New LV Saws Are Here!

[Maurice Ungaro]

Just spotted this while killing time at work!
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=71370&cat=51&ap=1

[Chris Griggs]

Hey. So is the Norris wooden plane kit: http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=71379&cat=51&ap=1

Cool. But i will wait....I have spent waaaayyyyy to much money on tools lately.

[Maurice Ungaro]

Yup...saw that too. I would normally have waited for these saws (at least the rip version), but lucked out on a nice one from Ron Bontz, and well...I'm not looking back! Two totally different leagues of saws, but I'm holding.

[Mike Henderson]

Hey. So is the Norris wooden plane kit: http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=71379&cat=51&ap=1

Cool. But i will wait....I have spent waaaayyyyy to much money on tools lately.

Hummm, I wonder if this can be adapted to already made wooden planes. One of the issues with wooden planes is getting the iron adjusted and this would make it easier. I have a couple of wooden planes that I'd like to modify.

Mike

[Chris Friesen]

Pretty good price on the saws...basically you get the pair for the price of one Lie-Nielsen, and less than the price of a Wenzloff.

[lowell holmes]

Pretty good price on the saws...basically you get the pair for the price of one Lie-Nielsen, and less than the price of a Wenzloff.

Wonder I they planned it that way?

[Rich Harkrader]

Ordered my set! Less than my Lie Nielsen tenon saw by itself.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

It can easily be changed by filing, but my only quibble with these is the rather relaxed rake, similar to other LV saws. That would feel painfully slow compared to the rake on all my other rip saws. But I'm still thinking I might bite, but I'll probably miss the intro price unless I can get some more overtime.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Hmmmmm. Looks very much like a Bontz saw with a "plastic" spine. (Yes, yes, I know- it's some sort of polymer with metal powder in it, but still it looks like black plastic.) Don't get me wrong- I love the look. Very sexy. I do not accuse but sure looks influenced by Mr. Bontz's saws.

I find the dovetail saws a bit flexy. I hope such is not the case with the tenon saws. I am glad they made it in crosscut. I will probably spring for one and check it out but not until after we finish closing on the new house and shop.

As as for the plane hardware kit, it seems you could use it to make an infill plane and just add a brass or bronze cap iron. Am I wrong?

[Chris Griggs]

Actually, I believe it is influenced by a Disston No. 9 backsaw.....just without the Regan patent tote.

276749

[Hilton Ralphs]

lucked out on a nice one from Ron Bontz, and well...I'm not looking
You sound like you're married to the saw! ;)

Seriously though, what did you get and what about a picture?

[Marko Milisavljevic]

Well, I've been putting off getting tenon saws since I found out that these were being designed. I got the set today and they are exactly what you'd expect if you have other LV saws. Screws holding saw plate in front have split nuts, which is not mentioned on the website, if anyone cares. $175 intro price for the pair was hard to resist, since I knew I'd be getting both eventually anyway.

[Hilton Ralphs]

Congrats Marko, you're probably the first person to own a production version.

[Marko Milisavljevic]

Living 15 minutes from a Lee Valley store is a curse I do not wish on anyone.

[peter Joseph]

I love LV and am sure performance-wise they hold their own against a LN, but damn are they ugly lol

Peter

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I got the set today and they are exactly what you'd expect if you have other LV saws.

Can we assume that is a good thing? Are they flexy? That is my concern.

[Marko Milisavljevic]

I'm no expert so take this for little it is worth. I only used them for a few minutes to rip and crosscut some ~ 2x5" big leaf maple. Didn't feel flexy. Of course they are going to be somewhat flexible at that plate size, but while using it there was a secure and solid feeling, not at all wobbly. I found them as easy to use as LV carcass saws - very user friendly. I got the toe stuck once once due to my own carelessness - pulled it out all the way by accident and jammed it back in - and results were a lot more dramatic than using a carcass saw, again due to much more plate being exposed in front, but no permanent damage. I never used high end modern boutique saws so I can't compare with that.

[Maurice Ungaro]

Hilton, I'll post a picture in another thread, as I want to keep this one focused on Rob's fine products. I'll try to get that up today, if possible.

[john davey]

I am a little concerned with he handle. Honestly if this set came out last year I would have purchased it in a heartbeat. But I ran out of time to wait and bought a LN 16"rip saw and am very happy with it. I need a cc version and was going to pull the trigger on the tapered cc LN has. I went to one of their shows and it has a tiny handle on it that hurt my hand. So I passed on it and now am wondering about the size of this one. I guess I could always buy it and if it doesn't feel right I can sell it after the intro and probably get most of my money back. I wish we had a LV near us like Marko did. Yes I would be broke but what the hell :).

Marko, could you do me a favore and measure the handle for me? I would like to know the distance between the horns at the top and bottom. Thanks, John....

[Maurice Ungaro]

John, Lee Valley's customer service is top notch. If you are not happy with it, they will take the saw back and refund you your money.

[Rob Lee]

I am a little concerned with he handle. Honestly if this set came out last year I would have purchased it in a heartbeat. But I ran out of time to wait and bought a LN 16"rip saw and am very happy with it. I need a cc version and was going to pull the trigger on the tapered cc LN has. I went to one of their shows and it has a tiny handle on it that hurt my hand. So I passed on it and now am wondering about the size of this one. I guess I could always buy it and if it doesn't feel right I can sell it after the intro and probably get most of my money back. I wish we had a LV near us like Marko did. Yes I would be broke but what the hell :).

Marko, could you do me a favore and measure the handle for me? I would like to know the distance between the horns at the top and bottom. Thanks, John....

John -

Buy with confidence, return without guilt. That's what we're here for.

Rob

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

If the major issue is the horn-to-horn space, looks like there's still enough meat in there to open it a bit. Are these handles removable from the molded spine like the open-tote handles were?

[Adam Petersen]

Rob,
I am curious about the production of the saws. They've been in the works for a bit now and if I remember correctly they were giving you a bit of trouble in early stages. I'm curious as to what kind of issues you had, if they were in the design or something else. The reason I ask, is, as mentioned by others, I'd be tempted to file a more aggressive rake on the rip saw. Is this going to cause issues? Are you happy with the way they turned out and perform then? I figured you wouldn't send them out if you weren't, but am curious about the earlier trepidations. If you can't or don't want to say I understand completely and I'm not trying to put you on the spot or anything. I'm ordering them one way or another. Thanks,

Adam

[john davey]

Thanks, Rob, I am fully aware of your over the top great policies. And if my hand was to big for the handle I would not have guilt returning it as I do believe that would fall into the acceptable reasons. I just am hoping to avoid the issue if it is going to need to be returned. If I do not get an answer to the measurements I am going to buy it as I have been anxiously awaiting it like many others here. Thanks, John


John -

Buy with confidence, return without guilt. That's what we're here for.

Rob

[john davey]

Yes, that was the issue with the LN I looked at. For some reason they used a different handle on the tapered cc saw then on the tapered or non tapered tenon saw. Yes there seemed to be meat on the handle to modify it an the LN as well and that will be an option for either LN or LV if need be.


If the major issue is the horn-to-horn space, looks like there's still enough meat in there to open it a bit. Are these handles removable from the molded spine like the open-tote handles were?

[Richard Shaefer]

this is possibly the most petty gripe I could possibly offer, but the brass screws on the spine don't have the slots set parallel.
I'm sure it's easy to adjust, but argh. It'd be super sweet if the screw slots were set parallel to the spine on the rip saw and perpendicuar to the spine on the crosscut so you could know at a moment's glance when you grab one of two otherwise identical saws out a till where you can't see the teeth.

[Chris Friesen]

Anyone know what the screws are for? Is the saw plate removable?

[Bill Houghton]

this is possibly the most petty gripe I could possibly offer, but the brass screws on the spine don't have the slots set parallel.
I'm sure it's easy to adjust, but argh. It'd be super sweet if the screw slots were set parallel to the spine on the rip saw and perpendicuar to the spine on the crosscut so you could know at a moment's glance when you grab one of two otherwise identical saws out a till where you can't see the teeth.
I bet you could adjust this yourself once you owned them.

And, to Chris Friesen's question, I don't know, but I suspect that LV found they needed the extra grip out there on the end of the back.

[Curt Putnam]

John, I just called CS and the nice lady said that the handle wood is exactly the same as all their other saws. If they fit, you'll be fine.

My dilemma is that the saw handles are too small for me - the bottom of the horn digs into my hand. I really want the saws though.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

On the open-handled saws, it looks really easy to make new handles from scratch - at least, a whole lot easier than slotting and mortising for a back and such as with a traditional handled-saw. Heck, if nothing else, popping a different-colored wood handle on the saw could help identify rip and cross-cut at a glance.

[john davey]

Curt, thanks for that. Looks like more of my hard earned cash is on it's way to the great white north :).

Actually I had to work during the Gov't shutdown (I am a Gov't contractor). the rest of my company was paid to stay home while I worked. My boss gave me a little reward for this. Nothing earth shattering but I will have a new cc saw and the narex paring chisels I already purchased thanks to that. So I am happy :).


John, I just called CS and the nice lady said that the handle wood is exactly the same as all their other saws. If they fit, you'll be fine.

My dilemma is that the saw handles are too small for me - the bottom of the horn digs into my hand. I really want the saws though.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Anyone know what the screws are for? Is the saw plate removable?

My question as well. I thought the spine was moulded to the blade on their saws. Why the screws?

I still think they look great, and the price is hard to beat.

[Rob Lee]

Rob,
I am curious about the production of the saws. They've been in the works for a bit now and if I remember correctly they were giving you a bit of trouble in early stages. I'm curious as to what kind of issues you had, if they were in the design or something else. The reason I ask, is, as mentioned by others, I'd be tempted to file a more aggressive rake on the rip saw. Is this going to cause issues? Are you happy with the way they turned out and perform then? I figured you wouldn't send them out if you weren't, but am curious about the earlier trepidations. If you can't or don't want to say I understand completely and I'm not trying to put you on the spot or anything. I'm ordering them one way or another. Thanks,

Adam

Hi Adam -

The issues were primarily cosmetic. Some material flow issues in the mold, and some shrinkage issues as the spine cooled - caused some tin-canning of the blades. Not enough to affect performance - but a visual issue for sure.

As for sharpening - file away however you like.... they're meant to be re-sharpened!

In fact - if you wear it out, I'll give you a new one (if I'm still around).

Cheers -

Rob

[Rob Lee]

Anyone know what the screws are for? Is the saw plate removable?

Hi Chris -

Yes, and no.....

Saw plate is not removable. I can't say what the screws are for .... but they are not for decoration. I promised I'd tell Pedder when I see him in Germany - so can't go posting to a board he reads....

Cheers -

Rob

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

What does "tin canning" mean in this context?



In fact - if you wear it out, I'll give you a new one (if I'm still around).


That sounds like a challenge . . .

[Rob Lee]

Hi -

Those are visual ripples (usually in a reflection) usually as a result of expansion or contraction. I borrowed it form a builder friend of mine....

Here it is used in another context (but still referring to ripples) .... http://www.pffc-online.com/blog/walker/10880-eliminating-tin-canning-rings-on-your-wound-rolls

Ours were no where near that pronounced - and were mostly up by the spine.... a gentle wave of a thou or so each way...

Cheers -

Rob

[Adam Petersen]

Thank you for the respone Rob. You'll be happy to know that your company has made me a 7 year old boy again waiting for Christmas morning. Between these saws, a BUS, and several other assorted items, my wife is spoiling me good. I hope you're nearly out of new things cause I'm tapped for cash.

[Rob Lee]

Thank you for the respone Rob. You'll be happy to know that your company has made me a 7 year old boy again waiting for Christmas morning. Between these saws, a BUS, and several other assorted items, my wife is spoiling me good. I hope you're nearly out of new things cause I'm tapped for cash.

Hi Adam -

We'll give it a rest for a while now ....

... let me know if you need help spoiling your wife in return.... we could probably find a way to help with that too.... :)

Cheers -

Rob

[Jim Leslie]

Living 15 minutes from a Lee Valley store is a curse I do not wish on anyone.

I feel your pain. I used to have to mail order; now I'm about 25 minutes from an LV store. It's far too convenient and I think my wife longs for the good old days..

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Hi Chris -

Yes, and no.....

Saw plate is not removable. I can't say what the screws are for .... but they are not for decoration. I promised I'd tell Pedder when I see him in Germany - so can't go posting to a board he reads....

Cheers -

Rob

hmmmmm... Perhaps an add-on accessory? A saw sharpening guide? A laser aiming device? (Please say no to the laser aiming device)

[Peter Pedisich]

hmmmmm... Perhaps an add-on accessory? A saw sharpening guide? A laser aiming device? (Please say no to the laser aiming device)

Mitre Saw guide?

[Chris Griggs]

Mitre Saw guide?

I'm guessing that and/or tenon cutting guide. Either would be a very "Veritas" thing to do. A miter box/miter attachment of some kind would likely sway me to buy one of the saws.

[Maurice Ungaro]

You know...I've thought about a "what if" scenario for a while. Like...what if Lee Valley made a mitre box that could accomodate traditional backed saws.

[Tom Millington]

Well, mine arrived today and it's bad news for those of us with large-ish hands. I have the dovetail and carcass saws and though a bit tight, they are comfortable to use. Unfortunately the lower horn on the tenon saws pokes into my palm in a way that could be pretty uncomfortable while sawing a number of tenons. I figured the larger saws would have handles at least as big as the smaller versions. I'll play with them a bit over the weekend before deciding whether to send them back.


Carcass saw
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu84/stinkfoot/b75a90c715c0a5ac243f763e3bb46b14.jpg

Tenon saw
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu84/stinkfoot/017203ad30468800cbf333cb13c8f86c.jpg

[Mike Tekin]

Tom,

Thats a bummer - my hands arent that small either:( What size glove do you wear? Or how wide is your hand?

[Tom Millington]

I usually wear 2XL gloves. My hand measures 4 1/8" across the center of my palm.

[Hilton Ralphs]

My hand is just under 4" (standard size as per Badaxe) and I found the dovetail saws too uncomfortable to hold. I also assumed that these new handles would be a tad larger.

[Marko Milisavljevic]

Marko, could you do me a favore and measure the handle for me? I would like to know the distance between the horns at the top and bottom. Thanks, John....

Here is picture of handle diagram that comes with the saw. I assume LV will shortly post the PDF on their website as they do with all other tools.

https://db.tt/AoFKtgKp

If it looks wavy it is because I retrieved crumpled paper from garbage, I can assure you sides of the handle are flat and parallel.

Judging by complaints about the size, LV should consider selling a large size handle as an option. I find it about right, and my hand is 3 7/8" wide.

[Marko Milisavljevic]

If the major issue is the horn-to-horn space, looks like there's still enough meat in there to open it a bit. Are these handles removable from the molded spine like the open-tote handles were?

They are removable and a little work with rasp/spokeshave would easily customize it for wider hands, I'd think. I don't know what you'd refinish it with easily to blend with existing finish, lacquer of some kind.

[Marko Milisavljevic]

this is possibly the most petty gripe I could possibly offer, but the brass screws on the spine don't have the slots set parallel.
I'm sure it's easy to adjust, but argh. It'd be super sweet if the screw slots were set parallel to the spine on the rip saw and perpendicuar to the spine on the crosscut so you could know at a moment's glance when you grab one of two otherwise identical saws out a till where you can't see the teeth.

Just carve "RIP" or "X" on the spine (with a dull screwdriver, preferably :p)

[Ryan Baker]

It looks like a little reshaping or a whole new handle wouldn't be too hard. I wouldn't let that stop me if I otherwise liked the saw. But it would be nice for LV to offer a larger handle option (for all of their saws).

[john davey]

Marko, thank you for this. It is a great help.... John

Here is picture of handle diagram that comes with the saw. I assume LV will shortly post the PDF on their website as they do with all other tools.

https://db.tt/AoFKtgKp

If it looks wavy it is because I retrieved crumpled paper from garbage, I can assure you sides of the handle are flat and parallel.

Judging by complaints about the size, LV should consider selling a large size handle as an option. I find it about right, and my hand is 3 7/8" wide.

[Rob Lee]

I usually wear 2XL gloves. My hand measures 4 1/8" across the center of my palm.

Hi Tom -

Go ahead and have at 'em with a rasp/files... I'll make sure you get full credit for a return if you still can't get a comfortable fit. There is enough "extra" wood on the handle that you should be able to shape it to fit.

It's tough to nail a "one size fits all" in any handle shape/design. In some of our products (spokeshaves for one) we offer handle interface kits to allow people to make their own.

Adding additional sizes would increase costs substantially. In addtion to multiplying the inventory, it would increase unit prices, carrying costs, and significantly increase returns/shipping costs - something we see in any product that has "sizes". Standard return rates for clothing (for example) are 30% throiugh the mail... tough to swallow when we refund shipping and pay the return postage.

It's been my experience that woodworkers are really reluctant to modify the handles/grip surfaces on the tools they buy. From a manufacturing standpoint - it's one of the reasons we choose wood! Wood is not a "good" material to manufacture with - highly variable, difficult to finish, difficult to hold tolerances on, and more expensive than alternatives.

I would have no problem taking returns of a tool where people made an honest effort to try and keep the product by trying a modification of the wooden parts.

Cheers -

Rob

[Mike Tekin]

Rob, what kind of finish is used on the handles? - im going to order and just incase will customize to my liking...

[Rob Lee]

Rob, what kind of finish is used on the handles? - im going to order and just incase will customize to my liking...

Hi Mike -

Finish spec is:

1) PART TO BE SANDED TO 120 GRIT AND LIGHTLY SANDED BETWEEEN SEALER AND LACQUER COATS.
2) PART SHALL BE SEALED WITH STANDARD SPRAY SEALER,(OR APPROVED EQUIVALENT).SEALER SHALL BE
SMOOTH, UNIFORM OVER SEALED SURFACE AND SHALL NOT LIFT THE FINAL LACQUER COATING. (OR
APPROVED EQUIVALENT).
3) PART SHALL BE FINISHED WITH A MINIMUM OF 2 COATS OF SATIN MATTE LACQUER, (OR APPROVED
EQUIVALENT). LACQUER COATING SHALL SHOW NO TENDENCY OF SELF-LIFTING.


Most likely a solvent based cellulose lacquer, but am seeing if we can nail it down further....

Cheers -

Rob

[Jim Leslie]

I just came back from my local LV store. I went to buy my wife a birdfeeder, but after looking at these pair of saws and trying them out in the store, I caved and got the pair. They're great! (I also got the birdfeeder..)

[Rich Harkrader]

I just got my pair of saws in the mail today, and am somewhat disappointed. The handle on the rip saw does not fit the saw very well. There's a gap of about 3/16" or so on the bottom. It's very noticeable and really detracts from the appearance of the saw. It also looks like sawdust could get in there easily and cause the post to rust potentially.

Here's what I'm talking about:

277049

The crosscut saw has a bit of a gap, but nowhere near as bad:
277050

I thought I could just tighten the handle, since the nut was finger loose out of the box, but that didn't help at all. There's not much flex where it attaches to the sawplate. :(

[Matt Stiegler]

Did you try contacting LV first?

[paul cottingham]

LV will make it right. Just get in touch with them.

[Leigh Betsch]

This is mostly a saw post but did anyone see the price on that plane kit! A Norris adjuster, blade, knobs and all. For $40, that's a great price. Can't make them for that.

[David Silverson]

Tom my hand is the same size as yours.I will buy the saws but don't expect reshaping the handle with files/rasps will be a satisfactory fix.I will probably try to glue on an extra bit of wood and then reshape it.

[Marko Milisavljevic]

The handle on the rip saw does not fit the saw very well. There's a gap of about 3/16" or so on the bottom. It's very noticeable and really detracts from the appearance of the saw. It also looks like sawdust could get in there easily and cause the post to rust potentially.

Both of mine look like your crosscut, and I think gap is there by design. Your rip saw looks off to me.

[john davey]

Well, since I started the size of the handle questioning I guess I should chime in now that my saw has arrived. My hand measures right at 4 inches and the saw is comfortable to me right out of the box :). It is very close to digging in at the bottom but it just fits without rubbing. Sorry for the bad pic. It actually is not that easy to take a pic of your hand holding a saw properly with the other hand :)....

277803

[Eugenio Musto]

Wow It fits perfectly!It seems that LV used your hand to shape the handle:)

[Mike Carino]

I`m going to order these saws, I have large hands but I don't have a problem reshaping the handle to fit. I`ll probably stain and or finish them differently too, so I can tell the difference between rip and crosscut at a glance.

[Hilton Ralphs]

So who else is pulling the trigger on these? I'm intrigued by those two brass nuts on the spine and Rob is not letting on.

[Kurt Cady]

So who else is pulling the trigger on these? I'm intrigued by those two brass nuts on the spine and Rob is not letting on.

Somewhere he said that in previous versions the saw plate was wavy with a full contact spine. The end of the plate is loose in the spine and the screws clamp down on the plate

[Charles Bjorgen]

So who else is pulling the trigger on these? I'm intrigued by those two brass nuts on the spine and Rob is not letting on.
Mine arrived last week. Handle size is fine for me. Did a rip cut on a 16-inch piece of red oak and the cut was nice and straight. I'm done buying saws though. Need to make a till to house the ones I now have.

[Eric Erb]

john, you're a woodworker. You could make your own tote.


I am a little concerned with he handle. Honestly if this set came out last year I would have purchased it in a heartbeat. But I ran out of time to wait and bought a LN 16"rip saw and am very happy with it. I need a cc version and was going to pull the trigger on the tapered cc LN has. I went to one of their shows and it has a tiny handle on it that hurt my hand. So I passed on it and now am wondering about the size of this one. I guess I could always buy it and if it doesn't feel right I can sell it after the intro and probably get most of my money back. I wish we had a LV near us like Marko did. Yes I would be broke but what the hell :).

Marko, could you do me a favore and measure the handle for me? I would like to know the distance between the horns at the top and bottom. Thanks, John....

[Dave Lehnert]

For owners of this saw that has had some time in the shop with them, What are your thoughts?
Would you buy again?
Save $$$ for a better saw?

[Eugenio Musto]

So guys, after a month of play, what's your opinion about these saws? Pro and cons?