Any recommends on a shaper?

[Jan Pflederer]

I am new to the group and found it in the process of looking for recommendations on buying a shaper for personal use. I have been looking at 1-1/2 HP to 3 HP models. I use a router table today and am I think a shaper would do a better job and be much more stable. Anyone out there can help me, please or email me.

Thanks, Jan

[Mike Cutler]

Jan. Welcome to Sawmill Creek. The only shaper I've ever used was a Delta 1 1/2 hp. It seemed to do ok. I'm no expert though. I'm certain that you'll get a wealth of responses from others here on the board. Pretty much just wanted to welcome you to the 'creek.

[Jim Becker]

There are a number of philosophies about shapers in the workshop, especially if you are a hobbiest. In general, shapers are considered production tools...machines where you need the power and capablity to mill, and mill and mill, particularly with larger cutters. They run way slower at maximum speed than routers do (8-12K rpm) and some people (not all) find them lacking when using small cutters, such as router bits, due to that slow spindle speed.

Personally, I don't own one and haven't felt the need for one. But if I bought, it would be at least a 3hp unit so that I have the option to run the really large cutters as well as the extra table space that you don't get with the low-power "consumer" shaper products. One thing...if you want to run router bits, be sure the unit you choose can take a spindle that accomodates them. Most, but not all do that, although the router bit spindle may be extra cost, too.

[lou sansone]

I have found having a shaper a big improvement over router tables and such. I have a delta 3 hp unit similar to the x5.. Works great and I use router bits all the time. I would probably be in the market for a tilting spindle shaper in the future because I find that for the work I do it opens up more possibilities. I would not go less than 3 hp. Some folks like a sliding table as well, but I have not tried one. If I did kitchens all the time then I would be interested in the sliding table

lou

[Dev Emch]

Shhhhhhhhhhhheeeeee! Please be weeerry weeerryyy quite. I will let you in on a little known secret. Shapers are wonderful and much nicer and easier to use than router tables.

I find the shaper the most useful machine I own. Would not go a day without it. They are much easier to use than a router table. Tooling is easier to setup and dial in and they cut differently.

Router bits are the dental drills of the industry. The hook angles, clearance angles and shear angles are designed for tiny bites and high speed. So when your doing router table work, often you have to take two or three passes to get your work down to were you wish to be. The same profile in a shaper cutter will pulverize anything that is not your profile instantly!

Also note that routers used in router tables get their power from RPM. Afterall, routers are universal motors. Shapers are driven by induction motors. So you have high torque and low RPM to power dependency with a shaper. The opposite is true about the router which is why you hear the RPM drop as soon as the bit takes a bite.

Not all router bits run at 20,000 RPM. The larger panel raising and cope and stick cutters are often run at only 10,000 RPM. Its the tiny detail bits like a 1/4 inch spiral flute bit or 1/8 inch roundover bit that needs the 20,000 RPM speeds. And then its a matter of feeds and speeds. At the end of the day, your surface finish depends on how many nicks per inch you get. So if you run the board though a bit slower than usual and drop your spindle speed down, you will still have a similar finish.

For most folks and this is esp. true of hobbyists, I would sincerely recommend a router bit adapter for the shaper. Not all shapers have these and it can become very expensive to toolout a larger shaper. So this should be on your list of features when shopping for that first shaper.

Personally, I wouldn't touch a shaper unless it had at least 3 HP. This 1.5 HP stuff is for the birds. A very popular shaper would be the powermatic 27 or the delta HD both of which have two speeds and a footprint similar to that of a unisaw. In fact, the HD looks like a unisaw that is missing a fence and has a stick sticking out the top. Many import shapers are copies of either of these two.

The delta HD has been made for many many years under a number of names such as delta, rockwell, rockwell/delta, etc. It can be adapted into a variety of configurations including motor upgrades to 5 HP and the addition of sliding tables.

Which ever model you decide on, check to see if the spindles are interchangeable. You will need a router spindle, a 1.25 inch heavy duty spindle and then maybe a 3/4 inch or 1/2 inch spindle to handle smaller detail cutters. There is often also a 1 inch spindle.

Hope this helps and best of luck in hunting down your first shaper.

[Larry Reimer]

About two years ago I bought a Shop Fox one horsepower shaper instead of putting one of my good routers into a table. As a router table replacement this thing has been wonderful. Accepts either 1/4" or 1/2" shank bits, good solid split fence.good height adjustment and it provides a very solid base for all my jigs and attachments.

As a shaper it would be at the very bottom end. It only takes a 1/2" spindle and thus you're very limited on cutter selection. It wouldn't have the horsepower to do a lot of standard shaper jobs.

I didn't buy it for shaper work, I bought it as a router table repacement and I've been very happy with it.

[Mike Tempel]

First things first - welcome to the Creek. Hope you stick around and learn a little and share some too. I own the 110V JET 1 1/2 HP shaper and use it instead of a router table. I can run all my router bits in it (both 1/2 and 1/4 shanks) and there are times that I would truly like to have router table. I find the shaper easy to set up and delivers all the power that I need for all my milling work. It does throw a larger cutter that has its own advantages while at the same time presenting new challenges - consider safety for one. Imagine a raised profile for example - while the typical router raised profile bits are large and turn at an amazing speed the raised profile cutter is much larger and thus you must watch your finger/hand placement just as much if not more so than you would on the router table. This is something not unique to shapers by any means and you can work with it provided you are safety conscious and you can even make cover boxes or fences set up with safety in mind. Cutters are somewhat more expensive and sometimes more difficult to find when you are looking for just the right one. There are definitely more router bits available in the market for the hobbyist than there are cutters. Sometimes this can be a challenge in itself. I wouldn't trade my shaper for a good router table/router though. I think that it would easily cost as much and quite possibly more for a comparable router and table setup - although with that said I would like to have a good router setting in a table that I could make and customize for my uses. My shaper is definitely a workhorse in my shop and I love it. Take a good look around and get what will work for you in the long run. Consider availability of the profiles that you think you will use long term as well. Table size, the power supply you have available in your shop, availability of cutters/bits, and of course your budget should all be considered in your final decision. No matter what you decide to get there are always people who will be ready to help you with advice and tips and some of the most helpful ones are available right here so be sure to come back often and wade in and join us at the Creek.

[John Weber]

I agree with the other pro shaper guys, I bought a Delta Limited Edition a couple years ago instead of upgrading my router table. I bought the Delta 3hp last year after initially thinking I could only afford an imported or used machine. Once I was able to see an imported shaper (General International much like the Grizzly) and the Delta side by side, the decision was easy. The Delta is a much more refined machine, smooth operation, nicer castings, all cast iron undercarriage vs. some stamped steel used it the General. The fence on the Delta is also vastly superior to the imports, very easy to adjust and excellent dust collection. The Delta also has the largest table, well engineered and refined drive system, and is still made in the USA, plus the finest control on spindle height adjustment of any competitive machine. This is extremely important in ease of setup - most people never think of it at first. Some other benefits of the Delta are excellent fit and finish and a 2 year warranty.

After about a year I added a power feeder and the shaper is a dream to use. I would really consider adding a feeder if you plan to do much shaping. I ended up with a Steff/Maggi from Italy; they make Felder feeders and maybe some others. The largest feeder manufacturer is CoMatic from Taiwan, they make most of the feeders you see Delta, Sunhill, King, etc…), and are decent, the Steff/Maggi’s are just a little more refined and according to my dealer use better materials for gears and such.

My shaper gets light use in a hobbyist shop, but it is a joy to use. The induction motor is quiet, powerful, and reversible. Adjustment is precise and very smooth, the work surface is large and flat, dust collection is decent, and the Delta comes with a really nice fence.

I have a fair amount invested, but I believe I can do most everything a router table can and much more. (I still have my Porter Cable router table, but I think I’ve only used it once in about 3 years).

John

http://www.weberwoodworking.com/picsw04/powerfeedernew2.jpg

[thomas prevost]

I have a 1 1/2 hp shaper and wish I had 3hp. I find that I use the router table less and less. With a router spindle adapter, the larger router bits(panel and molding bits) cut much better in the shaper due to less vibration. The small i.e less than 3/4 in diameter are still best on the router table. For my work, I use the tablesaw rather than the straight bits for dadoing. Also most of the small bits are used in the handheld mode for edging.

A Grizzly 3hp is similar in price to a heavy duty router, table, stand, and fence. Also, many shaper bits cut two profiles making them more economial. I would also stay away from the "bench top" shapers. They are really permanently mounted routers.

I have many Grizzly tools and find them equal to or better than the "new" Delta tools, Shopfox, etc. Though they are not in the same class as Powermatic and simlar brands.

[Alan Turner]

I have a PM 26, which I acquired as part of an estate I bought, and it works well. It came with 1/2" and 3/4" spindles, and a whole diff. spindle, 1" in diameter. It works well, although I have not put a ton of miles on it. You see them on ebay once in awhile for about $1000. The older PM's are good.

[Charlie Plesums]

I have a 5 hp shaper as part of a combo machine and love it. I no longer have a router table, because of space limitations.

I recommend at least 3 hp... I haven't used a smaller one, but I do put a good load on my 5 hp motor at times.

If you are a mill looking for cutters that will run all day, those vendors consider a 1 1/4 inch spindle very small. If you are looking for inexpensive cutters, there is a large selection of cutters for 3/4 inch spindles. The international "standard" spindle size is 30 mm (just over an inch), so some vendors only sell 30mm. I have both the 1 1/4 and 3/4 inch spindles.

Without a router table I have to use my shaper for some router bits. The slower speed isn't ideal, but has worked for all the bits I have tried. For example, I bought a shaper cutter for the 1/4 inch roundover that I use a lot, but use router bits for other roundovers. A router bit vendor explained that the slower speed could lead to burning, since the chips carry the heat away from the cut, and the slower speeds might not move chips as well.

[TK Donovan]

Like some of the other members, I have a router table in addition to the 5hp shaper that's part of a combo machine. I used to use a 1.5hp Grizzly. I would stick with the router table rather than a small shaper. A larger (3hp +) shaper with a 1.25" spindle is a completely different machine. Its ability to absorb vibration and the stiffness of the spindle are what makes the difference.

I have the same feeder as John W. Adding the feeder opened up a whole new world to me. The shaper is sooooooo much safer plus it's a lot more accurate and consistent when cutting. For me, I was able to climb cut piles of Douglas Fir which chipped terribly when hand feeding into the cutter rotation.

It can be a bit of money to buy cutters, but well worth the expense when machining door parts or other similar profiles.

[Steve Rowe]

I ditto Dev's remarks. One thing to consider is safety, the cutters are much larger diameter and quite frankly at times terrifying (particularly with panel raising cutters). The first time I did this, it was enough to make me want a stock feeder badly. Be prepared to pay a lot more for shaper cutters than router bits. The cost of cutters (like router bits) can quickly exceed the price you paid for the machine to turn them.

Steve

[Chris Padilla]

I just don't see why anyone who considers themselves a hobbyist needs more than a good router table...unless you have the pockets to handle a shaper and its bits. I consider router tables to be mobile but shapers more or less tend to stay put.

As you get more serious into your hobby and if you have the space, a shaper might be in your future but I'd start with a router table.

[Per Swenson]

I use a shaper but out of curiosity I just checked
Woodpeckers and Amazon.
Delta 3hp shaper ,free delivery, htc mobile base,
$1800. Woodpeckers, router table, lift, fence,
(the good stuff) $1150, plus lets add the price of say a PC
7518 , $285. = $1435.
For $365 extra clams I would go for the shaper.
But I am biased. I have never used a router table.

Per

[Eldon Berg]

2 years ago I was considering spending quite a bit on a Router table ( lift, dedicated router, table top, cabinet etc.) which looked like it was going to approach $500. I looked around and found a used Powermatic 3hp shaper for $650. It has collets for both 1/4 and 1/2" router bits as well as the 3/4" shaper bits. I have yet to buy any shaper bits but use it all the time for router bits. The vertical adjusment is solid and easy to adust. I did make a fence tailoered after a router table since the fence that came with it is really good for production but ackward to change all the time. I am very happy with the shaper and am glad I found the bargain and bought it.

Eldon