Conventional Table Saw v Sliding Table Saw

[Steve Mellott]

I am a hobbyist woodworker and have decided to buy a new table saw. I was leaning toward a Sawstop model, but have learned I can buy a used MiniMax SC3 (in great condition) for less money. While I saw an occasional panel, I primarily use the table saw to rip boards. I can fit the SC3 footprint into my shop, but am not sure if I want to deal with 2 motors and 2 blades. I'd also like to continue using my Incra fence which may or may not fit on the SC3. I think the SC3 may be a superior saw at a better price, but am wondering if the SC3 sliding table saw may be too much of a saw for someone like myself. Any advice or me? Thanks.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Steve, there have been some tremendously informative and useful threads pertaining to this subject in the past. If you want, a search will find.

I started with a Delta contractor saw, went to a Jet cabinet saw, then took the plunge and bought a Felder. I now also have a unisaw that I use as a worksite saw. That being said, I am a hobby guy, and have never regretted the slider. You have to want to commit to a different way to saw though to get the full benefit of such a tool. Some relesh that, and will see massive benefits, some don't want to learn new techniques, and will not like a slider.

First question, which are you?

[Loren Woirhaye]

You don't have to use the scoring arbor. You may find you have use for it as your needs grow, but for general work, I think you'll find a quality main blade on its own works pretty well. It's true that most of us mostly rip with the table saw. A slider however is a precision cross-cutting tool as well and can do an especially good job on cabinet sides and glued up panels. You also get stops on both sides of the blade (the fence, slid back, to the right) and it can be a useful way to cut strips or blocks without them flying around the shop as can happen with a miter saw.

[John McClanahan]

When I was table saw shopping, I was temped by a couple of older sliders. Then I discovered the arbor is too short to use a dado stack on them. I now own a Powermatic 66.

John

[Al Bacon]

When I was table saw shopping, I was temped by a couple of older sliders. Then I discovered the arbor is too short to use a dado stack on them. I now own a Powermatic 66.

John

Thats not true of all of all sliders. I own a Grizzly G0700 small slider which does everything I have asked including mounting a full dado stack. As Steve says, you do have to learn some new ways of doing some things but all in all I believe it is
a very good saw and for my small small shop it is a perfect fit.

Al

[Bill Neely]

My Laguna TSS takes a full dado stack too. I don't have any problem ripping with it either. Best of all possible worlds with the exception of a high end vertical panel saw (~Striebig) AND a good table saw.

[Loren Woirhaye]

Considering the range of joinery options available today, I don't understand the fascination with dado capability. My slider takes a dado and I seldom use it. You can define both sides of a dado on a slider without taking the time to switch blades by the crosscut fence and stop on the left and using the rip fence slid back to stop the work on the right side.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I agree with Loren, the dado thing is overblown. There are other ways to do it. Also, its a bit of misinformation that sliders and dados are incompatible on a grand scale. I think most have the longer arbor. BTW, the slider and the Sawstop are apples and oranges, that slider is in a whole new league than and cabinet saw.

[David Kumm]

Ripping on sliders is very different to using a traditional saw so you need to commit to learning a different way. You want a crosscut fence that removes easily and resets at exactly 90 degrees if you are ripping against the fence or ripping a board longer than the sliding table. As for the dado, newer saws are equipped for it but changing back and forth takes some effort too. Older cast iron short stroke sliders and tables that cranked out and were the easiest to use with the dado as the reference with the rip fence and with the crosscut fence remained intact. Newer sliders have a flange that removes to allow the blades to be set back into the fixed side of the table. That means both fences need to be reset. no big deal but not something you want to go back and forth with. I've got sliders from 18" to 10' as well as traditional and use them all. Still like to rip wider boards off the rip but that isn't as easy with a long slider. Ripping off the sliding table with a parallel stop works better with a long stroke. My most versatile is a short stroke Whitney modified to crosscut 36" but looks like a traditional. I'm surprised more short stroke saws with crank out tables aren't made anymore. Dave

[johnny means]

The Incra fence really would not be compatible, as a slider fence needs to be able slide to the front of the table ahead off the blade.

[Paul Vincent]

Get the cabinet saw and then hose down the floor and turn off the heat so it ices up. Then you’ll have a sliding-cabinet saw!

[Dominic Carpenter]

My two cents. I've owned a Hammer K3W no for 2 yrs. I agree with what has been said here regarding the scoring blade and dado. Have both, but I don't use either often per previous comments. That said, I continue to be thrilled with this machine. As mentioned, the approach is different , but once you learn the techniques you will catch yourself thinking "WOW!" that is much easier and more accurate without having to make sleds and jigs. You will also appreciate the capacity improvements and the 12" blade. Absolutely no regrets!

[Jim Andrew]

Have not considered a slider for myself, but reading this thread makes me think maybe I should be interested. Looked at the Hammer Christmas price list and it doesn't seem really out of line, of course I know nothing about these saws, the 31x31 and the 31x48 look similar to American table saws, with a sliding table attachment. Is the 31x48 the capacity of the saw? Similar to the wide table on my unisaw with the ability to rip 48"? And the slider 31"?

[Mike Wilkins]

Like others here, I took a progressive path towards a sliding tablesaw. Started with an el-cheapo benchtop machine with a scary rip fence; a mid-40's Milwaukee with a small top; Sears Craftsman contractor type saw; mid-60's Rockwell/Delta Unisaw (wish I still had); finally a Laguna Pro 6' sliding saw with scoring. Takes some adjustment to using a slider, but when you consider you can do anything on it that you can accomplish with a standard cabinet-style machine, and more, the advantages stand out. I rarely use the scoring, but its there if needed. I can use 10 or 12 inch blades. Has dado capacity, but I never use this feature since routers, straight bits and a good edge guide is a better option. But crosscutting with a measured stop on the miter fence makes flawless cuts all day long. My shop size dictated a short stroke machine (16 X 24), but if the lottery-gods ever smile on me, a slider capable of ripping a 8 foot sheets will be in the works. In the end you will not regret the purchase of a slider. And lots of folks with these type machines have retro-fitted a nicer rip fence on their machines, although newer ones have been improved. Good luck and watch those fingers.

[Erik Loza]

Steve, I cannot tell you whether or not you should buy that SC3W but will tell you that it probably has only one motor, for the main blade. The scoring blade on those is typically slaved off the main arbor via a flat belt setup. It ought to be independently adjustable, so you can lower it completely below the deck when not needed. Hope this helps.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, I sold a General cabinet saw to make room for a Hammer B3 Winner with scoring saw and dadoe capability.

There's no comparison, the slider is far more capable and has far greater capacity in the same floor space, as well as much better dust collection.

I would buy the scoring option if I was buying new, it makes such a difference on sheet goods, you can't tell which is the good side and which is the bad side because they're both perfect.

In regards to the rip fence, does the slider have a typical 3 function Euro fence? If so, you'll want to keep it for safety and convenience reasons, I certainly wouldn't replace it with an aftermarket fence.

The Euro saws often have provision for a power feeder on a flip up bracket, really handy for repetitive rippng operations or dadoes as it flattens the sheet out....Regards, Rod.

[Brent Ring]

I have a Grizzly G036 and love it - I have had to rethink some things, but as a general rule - it is faster and quicker that a regular saw.

[Tom Clark FL]

Over 20 years ago I went from the small contractor's saw to a cabinet saw with a sliding table. This combo is a cheap version of a slider. But if you cut a lot of square cuts (and who doesn't) it is a wonderful time saver. Sliding tables are available for many table saws.

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[Mike Ruggeri]

I'm in in the same boat as others - went from contractors saw, to cabinet saw to MM slider. I also rarely use the scoring or dado (although my saw can do both). For me, the best thing I like about my current saw is that most of the time I can secure the work to the sliding table and just push it through the blade while standing to the side. This gives me a really nice finished edge that can usually go straight to glue up. I find myself still using some jigs (like the tenon jig from my Unisaw that I transformed to work on my slider), but the experience is much nicer.

[Joe Hillmann]

If you spend half an hour using a slider any regular table saw will seem unbearable to use from that point on.

I also doubt the sawstop is much safer than a slider in good condition. With a slider your hands are kept a way from the blade even on small items and if you are using the slider for ripping kickback is very unlikely.

[Mike Delyster]

I have both in my shop, a Sawstop ICS and a Minimax SC3. Both are good quality saws, you won't go wrong with either one. For furniture projects my slider sees very little use, but the same can be said for the cabinet saw when I'm working with sheet goods.

I don't use a dado set on my table saw very often anymore, shapers and routers get the call for that type of work.

[John McClanahan]

The no dado on the two saws I looked at wasn't the only reason. That combined with the floor space required for the sliding table. Both saws were over an hour away, and when I started asking specific questions, the seller's answers would get vague.

John

[Larry Edgerton]

I saw that one for sale this morning. No question in my mind which one I would buy. Not the sawstop.

I own a SC3 and it has been flawless for more years than it has a right to as it has been worked hard. I lowered the scoring blade, and it is a slave off of the main arbor as Erik suggested. It has been running for twenty years on the same scoring belt, so I am set because I have two spares in the cabinet. Great saw, stays in tune forever, and mine does take a dado with a slide on collar and blades bored to 1 1/4"

Larry

[Dominic Carpenter]

I would disagree with Mike regarding the slider being useful mainly for sheet goods. Understand everyone works differently, however, 98% of everything I do is solid stock for furniture. Although the slider shines working with sheet goods, the large crosscut table and miter stops makes every aspect of joinery (especially angled joinery) dead on and a breeze.

[Larry Fox]

I have an SCMI SI12 and came to it from a Unisaw. I love the accuracy of the slider - especially with sheet goods. The slide on mine is 60(ish)" and with my current project I wish it were an 8' but I don't have the room. To be fair, for most of my projects it is not an issue. Mine will accept a dado but as others have said, I don't use it very often as there are tons of other ways to accomplish the same thing. I will say this about my particular slider - ripping does take a lot of getting used to and I am still not used to it. Same can be said for work-holding. However, it is fantastic when it comes to building jigs and such as you can bolt them to the table and move them into the blade as opposed to worrying about things like miter slots and the like. I always hated that aspect of a standard cabinet saw.

[Alan Bienlein]

If you spend half an hour using a slider any regular table saw will seem unbearable to use from that point on.

I also doubt the sawstop is much safer than a slider in good condition. With a slider your hands are kept a way from the blade even on small items and if you are using the slider for ripping kickback is very unlikely.

I spent 8 years in one shop cutting all day long on a slider. I can take it or leave it. We had two of them along with five unisaws spread out in the shop. The sliders were an Altendorf and an SCMI both with 10" capacity on the sliding table and 16" main blades with scoring.

They are safer to a point but if and when the do grab a piece of wood there is no way what so ever your ever going to try and hold it on one of those as that 10hp motor will do what it wants. You also need to be mindful of the scoring blade if you have it raised and use it. I've seen it too many times where a guy goes to use the scoring blade and forgets to pull the table back far enough and it starts to take the piece of wood from their hands.

For me I'll stick with my contractor saw and will one day upgrade to a sawstop or if some other manufacturer ever comes out with the flesh sensing technology I might consider them. For now though what I have serves my needs very well.

[David Kumm]

Go to www.airtightclamps.com (http://www.airtightclamps.com) and see how to hold the work with a slider. Dave

[Bradley Gray]

I have an older powermatic 66 with a 52" bessmeier fence. If I had room for both I would have a slider too but I wouldn't give up the 66. I bought the saw for $600. on ebay. There are a lot of these older saws around at reasonable prices.

[Steve Mellott]

WOW! Thanks for al the great feedback and information. It appears I have a little more research and a lot more thinking to do. Thanks again.

[Rod Sheridan]

WOW! Thanks for al the great feedback and information. It appears I have a little more research and a lot more thinking to do. Thanks again.

Hi Steve, this video is watching even though it's long, it will give you a good idea of how a slider is used..........Rod.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eV8A3XK3R0I

[Jim Foster]

Tom, what brand slider is that? Did you have to modify the motor cover? Thanks


Over 20 years ago I went from the small contractor's saw to a cabinet saw with a sliding table. This combo is a cheap version of a slider. But if you cut a lot of square cuts (and who doesn't) it is a wonderful time saver. Sliding tables are available for many table saws.

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[John Leake]

I would suggest as does Bradley in the prior post to look for a used saw. Powermatic 66's come up for sale regularly, not as often as unisaws. I got a lightly used Unisaw 3hp for $700 with a Unifence on it a year ago. The saw only needed clean up and lubrication, as well as remedial work on the right hand table extension (particle board that sagged - easily fixed with a welded up lattice support). A sawstop in my opinion is nice, but expensive and I have not seen one for saw used.

As far as a sliding table, I would say you can build a "cross cut sled" for much less that works great. I have made two of them out of baltic birch plywood and would build another in a heart beat if I got another saw. Use 1/2" ply as the base, laminate front and rear fences to 1" thick and carefully glue them up square to the saw slit in the base (make it first after adding something to slide in the miter groves).

[Eric D Matson]

I believe I have seen a picture of a Saw Stop with a sliding table attachment. How well does this option work? I have been eyeballing the Saw Stop PCS but now you guys have a studying the sliding table saws. Would this be a viable solution or would it be best to do one or the other. The sliding table saw looks like it would be really nice for a SLR but I can do the same thing with a straightedge. Just curious.

[Loren Woirhaye]

A format style sliding table saw is a special class of machine. The table is right up next to the blade. I have used mine with a vacuum jig to rip 36" x 3" wide parts tapering from 3/8" to 3/16" thick. The parts came out clean enough to laminate right off the saw. That's a special furnituremaking type application of a format slider. You can mount a tenon jig on one but of course you can do that with a miter gauge too. Modern format sliders were invented in Europe and while they are well suited to joinery and squaring panels, what they really were designed for is ripping of square edges to very accurate tolerances for edgebanding. The edges you can get turn out squarer and straighter than most operators can get with a rip fence. I've thought about it a bit and I think the format slider is awkward for ripping narrower boards since it can't be fitted with a zero clearance throat plate there is a lack of support right adjacent to the blade on both sides. The gap is quite long due to allowances for scoring units and the riving knife in the back. I am fond of the way the fence can be retracted to use as a stop or just not to interfere with solid wood bending towards the fence as it is ripped, which prevents binding.

[Rick Markham]

I went through this decision recently, I weighed all of the major cabinet saws with 3HP or more. I ended up with a Grizzly G0623X slider. It will take nearly a full dado stack, is 5HP, will crosscut a full sheet easily and with a Digital table saw fence the thing is dead on with rip cuts. It's footprint is small and fits wondefully in the space I use it. Yes it's weird not having a miter slot on the right side, do I miss it? Only very rarely, and so far I have always found a better way to do it with the sliding table. Yeah, you have to rethink the tablesaw a bit, but it's an advantage. Not very many saws allow the user so much flexibility. After setting mine up, it has been nothing but a dream to use (I've been using it regularly for a year now) dare I say I like it more than my Kapex, and that IS a statement! My vote is if you can swing a slider, especially one that will take a dado stack, jump on it and don't look back!!!

[Chris Fournier]

I currently have a slider and it is three times the saw (by weight and volume) that my cabinet saw was which was a General 350. I wish that I had had room to keep that General because there are ways of working on it that are so much easier than the slider at times. Most all of the issue is with regards to ripping. I have come to terms with this and moved on to the slider.

Cross cut sleds work very well on cabinet saws but full sheet goods are always a wrestling match. This being said I think that a smaller slider would be my choice over a conventional cabinet saw of equal quality if I only had room for one or the other.

I hope that you enjoy your new saw.

[Frank Drew]

If you spend half an hour using a slider any regular table saw will seem unbearable to use from that point on.


98% of everything I do is solid stock for furniture. Although the slider shines working with sheet goods, the large crosscut table and miter stops makes every aspect of joinery (especially angled joinery) dead on and a breeze.

Joe and Dominic pretty much sum up my feelings; I upgraded from a larger Powermatic to a German sliding table saw that crosscut to 54", fine for me because I didn't use sheet good all that often but appreciated the very accurate crosscutting my new saw gave me for both sheet and solid. And I could mount a full dado set, which was my preferred method for cutting tenons.