Building a bench (the kind you sit on)

[Chris Griggs]

Thought I share a new build I started last night. There's a set of windows in our new house that we currently have a small circular dining table siting under that doesn't get used for anything other than a cat perch. Since this little table sits about 6 feet from our main dining table and never gets used, we've decided there is likely a better way to use that space. I suggested that a bench with some built in storage might be nice to have in the dining room under those windows, so after consulting my wife and looking through a bunch of pictures online to figure out what she would like I came up with this design.

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It's pretty straight forward. The woodworker in me wanted to make something more curvy or with more complex joinery, but the homeowner and husband in me wanted something that would make my wife happy, fit in with our dining table, and not take forever to make. To feed the designer in me, I've added some subtle curves to the aprons and on to the sides of the armrests that I think will make it look less generic whilst still fitting with the overall piece and the room it is in.

I have some nice wide walnut boards that will serve as the deep aprons/sides of the storage area. The top I'll probably actually just trim with walnut and use a secondary for the center section of it since the plan is to have my MIL make some type of cushion/upholstery that will cover it anyway.

All the joinery will pretty much be M&T, and there really isn't that much of it. The one part I still need to think through is the best way to tenon the aprons into the legs. I'm thinking since they are so wide I'll do some type of breadboard style tenon glued and pegged at the top, but just pegged into elongate holes lower down so that they can expand downward but not upward which would potentially screw up the top/seat.

I got started on the leg stock last night, which I'll need to make from laminations due to the thickness of the wood I have on hand. Technically, I should probably go buy some 8/4-10/4 walnut, but the stuff I have all comes from the same tree so using it for each part will ensure a color match throughout the piece (also I have it, it was free, and I'm both cheap and lazy, so I might as well use it....and also, I confess, I'm one of those idiots who sometime spends money on tools when I should be spending it on wood....so what I have is what gets used)

This will not be 100% handtool build. My new best friend His Excellency Sir Bandsaw as already been participating, and there is a good chance that his relative Mr. Drill Press will be involved in those long leg mortises.

Will be 90-95% handtool though...

Here's what I got done last night...

Jointing a wide board to rip the leg stock from

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Sir Bandsaw did a nice job ripping the pieces...much faster, cleaner, and likely quieter than I could do by hand.
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4 out of 8 sections for leg prepped for lamination
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Didn't have a lot of time last night so that's it so far. Trying get 2" by 2" legs out of these, but if they're a hair smaller, that's ok too. Hoping to have the legs glued up by the weekend so I can start on the joinery.

No idea how long this will take. Hoping just a handful of weekends, but even though its pretty simple, I can never be sure if a project will take 6 weeks or 6 months to be completed. We'll see how it goes.

[Judson Green]

Good luck Chris! I like your design. And nice band saw gloat.

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks...but that's not bandsaw gloat.

THIS is a bandsaw gloat...:)

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[Brian Holcombe]

Looks good Chris! What do you have in the works for a finish on this?

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks Brian. I'll probably just do an oil and wax finish on it. I typically like to shellac things but I don't really see any kind of film based finish on this and I imagine alcoholic beverages will be set on the arms, so I think I'll skip the shellac this time.

At most I'll probably do an oil varnish blend (e.g watco), but generally I like to avoid stinky stuff so I'll likely stick with one of the Tried and True products or just regular BORG BLO followed by a wax. Easy to apply, nice to look at, and nice too the touch.

[Prashun Patel]

If it were me, I'd mix borg semigloss poly with BLO and do my oil/varnish that way. Applies the same way, and feels as nice to the touch.

[Chris Griggs]

Good thinking Prashun. I'll probably do that if I go the oil/varnish blend route. I did that once before but I can't recall the proportions. IIRC its 1 part BLO, 1 part varnish, and one part MS is typically recommended? What's your preferred proportion?

[Graham Haydon]

Nice one Chris, even nicer to see a British style bench! That bandsaw is very well tuned, kudos. You raise a valid point on keeping it simple, sometimes it's the hardest thing to do.

[paul cottingham]

I have used water based poly over Tried and True on walnut and it looks great. And not stinky.

[Chris Griggs]

Nice one Chris, even nicer to see a British style bench! That bandsaw is very well tuned, kudos. You raise a valid point on keeping it simple, sometimes it's the hardest thing to do.


Thanks Graham. Yeah I messed with the design a lot and kept going back to something with simple lines. I'm not going to pretend like it won't still be a challenge (everything is a challenge when your a weekend warrior) or that I'm capable of some crazy complex carved, turned, inlayed, sculpted piece, but I definitely was tempted to design something that would push my comfort zone...I had visions of some curvy frames panels or some sculpted splayed legs, but it just would have look wrong for this project.

Glad you like my workbench. I'm a fan of it. The English bench is certainly one of many wonderful contributions the Brits have made to the craft....wish I could say the same about your guys food (I do enjoy beans & toast on occasion, but just because my grandfather was full English doesn't mean I have any interest in eating a Full English:))

The bandsaw is my first. I got it from someone locally who posted it here in the SMC classifieds. I didn't want to bother using it for any projects until I had it tuned to perfection (or to the very best of my ability anyway) so I read everything I could find online and a friend of mine sent me a bunch of Michael Fortune articles that helped a lot. It took me tinkering for 2-4 hours everyday/night for about a week and a half before I was able to do that resaw and call it good. The funny thing is, that after all that tuning I realized that the biggest factor that was making or breaking my resaws was how good of a job I was doing feeding the stock. Not just in terms of not going to fast (I wasn't), but in terms of making sure that I was feeding at a consistent rate and not tilting or twisting the board as I fed it. I probably could have saved myself a lot of time effort if I had realized that right away, but I guess it doesn't hurt to have it dial in by the book, to the letter, etc... I certainly saved a lot of money by buying something simple and used, and then learning to dial it in, as opposed to buying a saw that was unnecessarily large and overpowered for my purposes (which was my initial intent when I started saving for one). I sure learned a lot in the process too, and as a result can now feel and hear as soon as something isn't working right in my feeding. George has been known to say that "you have to make love to the bandsaw" and now I understand what he means.



I have used water based poly over Tried and True on walnut and it looks great. And not stinky.

Really, water based? Was it the General Finishes stuff. The BORG stuff I've used looks like plexiglass.

[Adam Cruea]

If you're meaning something like Minwax poly. . .cut it with Mineral Spirits. I use a 20% MS mixture and it works great, not heavy and plexiglass-like.

[Chris Griggs]

If you're meaning something like Minwax poly. . .cut it with Mineral Spirits. I use a 20% MS mixture and it works great, not heavy and plexiglass-like.

Yeah the minwax "water based" polycrylic is what I'm taking about that looks like plexiglass (though I have made it look ok by putting it over amber shellac and then rubbing it out). You can't cut that with MS can you? Or are you talking about the regular miniwax polyurethane? I agree that stuff is fine...especially when thinned. I'm confused what you are referring too. :confused:

[Judson Green]

I don't know but for me oil (and not the shiny poly stuff) on walnut is just right. On maple maybe not so much.

[Adam Cruea]

Yeah the minwax "water based" polycrylic is what I'm taking about that looks like plexiglass (though I have made it look ok by putting it over amber shellac and then rubbing it out). You can't cut that with MS can you? Or are you talking about the regular miniwax polyurethane? I agree that stuff is fine...especially when thinned. I'm confused what you are referring too. :confused:

Sorry, I had a brain fart. I don't see why you can't cut the water-based with good ol' distilled water, though. :)

[Brian Holcombe]

I just burnish Waterlox into walnut and maple. I was mostly wondering if you would do a period finish on the wood. Makes perfect sense to use a finish that can handle some alcohol spilling.

For a simple project, I really like visible joinery in some areas. Arts and crafts style through tenons would be sexy in this case.

[Jim Koepke]

For a simple project, I really like visible joinery in some areas. Arts and crafts style through tenons would be sexy in this case.

A similar thought came to me. Instead of laminating the legs why not use a mitered corner joint. But then that might take more wood and really only looks super with something like quarter sawn oak.

It looks to be a fun project.

jtk

[Chris Griggs]

Sorry, I had a brain fart. I don't see why you can't cut the water-based with good ol' distilled water, though. :)

All good, I have those a lot. I don't if you can thin water-based stuff. I've often wondered if you could thin it with alcohol or water, but I never found any information on making a water based wiping varnish.


I just burnish Waterlox into walnut and maple. I was mostly wondering if you would do a period finish on the wood. Makes perfect sense to use a finish that can handle some alcohol spilling.

For a simple project, I really like visible joinery in some areas. Arts and crafts style through tenons would be sexy in this case.



A similar thought came to me. Instead of laminating the legs why not use a mitered corner joint. But then that might take more wood and really only looks super with something like quarter sawn oak.

It looks to be a fun project.

jtk

Those are good suggestions and actually both things I've considered some. As I went to bed last night I was thinking if there was anywhere where thru tenons might look nice. What ended up thinking though was that rather than that I'll probably add a couple other decorative details....a bead on the legs or aprons or some additional shaping on the underside of the front apron. A lot of that stuff I'll probably work out when the work pieces are in front of me and I can better visualize what it will look like to scale.


As for finishes, the more I think about it the more I think I'l just stick with T&T. I'm a big fan of those products. That stuff looks great on walnut and really an indoor bench like this doesn't need anything more. Though I'm still considering mixing up an oil varnish blend. Its actually been a really long time since I've used anything other than BLO/T&T or Shellac. I really prefer to avoid most varnishes as they stink up my whole house and shop and I don't have great ventilation. That an I love the look of simple oil finishes and shellac.

[Chris Griggs]

Oh, and thanks everyone for all the thoughts and suggestions. It one of the main reasons I post projects...I'll always get a lot of great ideas and food for thought from the comments.

Didn't get anytime in the shop last night...hopefully will get some tonight!

[James Conrad]

Its actually been a really long time since I've used anything other than BLO/T&T or Shellac.

Hey Chris, try equal parts satin poly, BLO and tung oil (not tongue) and finish with your wax. You can thin it with MS if you find it too thick as is or use gloss poly in the mix if you want a little more shine in subsequent coats. A little stinky, but makes for a bit more durable finish for a piece that is going to get use.

[Chris Griggs]

Hey Chris, try equal parts satin poly, BLO and tongue oil and finish with your wax. You can thin it with MS if you find it too thick as is or use gloss poly in the mix if you want a little more shine in subsequent coats. A little stinky, but makes for a little more durable finish for a piece that is going to get use.

Thanks for the recipe James! I think i might do that! However, I'm a vegetarian so do you think it would be ok if I substituted the tongue oil with tung oil? :D

(sorry, couldn't help myself!)

[Adam Cruea]

Thanks for the recipe James! I think i might do that! However, I'm a vegetarian so do you think it would be ok if I substituted the tongue oil with tung oil? :D

(sorry, couldn't help myself!)

*snicker*

And why not just get a scrap piece of lumber and cut some water-based poly with some water, see what happens? From my quick Google searches of "thinning water based poly", it looks like you can thin it up to 10% or so. I'd use distilled water, though, not city or well water.

[James Conrad]

Thanks for the recipe James! I think i might do that! However, I'm a vegetarian so do you think it would be ok if I substituted the tongue oil with tung oil? :D

(sorry, couldn't help myself!)

True tongue oil is very rare these days, mostly used in the later part the 1600's, so you often have to make your own or stumble upon an old bottle at a tool auction. It was distilled down from the pressed taste buds of the witchity grub, how they found the tongues on those things I'll never know...

Bunch of wise guys you are! that's funny! I hate auto-correct.

[Chris Griggs]

Haha. Auto correct is responsible for some of the funniest things I've read online to date.

Adam, thank for searching that out. I've never found anything like that before when I searched in the past. I'll have to do a search again. That is definitely something I'll need to experiment with.

[Hilton Ralphs]

Very sweet Chris. Are you going to put loose cushions or upholster something yourself?

Any more pics?

[Chris Griggs]

Very sweet Chris. Are you going to put loose cushions or upholster something yourself?

Any more pics?

Thanks Hilton. My mother in law knows how to upholster so I think I'll ask her to make something. She'll enjoy doing so.

Was up a little earlier than usual this morning, got some more work done, and snapped a few pics. Will post them later today.

[Prashun Patel]

Most people say the easiest is 1/3 each BLO, MS, and any oil-based varnish.
Personally, I don't add that much BLO. It just makes the mix too thick; but it does slow up the drying. In a 'chobani' yogurt cup I might add a table spoon of BLO and then the rest 50/50 ms/varnish.

The 'Maloof' mix is BLO/tung/poly, but that's just felt too complicated for me.

People complain about poly looking like plastic, but in an ov blend like this, you don't build a film. so I don't notice it.

I apply it exactly like a pure oil finish.

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks Prashun. That's helpful.

[Chris Griggs]

I finished planing off the rough sawn surface on all the leg pieces this morning and went about figuring out the best orientations for lamination. From the ripping down of the full sized board thru the planing I was careful to keep track of the original board orientation to help me get the best grain match in the lamination. You can just make out the large cabinet makers triangles drawn on the boards.
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I mess around with a few orientations of adjacent pieces and ultimately decided that the best route was to fold the side by side cuts onto each other. This doesn't give me the best grain match on both sides of the legs, but what it does do is give me is two not laminated faces and one laminated face with a perfect grain match...

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As you can see below the opposite laminated face doesn't match at all, so this will become the interior joinery face. 3 good looking faces is more than enough.

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With my orientations for lamination decided I managed to get the first leg in clamps before I left this morning.


This is no time to skimp on glue..
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...nor is it a time to skimp on clamping pressure.

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A bit of smooth planing should make the grain matched side of the lamination nearly invisible. There may be an inadvertent book matching effect that shows up but the grain is fairly straight so it won't be too noticeable.

[Graham Haydon]

Making love to the bandsaw :-). I could not agree more about the need to develop sensativity around machines as much as hand tools. You use all the same concepts really, if you dont it all goes wrong. And BTW no full English, man up! :-)

[Chris Griggs]

Hey Guys...wondering if you had any desgin thoughts here.

I know I said I wanted to keep it simple...and really I still am, but I've been playing with different curves in sketchup and on scraps and think I have found some simple curves just to add to the side profile of the legs (so seen only from front) that might be nice...I've also added some curve to the little uprights under the arms to match the leg curve

I doodled this up in sketchup last night and mocked up a 2D profile in a scrap of pine this morning.

There's a couple other little things in this drawing too. The wierd line just inside the borders are to give me an idea of what a littel quirk or v-groove or bead might look like scratched in and the you'll notice the aprons are deeper too...the deeper aprons will be present on either design I mistakenly undersized them on the first drawing.

Anyway, any thoughts on the slightly curving design compared to the straighter one? Again, I'll probably mock a leg up in 3D to full scale, but for now all I got is sketchup drawings.

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[Judson Green]

I like the curve better. Is the leg also curved where it meets the apron (both sides)? Not sure about the quirks. Are you quirking the legs or just apron? Is this to lighten up the apron?

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks Judson. There is a very slight curve on the lower part of the inside of the leg that transitions to a straight where is meets the apron. This thins out/lightens up the lower part of the leg, and makes the over shape a little more pronounced.

I haven't decided what to quirk or bead for sure, just playing with idea's in Sketchup to get a feel, but yes I thought one thing it might do is lighten the look of the apron. I actually would prefer the look of a narrower apron, but functionally the depth needs to be there. I thought maybe a quirk on the outside of the legs to extenuate the outer curve might be nice and then a quirk on the bottom of the apron (the current drawing has it going all the way around) might lighten it up a bit and also extenuate its subtle curve.

Thanks for chiming in. I enjoy going through design stuff and others input is always really helpful.

[Jim Koepke]

Why pitch straight down the middle when you can throw in a curve or two?

jtk

[Brian Holcombe]

Chris,

I saw a very short skirt on a wegner table supported by a framework inside the table underneath the top. I applied the same technique to a minimalist table that I built for myself and the thing is incredible sturdy even with a floating top and a 4" tall skirt. So, if you want to shorten the skirt it can be done by adding a framework inside without a sacrifice to strength.

[Chris Griggs]

Chris,

I saw a very short skirt on a wegner table supported by a framework inside the table underneath the top. I applied the same technique to a minimalist table that I built for myself and the thing is incredible sturdy even with a floating top and a 4" tall skirt. So, if you want to shorten the skirt it can be done by adding a framework inside without a sacrifice to strength.

Brian, I'd love to see a picture of that...

Unfortunately though, that won't necessarily help this issue...the depth is for storage not for strength. Although, it doesn't necessarily need 8+" of depth for storage so I may go back to a shorter skirt if I decide that's all we would require for it. I guess I need to decide what we might want to use it for. I guess it will most likely be board games or table clothes or cloth napkins or something so maybe 4-6" of storage depth would be more than enough....in which case a picture of your table and its frame work (or a link to the wegner example) would be very helpful (if its not too much trouble :))

[Brian Holcombe]

Ahh, I missed that in the first posts.

Here's the desk, I'll post up some pics of the framework later on. You can see the austerity I prefer in my design work also.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c181/SpeedyGoomba/c15099fd-7f1e-4974-8846-23365f438edf_zps1c841fc6.jpg (http://s27.photobucket.com/user/SpeedyGoomba/media/c15099fd-7f1e-4974-8846-23365f438edf_zps1c841fc6.jpg.html)

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks for posting that Brian. That's lovely! I like the wood selection. The design itself is very straight and austere but that little swirl of grain adds just the right amount of flair and interest. Its a very nice piece, indeed! Very tasteful. I look forward to seeing the "bones"

[Paul Incognito]

Looks like it'll be a nice bench, Chris.
If you have need of a 113 for the curves you're welcome to borrow mine.
PI

[Chris Griggs]

Looks like it'll be a nice bench, Chris.
If you have need of a 113 for the curves you're welcome to borrow mine.
PI

Thanks buddy! Yet another reason why I make time to come hang out with you in your ship again.

[Brian Holcombe]

Thanks Chris, I built the bookshelves as well and they are wall hung. The desktop is leather.

Here is the seedy underbelly of my library desk:

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c181/SpeedyGoomba/638460DD-15E5-47F2-AB54-6336525C55C3_zpsnmnzojwt.jpg

[Chris Griggs]

Cool! Thanks Brian. That is quite the frame underneath. Clearly very sturdy. Appreciate the lesson.

Also, I really just enjoy seeing what other folks here have made and are making. I wish more people would post their work.

[Brian Holcombe]

Anytime! I always like to see how are people are building things as well, so I look forward to seeing your progress.

[Chris Griggs]

Well,I got the last pair of leg blanks in clamps tonight so by tomorrow I'll have 4 legs. Then its time to start prepping the apron stock and get to the mortising. I'll do the template for the leg curves after I decide how deep to make the apron. The curves will be designed to accommodate the joinery (because that just so much easier that curved tenon shoulders). Maybe I'll actually manage to finish this project a reasonable amount of time.

[Prashun Patel]

I prefer the curved legs. Does the apron proportion feel right to you? My eye wants is a tad thinner. I cant quite tell, but is the curve irregular and thicker at the top than the bottom? If yr apron is this deep i would be curious to see how it looks with the flair thicker at the bottom. A top flair better presents the arms, but a bottom flair might look better with a massier apron...?

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks for the input Prashun. Yes, I agree, the apron looks to big. Finding the right balance between having enough depth to give me a decent amount of under seat storage, but not so much that the apron look really out of proportion is proving difficult.

Your talking about the flair of the legs??? Yes, they are thicker at the top. The inside of the legs has a curve that extends transitions into a flat at the apron than stays straight all the way to the top. The main curve on the outside of the legs is asymmetrical with the apex being at the same location (8 inches up) as where the curve on the back become a flat. This creates an effect of having the legs be consistent thickness below the apron but then slowly flair out moving up towards the arm rests. You're saying that you think a flair at the bottom (e.g. wider feet as opposed to tapering thinner) might balance a beefy apron more?

[Judson Green]

Had you thought of adding a panel? Doesn't have to be a whole frame and panel deal could just apply the panel (or something like that, maybe a inlay, some funky book match something) to the apron. Or perhaps the panel could be a drawer front. I know that's more work and would most likely decrease your storage capacity. But a drawer has its advantages. Let sleeping cats lay.

[Brian Holcombe]

I hope I'm not imposing with this, but I wanted to draw out my thoughts on this considering it's a storage bench;

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c181/SpeedyGoomba/64DCD0F9-4BD3-4BEA-9A29-88D2097056AC_zpsy43z96ll.jpg (http://s27.photobucket.com/user/SpeedyGoomba/media/64DCD0F9-4BD3-4BEA-9A29-88D2097056AC_zpsy43z96ll.jpg.html)

Frame and panel construction could lend itself to a bit more storage while retaining strength. Tongue and groove panels would be good for this.

[Chris Griggs]

Not imposing at all Brian. I love suggestions and appreciate you taking the time to post with your ideas. I am free to take or leave others idea's and I always get god stuff to consider from other's idea's.

So whats funny is I actually started out with a drawing very similar to yours and deliberately designed away from it. I decided it was just too Arts and Crafts for what I wanted. The truth is that while I like Arts & Crafts furniture I see so much of it that I get bored of it. Frame and panel though actually isn't something I've ruled out. In fact the whole reason I abandoned it in the first place was because I wanted a a shorter apron/body. Now that I might be going back to deeper, f&p is back on the table. I guess I really need to make up my mind about how much storage I want in it. The F&P case and something more like your drawing really makes more sense if I decide I really want a true storage bench vs sitting bench that happens to have a little storage space.

My leg blanks are all glued up so that next step from here is to look at my actual wood and look at things in life size. Currently I'm pretty attached to the exterior curves on the legs along with the curved uprights under the arms to match. In deciding whether or not to go F&P I'll begin by prepping my nice 10" wide boards as if I will use the full width for the apron. I'll also mock up some template for leg shapes look at the apron (or rail & style stock) next to the legs and templates. At this point i need to see full scale to make up my mind.

Thanks for all you input Brian. Again, very appreciated and no, not imposing at all.

[Chris Griggs]

Judson, yes everything you suggested I considered and even sketched out...much of direction I took with the examples I posted, had to do with what drawings and online pics my wife liked best. It is indeed better to let some sleeping cats lie:)

[Chris Griggs]

Had some good time in the shop today. Didn't do that much exciting though...mostly just prepping stock.

BUT, I did decide to make a 1/2 size to scale model of one leg and the bench apron.

Not for any reason having to with the project. Mostly I just wanted to take this photo to make Mogwai look like he had doubled in size;).

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Actually, this was a really helpful exercise and it really helped me test and dial in some proportions. Brain, if you nothing else your drawing reminded me that I should probably make the seat a little lower to accommodate a cushion.

So anyway, again this is half scale and represents the following dimensions.

Total height from floor to armrest will be 23". Height from floor to seat top of wooden part of seat (so not counting future cushioning) will be 17". As I was messing with this I realized that what seemed to look "right" was to divide that distance and have the distance from the floor to the bottom of the apron be half the distance (8.5") and have the distance from the bottom of the apron to the top of the wooden seat be the other half (so also 8.5"). This will leave me with about a 6" deep storage area one the curves, cleats and a t&g bottom is added, which is really about what I was aiming for when I first decided a bench with storage would be nice. The curves on the model are fairly rough, and not quite true to the design, but that's not really an issue because this was mainly to help me with some proportions. I'll dial the curves in when I make a full size leg template.

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[Brian Holcombe]

Chris,

how are you attaching the skirt to the legs? Even with multiple m&t's that is a lot of width to lock in. I personally avoid 90 degree joints that are wider than 4" which do not allow for movement across the grain.

i like to lean on classical proportions, the model by Le Corbusier is a helpful guide which makes the golden ratio very intuitive for practical use.

I think if the bottom of the leg below the skirt looked like a parabola with an off center point (not sure the appropriate mathematical description of this) it would improve how the curves mesh together. Right now I feel as if all of the curves are doing their own independent dance

Above the skirt is quite nice, I like how the arm is offset on the top of the curve.

[Judson Green]

Looks good Chris. Like the beading. Are you gonna curve the inside of the leg (bottom, under the apron) or taper it? Cuz it looks tapered in your mock up.

[Chris Griggs]

That's a neat looking table. Did you make that?

Yeah, the curves aren't there yet. I'm trying to create sorta an outward flair effect, not for any other reason than I saw a picture of a bench I liked were the legs curved outward. Anyway, yeah they aren't meshing right now. One thing that I think is making the curves not quit mesh is that I've been trying to create the effect without making the legs look to skinny at the bottom...though more skinny might be better. I need to keep playing.

For proportions I generally try to either use a golden ratio or a any sorta even subdivision. In this case if you were to divide the height of the bench into 8 parts the distance from the floor to the lid would be about 6/8 (3/4s of total) with leg to apron distance being 3/8 or the total and the bottom of apron to top of seat distance being 3/8 of the total...the remaining 2/8 (1/4) of the height is the seat to top of arm rest.

Anyway, its probably pretty obvious at this point that I don't really know what I'm doing. I just play with different subdivions and try to find something that looks right. It would probably be a good idea for more me to do more reading on classical design.

For the tenon and movement...that's something I was actually just thinking back through. There is of course the F&P option, but I was also thinking that if the multiple tenons were just pegged in holes that have been elongated vertically (except for the top one) that would be both strong and allow for movement.

I may very well just be designing myself into a disaster (both visually and structurally).

Just structurally speaking, I take it you maintain that F&P is the way to go?

[Chris Griggs]

Looks good Chris. Like the beading. Are you gonna curve the inside of the leg (bottom, under the apron) or taper it? Cuz it looks tapered in your mock up.

Thanks. Yes, currently I'm planning a curves to the inside below the apron that transitions into a flat at the apron. I haven't totally figured out the curves yet though and the curves on the mockup are all FUBAR...I didn't get them drawn on that accurately and I accidentally over cut them...for instance the top of the leg should curve out more but I brought it down accidentally which eliminated that effect.

[Judson Green]

personally I wouldn't worry about a frame and panel too much compared to the wide apron structurally speaking. its a 2 person bench right? dining room chairs receive far more abuse than that bench will ever get.

and the joinery (pining the top 4" or so of the apron) your considering seems fine to me. thinking of doors with much wider rails than your apron.

[Brian Holcombe]

Thanks, yup that is one of mine ( I occasionally make curves). Curves drive me crazy and have often driven me right to the point of turning the entire project into firewood just prior to that eureka moment where you love the result.

i maintain F&P as the wsy to go on this. I'm racking my brain thinking of a wsy to float that joint and maintain the structure and I really can't think of a way to do it well. F&P builds a truss system which is incredibly strong. You can modernize it to avoid the arts and crafts look by how you do the panel and his you attach to the leg (Maloof joints maybe? :) )

[Judson Green]

No denying it (f&p, like your drawing) would be stronger but why? Does a Maserati need to have the frame of a Peterbilt? At 8½" kinda hard to make a f&p look right. If Chris was going for deeper (more storage capacity) then f&p would be the way. I'd pin (or whatever) to top 4ish inches and use a short tenon (¼" unglued) for the balance. Or pin the top and allow for movement on the balance, think bread board ends.

[Chris Griggs]

No denying it (f&p, like your drawing) would be stronger but why? Does a Maserati need to have the frame of a Peterbilt? At 8½" kinda hard to make a f&p look right. If Chris was going for deeper (more storage capacity) then f&p would be the way. I'd pin (or whatever) to top 4ish inches and use a short tenon (¼" unglued) for the balance. Or pin the top and allow for movement on the balance, think bread board ends.


Yes, this is what I have in mind for the exact reason you mention. Pretty much a breadboard joint with two or 3 tenons. Top tenon glue and drawbored other tenon(s) un glued and pinned in longated hole.

Its a weird depth, big enough that it needs movement, but not big enough to make an F&P look right. F&P would mean reproportioning...which isn't necessarily an issue, I'll just need to think thru things some more.

Thanks for the continued idea's Brian and Judson.

[Chris Griggs]

Question. If I did do F&P what do you think the minimum width of the rails would need to be...structurally speaking. Keeping in mind that they are spanning about 42 inches?

[Brian Holcombe]

I would make them either slightly smaller than the legs (mortise and tenon) or of you did some sort of interlocking joint I would make them the same size as the leg.

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks Brain, that's helpful, I have something with a floating panel in mind that I'm currently stewing on. I could go either direction at this point. Cheers.

[Brian Holcombe]

Sounds good, looking forward to seeing the results.

[Prashun Patel]

I'm with Judson. I'd go for solid panel. Fixed tenon at only one point, and I think you will be fine. I just made a Shaker trestle table with a deep upper stretcher that does it the same way. The height of the apron will prevent racking even if it's not connected along its entire length.

[Brian Holcombe]

That solution should work. If a traditional f&p is too much than a 2" x 3" framing member mortised into the leg with the panel under it floating in a rabbet and glued at the top edge would be elegant and stronger than a panel mortised in the way that is proposed. You could even hide a stretcher behind the panel that could double as a supporting edge for the bottom of the storage container.

Anyways, Chris check out the wegner CH25 easy chair, specifically the front leg. That's the shape I'm talking about.

[Chris Griggs]

You could even hide a stretcher behind the panel that could double as a supporting edge for the bottom of the storage container.

This is a very good idea. Adds strength, and compliments the construction I already had in mind. I like this a lot.

Cool chair...yes I see what you mean by parabolic.

[Chris Griggs]

Well, I had a bit of time tonight so I decide it was time to just move forward with the build. I settled on a design (to be revealed as I build...the result may surprise you:p) and went about laying out a story stick.

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I had been waiting to do final prepping of the leg stock until had decided on design. With my story stick laid out, and with the little time I had left in the shop tonight, I decided to get all the legs to their near final dimensions so I can lay out the joinery.

I had already flattened/squared my reference faces so I decided as a next step to establish the final length and create nice square foot. I mark out the shoulder that will mate with the arm rests and from there lay out the the bottom of the legs simultaneously to ensure and equal shoulder to floor distance.

I take my time with the cut. Marking out on all four sides and then using a wide chisel to cut a v-notch...I think taking this time up front ultimately saves time, as it leaves me with almost no cleanup after sawing.
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With the notches laid out, I saw about 1/8 of an inch down right to the line on all four sides, saw about 1/2 the thickness on the last side I kerf, flip the piece over, and then saw the other half.
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The cuts aren't totally clean through and through, but all 4 sides are nice clean and square, so after sawing it just takes a few swipes with a block plane to get everything clean and square across the full thickness.

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WARNING: PURISTS AVERT YOUR EYES!!!

As a last step before I leave the shop tonight, I mark out the final 2x2 dimension and run the legs though my bandsaw cutting abut 1/32" shy of the final mark, which I will hit with a plane later on. I won't bother to clean up the sawn show faces yet,as there is not a need, and besides I'm going to end up sawing some curves in anyway so cleaning them up now would be a waste of time.

As an added bonus, bandsawing to near final dimension leaves me with a stack of 1/16" to 1/4" thick off cuts, which are potentially useful and far less messing than my usual pile of foreplane shavings.

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[Hilton Ralphs]

Looking good Chris. What is that backsaw you have?

[Chris Griggs]

Looking good Chris. What is that backsaw you have?

Thanks Hilton. That's my shop made "Kenyon Sash Saw": http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?206812-Shop-Made-Kenyon-Sash-Saw-Redux-(critiques-welcome)

[Brian Holcombe]

Looking forward to seeing your progression!

[Chris Griggs]

With the design decided and the leg blanks prepped I got started on the joinery last night.

I began by making a drawing template for the shape I will put into the legs and drew the pattern onto each of the blanks before laying out any joinery. This was done simply to dummy proof the layout. I may still tweak the shape I mocked up, but any changes will be minimal and not enough to impact joinery placement.

Before I did any cutting I used my story stick to mark out all of the mortises. All 16 are laid out together and the marks from one leg are applied to all others to ensure consistent alignment of all 8 rails (that's right Brian, I said rails :))

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With all the leg joinery laid out its time to start cutting. Mortises are one of those things that I still haven't settled on a "preferred" method of cutting both in terms of what I use to cut them and also, when I use a mortise chisel what method I like best. Truth be told, this is most likely because I really only complete a few actual furniture project each year, and over past few years, as I've gotten seriously into hand tool work, most of what I made as been casework, so mortising practice has been minimal (I find dovetailing for instance to be a good bit easier than M&T work).

Anyway, I decided to break out my new-to-me drill press and try a power/hand combo method. The mortises are laid out to fit my 3/8" mortise chisel so I usec a 1/4" Forsner bit to waste out the center area. My initial plan was to just chop the ends and pair the side but there was enough material left in there that I end up attacking the whole mortise with my mortise chisel similarly to how I would if I hadn't drilled it out. That is, using my mortise chisel in the BD position, I pair out a thin layer to establish some nice clean walls and then work down the length of the mortise chopping to full depth with my chisel. I think I picked up the paring out of a thin layer prior to chopping from one of Derek's tutorials, and it is a step I find very worthwhile whether I am fully chopping a mortise by hand or, in this case, chopping out what remains after wasting it out with a drill press. When I do this I not only find that I end up with much cleaner more consistent walls but that I can also work faster while chopping as chisel alignment becomes so easy and mindless.

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With all that material wasted out first, the chopping is very quick and easy and I am able to chop to full depth with one pass down the length of the mortise. However, overall I don't really feel like it saved me much time or produced a better result than just chopping it fully with a chisel, especially in this nice to work air dried walnut. I think I got a more even bottom easier than I would just mortising with a chisel, but other than that the results were pretty comparable. Perhaps in something harder and tighter grain like maple that doesn't split quite as nicely the drilling out would be more worth while. I'll will however say, that before I had any proper mortise chisel (or drill press) I on several occasion wasted out the mortise with a corded drill or brace&bit and then followed with a regular bench chisel, and in that context the boring out I feel was worthwhile. All said, in this future, if/when I use my drill press press to assist with mortising I believe I will size the mortise to the bit so that any followup chiseling is simply light paring.

The next mortise I did, I simply chopped with my 3/8" pigsticker, again first establishing the walls by paring a thin layer out, and then with the bevel of the chisel facing away from me, I chop down just away from the end nearest me and work down and back again (like how Klaus and Sellers do it). I tend to go back and forth between this method and the method where you establish a V in the center and then work back to each shoulder. I haven't decided which I prefer. The Sellers/Klaus way (which I used on these mortises so far) appeals to me more cognitively because there is less flipping back and forth of the chisel and also because that's how I chop hinges mortises, BUT in practice, I think I'm actually starting to prefer the "V-method" as I find (for reasons I can't explain) that I get slightly cleaner mortise walls with it and have an easier time getting and even mortise floor.

So all said, I've got 2 mortises done and 14 to go, and both the drill press/mortise chisel combo method as well as just using the chisel yield fine results. In the photo below the mortise on the left with the chisel in front of it was done just by chisel and the one on the right was drilled out first. I drilled out 3 additional mortises while I was drilling the first, but I'll probably do the rest with just a chisel, mainly because its just so damn satisfying, and doesn't take much (if at all longer).

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And, oh yeah, I got to put my 1 1/4" Narex parer to work here doing a bit of cleanup on the sides. I found this chisel to be great for this as its long length really lets you see and feel plumb/square, and you can really lean into it if you need to. Really this step is probably overkill (and arguably totally unnecessary) as a mortise chisel on its own leaves pretty even walls (if you don't muck thing up and in this case I for once didn't), but for me still taking the time to smooth out any extra bit of schmutz inside the mortise, potentially makes the process of fitting the tenons and getting a good final result that much easier later on.

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[Hilton Ralphs]

Keeping you busy I see.

I think you're supposed to use a drill bit where the diameter is equal to the mortise width so you don't end up having to mess with the sides.

[Steve Voigt]

Hey Chris,
Looking good…I enjoyed reading your thoughts on mortising. I'm in the same place--I haven't really settled on which approach I prefer with the pigstickers. Though, like you, I am absolutely sold on paring out a thin strip at the outset--makes registering the chisel much easier and more accurate.
Two questions: have you tried drilling a single hole vs no holes at all? (I haven't, but plan to tonight)
Also, might it not be easier to pare out the thin strip before drilling?

-Steve

[Judson Green]

Looks good Chris. And I do as Hilton describes... drilling the same size as the mortise.

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks guys.


Keeping you busy I see.

I think you're supposed to use a drill bit where the diameter is equal to the mortise width so you don't end up having to mess with the sides.

Indeed, I was thinking that I'd get cleaner sides by using an undersized bit and paring the walls. It didn't really go as planned and I ended up using the mortise chisel anyway. Next time I will just size my mortises to the bit as you say.

I'm really good at teaching people what not to do...:)


Hey Chris,
Looking good…I enjoyed reading your thoughts on mortising. I'm in the same place--I haven't really settled on which approach I prefer with the pigstickers. Though, like you, I am absolutely sold on paring out a thin strip at the outset--makes registering the chisel much easier and more accurate.
Two questions: have you tried drilling a single hole vs no holes at all? (I haven't, but plan to tonight)
Also, might it not be easier to pare out the thin strip before drilling?

-Steve

Yeah, the paring out just makes the process so much easier. I'd imagine that with enough mortising one would develop good enough control and muscle memory to make the step somewhat arbitrary, but I'm and amateur and don't do that much mortising so it really helps me get good results with much less effort, and that extra 30 seconds spent paring I feel really saves me time while chopping.

I haven't tried the single whole method, though I have seen CS reference it.

Hadn't though about paring before drilling...could be helpful in making sure I am aligning the bit exactly to the mortise walls if/when I do the same thing using a bit that is the full width of the mortise.

[Chris Griggs]

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8 down, 8 to go. I'm at about 15 minutes per mortise right now for mortises that are about 2" long (give or take 1/2") and about 1 1/4" deep (that I've already laid out). I'm going to see if I can get that under 10 min per mortise by the end of the next 8.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I don't think I've commented on this thread yet, but I'm digging seeing this, Chris! Nice work so far.

I think you can hit the 10 minutes easy - walnut's not too hard. The slowest part is when chips get stuck.

I haven't had to knock out that many mortises in one project, but something that comes to mind when you have that many is making a template, to obviate the need for the little pared-out starting bit - clamp it in place and it would let you start knocking pretty hard right off - remove it after the first pass.

I don't know if it'd actually make anything quicker, it just seems to me that making that little pared trench seems like it takes me longer than whacking out the heavy part of things.

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks Josh. I'm glad my fumbling through a project is of interest. Yeah, I think I can hit the 10 minute mark pretty easily. As I was chopping last night, I actually started to question the value of the trench. I did one without it and really just taking a little extra time to set the chisel in the first series of chops worked just as well. I think to some extent the easier to work the wood is the less it matters. Last time I chopped mortises it was in hard maple with kinda gnarly grain so things were more likely to go off direction or break on the edges of the mortise if I didn't keep my first series of chops relativity light. The pared trench there really helped. In this stuff it still helps but feel less necessary.

Anyway, as far as chopping mortises go, the wasting out is really the quickest part, and I don't feel like size or depth of the mortise (within reason) makes that big of a difference in speed. Where I could stand to shave the most time off is on the end. Getting a fairly even bottom to right depth, and making sure there are no little chunks/high area's in the bottom is where I feel like I'm wasting, though I'm finding the getting a 1/4" BE chisel down there to sorta release any lingering fibers and pare the bottom (as oppesed to just using it to scoop out already loose chunks) is making hitting the final depth a good bit quicker. With these particular mortises the bottom/final depth has to pretty dialed in as I want them deep enough for maximum joint strenght, but needed to be careful not to over cut so that the joint doesn't become exposed one the curve is cut into the leg.

Actually, with that in mind I just realized that the other 8 mortises should go pretty quickly and won't really be a good test of my speed as they go through to the first mortises and thus hitting a target even/flatish bottom isn't an issue...I'm done when I break through the the first mortises.

[Chris Griggs]

Knocked out a couple more mortises this morning skipping the paring of the trench and got my time down to about 7 and half minutes each. As I predicted the fact that they went through to the others shaved some time off, but even without that I feel like the repetition is making me faster and I'd be hitting 8-10 minutes each if I had to get a good bottom.

For this first one I went at good steady pace but didn't rush. I got nice clean results and 7 1/2 minutes is just where things ended up.

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This next one I tried to shoot for 5 minutes, but really that started to feel like rushing. It's still a decent mortise but my chisel wondered a little (you can see on the right wall bows out slightly at the top) from me trying to go to fast and in the end it still took me between 7 and 7 1/2 minutes to finish.


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It's funny, but paying attention to my speed is making realize how sensitive an operation mortising is. Efficiency in mortising doesn't come from moving fast or taking more aggressive heavy whacks; it comes from knowing when and where to whack. With the chisel in any given location you really need to develop and intuition and sensitivity to when smacking down further and harder is worth while and when picking the chisel up to begin the next cut is more efficient. And even though there are set methods one might follow in terms of how you order the location of your cuts and how you orient the bevel, efficiency, especially after you established the mortise, comes from really feeling where the next cut should be and in what bevel orientation and/or chisel angle will take the biggest chunk with the most ease and give you the best leverage when it comes to prying. Those big chunks that you see guys like Klaus, Follansbee, and Sellers take come from experience, sensitivity and a real intuition for what the chisel and wood want. It's woodworking Judo...maximum efficiency, minimum effort. Or as George might say: You have to make love to the mortise chisel (which isn't nearly as painful as it sounds:)).

Yes, the more of these I cut back to back the more I realize that brawny bashing is wasted effort, and that contrary to what it seems, bashing out mortises with a big chisel is one of the more sensitive operations in hand tool woodworking.

[Prashun Patel]

"Efficiency...comes from knowing when and where to whack."

Practice trumps minor tweaks in technique.

Looks really great!!!!

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks Prashun.




Practice trumps minor tweaks in technique.


Its amazing how often I forget this and am forced to relearn it time and time again.

[Chris Griggs]

Made some more progress this weekend, though not quite as much as I would have liked. Most my shop time yesterday was spent getting all 8 rails dimensioned, so I could then do the tenoning in one fell swoop. I did, however, get some joinery done before I ran out of shop time.

The day started out with a detour as I realized I had cut 4 mortises, the ones for the top side rails, too large. This wasn't actually a mistake, but rather, the result of ill conceived design that I rethought and then decided to change. The repairs are purely structural, just filling in part of the mortise, so I don't have a 1/2" of extra space at the top. It will be fully covered by another piece of wood, so I didn't need to worry about cosmetics. I have no idea if what I did is "proper" but it seemed to work fine for me.

I began by fitting some plugs into the mortises that filled in slightly more than I want to end with. Once the glue was dry I flushed them up, removing the bulk of the waste with a paring chisel and then taking a couple swipes my my dear friend Little Victor to ensure they were totally flush. As final step, I marked the new end of the mortises, and using a freshly sharpened bench chisel, lightly chopped and paired back the new line.

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Despite the detour I did manged to the first pair of rails tenoned into the legs. This past summer and fall, life got too busy to do much woodworking, so these were the first tenons I'd cut in quite a few months. I was very pleased to find that even though I was out of practice, the tenoning when pretty quickly and smoothly (after the first one anyway). My tenons were either fitting off the saw or were just a couple swipes of a float from fitting, and all my shoulders turned out nice and tight with no fuss.

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With the first assembly fit together very nicely, I decide to do one final quality check and look for twist. Since this is a bench and not a door a little twist won't actually matter and the opposing rails will push everything straight, but I wanted to do the check as a self assessment measure. With the winding sticks on the assembly, I was disappointed to see a moderate amount of twist in the structure. Again, it doesn't matter for this project, and I was able to easily push the assembly flat to, so I know the front and back stretchers will have no trouble aligning everything. I am, however, reminded that slip fitting tenons, and tight tenon shoulders, the stuff that gets so much focus, are the easy part of the equation...the ability to consistently get a frame to come together flat/straight is what truly separates the men/women from the boys/girls. For this reason, I still need to up my game when it come to doors. Indeed, the last time I made F&P doors, it took quite a bit of tweaking to get them flat. I will continue to check for twist on the remaining 3 leg/rail assemblies and work to get them to come out flat in the hopes that the next time I makes doors (where flatness REALLY counts) they will come out twist free with little to no fiddling.
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[Brian Holcombe]

Chris, looks good. I think a small amount of twist is acceptable, since it will clamp out when you install your skirt. I've got a good sense of the direction you decided to go with the design.

[Chris Griggs]

Chris, looks good. I think a small amount of twist is acceptable, since it will clamp out when you install your skirt. I've got a good sense of the direction you decided to go with the design.

Thanks Brian. Yep, I took your advice and decided on floating panel construction. The more I thought about the more I thought it would look classier...I just was having trouble figuring out the right proportions, but once I got the proportions sorta out and sketched up a new design I new it was the way to go. I really do take the time to consider all the advice I get, so I really appreciate all your guys input here. Was very helpful.

Yes, for this project the twist will create zero problems, it just something I need to work to improve so that the next time I do a door or something where it does matter, I don't need to take a bench of extra time straightening out.

[Brian Holcombe]

Anytime, happy to help. I always seem to spend a great deal of time torturing myself with the proportions as well, all worth it in the end.

[Chris Griggs]

Sawing for a perfect fit.


The cost of the risk...

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...is well worth the payoff.

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[Hilton Ralphs]

Sawing for a perfect fit.


The cost of the risk...

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Chris, maybe my brain has shut-down already but I have no idea what you were doing in this photo.

Please explain. The results look stunning though.

[Chris Griggs]

Chris, maybe my brain has shut-down already but I have no idea what you were doing in this photo.

Please explain. The results look stunning though.

Gluing material onto a slightly overcut, too small tenon. 2 out of 16 tenons were slightly overcut and needed a repair. Despite dealing with those couple fixes the whole process is still preferable to doing a bunch of trimming to get tenons dial in. Its amazing how much faster and more accurate M&T joints are when you aim for a fit right off the saw. Its something that is said a lot, but sawing these 16 tenons over the past few days really drove that concept home for me. Most my tenons still needed a hair of trimming to get a nice fit, but aiming for a fit off the saw really minimized that need and led to much more accurate results.

[Hilton Ralphs]

Ah thanks Chris, makes sense.

[Chris Griggs]

With all the M&T joints cut and fit, and with the little time I had before work this morning I knocked out the nice easy task of plowing stopped grooves in the legs for the panels to float in.

The easiest way I know to plow a stopped groove is using my router plane with its fence. Plowing grooves with a router plane can actually be quite efficient if you do it right. For quite a while, before I was able to purchase my plow, I got by using just my router plane. Here is the process I use that helps me get quick clean grooves with a router plane.

1st, just like with a plow, I begin establishing my groove at the end of the cut and work backwards until the groove has been established. Just like with a plow plane this helps ensure a groove that is straight, as opposed to one that gets pulled out of line by the grain. Taking light cuts while establishing the groove is key here. A router plane does not support the fibers at all around the blade so if you take heavy cuts too soon you will end up with ragged walls.
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Once the groove is cleanly established though you can really hog out waste in a hurry. In something easy to work like this straight grained air dried walnut, I'm taking shavings up to about 1/32" thick once the groove is established. You can very quickly fall into a rhythm of taking a cut, and then with a couple quick flicks of you fingers, loosening, deepening, re_tightening the blade, and then cutting again. It sounds like a lot of steps for each cut but it really is just a couple finger flicks for each pass.

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The fence setting for the grooves that will hold the front and back panels is different from that on the grooves that will hold the side panels. After cutting all 4 grooves for one set of panels, I decided to time how long it took to cut the other 4 grooves. Total time for resetting the fence, and cutting all 4 stopped 1/4" grooves to their full 1/4" depth was about 8 minutes. Of course, on through grooves a plow plane is quicker, but for stopped grooves....8 minutes for 4, cut with no noise and no dust is more than acceptable to me.

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[Jim Koepke]

Thanks for showing this Chris.

It is a good read and is very helpful for others in the different aspects of joinery.

jtk

[Judson Green]

Looking good Chris! Fun watching this come together.

[Brian Holcombe]

Looks great. I've personally been considering a tongue and groove plane for these types of things, do you prefer the router plane over that?

i'm a hybrid woodworker, so while I cut joinery by hand, I often do stuff like this with a router.

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks guys.

Brian, I don't have a t&g plane (though I would love to have a Stanley or LN 49), but I do have the LV small plow along with the wide blade/t&g attachments. For stopped work, I think the router plane is really the way to go. The plow is too long to get to full depth on these. Technically, I could have started the groove with the plow and then finished them with a chisel, but the router plane with the fence made it a quick easy one tool job (though the plow was/is being used on the grooves for the rails/stretchers).

Also, worth noting is that a T&G plane does not have an adjustable fence so would you not be able to get a cut in far enough on legs like these. Additionally, for cutting the tongue on the panel that will go into the grooves on the legs I will be using a rabbet plane on each side of the board, as using my t&g setup on the plow would require me to cut the tongue straight across the endgrain...much easier IMO to cut 2 cross grain rabbets.

T&G planes are super great for standard long grain t&g work. I will be using my t&g attachment for the bottom of the storage area for instance and for this kind of thing I would actually love to have a dedicated plane (e.g. No. 49), but for a groove between 2 mortises, I can't think of anything easier than the router plane.

My router plane as a special place in my heart. It was the first premium plane I ever purchase, and it was the tool that more than any other really opened up the world of handtool work for me. Before I had other dedicated joinery plane I used if for rabbets, groove, tenons...and all sorts of things. I now have other planes, and also more skill with chisels than I once did, so it sees much less use than it used too, but I still love it. When its the right tool for a job it is THE right tool for a job.

[Chris Griggs]

So remember back in post #81 when I filled in part of the mortise for the top side stretchers? Here's why I did that...

Because the lid of the bench will open for storage and because the bench had arms the lid can only extend as far as the interior faces of the legs. When I initially designed things I made the top side stretcher deeper than the front and back so that there tops would be flush with the lid...hence the longer mortises. As I thought about this I realized that I didn't like the look of those wider stretchers. What I elected to do instead was to make all the top strechers/rails the same size and then on the ends install what I guess I'd call blades (for lack of a better word) that slightly overhang the side stretchers (just like the lid will on the front) and created a uniform appearance all the way around. This probably doesn't make much sense to read but the post just below this one will show the frame assembled and you'll see what I mean.

But first the joinery...

I elected to attached these blades using a short stopped sliding dovetail. In this specific case I only tapered one side of the dovetail and left the other side flat as the female portion of the joint is nest to a mortise and I wanted to leave enough material between the two and avoid any interference.

Even though these were only 4 joints I ended up futzing with them for quite a while in figuring out how wide/deep to make them and in fitting them. It actually ended up taking a few hours for just a few joints and they still ended up kinda dog-ish, BUT all the show faces look clean, and sliding dovetails also serve to pull the legs into the tenoned stretcher creating rock solid end assemblies.

These pics are ordered to show the process I ended up using.

Marking the shoulders of these pieces from the shoulder of the stretches they will sit against. Then using two gauge settings and marking from the same face, I establish the width of the tail at its widest point (btw before determining the width at the widest point its a good idea to make sure that the resultant tail will be sufficiently stout at its narrowest point). Finally using a DT marker to layout the angle. Worth noting here is that, becasue it is being used as a reference for dt marker I did shoot the endgrain before layout..I wouldn't have bothered to shoot or plane the end grain on a tenon for instance, as I don't use the end grain for a reference in that case.

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Using my dozuki here to cut the shoulders (thanks Stu), cutting the angle of the tail with a bench chisel, and then refining with my 18mm Koyomaichi parer (thanks Stu again!). This is for the angle side BTW, for the non angled side I pretty much cut it just like a tenon, BUT because I wanted the these to be really dialed in (since I would be transferring them to mark out the female part of the joint) I took the idiot proof route, cut a little wide and then brought the non angled cheek to final depth with my router plane. A paring chisel would have worked there too but I was feeling cautious so, becasue it could, I took the idiot proof safe route for the flat side.

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[Prashun Patel]

Darn you. You are really making me want to invest in a new saw... Nice work and great documentation.

[Chris Griggs]

sliding dovetails cont...

Marking out the the female portion of the joint directly from the tails. I don't always directly transfer the marks, but in these ones have a shoulder at the front which makes transferring really easy. I then sawed out the walls using my "mortise tip" dozuki (same saw as before...again from stu). This thing is great for stopped cuts. It works best if you saw a little past the stopped part of the joint, which I did (though not in the photo). Typically, the front of a stopped joint is hidden by a shoulder anyway, so saying past the stop is totally fine. Anyway, it doesn't get you 100% of the way there, but it makes getting to full depth or near full depth on stopped cuts a lot easier. With the walls sawed down wasting out the rest with a chisel was pretty easy.

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The non show side of the assembled joint.
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The show side. Here you can see the slight overhang/reveal I was talking about at the top of my last post. This will match the slight overhang of the lid at the front.

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Up on all fours!

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[Chris Griggs]

Darn you. You are really making me want to invest in a new saw... Nice work and great documentation.

I mostly use western saws, but I do like having a dozuki around for fine cross grain work. Big fan of the mortise tip on this one. This one is Goyokucho/Razor Saw brand. I think it cost me like $40-$50 shipped from Japan.

[Brian Holcombe]

Thanks Chris. Funny enough I have been looking for a Japanese saw as well. Leaning toward a ryoba 210mm to start with.

The bench is coming along well!

[Graham Haydon]

Good stuff Chris, I must say I do enjoy chopping a mortice by hand and you write up is very acurate. I find I have a basic system but as you mention adjustment on the fly to suit the situation is essential.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Chris - is that one of the rubber handled saws from the "Toolbox saws" category over at Stu's, or something else? I'm having trouble finding it. Do you have the Gyokucho model number?

[Chris Griggs]

Chris - is that one of the rubber handled saws from the "Toolbox saws" category over at Stu's, or something else? I'm having trouble finding it. Do you have the Gyokucho model number?

Hi Joshua. No, no rubber handle, it has the typical rattan rapped handle. Its actually not listed on his site. I believe the model number is 306, but you can just order the #370 (http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=316_333_389&products_id=666) and than in your order notes ask Stu to substitute it with the "mortice tip" version. They were the same price when I bought mine, I would assume they still are but you can always email Stu before ordering just to make sure.

(BTW, the #370 is 25ppi and the mortice tip #306 is more like 18ppi...just FYI in case it matter to someone)

[Chris Griggs]

After being away from home for a week (first visiting my folks in MN and then going to the in-laws in Bucks County, PA), it felt get to some good time in the shop today and make some progress on the build.

Today was panel raising day.

I had initially planned to use flat raised panels (see right in photo) but ended up doing beveled panels (see left). I felt this added a little bit more dimension and depth.
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The method I used for raising them was pretty standard and straight forward. First marking how far in and how far down I wanted the bevel to go, then hogging off most the waste with a coarsely set jack and following that with a finely set jack. That was for the long grain, short cross grain was pretty much the same but I used smaller planes and took skewed cuts. Using a fenced rabbetting plane, I then cut a uniform thickness rabbet to get a nice even fit in the grooves the panels will sit in. The panels will be glued at the top to give some additional support to the top stretcher which is relatively narrow and flexes some under a persons weight. I don't normally think of a panel as a structural component, but in this case it will play a supporting role (please ignore stupid pun :rolleyes:), so I was especially careful to make sure the tongues were a snug, slip fit to ensure a good glue bond at the top.

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I've been making a point lately to try to work at a steady pace and rhythm, but progress was kinda polky today. I've noticed that as I get farther into a project I start to work with a little to much caution which tends to break my rhythm and slow me down some. It's starting to look like something though, and all in all progress on this has been pretty steady. Next thing is to make arms and do their joinery. Once that's done I just need to cut/shape some curves, add some cleats and a bottom, glue-up/draw-bore, make a lid and attach its hardware, and then finish. Still a good bit to do, but I suspect those last steps will go relatively​ quickly.

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[Brian Holcombe]

Nice! Coming along very well.

[Adam Cruea]

Looking awesome, man.

I really like those raised panels. They give the bench a *lot* of dimension and depth. Definite good choice. :)

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks dudes! Its funny how stuff changes as you build. I had envisioned these as flat panels the entire time, but once I did the first one as flat and put the assembly together it didn't seem right so I added the bevels. Always hard to how something is going to look until its cut and together. Glad you agree that it was the right decision.

Thanks for the comments! Hoping to make some more good progress over the next couple days.

[Judson Green]

Looking good Chris!

[Chris Fournier]

Nice work Chris. Your first comments resonate with me a lot. My inner woodworker wants to go wild with design, my inner homeowner knows that restraint in design is likely the best path. Tortured.

[Chris Griggs]

Nice work Chris. Your first comments resonate with me a lot. My inner woodworker wants to go wild with design, my inner homeowner knows that restraint in design is likely the best path. Tortured.

Thanks Chris! Appreciate your comments! My inner woodworker is winning out to some extent on this one, and the bench is quite different than my original simple design, though I am still showing some restraint. I must confess the pale white maple and sycamore in the corner of the shop that I was planning to use to make small square plugs to covers the draw-pore peg holes is taking hold over me. It's saying "go all out, order some holly, and why stop at plugs, why not add some stringing while your at it". Tortured is right!

At the moment though my inner home-owner is doing dishes and other housework so my woodworker has not set foot in the shop yet today. Hoping to head down shortly.

[Christopher Charles]

Looks great Chris, really like the crispness on the raised panels. Thanks for the thread--I find the build threads the most interesting these days.

Cheers,
C

[Brett Bobo]

I really like how it's shaping up and I'm enjoying the build process as well, particularly when it's as detailed as yours has been. For the rabbets on the raised panels, was it difficult to register the rabbeting plane to get square, crisp edges with the bevels already cut? Any further detail on this would be appreciated.

[Chris Griggs]

I really like how it's shaping up and I'm enjoying the build process as well, particularly when it's as detailed as yours has been. For the rabbets on the raised panels, was it difficult to register the rabbeting plane to get square, crisp edges with the bevels already cut? Any further detail on this would be appreciated.

Thanks guys.

Brett. No, not hard at all to cut the rabbets with the bevels there. You just need to make sure you are registering the fence fully against the edge, and that gets you crisp, square rabbets. The fence gives you the square cut NOT the sole.

You can BTW do it the other way around, cutting the rabbet first and then the bevel. Because I started with the intention of having flat panels, on the first one I did, I had already cut the rabbet when I decided to add the bevel. On the one where the rabbet was cut first, I used a shoulder plane to add the bevels. BUT, I definitely found it quicker and easier to first cut the bevels with bench planes and than add the rabbet.

[Chris Griggs]

Lots of fun in the shop that past few days. Completed the joinery, made some templates, cut and shaped some curves, made some dowels/pin, and started glueup.

Following holiday visits with the family I got back to thing by cutting the mortises and tenons that will joiner the arms to the end assemblies. Laid everything out with the end assemblies dry fit together and went about sawing the tenons and cutting the mortises.

Started out cutting the tenons by hand per my usual method, but wanted to speed things up to I moved over to the bandsaw to saw the cheeks for the tenons on the remaining 3 out of 4 legs. I've never done tenons on a bandsaw before. It was pretty fun, was quick, and yielded good results. I bandsawed just away from my line and with the line still there was able to trim the tenons until I'd just removed it to get the 1" by 1" tenons I desired. Normally I would do the mortise first but in this case, becasue the tenons were part of an assembly, I did the mortises second so that I could make sure their distance/size fit correctly on the tenon as they were spaced when assembled.

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For the mortises, which were 1 by 1 by 5/8" deep I brought a power tool assist in again, boring out the waste with a forstner bit on my drill press and then chopping everything square with a chisel. As you can see my drilling turned out to be a little off, but everything ended up fitting well.

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Next up...drawing curves, making templates, shaping and assembly with drawboring and fox wedges!

[Chris Griggs]

With all the joinery cut I'm ready to lay out my curves.

I made the template for the curves in legs before I did any other building, as I needed it to make decisions about joinery layout, so that was a simple matter of tracing the pattern on both sides of the legs.

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For the curves on the lower stretchers, I didn't bother with a template as they are a simple symmetrical curve extending 1/2 up from the bottom at the apex (I decided on this distance/curve btw, becasue makes the thinnest part of the rail just above the apex the same width as the top stretchers). To get the curve I drive some finish nails into my bench top and one in the dead center of the rail itself, on the waste side of the 1/2" mark. I then use a thin off cut from some earlier dimensioning (glad I saved those) and bend it around the nails to get my drawing curve. I follow the same process on one long stretcher and one short stretch, and then simply used the stretchers themselves as templates for the opposite stretchers after I finished cutting and shaping them.
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I was unsure of the what exact shape/proportions would look best on the arms so I made a template for these first out of 1/4" ply using the same method as above. The shape was then roughed out on the bandsaw and fared with a block plane.


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I sure am glad I made a template first. As it turned out my initial proportions were out of scale (I went as far as to rough out the first arm before redoing the template). At 4 inches wide at the front the arm just felt too wide for the legs..it overhung them too much on the outside (see first photo below). Ultimately, I kept the initial shape and simply narrowed the arms down by an inch, which fit much better (see second photo)

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[Pat Barry]

To get the curve I drive some finish nails into my bench top ...
Now that Chris, is the definition of a workbench!

[Chris Griggs]

Not a a lot to say about cutting and shaping the curves other than it took a good bit of time and work, but was a lot of fun. Basically everything got run through the baandsaw and than it on to spokeshaves, files, rasps, small planes, and whatever it takes to get pleasing, fare curves. I got a chance to use my new SBUS in a project for the first time in faring the gentle outside curve of the arms. I always love the first time I get to use a new tool in a project.

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Worth noting here is that I held off on finishing the tenon shoulder where the legs will attach to the arms until after all the shaping on the legs was done. Not only would shaping potentially mess up nice crips shoulder lines, but because I under cut them with a chisel doing things in the other order would certainly have led to a big gappy shoulders. I also drilled the drawbore pin holes in the legs before putting the hole thing together for one last dry fitting.

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[Chris Griggs]

With all the joiner done its time to get ready for glue-up. Because seats undergo a lot of stress, I decided early on that I would drawbore peg all the stretchers. I guess maybe its not a "true" or "full" drawbore as the pin holes won't come out the other side of the leg, but I've done stopped drawbores before and its worked well for me. I'll just need to be carful not to hammer too hard and blow out the other side when I'm driving them (which I did...on one....more on that later)

I have several pieces of wood in my shop that were mixed in with my in-laws walnut pile that I "think" is hickory. Its hard, its stringy, in springy, and its no fun to work and it sure looks like hickory anyway (See photo...Is this hickory?). The stuff is riddled with worm and beetle holes so its not really good for making anything, but it does make for great dowel stock.

I begin by slitting a piece of using my glue scraping/splitting chisel (which is just a cheap chisel that I have a dull rounded over bevel on), and than using my 5 1/4 4" camber I hog down the pieces until they are roughly 1/4 square. Once they are roughly dimension I cut them into ther final lengths and then go about round and fitting each one using a block plane clamped upside down in a vise. Once each one seems reasonably even and fits on both ends in the holes I bored previously I call it good. They won't look perfect but that's totally fine as all of them will either be hidden on the case interior or covered with ebony plugs.


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I use my favorite little shop knife to sharpen a point in each one (love this knife, tip is used for layout and blade for everything else) and then using the forstner bit that I used to drill the holes in the legs I put a mark on each tenon (which I will drill about 1/16" in towards the shoulder from to get me drawbore effect)
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[Chris Griggs]

Moment of truth...time to glueup the end assemblies.

Before putting anything together, I cut nail some pine cleats to the inside of the rails...these are what the t&g bottom/shelf will rest on. With everything apart I finish plane each part individually. This gives me a chance to use my new toy some more.

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I hate glueups. Something always goes wrong. Happily, the first assembly went together perfectly, and the drawbore pegs brought everything together tight with ease. BUT of course, every project must have a disaster and this one's occurred during the glueup of the other end. After hammering in one of the drawbore pegs I had a shoulder that didn't close up. At the time I thought perhaps the peg hadn't fully seated in the tenon's hole so I pounded it down harder. I WAS WRONG.
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Turns out a little extra clamping pressure was all that was needed, but I didn't realize that until after I blew the peg straight through the other end (the show face) of the leg and knocked out rather large chunk of wood. I was lucky though, the wood came out (mostly) in one solid chunk and I was able to glue it back into place for a pretty clean repair. After making the repair I wiped some DNA on the wood to see what it will look like with finish. There are still a couple small areas where I splinters came out but with the alcohol it just looks like a little tearout so I probably won't do any further filling. Also, it was fortunately on a back leg, so its not likely anyone will ever notice it.

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So anyway, the end assemblies otherwise went together well, and it felt good to have a couple pieces totally assembled. I am pleased with how things look so far.

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[Chris Griggs]

Okay...last new post of today...I took too many pictures over that past few days!

With the side rails/panels and legs all joined the next step was too attach the arms. These are attached with stubby tenon on the tops of the legs into mortises on the underside of the arms. While the glue bond would likely be enough I knew I wanted a mechanical attachment too as a bench will more than likely get picked up and moved around by its arms. I had considered through wedged mortises, but there is no other exposed joinery on this piece and I wanted to keep it that way. This left me considering two other options a) drive pins though the tenons or b) attempt a fox wedge. I decided on option b becasue, well, I'd never done a fox wedge before and also I didn't want additional dowel holes showing on the inside of the arms.

I decide to make my life easy and use the same angle for the wedging that I use for my dovetails 1:8. I happen to have a guide block I made set to this angle and it makes chopping the correct angle in the mortises a breeze. I set a depth mark on the wedge stock to the same depth as the mortise and layout my wedges using a 1:8 dovetail guide to match the angle I chopped. I still end up up doing a little trimming on my wedges by pulling them across the sole if my block plane, I am confident that I got a good match to the mortise. I kerfed the tenons the same way I would any other wedged tenon, first drilling a small hole betweem 1/16-1/8" from the edge of the cheek at the base of the tenon and then sawing down with a dovetail saw about 1/8" in.

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With the wedges in place, I add some glue, get a big mallet and some clamps at the ready, CROSS MY FINGERS, and drive the joint home. SUCCESS! IT WORKED (some what to my surprise). Things got a little held up just using a the mallet but a couple clamps cranked down finish the job and I have a joint that I am confident will out last me and probably out last the wood its made out of. I haven't gotten to attach the second arm yet. Fingers crossed it goes just as well.

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[Adam Cruea]

Not sure your dowels are hickory, but I could be wrong. I've never split hickory because it's so flexible; I have to saw it. *shrug* Might be pecan (in the same family). If you really want to know, put a 90* edge on it and see if it stays sharp (like, cut paper/skin sharp).

I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but for your pins, have you just put a little chamfer on the end you're putting into the wood? That leaves a flat face, not a point like what you have. Might be easier to tell when the pin bottoms out and with a wood like hickory/pecan, might make it a little harder to put through something like walnut.

[Chris Griggs]

Not sure your dowels are hickory, but I could be wrong. I've never split hickory because it's so flexible; I have to saw it. *shrug* Might be pecan (in the same family). If you really want to know, put a 90* edge on it and see if it stays sharp (like, cut paper/skin sharp).

I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but for your pins, have you just put a little chamfer on the end you're putting into the wood? That leaves a flat face, not a point like what you have. Might be easier to tell when the pin bottoms out and with a wood like hickory/pecan, might make it a little harder to put through something like walnut.

I was hoping you'd respond about he hickory. Hmmmm, I wonder what it is if not hickory. Just looked up "pecan" lumber and it does look a bit like that. Its nasty stringy stuff though, but seems to make for good dowel stock.

Actually Adam, you point about the chamfer is well taken. I was actually thinking the same thing, but worried that if the drawbore was a little too tight or if the tenons aren't quite seated enough when I drive them in it might not quite "catch" in the tenon hole or in the hole on the otherside of the mortise. That's probably a stupid concern on my part. I can see the alignment (and amount of offset) in the holes I bored and a chamfer would likely be fine and preferable for the stopped hole...I just worry too much about stupid stuff going wrong. Anyway, again your point is very well taken...you read my mind and brought up something I was sorta wondering about already. Thanks!

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Looking good, Chris!

The last time I wanted to do blind drawbore, I did like Adam suggests (I used a pencil sharpener for the chamfer) and then used a knife to relieve a little more on the side that would initially have to "snake" around the tenon to help guide it a little more.

[Chris Griggs]

That's an idea Joshua! Didn't even occur to me to just make one side more chamfered. This is why I love this place!

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I don't know if it actually helped or not. But it worked out in the end. I like to think it did, but that's just me patting myself on the back.

[Judson Green]

Wow looking good Chris!

Though your progress is making me like a lazy doff, I haven't spent any quality time in my shop for about two weeks.

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks Judson. I have had more time in the shop lately than I've probably had in two years. That last two years were crazy (cross-country move, new jobs, wedding, bought house and moved AGAIN...though only 6 blocks this time) and I'm ready for 2014 to be a year of less talk about woodworking and more actual woodworking (okay I'll probably talk about it just as much). It is always hard to consistently find shop time though, even having no kids.

I think I started this about 4 weeks ago (st post in Jan 4th), and I anticipate it will be ready for finish in about a week, which for me is a fast timeline (I'm typically very slow). Some that is because I'm learning to work faster and with a more steady rhythm and some is because I made a lot of time for myself to get down into the shop lately. I hope I continue to do both those thing an increasing amount this year.

[Brian Holcombe]

Wedged tenons for the arm rests....Yes!

[Adam Cruea]

Hickory does make for some awesome dowels. I used it to drawbore my workbench.

Here's a video of me driving one of them home, even:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10200125714968539&l=1507254987643811823

And that's only a 1/2" dowel I'm beating the snot out of there. The mallet was made of QSWO and putting in the drawbore pins on my bench basically destroyed it.

[edit]Those are 1/2" dowels driven through 15/32" holes that are 3/32" off in the tenon. So basically, 1/8" smaller than the dowel.

[Chris Griggs]

Hickory does make for some awesome dowels. I used it to drawbore my workbench.

Here's a video of me driving one of them home, even:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10200125714968539&l=1507254987643811823

And that's only a 1/2" dowel I'm beating the snot out of there. The mallet was made of QSWO and putting in the drawbore pins on my bench basically destroyed it.

[edit]Those are 1/2" dowels driven through 15/32" holes that are 3/32" off in the tenon. So basically, 1/8" smaller than the dowel.

That's pretty awesome Adam! Fun video. Indeed, excellent dowels!

[Chris Griggs]

Not a lot to show from this past weekend. I did get some time in the shop but opted to spend a good chunk of the weekend enjoying some quality time with my wife watching the entire 8th and final season of Dexter together. It was quite an enjoyable weekend!

I did get the lid made though as well as complete the glueup. The widest piece of clear walnut I had left was about 12" wide and I needed a 16" lid so I ended up gluing on additional 4 inches. I usually like my edge glueups to be symmetrical (in terms of the width of each piece) especially if my grain match isn't as good as I would like (and this one wasn't) but it seemed silly not use the full 12" width. Anyway, despite not being able to get quite as good of a grain match as I would like the lid/seat still came out pretty nice and things matched better than I had initially expected. I had originally planned to just trim it with walnut and use something secondary for the rest of the lid since I will end up putting a cushion on it but opted to use the rest of my walnut board making it all walnut so that it would look good with or without a cushion (as the cushion will inevitably be destroyed by my cats)

Anyway, again not much to show other than the piece with the unattached lid on it and a big a pile of walnut shaving from flattening the big panel (I did not take any pictures of my walnut colored snot!)

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I still need to do the ebony plugs for the visible dowel holes, make the t&g bottom, do a little final shaping/dimensioning of the lid/seat , and do some final planing/sanding, but all that should go pretty quickly if I get myself down to the shop and just get it done without futzing around. I ordered a pair of the PB-409s (http://www.horton-brasses.com/store/hinges/brassnickel/precisionbutt) from Horton and just got these lid stays (http://www.leevalley.com/US/hardware/page.aspx?p=41909&cat=3,41419,43745) from LV. Still hoping to have some finish on this thing before the end of next weekend.

[Judson Green]

WOW!

Really good job Chris! I like the contrast of the hickory pegs.

And thank you for not posting walnut snot pictures.

[Brian Holcombe]

Looks great! Now are you going to plane the finish or sand it? Hehehe.

[Chris Griggs]

WOW!

Really good job Chris! I like the contrast of the hickory pegs.

And thank you for not posting walnut snot pictures.

Thanks Judson! I'm actually going to put little square, beveled ebony plugs in where the pegs are. It will still be contrast but more subtle. I was going to put maple or holly pegs in but I wasn't sure it would work aestecally, so I decided to opt for a more subtle dark plug. Because the hickory pegs are hand shaped with planes they aren't perfectly round and don't fill the holes totally and so I think they'll benefit from a plug. They do look kinda nifty in the photo though...makes me think I should reconsider a light wood for plugs and even rethink plugs at all. I'll have take another look and decide.

Alas, I forget to take pictures of the snot...I'll take some this weekend:)

[Chris Griggs]

Looks great! Now are you going to plane the finish or sand it? Hehehe.

Thanks..hehe, well everything is already finished plane so if I can get get the glue spots off with planes then planes it will be. Some parts will be lightly sanded but I'd like the major show surfaces (stretchers, panels and lid) to be planed...all depends on if I CAN get a get fully planed surfaces.

[Brian Holcombe]

Cool, looking forward to seeing the end result.

[Archie England]

super looking job, Chris!!!

now, back to my unfinished toy chest....

[James Conrad]

Hey Chris, been silently following your build, you've done some nice work. Do you plan on doing any shaping on the arm rests?

[Chris Griggs]

Hey Chris, been silently following your build, you've done some nice work. Do you plan on doing any shaping on the arm rests?

Thanks James! I considered it at one point but no, nothing beyond the little curve on the front and gentle curve/taper on the side. Functionally I want something flat on top so drinks and such can be set there and also the rest of the piece is flat faces with curved edges so I felt that any substantial shaping/rounding on the arms would be out of place. I always welcome alternative suggestions though (even if I decide not to take them)

(says the guy who would like to be working on this right now but is busy thawing frozen pipes and hoping to God they don't burst!)

[James Conrad]

I think you are correct if you went crazy with the shaping, it would look out of sort. Perhaps a gentle easing of the front lower edge...

[Chris Griggs]

I think you are correct if you went crazy with the shaping, it would look out of sort. Perhaps a gentle easing of the front lower edge...

I could see that working. It might lighten up the arm rests a bit, which I do think look a hair heavy as they are. The rest are already glued on but I could probably get a little round/ease on the underside using my curved Gramercy handle makers rasp.

Thanks for the suggestion, I'm going to see what I think when I get back to looking at it in the shop.

[Chris Griggs]

Well, I put the finish on the bench last weekend and earlier this week, and after letting it sit in the basement for a few days to air out, I finally brought the bench upstairs yesterday, put it in its home, put it in its home and sapped a few cell phone shots.

I ended up mixing up a basic oil varnish blend (1/3rd Poly, 1/3rd, BLO, 1/3rd MS) which was definitely the right finish for this, but reminded me why I haven't used anything but BLO and/or Shellac for like 2 years....when you have a basement shop varnish really stinks up your whole house! I followed the finish with some steel wool and wax, which always leaves a nice sorta dull sorta sheeny glow that I love.

I'm pleased with the design and proportions, and can really see how the input I got from some of you helped the design. You never really know for sure if a design is going to work until the piece is done, and while I'm sure it could be improved, it looks like how I visualized so I am very satisfied. My mother-in-law is currently working on a cushion for it which I think will be a nice addition.

Thanks for the input and interest in this guys, especially Brian, Judson, and Prashun. It was really helpful and much appreciated.

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[Judson Green]

Very well done Chris! Nicely proportioned. Looks like the kitty's approve.

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks Judson! Yeah, I wasn't even trying to get a kitty shot this time. But its right by their food bowls and also a window, plus kitties like to climb all over any new thing, so the kitty shots were unavoidable.

[Derek Cohen]

That turned out really nice, Chris.

How thick will the cushion be? I imagine something at last 3 - 4".

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Chris Griggs]

That turned out really nice, Chris.

How thick will the cushion be? I imagine something at last 3 - 4".

Regards from Perth

Derek

Thank you Derek! I need to check with my MIL about the foam thickness. She mentioned some different thicknesses to me but I wasn't sure what would be best. There is about 5" between the lid and the bottom of the arms so it could be as thick as about 4" or 5". I had initially pictured a thinner cushion of around 2" but I think she got 3" foam and looking at the bench I think 3" to 4" would be a good size. I'll check with her and post back.

EDIT: Ok, just heard back from MIL. She said I still have the option to use 2", 3", or 4" foam. The padding and cover will add about an inch, so I'm trying to decide whether I want to use 2" for an about 3" cushion or 3" foam for about a 4" cushion. I think 4" foam will make too thick of a cushion. SO to answer Derek's questions. Yes somewhere in the 3" to 4" range.

[Hilton Ralphs]

Very very cool Chris. Well done, this ended up quite marvelous. Nice flooring BTW and I can tell you guys don't eat a lot of meat.

What colour cushions or is it something the boss decided on?

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks Hilton!

Yes, the floors are brand new. We just purchased our first home in August, and it was freshly renovated so it came with these nice dark bamboo floors.

:) I'm guessing you are referring to our jars of beans and lentil on the red shelf....no we don't eat any meat. We do eat a heck of a lot of legumes!

I still supposed to pick out a fabric, but yes it will need to be approved by the boss.

[Hilton Ralphs]

The Vegan books gave you away (if I didn't know already) ;)

[Chris Griggs]

Of course, the cookbooks! We've got some great ones! I didn't notice those in the shot..yeah if you've read my profile you already new that one of my interests is "vegan cooking and eating"...though I'm sure I mentioned it before in posts too. I believe most recently in a conversation about how I spend my Friday nights eating vegan takeout and drinking too much.

[Steve Voigt]

Sweet! Lovely curves, proportions, wood, everything!

[Brian Holcombe]

Gorgeous! Very well done, curious as to what kind of fabric she's going to use?

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks Brian and Steve!

Brian, I'm supposed to pick a fabric...well at least a color or pattern. I don't know what she is going to use. They are coming over next weekend so I guess she'll probably bring some samples.

(and Brian, thanks for convincing me to use floating panel construction...definitely the right choice!)

[Brian Holcombe]

Anytime!

For fabric I like Maharam's Kvadrat line, they have some nice choices.

[Adam Cruea]

Looks wonderful, Mr. Griggs!

Maple or ebony would have looked wonderful with that, but it depends on personality, really. Dang nice looking piece of furniture either way! :)

[Chris Griggs]

Looks wonderful, Mr. Griggs!

Maple or ebony would have looked wonderful with that, but it depends on personality, really. Dang nice looking piece of furniture either way! :)

Thanks Adam!

[Christopher Charles]

Hello Chris,

Thanks for posting the final bench shots--I'd missed those. Glad to hear the varnish/blo/ms mix worked well.

Any progress on the cushion? Looking forward to seeing what you pick for the fabric.

Cheers,
C

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks Chris!

My MIL is working on it. We decided on 3" foam which will yield a 3.5"-4" cushion once padding and fabric is added. I think that will look about right.

I was hoping MIL would just pick a fabric as she has better taste in color and texture than I do, but I think she is waiting for me to send her some pics if something I might like. I'm thinking some type of dark blue...maybe a shade or two lighter than navy, with some type of texture stitched into it.

Even without the the cushion I'm really enjoying this piece of furniture. We previously has a little round breakfast table in that location that we never used (since it was right next to our large dining table) and replacing it with the bench has really opened up the room, given use some extra storage (it holds our huge bag of cat food, among other things) and add some nice extra seating. The cushion will be a nice addition though. I better hurry up and pick some fabric.

[David Weaver]

I totally missed this whole process. It turned out pretty nice!

Nice wide walnut board for the panels, too - immediately tells anyone who looks at it that it's not manufactured furniture made out of panels of narrow boards glued together by some machine.

[Chris Griggs]

I totally missed this whole process. It turned out pretty nice!

Nice wide walnut board for the panels, too - immediately tells anyone who looks at it that it's not manufactured furniture made out of panels of narrow boards glued together by some machine.

Thanks Buddy! Yeah, the boards from the in-laws walnut pile are nice and wide. I think they started off about 10-12" wide on average. I did need to edge glue an additional 4-6" piece to one of my wider boards get the lid to full width. A lot of this grain was pretty swirly so I couldn't get a perfect grain match (you might just barely be able to make out the line near the back in the photo in post #140 that has the cat standing on the bench), but it was a good edge joint so its pretty hard to see even with a less than perfect grain match. Not that it really matters since it'll be covered anyway.

Sadly, I think that's the last of the fairly normal, wide clear walnut boards from the in laws wood pile. There is some walnut left but from what I can tell its mostly in the form of 2 or 3 large slabs. I could mill it up of course into normal boards, but I can't bring myself to do that to those big slabs (eve though I'm not particularly interested in slab furniture)

[Brian Holcombe]

Send a few slabs to NJ :)

For the fabric, one if my favorites is Maharam Kvadrat Hallingdal. It looks kinda tweedy and is made from wool. Most of the big Danish furniture houses use it.

[Christopher Charles]

Mock up some color choices onto your photos and we can help you pick :) Tricky decision for sure.

Cheers,
C

[Chris Griggs]

Send a few slabs to NJ :)

For the fabric, one if my favorites is Maharam Kvadrat Hallingdal. It looks kinda tweedy and is made from wool. Most of the big Danish furniture houses use it.

HAHA. You'll have to arrange that with my inlaws :). I have entertained the idea of asking my inlaws if we can sell them. There's at least one that I think (would need to look closer) could command a decent price, and personally I'd have much more interest in a stack of clear cherry or walnut boards than a walnut slab.

Funny enough I was just looking at that fabric over my lunch today. I was thinking something like around that in a similar shade of color to #764 (http://www.maharam.com/products/hallingdal-by-kvadrat/colors/764), might look nice with the walnut.

[Brian Holcombe]

Lol wishful thinking, I know.

Sorry to be so invasive, but do you have a photo of the room?

[Chris Griggs]

This from the completed pics is all I have available at the moment. But there isn't much else other than what you see there.

280909

Basically, aside from what you see there, there is a large dark cherry dining table (Ethan Allen), and a red wall similar in color to the bookshelf in the background. Was originally going to try and match one of the deep reds but than I would have 3 different reds in the room the sorta match, so I'm just going to go with something that melds well with the dark floors and the walnut in the bench. Dark blue is both elegant (i think) and very neutral which is why I'm thinking that.

[Brian Holcombe]

In blue I would do 756 over 754 a saturated color is going to be tough in a room with many colors.

I would also consider 153, 270 or 916 which would go with walnut, red tones and your wall color.

Room looks nice! When are you building a dining table? Hehe. Your bench would be right at home with a table done like Nakashima's Frenchman's cove II six person size but without the live edges and possibly with a split top. If you have a book matched pair of slabs.

[Chris Griggs]

When are you building a dining table? .

Man, would have loved too...but when your mom gets remarried (and thus has double furniture) and offers to give you her rather expensive solid cherry expandable Ethan Allen dining table its tough to say no. I like the Nakshima you pointed to though...nice not too flashy trestle design. A lot of his stuff I'm not that into but thats a nice design.

I was thinking I'd build some type of trestle table until my mom gave me her table. Plenty of other stuff to build, though.

The dining table btw, looks something like this http://demandware.edgesuite.net/aakh_prd/on/demandware.static/Sites-ethanallen-us-Site/Sites-main/en_US/v1390844017825/images/alt/24-6324_421_DI.jpg

Its definitely one of the nicer store bought pieces I've seen.

[Brian Holcombe]

I know the feeling, our dining table is too nice to replace even though I would prefer to build one.

I have a similar sentiment on nakashima pieces, though his approach is inspirational. That being said some of his designs including the one I posted are some of my favorites.

[Chris Griggs]

A couple people asked me to post some pics one I got the cushion for this. Well, my MIL made a lovely cushion, and it got delivered yesterday so here it is. I was originally asked to pick the fabric/color, but once I started making suggestions my wife and MIL quickly changed there minds about that and decided to pick it themselves (which I was grateful for). They picked out a nice sift fabric in a sorta plumish purply color, and I think they made a great choice.

Just being self critical/reflective...I do feel like the cushion sorta disrupts the lines and proportions of the piece a little, but oh well, that's how you learn. Again, that's just me being self critical design wise...I am very happy with both my work, my MILs lovely work, and with the piece as a whole. It's been really nice to have the extra seat and storage in this area...this bench really ties the room, does it not?

The kitties like it much better with a cushion.

Here are the pics.

284080 284079 284081 284082

[Pat Barry]

The kitties like it much better with a cushion
284082
That cat is just daring you to turn your back so he / she can use one of those nice legs as a scratching post. I can see it in its eyes. Wait, you actually have at least two cats from what I can see judging by the food bowls. Each cat can have its own scratching post. LOL

Very nice project by the way! Nice work.

[Andy Cree]

Beautiful!!!

Andy

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks guys!

Pat....4 Cats, so yes one leg for each! You should see our less than 6 month old sofas!

[Brian Holcombe]

Looks good! If you have some room pull it away from the wall.

Frank LLoyd Wright would specify furniture to be no closer than 18" to the wall, but his houses could accommodate it. In my own circumstance I try to keep furniture no closer than 6" from a wall in tighter rooms, but as much as 18" if I can afford the space.

[Chris Griggs]

Looks good! If you have some room pull it away from the wall.

Frank LLoyd Wright would specify furniture to be no closer than 18" to the wall, but his houses could accommodate it. In my own circumstance I try to keep furniture no closer than 6" from a wall in tighter rooms, but as much as 18" if I can afford the space.

Thanks. Interesting about the wall distance. I'll try that.