which planer sled do i need?

[Brandon Hanley]

i just got my steel city 13" benchtop planer to help with making body and neck blanks for guitar building. As soon as ups dropped it off i started looking for planer sled plans and i find 2 very different versions of planer sleds. One is much more complex with multiple layers of mdf, a bungi cord and all sorts of other dodads while the other is simply a sheet of mdf with a piece of scrap screwed to the side that goes through the planer first. Will the simple version work for what i want to do or do i need the more complex version?

im also wondering if there is any difference between planing pieces that are the length i need for each body or neck blank, or if i should be running a whole board through then cutting that down to the length i need for the blank?

[glenn bradley]

Let's assume you are trying to use the sled because you don't have a jointer . .. is that right? If so, the purpose of the sled is to support the uneven surface in order to simulate a "good" reference surface for the opposite surface to be planed to. That sounded confusing . . . let me try this: the sled must fully support your stock so that it doesn't rock or teeter-totter while passing through the planer. Once the surface being milled is flat, you ditch the sled and use that flat surface as a reference surface to plane the opposite side parallel.

I used the simple version for about a month, a board with screws. You raised the screws until they touched the uneven parts of the reference surface. If the sled board is just flat, there is no real need for it at all. There must be an adjusting method - shims, screws or cleats and wedges - to support the uneven board and allow the planer to flatten the exposed surface.

After enough fooling around, I took a few hours and built Keith Rust's version (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?58735-Planer-Sled-2-0) and it has served me ever since. If you want to forgo the "fooling around" phase, just take a Saturday morning and knock one out. There's a link to Keith's version in the thread I linked in this post ;-)

276865 . 276866 . 276867 . 276868 . 276869

[Andrew Pitonyak]

You asked how long the board should be when you run it through. Go to google and lookup the term

planer snipe

I would provide a link, but certain links are not allowed here.

Bottom line, it is common for a planer to take a bit too much off each end. So, you need to have enough that you can cut off the piece that has the "divot".

After you figure out how much extra you need to leave to cut to size and avoid things like planer snipe (if you have it with your plane), then you will understand how long your planer sled must be. It was already mentioned that the idea behind the sled is to make sure that you remove things like "twist" and "cup" from the board (so I won't go into that).

You can start with a simple planer sled and then make something more advanced if you need it. Give these a read / look.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?181141-Planer-sled-and-hot-melt-glue
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?77612-Plans-for-a-planer-sled-to-use-for-jointing
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?51308-Thickness-planer-sled
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?141586-Wood-Whisperer-s-Planer-Sled

I built something trivial and then I use shims.

[Brandon Hanley]

Let's assume you are trying to use the sled because you don't have a jointer . .. is that right? yes. but now your question has me wondering what the real reason for a planer is if this is a job for a jointer. i was under the impression the jointer was for preparing an edge on 2 pieces of wood to be glued together, and the planer was for making sure the top and bottom surfaces of the wood were perfectly parallel/uniform thickness and removing bow or warping. i was also under the impression that the jointer was really only usefull for truing the first edge of the wood to then run it through the planer without needing the sled.


If so, the purpose of the sled is to support the uneven surface in order to simulate a "good" reference surface for the opposite surface to be planed to. That sounded confusing . . . let me try this: the sled must fully support your stock so that it doesn't rock or teeter-totter while passing through the planer. Once the surface being milled is flat, you ditch the sled and use that flat surface as a reference surface to plane the opposite side parallel.i understand the use of the sled, i just dont understand what warrants the need for the more complicated sled over the simple one.


I used the simple version for about a month, a board with screws. You raised the screws until they touched the uneven parts of the reference surface. If the sled board is just flat, there is no real need for it at all. There must be an adjusting method - shims, screws or cleats and wedges - to support the uneven board and allow the planer to flatten the exposed surface. this is the simple one i was talking about that just uses shims/wedges and hot glue.


You asked how long the board should be when you run it through. Go to google and lookup the term planer snipe im aware of the term planer snipe but thought that snipe was usually mostly eliminated with proper setup and leveling of the infeed/outfeed tables. the majority of reviews on this planer mentioned snipe was virtually non existent with only a 5-10 minute setup. besides snipe is there any reason to plane cut to length pieces vs planing the whole board then cutting to length?


I built something trivial and then I use shims. thats kind of what i was hoping for with the amount of wood i'll need to plane yearly. with the costs associated with guitar building i dont expect to need to plane boards for more than 3 body's and necks per year

[Charlie Velasquez]

.... i was under the impression the jointer was for preparing an edge on 2 pieces of wood to be glued together, and the planer was for making sure the top and bottom surfaces of the wood were perfectly parallel/uniform thickness and removing bow or warping. i was also under the impression that the jointer was really only usefull for truing the first edge of the wood to then run it through the planer......

The planer ensures the opposite faces are equidistant. The rollers exert pressure as the board passes the cutters. That said, if you have a twist on the bottom face, the planer will make sure the top face mimics the bottom. So you need to start out with one flat face. That is the job of the jointer, or in this case the base of your sled.
Generally, you will use your jointer to flatten one face, use that face against you jointer fance to joint an edge perpendicular to that face, take the board to the planer to get the opposite face parallel, then take it to your saw to get the width square (a lot of folk use the saw to get it about 1/16" of width, then back to the jointer to get to final width).

[Ethan Melad]

yes. but now your question has me wondering what the real reason for a planer is if this is a job for a jointer. i was under the impression the jointer was for preparing an edge on 2 pieces of wood to be glued together, and the planer was for making sure the top and bottom surfaces of the wood were perfectly parallel/uniform thickness and removing bow or warping. i was also under the impression that the jointer was really only usefull for truing the first edge of the wood to then run it through the planer without needing the sled.

in short, the jointer will provide a flat surface on a board. this flat surface can the be used as a reference to create a parallel opposite surface. in general, most would use a jointer to flatten one face of a board and use that as a reference (face down, flat to the table) in the planer. thus, 2 sides will be parallel. then one edge is jointed, and used as reference edge against the fence on the table saw. thus, 2 edges will be parallel. you now have 4 square and flat sides.

edit: sort of got beaten to it...

[Andrew Pitonyak]

...

i understand the use of the sled, i just dont understand what warrants the need for the more complicated sled over the simple one.

this is the simple one i was talking about that just uses shims/wedges and hot glue.

im aware of the term planer snipe but thought that snipe was usually mostly eliminated with proper setup and leveling of the infeed/outfeed tables. the majority of reviews on this planer mentioned snipe was virtually non existent with only a 5-10 minute setup. besides snipe is there any reason to plane cut to length pieces vs planing the whole board then cutting to length?

thats kind of what i was hoping for with the amount of wood i'll need to plane yearly. with the costs associated with guitar building i dont expect to need to plane boards for more than 3 body's and necks per year

Always expect snipe. Great if you avoid it, but, I can tell you that it is really annoying when you cut it close and then you have two inches of snipe on one end....

If you are using the sled to do the job of the jointer, then you set the board on the sled and then use shims (or similar) to support the uneven sections so that you can create one side that is flat. When you flip it over onto the flat side, you don't really need the sled anymore.

The advantage of the "nice" sled is simply that it is easier to shim. If your wood is already very close to flat, then only minimal shimming is required. If you run a lot of wood, then it would be more important.

[Brandon Hanley]

thanks for all the help. this cleared up a lot for me.

[glenn bradley]

Lots of good info here. As stated a jointer makes things flat, a planer makes the unflat surface parallel to the flat surface. A planer sled allows those if us who do not have really wide jointers to "face joint" wider stock.

All the more complex sled does is allow quicker setup and a more versatile transport so that you spend time planing and don't spend time gluing and un-gluing or shimming/taping/un-shimming (is that a word?) things.

You are correct that a good quality planer that is properly setup will not give you snipe. I have not had snipe off a planer since I can remember. Why live with it or use workarounds if you can just adjust it out? I agree that there are machines, the Delta "Snipe-master" comes to mind, that just cannot avoid snipe. The Steel City is very much like the Ridgid that folks really like and I don't recall endless threads about people fighting snipe with them.

On some planers, the infeed / outfeed tables can be elevated at the outer edges to help with snipe problems. On my DeWalt DW734, a straight edge laid through the feed path and resting on the outer edges of the tables (unplug your machine for this) would be a fat 1/8" off the platen. This planer also had a carriage lock which is nearly a must for small planers as they don't have the mass to resist much force.

[Brandon Hanley]

Lots of good info here. As stated a jointer makes things flat, a planer makes the unflat surface parallel to the flat surface. A planer sled allows those if us who do not have really wide jointers to "face joint" wider stock. Yea, i guess ill be using the sled method for quite a while. As much as i'd love to have a jointer after reading this thread, i just cant justify the cost. I'd need atleast an 8" jointer for what i want to do (2 piece guitar bodies) and the cheapest one i found in a name i've heard of was a 8" jet jointer for $400. As a single tool purchase that doesnt sound all that bad but.... Im just putting tools together to get into the hobby and started with just a jigsaw 2 months ago and have been dumping money left and right just to get a simple shop put together in my basement. in the past 2 months i've bought
bench
jet drill press
ryobi tablesaw
ridgid oscillating spindle sander
steel city 13" planer
20v matrix drill
grizzly router table w/ skill router and a few bits i needed
14" grizzly anniversary bandsaw
countless small things like sanders, chisels, and things like that
and probably close to $750 worth of guitar specialty tools from stewmac.com

that said i think i need to build something before anymore large purchases.


All the more complex sled does is allow quicker setup and a more versatile transport so that you spend time planing and don't spend time gluing and un-gluing or shimming/taping/un-shimming (is that a word?) things. ill see how the simple sled setup works out for me and go from there. i like simple untill simple starts taking forever.


You are correct that a good quality planer that is properly setup will not give you snipe. I have not had snipe off a planer since I can remember. Why live with it or use workarounds if you can just adjust it out? I agree that there are machines, the Delta "Snipe-master" comes to mind, that just cannot avoid snipe. The Steel City is very much like the Ridgid that folks really like and I don't recall endless threads about people fighting snipe with them. I've read nothing but good reviews on forums and also read of a few people calling steel city with questions and having the ceo or president or someone like that, that you would never expect answer the phone and actually know what they are talking about. i've got alot of tool setup and learning to do yet before i start anything major.


On some planers, the infeed / outfeed tables can be elevated at the outer edges to help with snipe problems. On my DeWalt DW734, a straight edge laid through the feed path and resting on the outer edges of the tables (unplug your machine for this) would be a fat 1/8" off the platen. This planer also had a carriage lock which is nearly a must for small planers as they don't have the mass to resist much force. i was under the impression that when adjusting the tables the goal was to make them perfectly level with the bottom of the planer? i've got alot of reading to do....

[johnny means]

If your building guitars, where relatively small amounts of milling need to be done, hand flattening is a perfectly viable option. Really, how many square feet of surface does a guitar have? A cheap jack plane and a good sharpening stone will get you just as flat as a jointer.

[Brandon Hanley]

i'd end up with a hand plane addiction.

truth is i was inspired to build by a guy that uses only hand tools and originally planned to do the same but soon realized it wouldnt be much cheaper and would require allot more skill. i already had a basic idea of what power tools do what but when it comes to hand tools im lost. in the future when im a bit more skilled i'd love to own a few planes though.

[Steve Milito]

i'd end up with a hand plane addiction.



It's inevitable anyway.

[Sam Stephens]

cheap sled definitely -melamine shelf (12" wide) w/ a 1/2" thick cleat screwed into the front. shims suck -use hot glue to level the board and remove the teeter. it scrapes off of melamine easily (but will tear mdf over time). setup your planer for no snipe -it's worth the effort.

the skill involved in face jointing by hand is minimal, especially if your goal is to run it through the planer anyways. the board doesn't have to be dead flat -just mostly flat w/ no teeter.

[Charlie Velasquez]

Goal to flatten thin work??
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=949402&PMAKA=640-0120

Enco inspection plate. On sale. I usually find free shipping codes or wait till they send me a promo.

PSA some sandpaper on it and have at it!

[Joe Hillmann]

The simple sled would work for planing work that is thinner than you planer allows for the not so simple sled is for doing the work of a jointer.