First & Last Bench - Design Feedback Request

[Ron Humphrey]

I am planning a workbench and would appreciate feedback on the basic overall design and joinery I have created. My objectives are: 1) massive & heavy 2) strong & rigid 3) simple. I am thinking eastern hard maple material with drawbored mortise & tennon stretchers.


My plan is for a 24” Veritas twin screw on the left face and a simple small quick-adjust vise on the right end. The dimensions may need some adjustments to accommodate those, but I would just like to focus for the moment on finalizing the basic structure. I have been an armchair woodworker for 50 years and this should be a rest-of-my-life bench.



Attached (hopefully) is a simple drawing of my design. Feedback/advice appreciated

[Brian Holcombe]

I'm pretty happy having used tusk tenons rather than draw bored mortise and tenons. Easy to take apart but incredibly strong.

I met a woodworker buying 12/4 rock maple in something like 12" wide to build a split top bench, I would consider that if ever building another. 2.75" is plenty thick for a bench top.

[Curt Putnam]

If you change your mind and go with a leg vise then you will want to consider having the tenon for that leg go thru to the top on that leg (look at the Roubo dovetails) so that vise pressure does not bear on the top and try to shift it out of alignment. Otherwise, looks good to me - but I haven't built mine yet.

[Jim Ritter]

Ron the best advise I have at the moment is to have all your vise hardware or vises on hand before you start. Just in case their requirements aren't addressed in your plans. Just having the specs from a website isn't good enough. When I started my bench I went with a leg vise on the left. I had the screw so I mortised the leg before installation. The bench is short and I then decided to put on twin leg vises ie a another on the right. So mortised the right leg and ordered another screw. In the three months from when I bought the first screw they changed the nut design and the mortise I made was all wrong. The screws came from Lie-Nielsen and they were able to fix me up with an old style nut so I was OK but not all companies are so accommodating.
Jim

[Adam Cruea]

If anything, I would put a second set of long stretchers about 3/4 of the way up to the top.

The reason I did this on my bench was if you have 2 sets of stretchers (one low, one high) that are draw-bored, the less likely you are to rack the entire base. The way your design is, you need the tenons through the top to be pretty tight to keep from rocking the bench; two sets of front and back stretchers would make that a moot point.

I'm also not really fond of endgrain sitting directly on a floor; if you spill something, the endgrain will wick it up the leg. You also only get those 4 points of contact; with sled feet, you can get a contact patch the depth of your bench and the width of your leg (or wider). So with your bench, using sled feet, instead of 4 6x6 patches of contact, you could do 6"x24" of contact. Or you could make the sled feet slightly wider than your top and make the bench even more stable to keep it from tipping over.

Here's a picture to hopefully illustrate what I'm saying.

276564

That's the base of my bench. The top is 3.5" thick hickory with a 6" apron all around that grabs those dovetails on the top rails (it also makes it so you can take the top off the bench and move it if you ever need to) like so:

276565

[edit]Oh, and like mentioned above, have your vise hardware handy when you build the bench, not after you build it.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

My tenons on the top of my bench are pretty loose. I never permanently attached the top to the base, but I still can't rack the base, because the leg memebers are large, and drawbored, and leg joinery is quite tight. So it might depend on how the base is built. This is really just my experience, anecdote and not data, just tossing it out there.




I'm also not really fond of endgrain sitting directly on a floor; if you spill something, the endgrain will wick it up the leg.



True that, so I sealed mine, and set mine on some pads (which keeps from damaging our softwood floors too much.)





You also only get those 4 points of contact; with sled feet, you can get a contact patch the depth of your bench and the width of your leg (or wider). So with your bench, using sled feet, instead of 4 6x6 patches of contact, you could do 6"x24" of contact.


This is only a benefit if your floor is flat! My old house, the floor is far enough from flat that I'd be in pretty sorry shape if I tried sled feet that contacted the full width. Most sled feet I see are relieved from the floor, and I assume this is exactly the reason.

[Adam Cruea]

Ahhh, I see you have a house like mine, Joshua. :p

Until I moved my office, if I didn't position my chair correctly it would roll toward the center of my house. :confused: I was lucky that the basement, while inclined, was poured concrete and tiled, so somewhat flat.

[Tom Vanzant]

Adam, I wish my garage (shop) floor was even somewhat flat. A previous owner poured a second slab on top of the original, with the toeplates as forms. I think he used a trowel instead of a float, resulting in a cement pillow four inches thick near the center, tapering to zero at the toeplates, more or less. There is essentially no flat area, let alone level. The ideal place for a workbench... light, wall space and door clearance... has a one-inch slope over a four foot span, end to end. In the present location, not optimal, my bench is level, thanks to three shims of different thicknesses. I'm seriously considering a jackhammer.

[Paul Saffold]

With only a single 2x6 stretcher attached with Benchcrafted hardware to 5"x5" legs, my bench does not rack. Ron, I think you will be fine with your plan. I agree with the others about having your hardware on hand before finalizing the plans. Take your time and enjoy the build, then enjoy the bench every time you work on it.
Paul

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Ron

The overall plan is a typical Roubo-style. I have one that is similar, with the exception that I did not bother with through mortice-and-tenons. Mine has blind tenons - with the weight of the top (European Oak) and dowel pins (not drawbored), the bench is very solid. Indeed, I could have omitted the pins, which are to keep it all together if I lift it under the top.

There are two elements I would question:

The first is the width of the top - 24" is pretty wide to lean across, unless you are a gorilla. This becomes especially important if you have your bench close to a wall, as I have. Mine is 22" wide.

The second element is the height of the bench. This is rather personal so there is no perfect recommended number. You have to decide what is ideal for you. Some like higher benches and some lower ones. Low is good for handplaning, high is better for sawing. A Moxon vise helps with the latter. When I stand up straight (I seem to be getting smaller as I get older - stooping over benches and sitting in chairs) I am a little under 5'10". My bench height is 30". Chris Schwaz, in one of his books, describes the "pinky test" to gauge bench height. Google for that.

There is some discussion on my website on these design aspects, if you care to go here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BuidingaBench1.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Don Kingston]

Hi Ron

The overall plan is a typical Roubo-style. I have one that is similar, with the exception that I did not bother with through mortice-and-tenons. Mine has blind tenons - with the weight of the top (European Oak) and dowel pins (not drawbored), the bench is very solid. Indeed, I could have omitted the pins, which are to keep it all together if I lift it under the top.

There are two elements I would question:

The first is the width of the top - 24" is pretty wide to lean across, unless you are a gorilla. This becomes especially important if you have your bench close to a wall, as I have. Mine is 22" wide.

The second element is the height of the bench. This is rather personal so there is no perfect recommended number. You have to decide what is ideal for you. Some like higher benches and some lower ones. Low is good for handplaning, high is better for sawing. A Moxon vise helps with the latter. When I stand up straight (I seem to be getting smaller as I get older - stooping over benches and sitting in chairs) I am a little under 5'10". My bench height is 30". Chris Schwaz, in one of his books, describes the "pinky test" to gauge bench height. Google for that.

There is some discussion on my website on these design aspects, if you care to go here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BuidingaBench1.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

If the bench is against a wall, why is narrower better? You can't do anything on that side anyway, and if something is wide there would be less overhang.?

[Jim Koepke]

If the bench is against a wall, why is narrower better?

It gets to how far one can reach comfortably. Especially if one is trying to do work across the span. If the bench is free standing then it is possible to walk around to the other side.

At least that is my understanding.

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

Exactly Jim.

Some benches are ideal at only 20" of width.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Stanley Covington]

Ron,

The drawings look pretty good. I like the twin tenons instead of the usual Roubo dovetail tenon which looks cool but needlessly weakens the bench.

If you ever intend to move it, it might be useful to be able to disassemble it, or at least remove the heavy top. Twin through tenons at the left front leg make perfect sense if you intend to install a leg vise (I highly recommend them), but removing 8 through tenons that size (assumed a fairly tight fit) will be a bitch.

You wrote "My plan is for a 24” Veritas twin screw on the left face and a simple small quick-adjust vise on the right end."

I have built three workbenches over a 35 year period, and one has a Veritas twin-screw. I don't like it. A very sturdy and rigid leg vise is superior for most applications. If you do use a twin screw vise, the advice others have given about getting the hardware beforehand is golden. I would go one step further and say don't complete the design until you have the hardware in-hand and well analyzed.

The QR steel vise on the "right end" is going to be mounted on the narrow end, and not mounted on the front right-hand corner, correct? Assuming you are right handed, it would be a major and painful mistake to mount it on the right end of the long side. I have mounted two high quality quick-release steel vises on benches in the past, but now that I have a good leg vise, the steel vises seem silly in comparison.

I have 20" wide bench, a 24" wide bench, and a 36" wide bench. Each has its advantage. The 36" bench is not as useful up against a wall as the 20' and 24", but it works beautifully for everything when I can access both sides. The key thing is that your bench needs to support boards the full width/length they are being planed, otherwise they will deflect and will be difficult to make flat. The 20" bench is too narrow for planing 24" wide cabinet-depth boards, so the 24" bench is the most useful for my purposes. Your mileage may vary, but you can"t go wrong with 24" so long as your work area has adequate space.


I would also recommend you give careful consideration and planning to hold downs, stops, dogs, and dog hole shape and precise location.

Stan

[Brian Holcombe]

This stuff all depends on lot on your intentions and how you work I've used very large benches my entire life so my bench is 32" deep by 76" long plus the Scandinavia vise.

I went with a Scandi vise over a twin screw because it allows me to clamp any width board, for very wide boards I combine it with a Jorgensen clamp.

i build cabinets, tables and have plans for a few doors so I prefer a big bench.

[Rob Luter]

I think your design is fine. I made one just like it.

The base is made from SYP off-cuts from work. the legs are 4 1/2 x 5 and the stringers are 3 1/2 x 5. The top is made from two maple butcher block benchtops salvaged from a local factory that closed. I laminated them together to form a solid 3 1/2" thick top 27" x 60". I bolted a 3 1/2" hard maple apron all the way around to make for a cleaner look.

The front vise is hard maple with a curly maple cap, 3 1/2" thick x 8" tall x 36" wide, powered by a Veritas twin screw kit. The end vise is an old Wilton that I mortised into the top behind the apron with a big maple chop attached to the moving jaw.


http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2583/4103275307_f30a5080da_b.jpg

[Prashun Patel]

I am curious about the mortises through the top. Dont they constrain movement?

[Jim Foster]

Several additional things to consider.

1) Material: A hard material sounds great for a bench, but it might be slippery and if a workpiece hits it, the workpiece will suffer the bruise, not the bench. A softer bench is also easier to flatten. I made mine with Fir and have been working mostly with White Oak and have felt like the decision for a softer wood has worked out well (a number of times :) ).

2) Leg tenons. Having them come all the way through the top has a look of craftsmanship, but I think it can interfere with the top surface a little, and can make it a bit harder to keep flat. A deep blind tenon with a draw bore mortise will hold it together just as strongly.

[Winton Applegate]

Being in the minority . . . no I'm not an alien from outer space. As far as I know. Although there are days . . .
I will get to that, but it seems and I may have missed it, but it seems no one has asked

THE KEY QUESTION

DUN, DUN DUN . . .
(well two questions really)

1. What do you want to make on the bench e.g., wooden clocks, cabinets, tables, entry doors or twin mast wooden sail boats ?
and
B. How do you work? Some power tools, mostly power tools and some hand work or are you an unreformable, half a chocolate cake at a sitting because you need the calories to keep going, all night, unashamed . . . (spoken in hushed whisper behind closed closet doors) dedicated, addicted to the hard stuff . . . hand tool user.
sh, sh, sh.

"That wasn't me." "I don't know what you mean." "What would I be doing in the closet?". I wasn't making "all that noise". Must have been the cat. Died ? Of course I notice; just forgot that's all.

I must worn you though I got enough sleep and am about to have tooooo much coffee; with any luck.
I just woke up so things may be a little muddled and I INTEND to be good.
This time.
If I have to.
I guess.

Now the minority thing :
The majority here, at least the vocal majority. At least the verbal majority that type with all fingers . . .at least the verbose majority that take the time to come up once in a while from the shop to actually waste time replying to these silly things . . . where was I . . . oh yah
well they seem to like the Roubu bench and twin . . . (be good, be good, be good) and stuff.
?
??
???
. . . anyway. I have one word for you an I will stop
. . . nahhh on second thought I am supposed to be goood
so I wait with abated breath (I am hiding in the closet again)

How Sir do you answer THE KEY QUESTION (s) ?

[Jim Koepke]

Ron,

One thing to remember is a bench is merely a tool to hold your work.

What works for me may not be the best design for your needs. For me, a twin screw vise would work better as the tail vise.

jtk

[Ron Humphrey]

Thanks for all the responses! There were several things they caused me to rethink, so far:

1) Change the frame to add 3” x 3” mortise & tennoned stretchers all around at the top. Side stretchers - flush with the top and outside of the legs, front & back stretchers - flush to the front and about 6” below the top of the legs (to allow for clamping). I will drill hold-down holes in the front & back stringers.

2) Reduce the top thickness to 3”

3) Thru bolt the top to the side stringers for dis-assembly, if needed, probably using four 1/2” hex bolts & locknuts, recessed below the surface of the top and stretchers.



I will definitely take possession of the vices before finishing the design, let alone start cutting wood.

I was asked the kind of work to be done on this bench. I am setting up a “pre-industrial” (and dust-free) room for doing strictly hand tool work. I have the luxury of a separate room for my power tools. This bench is just for the hand tool room. I hope to progress from boxes and cases to small custom cabinets and furniture. I will be using stationary and hand power tools, but not with this bench. I will have room to work on either side of the bench.

Thanks again for the input.

[Rob Luter]

One word of caution regarding the top stretchers. Even at 6" below the top they get in the way of clamps if you ever want to clamp anything to the bench top. On my bench, the tops of the legs have tenons that fit into blind mortises in the underside of the bench top. Combined with the drawbored and pinned tenons of the lower stretchers the thing is solid as a rock.

[Winton Applegate]

As a wise man once said : " By the time you finish this bench your working habits and what you build will have changed enough you will be already thinking about how you will make your next bench so don't sweat it."
or something to that effect.

That's OK because it is just great having more than one bench.
The Roubo will be great if you decide you like to do farm and yard home stead like construction. Just the thing for that. Maybe. Sort of. Not really.
The twin screw would be awesome for clamping the lawn mower blade to sharpen it.


A hard bench may be slippery.
Thas why I chose purple heart !
(ok it was an unexpected perk)
the untreated and unfinished purple heart emits a VERY SLIGHT gum an so it actually has a hint of tack to it.
Subtle huh ?
I lucked out.


The mortises through the top; don't they constrain movement ?
Yes but not in the sense you mean.
No they are there to prevent the bench from being transportable in any sane manner (look on the bright side nobody who breaks in will be able to carry off your work bench). Move the top and you , ha, ha, have to move the base.

Rent a truck with a lift gate that's my advice ( and worry about those basement stairs when you get there, you will think of something, hey there is always that new handsaw you been meaning to try out).

The Klausz just sits down over big wooden bullet shaped locating dowels and it is possible, I was going to say easy, to lift the top off the base and move one at a time.
Important when you are looking at a bench that can weigh from four to six hundred pounds. Now I know you guys have big strong friends capable of lifting nigh on three hundred pounds each and walking backwards up a moving van ramp but I don't have any friends, I'm not sure why , so I got to carry the top all by my self over my shoulder. Those legs sticking out just throw off the balance too much for my taste. :)

PS: Frank Klausz said " If you are going to make cabinets, chests of drawers and furniture there is no better bench than this one. It has been refined for a thousand years. It can't be improved on. I only made it as well as I could".

or there abouts.
Bolt the top to the base ? Why ? There is no need.

Ron,

It's not too late.
That one word I was going to say . . .
Klausz
Here is a link for more info
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?168708-Frank-Klausz-Workbench


http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/noydb1/Bigvise_zpse9474d0c.jpg (http://s801.photobucket.com/user/noydb1/media/Bigvise_zpse9474d0c.jpg.html)

[Matthew Hills]

My bench has 3" top of doug fir. Works well -- doesn't budge when planing, and holdfasts grab well. (you can always counterbore your holdfast holes if you want the 4" thickness for aesthetics or if you increase the span between legs and want to be able to increase the chopping areas)

I don't recommend stretchers at the top. Think your original design was fine for that.

Width is reasonable. There are tradeoffs -- 24" is on the upper range of the narrow bench crowd. Mine is 28" and is up against a wall… but I've got some spare lumber stacked on the back 8"… (one of my ongoing projects)

Workbench height -- your original design is a reasonable spot to start. Chris Schwarz was a big advocate of the low bench for planing, and then adding the moxon to make joinery sawing at a more reasonable height. Jim Tolpin has both low and high benches. Paul Sellers advocates a fairly high bench, but he isn't doing as much rough milling. My bench is on the low side; I'd definitely consider going higher next time. If you build high for now, you can try it out with and without a platform to stand on, and trim it down if you really prefer that. This assumes that your stretchers are high enough to trim the legs. (even here there is room for preference -- think it was CS who had some favorite stretcher height so that he could get his hook his foot in underneath it)

Usually have seen folks recommend against hard maple -- sometimes on grounds of cost, sometimes on how easy it is to build the bench, and sometimes on hardness (would rather ding the bench than the workpiece). I wouldn't go out of my way to buy it for this. If you've got a surplus of maple, I'd go ahead and use it… but my own bench is doug fir and I'm happy.



Matt

[Adam Cruea]

As a wise man once said : " By the time you finish this bench your working habits and what you build will have changed enough you will be already thinking about how you will make your next bench so don't sweat it."
or something to that effect.

That's OK because it is just great having more than one bench.
The Roubo will be great if you decide you like to do farm and yard home stead like construction. Just the thing for that. Maybe. Sort of. Not really.
The twin screw would be awesome for clamping the lawn mower blade to sharpen it.


Thas why I chose purple heart !
(ok it was an unexpected perk)
the untreated and unfinished purple heart emits a VERY SLIGHT gum an so it actually has a hint of tack to it.
Subtle huh ?
I lucked out.


Yes but not in the sense you mean.
No they are there to prevent the bench from being transportable in any sane manner (look on the bright side nobody who breaks in will be able to carry off your work bench). Move the top and you , ha, ha, have to move the base.

Rent a truck with a lift gate that's my advice ( and worry about those basement stairs when you get there, you will think of something, hey there is always that new handsaw you been meaning to try out).

The Klausz just sits down over big wooden bullet shaped locating dowels and it is possible, I was going to say easy, to lift the top off the base and move one at a time.
Important when you are looking at a bench that can weigh from four to six hundred pounds. Now I know you guys have big strong friends capable of lifting nigh on three hundred pounds each and walking backwards up a moving van ramp but I don't have any friends, I'm not sure why , so I got to carry the top all by my self over my shoulder. Those legs sticking out just throw off the balance too much for my taste. :)

PS: Frank Klausz said " If you are going to make cabinets, chests of drawers and furniture there is no better bench than this one. It has been refined for a thousand years. It can't be improved on. I only made it as well as I could".

or there abouts.
Bolt the top to the base ? Why ? There is no need.

Ron,

It's not too late.
That one word I was going to say . . .
Klausz
Here is a link for more info
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?168708-Frank-Klausz-Workbench


http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/noydb1/Bigvise_zpse9474d0c.jpg (http://s801.photobucket.com/user/noydb1/media/Bigvise_zpse9474d0c.jpg.html)

Completely off topic; where did you get your leather for your vise? I've been looking around and while I've found some, I'm not sure it's acceptable (mainly untanned).

[Mike Holbrook]

I love bench threads, so many alternatives.

I like Adam Cruea's framed top. I am thinking about borrowing from his design for my "other" bench, an Adjust-A-Bench. I want to be able to drop: plywood, masonite, foam sheets into the frame. I would like a sacrificial surface for cutting sheet goods with a Festool saw, a surface I don't mind spilling paint or finishing liquids on, a slick (masonite?) surface for when I need an in/out feed surface....I have three vises and lots of other parts waiting to be made into two benches, low/planing and adjustable. If I can just get my bandsaw working after we moved it...

Now I have to go find my builder's wall level to check and see if my concrete floor is flat enough for a sled base, although the sled base on my compact bench seems to work fine. Water leaks are always a possibility in a basement shop. Good ideas guys!

[Ron Humphrey]

Thanks again for all the input. I have been given a lot to think about and am going to fall back and regroup.

I now work on an outfeed table and a makeshift bench that was poorly made by another from Boeing surplus outlet materials. Both are unacceptable for many reasons. I have been very frustrated with the bench racking and moving when using my hand planes and sawing. I have been making a myriad of small items from picture frames and custom boxes of all sizes to garden baskets, using mostly power tools. I enjoy designing and want to build custom small cases, cabinets and gift items for family & friends and perhaps some furniture. Krenov is an inspiration. I am currently studying “By hand and Eye” to learn more about designing and building to proportions and practicing the “scary sharp”, micro bevel sharpening process.

I have been longing for shop time to learn fine woodworking with hand tool for many years, but having a manufacturers rep business with employees, constant travel and raising two kids, allowed virtually no shop time and I never really got started. My paternal grandfather was a journeyman carpenter. I was born and raised in Warren, Ohio, home of the Packard automobile. My maternal grandfather did the interior wood trim for Packard autos. I think I have some sawdust in my blood.

I am a neophyte at hand joinery, but know I want a solid, heavy bench. I think my first design may be a little reactionary/overkill. Thanks for bringing me back to rationality.

The height will be geared toward comfort at hand planning and, if needed, a moxon will follow.

The 24” x 84” top should serve me well.

I have never used a leg vice but am comfortable with the Veritas twin screw mounted to the front. There was a comment or two about not liking this vice. I would appreciate hearing about the negatives or downsides, from actual experience, for this vice. I will be taking possession of my vices before finalizing my design.

I have included pictures of some gift projects I have done so far.

Your taking the time to help me in this process is appreciated.

[Brian Holcombe]

Your projects look fantastic. Ultimately you will know what you need ahead of anyone else. For me it was a LN tail vise and a Scandi shoulder vise at 34.5" from the floor with a trestle base and square dogs. I build mostly case goods and tables with the occasional small box or other project.

vises and all that are quite personal, so my advice is to get the height correct (I'd go lower rather than higher if you saw and plane on the bench) and make it substantially heavy and very flat.

the sentiment of doing something once is nice, and always possible but you'll always find some thing you feel could be different after you are finished. All said and done if you are doing work of that quality on a wobbly out feed than you will be quite fine on a real bench of any style.

[Mike Holbrook]

The Norden Adjust-A-Bench base allows one to adjust bench height. There are several threads on SMC about people using this system. Although these bench bases are designed to use casters for mobility, at least one SMC member added wide adjustable feet on large bolts that I imagine will hold her good & steady if the locking casters don't. I think I got something about a sale too.

[Christopher Charles]

Hello Ron,

I've recently finished a (more or less) BC Roubo. I was (and still am) attracted to the Scandi style bench. You can read the years long saga here:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?169730-Is-the-Klausz-Frid-Scand-Bench-Dead

A couple of points relevant here: I built the bench because I wanted an upgrade from a similar design to the one you are planning with a metal end vise. I spring for the BC tail vise and it's an amazing improvement. Thus, i'd recommend a wagon or tail vise over the twin screw. While I started out planning a Scandi bench, the straightforwardness of the build and the design of the Roubo have left me with no regrets. I'm 6' 0" and the bench sits at 35" right now (35 3/4 on the tail end thanks to a sloping floor and my OCD for level...). I made sure to keep a couple inches on the legs that will allow a trim in the future if needed, but I don't anticipate

The top is attached with stopped tenons, fit tight to the front to maintain the relation with the front legs and with room for movement on the back two mortises.

My top is hard maple, toothed and with BLO. This has high tack, but may prove to collect grit over time.

Good luck, go slow and enjoy the process.

Chris C.

[Jay Radke]

Ron,

I was able to build a bench this summer with Jeff Miller and two others in his shop. One thing I would consider is how he has changed the locations of the rear upper stretcher in his FWW bench. He has moved it back in a bit to all for more clamping options in the back. But since you are putting your's up against the wall it might not matter, but then you might want to consider it for the front.

Jay

[Adam Cruea]

I love bench threads, so many alternatives.

I like Adam Cruea's framed top. I am thinking about borrowing from his design for my "other" bench, an Adjust-A-Bench. I want to be able to drop: plywood, masonite, foam sheets into the frame. I would like a sacrificial surface for cutting sheet goods with a Festool saw, a surface I don't mind spilling paint or finishing liquids on, a slick (masonite?) surface for when I need an in/out feed surface....I have three vises and lots of other parts waiting to be made into two benches, low/planing and adjustable. If I can just get my bandsaw working after we moved it...

Now I have to go find my builder's wall level to check and see if my concrete floor is flat enough for a sled base, although the sled base on my compact bench seems to work fine. Water leaks are always a possibility in a basement shop. Good ideas guys!

Just a word of warning, it's hard to clamp under the bench if you need it, but since my bench is 36" wide, it's not really a problem since most of my clamps can go on top. Though the deep apron is pretty nice to clamp things to, I will say that.