Cabinet advice - paint, style, hardware

[Doug Herzberg]

As a stereotypical landlord, I'm notoriously cheap. I've installed several low end kitchens and made a few custom cabinets, mostly to match existing cabinets when needed. When we decided to redo the kitchen in our kids' home, I was planning to splurge on something nicer than the average rental. My daughter went out with no direction from us and came back with this:

276650

Her rationale was that they would brighten the kitchen and they look easy to clean. I was disappointed, because I love natural woods and would never consider a painted cabinet for myself or even a rental. Pretty soon, though, my natural cheapness started directing my thought process. The cabinets she has are builder grade oak with a dark stain, flat panel doors and plastic! drawers that are shot. The cabinets themselves are made of plywood and the face frames are pretty much undamaged, except some fingernail marks from people not using the handles. In addition, I have a number of similar cabinets I've pulled from other projects and just couldn't throw away.

So you see where I'm going. I can make these doors easily. I can also make nice dovetailed hardwood drawers to replace the stupid plastic things some manufacturer thought were a good idea. I can manufacture any missing or custom cabinets. Here are my questions:

1. Enamel paint or some kind of epoxy? I did a search and didn't find much on the creek about epoxy. I can spray enamel to avoid brush marks. I assume I should spray the panels before I put them in the frames. As a side note, my wife thinks I should go with melamine or thermofoil, but I do have some experience with those and it wasn't good. I'm guessing epoxy would be difficult to spray, if it can be done, and that mixing requirements and pot time would make it expensive to do any way other than all at once.

2. Inside the boxes: The floors of old cabinets can get ugly. Paint doesn't improve things much. I've worked with the champagne / maple mdf when I've had to build custom cabinets. Is there an easy way to retro this material in an old box, at least on the floor? Maybe a 1/8" sheet? Other ideas? Maybe plain white bathroom panels? I've installed ceramic floors inside sink bases in really bad cases, but that usually looks like a landlord fix.

3. The website where I found this photo showed the doors and drawers installed flush to the frame. Flush might help prevent the fingernail marks on the frame. Would this style look funny installed on the surface of the frame? Should I rabbet the edge so it doesn't look so thick? I could do flush, but it would slow me down and I don't know if I want to spend that much time on this. On the other hand, maybe it's just fear of the unknown. Which brings me to hardware.

4. Is there hardware that makes flush doors and drawers easy? I can get the size right, it's getting everything to line up in the same plane. I have done this back in the dark ages when I needed to match some 100 year old cabinets, but there was no hardware involved - all wood and stop blocks to get everything flush. I'm also thinking full extension, soft close drawer hardware, because women seem to appreciate that in the showrooms. I searched that here, too, and it looks like the real deal is $39 per drawer. Is there a better option, or can I save the expensive stuff for the heavy drawers, like silverware and go cheaper on the lesser used drawers?

Thanks for looking. All advice appreciated.

[Doug Herzberg]

I'm answering my own questions online. Full inset Euro hinges for face frame cabinets look like they'll work. Standard inset hinges look like they don't adjust much.

[Jeff Duncan]

As far as paint goes your probably going to want to look into post cat lacquer as it's pretty tough while still being user friendly.

As far as cabinet bottoms go…..how about picking up a sheet of laminate in the same color/wood grain as the sides. Cut to fit and a little spray adhesive and your done!

good luck,
JeffD

[Doug Herzberg]

As far as paint goes your probably going to want to look into post cat lacquer as it's pretty tough while still being user friendly.

As far as cabinet bottoms go…..how about picking up a sheet of laminate in the same color/wood grain as the sides. Cut to fit and a little spray adhesive and your done!

good luck,
JeffD

Thanks, Jeff, for both ideas. I don't know what post cat lacquer is, but I've heard of it, so I'll look into it.

[Mark Bolton]

Doug,
If you have a sherwin williams shop around you can ask them about Kem Aqua plus its a decent product you may available to you locally.

http://oem.sherwin-williams.com/mx/eng/oem/products/sherwood_kem_aqua_plus_white/?referringCategory=categories/wood/finishes_topcoats/

Either than or general finishes or target coatings may be another option.

Anything will be better than enamel.

[Doug Herzberg]

Thanks, Mark. I was reading up on pre and post cat lacquers and conversion varnishes and came across the SW website. As it happens, I have a niece who manages a group of SW stores and I wrote her for more info. Saw a lot of people who like the Campbell products, too, but only one distributor in Colorado.

As you can probably tell, my knowledge base is pretty dated.

[Matt Meiser]

You'd have to ask SW about the suitability for kitchen cabinetry, but I just sprayed some cabinetry with Sherwin Williams ProClassic and I'm in love the stuff now. I'm using a Fuji 4-stage system with the #5 needle set, thinning both the paint and primer 10% with just water. Primer was SW Wall and Wood as recommended by SW.

I liked it so much I volunteered to spray the base color on two benches I'm building for a donation to the school auction so the person coordinating the craft project with them can just deal with the decorative part.

[Mark Bolton]

Thanks, Mark. I was reading up on pre and post cat lacquers and conversion varnishes and came across the SW website. As it happens, I have a niece who manages a group of SW stores and I wrote her for more info. Saw a lot of people who like the Campbell products, too, but only one distributor in Colorado.

As you can probably tell, my knowledge base is pretty dated.

Doug,
We use ML Campbell a bit. Its very nice stuff, pricey. We only moved away from Campbell when we lost local distribution and would have to freight the material in. Again, its great stuff, but when you are paying a premium and then freight on top of it we had to look elsewere. Im not sure of the distribution in your area but generally you have to be setup with them as its not a product sold to retail consumers.

Im sure you'll get a lot of good information from your niece especially if she can access some of their commercial/industrial lines. Its not uncommon for the retail outlets to push enamels but there are much better options. I think Target would be a good one to look into as well. It may not be something where you want to get into a product that requires a learning curve but thats your call.

[Doug Herzberg]

Doug,
It may not be something where you want to get into a product that requires a learning curve but thats your call.

For sure. I'm not that experienced as a painter. I've done a little hobby automotive and odds and ends, but my equipment is pretty low end. That said, I'm used to it and I'm at the age where I don't want to learn new equipment if I don't have to. I will get a new respirator for this.

[Ole Anderson]

I did new cabinet doors for my son's kitchen, he (she) wanted them painted with no grain showing, so I went with soft maple frames with MDF raised panels. I'm with Matt. Used Sherwin Williams ProClassic® Alkyd Interior Enamel. It is self leveling so when we painted the existing boxes with brush and roller, it looked almost like it was sprayed. I did spray the doors and drawer fronts using a rented airless setup. Not the hardness you get from a catalyzed finish, but still real durable and looks good after 3 years. And being able to brush it allowed us to reuse the existing boxes, the backs of which were exposed in the family room. I had never used airless before, but it worked so well I painted all of his new 6 panel closet and bedroom doors (about 22 of them) with airless indoors in an unused bedroom (windows open nice breeze). So much easier than brushing them. Also some of the new waterborne alkyd paints are excellent. I just top coated using a brush 160 lf of primed crown with Benjamin Moore Advance waterborne alkyd enamel with excellent results, no need to add a leveler to get a smooth finish.

[Mike Berrevoets]

I've used SW pro classic on a few things and it worked well and was fairly easy to spray. (I'm a hobbiest with limited equipment) I've also used ML Campbell water borne BLACK for a project. (They recently changed the name) Sprayed easy but the black drove me crazy! 8 coats until I was happy enough for it to leave my shop. It was for a coworker and when I delivered the piece is was to a dimly lit basement. I could have stopped at 4 coats and he would have been happy. (But I wouldn't have been)

My last project I sprayed GF milk paint for the vanity in my kids bathroom. Not a big color selection but we just needed white. Easy to spray once I thinned it a little bit. Turned out nice and the finish seems "harder" than what I got with the SW pro classic. The GF milk paint also doesn't seem to block (stick to itself) like a normal latex paint. I'll use it again but it sure isn't cheap. I don't think the GF milk paint is "real" milk paint but I was just looking for something that I could spray without a spray booth and was available locally.

Mike

[Larry Whitlow]

You'd have to ask SW about the suitability for kitchen cabinetry, but I just sprayed some cabinetry with Sherwin Williams ProClassic and I'm in love the stuff now. I'm using a Fuji 4-stage system with the #5 needle set, thinning both the paint and primer 10% with just water. Primer was SW Wall and Wood as recommended by SW.

I liked it so much I volunteered to spray the base color on two benches I'm building for a donation to the school auction so the person coordinating the craft project with them can just deal with the decorative part.

I second what Matt says about SW ProClassic. Earlier this year I did a large kitchen with ProClassic. After discussing with the SW staff, I decided to apply by brush instead of spraying. Stuff levels out amazing well if you put it on and then leave it alone.

[Mark Bolton]

I've used SW pro classic on a few things and it worked well and was fairly easy to spray. (I'm a hobbiest with limited equipment) I've also used ML Campbell water borne BLACK for a project. (They recently changed the name) Sprayed easy but the black drove me crazy! 8 coats until I was happy enough for it to leave my shop.

How did you spray 8 coats and not exceed the recommended dry film build? This can be one of the hard parts with commercial finishes. You cant just coat and re-coat at will though I suppose you could continually sand back.

Im not familiar with the black but I dont know of may that will allow 8 coats?

[Mike Berrevoets]

How did you spray 8 coats and not exceed the recommended dry film build? This can be one of the hard parts with commercial finishes. You cant just coat and re-coat at will though I suppose you could continually sand back.

Im not familiar with the black but I dont know of may that will allow 8 coats?

There was lots of sanding between coats. Wasn't recommending that many coats, just trying to illustrate my frustration with the black. Did I mention I was a hobbiest?

[johnny means]

Doug, as far as I'm concerned the only drawers fit for kitchen use are Blum Metaboxes. Cut a melamine bottom to size and you have a surgical ward grade drawer. Ikea has them store branded at good prices. Plus, there are about a gazillion options available for organization and such.

Post catalalyzed lacquer is a product that either you add catalyzer yourself or your supplier does it right before tou rush odf to rhe shop to spray it. I don't recomend it for the non professional. It has a very short pot life and your not going to spread out finishing over a couple of weekends. I prefer precatalyzed lacquer. It is easier to use in less productive situations and is nearly as good as post cat. I tries M.L. Campbell for a year or so, but found the viscosity was a problem. I settled on Valspars version which, holds up on vertical surdaces a bit better and seems to have better stand-over for when my prep is less than perfect.

[Jeff Duncan]

(I'm a hobbiest with limited equipment) I've also used ML Campbell water borne BLACK for a project. (They recently changed the name) Sprayed easy but the black drove me crazy! 8 coats until I was happy enough for it to leave my shop. It was for a coworker and when I delivered the piece is was to a dimly lit basement. I could have stopped at 4 coats and he would have been happy. (But I wouldn't have been)
Mike

I've had mixed experience with WB coatings in general. I will say that the one project I did with ML WB black came out pretty well, but it was a factory black color IIRC. I'm wondering if you got a normal base that they tinted and it wasn't tinted properly? For almost everything I've done black 2 coats were plenty…..but I've gone back to solvents for the time being:o

good luck,
JeffD