b/c if you don't have it wrapped just right it could slice right through the bag. I don't have any problems with my bags staying down, but it seems like maybe it's a problem with other collectors? I wonder if it's just not sealing properly? good luck, JeffD

I believe it is sealed properly based on the small amount of chips in my filter cleanup. That and I checked for leaks.

I've tried dropping a large piece of wood in the bottom of the bag to no avail. It's the tops of the bag that gets pulled toward the center of the bin. The dust then sits atop the bag and trigger a premature overload alarm.

I'm intrigued by the 2-1/2" hose from the cyclone to the bottom of the bin. Very hesitant to cut into the cyclone. I may pickup an incut 8" to 2-1/2" WYE for the first run of 8" duct.

[Michael Dunn]

Try canadianwoodworker.com. They stock the bags you are talking about.

I tried that place. I called two Canadian based companies. One of them did not sell to the U.S.

[Michael Dunn]

I may try the laminate sheet first since it's possibly the easiest with the smallest amount of forethought.

I'm unable to find what I need at this site. I tried typing, 'drum liner' and 'plastic bags'. Are they called something else in Canada?

[mreza Salav]

Michael, I use large (144L) garbage bags (contractor grade is thicker) in my bin. They are cheap and work well with the bag-hold-down I place in them.

[Bill White]

Couldn't ya just put a piece of chain in the bottom of the bag for added weight?
Bill

[Michael Dunn]

What do you use for a bag hold down? I just order 50 6 mil 70"L bags from American Fabric Filter. $120 for 50. Not too bad. Now I just need the quickest, cheapest, and simplest solution for holding the bag down and then I'm set.

[mreza Salav]

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, bought a sheet of 22 gage galvanized metal and rolled it into a cylinder (riveted the edge) and added two handles (out of short pieces of rope). The cyclinder is just a tiny bit smaller than the bin (both diameter and height) and goes into the bag. I tried many things (including laminate sheet) but they all collapsed. The sheet metal works well and it's the best $30 I have spent.

[Michael Dunn]

So I ended up ordering a roll of 50 liners. 70"x24"x6mil from American Fabric Filter or whatever they're called. Really heavy duty. These will work perfectly for me! I think these 50 will last me a year or more. Hopefully less! More dust, more work, more income.

[Michael Dunn]

Oh, I also made a sheet metal sleeve. I don't know how well it works as I slid it into a bag that was already filled to the point where the bag wouldn't get sucked up.

This bag issue has ruined either my bin sensor PSU or the bin sensor PCB itself. I ordered a new PSU. We will see if that is the issue. Sadly, I think the PCB has failed. I thought it was on the same breaker as my Kapex and CT-22. It turns out the west wall of my shop has all independent 110V circuits.