How to anchor Newel Posts in this situation

[John TenEyck]

Here's a picture of a short set of steps I need to contruct a balustrade for.

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As you can see, the structure underneath is terrible. There will be a post on top of the first step (at left in the picture), at the top of the stairs, and then on down the hallway there will be three more. I think there will be good structure for those last three, it's the first two that I'm wondering how to deal with and would appreciate your advice. I'm willing to make the homeowner tear it out and start over, if that's the best option, but would like to hear if there are less extreme options that will still result in a solid construction. Thanks in advance.

John

[Dave Zellers]

I wouldn't consider rebuilding that mess extreme at all. I think it's absolutely necessary.

[Mark Bolton]

I think your right in suggesting tearing out whats there. Not the underlying framing per say but at least removing the treads allowing you to anchor the newel(s) adequately and then re-installing. The bonus is there isnt a lot there so removing them to make it right inst a major issue.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Looks like the house is an old remodel, and some of that stuff you see is not going to come out, ie the doubled plate. I agree that you have to completely disassemble the existing treads and start over though. You'll probably find some funny business you'd want to fix anyhow, what you can see certainly looks a bit sketchy.

[Judson Green]

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Can you drill a hole down though to the basement? Your post could be hollow or at least a long hole and then use a length of all thread to secure the post through the step and floor. Think I've read an article about this in fine home building or something like that.

[John TenEyck]

Thanks for the replies so far. Underneath the steps is the garage, and I can't go all the way through per the home owner. Whoever said it looks like a remodel was right, quite a mess of one.

John

[J.R. Rutter]

Years ago I did a similar set of newel posts and used 1" black iron pipe and bondo to anchor them. In your situation, the pipe could extend down to the double plate from the top step. It was very rigid when it set up. The only downside was buying an auger bit to be able to get a nice deep hole.

edit: I remember now that I used 3/4" pipe, but drilled a 1" hole so that the bondo filled in the gap and let me position it. You still have to drill a pretty straight hole though!

[Tom Ewell]

If you can add enough lumber into the framing, glued and screwed, allowing for good purchase using one of these (http://cheapstairparts.com/s-9403-wood-newel-mounting-kit/?gdftrk=gdfV27605_a_7c1217_a_7c3063_a_7cS_d_9403&gclid=CI6im9rznLsCFQrxOgodhEMAqA)
the bore for the bolt can go in out of plumb, then knock the top of the bolt plumb once it's set into the framing.

The system is fairly secure in terms of 'wobble' as long as the framing is stable. Some folks don't like the plugged hole, so point of view needs to be considered.

[phil harold]

I would remove the treads and secure the newel to to the end of the double plate and studs for the bottom one
on the top one I would connect to the front of the floor joist
block and bolt all you can
where there was sheetrock screw and glue 1/2 ply to framing and newels
then on the other three posts you can use these
http://www.ljsmith.com/products.aspx?category=&type=9&product=14

[Jim Andrew]

In a case where a newel could not be anchored below the floor line, I have seen a piece of 1/4" steel plate used, it was about 1 1/2" bigger than the post, and a recess had to be routed into the floor, then the plate was drilled around the edge to screw to the floor and holes drilled so it could be screwed to the bottom of the post with long screws. When the post was mounted, trim was installed around the post to hide the plate.

[John TenEyck]

Thanks for the answers everyone. I'm familiar with newel bolts and might use those for the top three newels. I should have mentioned that these newels are hollow except for a block with a vertical hole that I add inside near the base. Being hollow, I can add attach the nut on top of the newel bolt from the top using a long rod, then install the cap. That avoids having to drill a hole through the side of the newel and plugging it. I'm still debating how to do the three newels on at the top of the steps. I'm leaning to a long tenon from the newel or a piece of pipe, as suggested. In any case, we're going to have to improve the structure under the steps first. Thanks again. I'll let you know how it turns out.

JOhn