Anyone have thoughts on the new LED light bulbs?

[Brian Elfert]

There are a lot of new less expensive LED light bulbs out there now. Does anyone have any first hand reports on any of them like the Cree or the new 3M LED light bulb? The 3M LED bulb has won some awards so I am seriously considering giving them a try even though they are $19 each. I wish I had a way to compare Cree vs 3M as the Cree are substantially less.

I'm looking forward to the day we can get 1600 lumen (100 watt) LED light bulbs for under $10.

[Mike Chance in Iowa]

We have started to switch bulbs to LED. Unfortunately I can't tell you if they are Cree, 3M or another brand as most of them are outside. The one I use at my work table does not have any label on it. When I first switched my work table bulb, I wasn't thrilled with the different look to the lighting, but within an hour or two of using it, I really liked it. I have been using it daily for over 1 year and it's still going strong. We have been very happy with the LED's we have switched out in the barns. It seems like once we install an LED bulb, we can forget about it. I have even dropped an LED bulb on concrete and expected it to break. It's still perfect. The only negative is for those of us who need to keep a light bulb on in the pump house to keep pipes warm.... the LED's don't heat up like that!

[Lee Schierer]

We recently purchased two LED light fixtures that were $30 for the the 10" diameter and $40 for the 14" diameter ceiling light fixture.276260 that are super bright and come on at full brightness within 1 second. We bought the first one to replace an aging 2 tube florescent fixture in our kitchen. Then we went back and bought the smaller one for the mail light at the bottom of the basement stairs so the basement is no longer a dim place to go.

I haven't tried the Cree bulbs yet, but the look interesting.

[Brian Elfert]

We recently purchased two LED light fixtures that were $30 for the the 10" diameter and $40 for the 14" diameter ceiling light fixture.276260 that are super bright and come on at full brightness within 1 second. We bought the first one to replace an aging 2 tube florescent fixture in our kitchen. Then we went back and bought the smaller one for the mail light at the bottom of the basement stairs so the basement is no longer a dim place to go.


Do these fixtures just have a standard LED light bulb in them, or do they use LEDs in a better manner? I have looked at LED fixtures similar to these and they are described as having 1 light bulb in them. If they have a standard LED light bulb why wouldn't I just put an LED light bulb in my existing fixture?

The standard light bulb shape and design is terrible for LED (and CFL too!). LEDs still generate some heat and it hard to dissipate heat down by the light socket. Supposedly there are new LED light fixtures out there that are a total new design that takes advantage of LED better.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I bought a couple bulbs for night/security lights in several of the farm buildings. They work. They are also stupid expensive. I can buy 30+ years of incandescent bulbs for the price of one stinking LED. There is no economic reason to buy them IMHO. I'll be dead long before the leds or compact fluorescents make economical sense at this rate, considering price and economy of energy use. Until there are techniques to enjoy saved money in the afterlife, I'll just pass.

[Larry Frank]

I am using several of the LED 60 watt equivalents and just put a couple in the garage. They work good now and I am waiting to see what happens when the temperature goes down. The CFL bulbs just do not work well in the colder temperatures. They come on very slow and only get to a low light output. When it is less than 10°F thye barely even come on.

I have not been impressed with some of the 100 watt equivalent CFL bulbs as they do not seem to last as long as they should. I had a couple in the basement where they lasted only two years of very light usage. The base of the bulbs seemed to get pretty warm and had a slight brownish color when I took them out.

[Duane Meadows]

I have a couple of GU10 flood 50 watt equivalent(4 watt actual) that I have had in use 24/7 for about a year and a half. The are as good now as when I bought them. They are about $6 apiece from Torchstar. I highly recommend them. I have no connections with the company, just a happy customer. I have 6 more can fixtures to install one of these days, and the LED bulbs to replace them. Also have one in my range hood, waiting for the second to die so I can replace it to match.

The main reason I went with LED is they run cool to the touch as opposed to the halogens which are way to hot to touch. And they are only slightly more expensive than the halogens with as good as or better light. I am waiting for them to come out with a replacement for regular cfl's for reasonable price. I will then be buying a bunch more!:)

[Ole Anderson]

When I did my kitchen remod, I added six 4" ceiling cans and I opted for the Utilitech 50 watt equivalent LEDs with the included trim ring. So I get 300 watts of dimmable light with a total draw of 60 watts. 2700 degree color so they match the incandescent bulbs I have in the fixture over the kitchen table. A bit pricy at $30 each, but they did include the trim ring and I will never have to replace them. And considering the dough I dropped on the rest of the kitchen including all new appliances, the extra to do it right with LEDs was well worth it. I had gotten two CFL candelabra bulbs for my fixture hanging in the stairwell, replacing incandescent bulbs which always wanted to burn out. To change them I needed to get out the extension ladder. The were the worst CFLs I have ever seen, they took at least a full minute to fully light up. I replaced them with LED candelabras and am very happy there too.

[Andrew Joiner]

These are $10 for 800 lumens.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/General-Electric-89885-GE-Energy-Smart-LED-11W-Light-Bulb/29391011 (http://www.walmart.com/ip/General-Electric-89885-GE-Energy-Smart-LED-11W-Light-Bulb/29391011)

Our bathroom has custom indirect lighting. It had flourescent tubes that I replaced often because they're on and off frequently. I went with several incandescents and a few cheap cfls. I dated them all to track the life.

I'm not ready to trust that an LED will last as long as they claim. I have a 2 year old LED lamp that claimed a 15 year life and it has a flicker to it.

I've started hoarding incandescent bulbs. They are the best value for frequent on/off applications. I also use several 40 Watt bulbs for heat platforms to dry glue. Thankfully specialty bulbs like heat lamps will still be legal.

Did you know that 60 and 40 Watt incandescents will be banned in 2014?

[Brian Kerley]

I bought some of the new Cree bulbs at Home Depot.

My wife hates all things LED and CFL. I switched out an incandescent in her favorite lamp with one of the warm white CREE bulbs.

She hasn't said a word.

[David Weaver]

I'm waiting for them to be cheaper. The promise of the LEDs early on was that they would be more efficient, but when you compare lumens to the CFLs, they are making about the same lumens per watt, but at a much higher price.

Once there is something closer to price equity, we will switch to LEDs. So far, we have an LED bulb in the fridge, and everything else is CFL except the oven (which is incandescent for obvious reasons), or tube flourescents in the shop and some in the kitchen.

If there was any energy savings in the LEDs, I would have gotten some of the phillips bulbs that rated well. My wife LOVES to leave the lights on everywhere in the entire house, so CFLs have been a godsend (given that they do well if left on for a long period of time).

My father is one, like mentioned above, who hates everything CFL (I don't know why). He's from the generation of farmers kids that a light isn't turned on unless you need it to read or write, though, so it almost makes no difference what he uses. My mother is the same way.

[Ole Anderson]

One major drawback to any fluorescent bulb is the loss of lumens over time, some loosing as much as 50% of their output at end life. Not so with incandescent or LEDs.

[David Weaver]

LEDs lose output over time. The hotter an LED, the faster the degradation in output, but if each LED is low output, it would be over a very long period of time. There's a push to get LED manufacturers to list the expected time before an LED hits 70% and 50% of original output points.

I haven't noticed any of the CFLs to lose much before they fail, but I may also not be the type who would notice.

[Curt Harms]

I wouldn't think frequent on/off cycles should be a problem with LEDs as it is with fluorescents. LED PWM (pulse width moduled) dimmers work by turning the 'bulb' off many times/second - too fast for the human eye to detect - and I haven't seen anything that says dimmers shorten LED life. I think the LED tapes are excellent for under cabinet lighting. The warm white rolls I got from Amazon are around 3,000K - 3,200K and provide a nice white light to my eye. I find the light good for reading and desk surfaces as well.

[Steve Baumgartner]

We recently put Cree LEDs from the Borg into bugeye cans in our kitchen ceiling. We switched from CFLs because all the CFLs we had tried got too hot and failed too soon - typically about 1 year life. It may say as much about the previous CFLs as about the LEDs, but these stay cool enough that you can comfortably put your hand next to them (next to the CFLs was painfully hot). We like the instant on instead of the slow warm up of the CFLs. Only time will tell whether the lifetime estimates bear out.

[Dave Kirby]

Cree bulbs are awesome. I've used them in tactical flashlights for years, they are super bright and dependable. They'd get my vote!

[Lee Schierer]

Do these fixtures just have a standard LED light bulb in them, or do they use LEDs in a better manner? I have looked at LED fixtures similar to these and they are described as having 1 light bulb in them. If they have a standard LED light bulb why wouldn't I just put an LED light bulb in my existing fixture?

These fixtures have an array of LED's mounted on the back panel with a small electronics package in the center of the fixture.

[Jim Koepke]

Just replaced some florescent fixtures in the shop.

Hopefully next time the LEDs will have a better price point.

We have bought a lot of incandescent bulbs on sale just for use as the pump house heater in the winter.

As the CFLs and others in the house need replacing I am thinking of using LEDs. Used one in "the wife's" bathroom and it seems great.

Having lots of lumens at low wattage sounds great to me.

jtk

[Brian Elfert]

The primary reason I am looking at LED bulbs is because I have several fixtures where CFL light bulbs fail prematurely. I had some can type fixtures and GE CFLs would be lucky if they lasted 6 months. I replaced those light fixtures with a different design, but the Philips CFLs I installed only lasted a year. My bathroom light fixture is another poor design, but at least the CFLs last a few years there.

Sure, I could send the light bulbs back under warranty, but since I paid $1 to $2 each with subsidies so it just isn't worth the postage or hassle to return them for replacement.

[Robert LaPlaca]

I have 10 60 watt equivalent Cree A19 bulbs, they are the warm/soft white bulbs. The color is pretty good (Kelvin 2700k). I have five of the bulbs in one fixture that uses a Lutron electronic dimmer, the bulbs tolerate dimming really well, they are dimmed at 60% all the time and have successfully dimmed them temporally to 10%.

Three of the bulbs are operated via home automation (Insteon), the bulbs don't seem to generate line noise like many CFL's do, so far I am happy with the Cree's..

[Erik Loza]

I have been gradually switching out our CFL's for LED's a few at a time. Have been buying these Feit PAR30's at Costco....

276326

http://www.costco.com/Feit-Electric-Dimmable-15W-PAR30-LED-Reflector-Light-Bulbs-4-pack.product.100028841.html

...the link indicates a 4-pack but my local Costco sells them individually for about $18 each. I have been super happy with them so far. A huge improvement over the CFL's in terms of brightness.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Brian Elfert]

I stopped at Home Depot today and bought a "60 watt" Cree LED light bulb. It produces very nice light and the color seems to match regular bulbs. The problem is the light is only produced around the sides and there is a dead spot at the top with no light. This works fine in a lamp, but not so well in the fixture I put it in. There is also the issue of not producing enough light, especially compared to the "100 watt" CFLs I have been using.

I was thinking about getting a 3M LED bulb to try, but after seeing that the "60 watt" LEDs don't produce enough light I might just stick with CFLs a bit longer. "100 watt" LED light bulbs are starting to hit the market, but not cheap. Maybe in another year or two LED will finally be viable to replace regular light bulbs.

[Erik Loza]

So, I bit the bullet and bought one of these yesterday...

276536

http://www.switchlightingco.com/lightbulbs.shtml

NOT inexpensive (about $40 with the instant rebate...) but these are the only LED's I have found that have a true 360-degree output. They are basically a clear bulb with an array of LED's inside and the whole deal is filled with a clear fuid. The mfr. states that this aids in cooling and that these things have a lifetime warranty. I purchased one because we have a particular art-deco style light fixture in the house that needs a bare filament-type bulb to look good. Installed this bult and the thing looks dynamite. It will be probably impossible for me to justify buying more of them, at least unless the price comes down, but based on the unique effect this bulb gives, it was worth the cost for my application.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Rod Sheridan]

IKEA has a great selection of LED lamps in many different styles, at reasonable prices...........Rod.

[Bill ThompsonNM]

I stopped at Home Depot today and bought a "60 watt" Cree LED light bulb. It produces very nice light and the color seems to match regular bulbs. The problem is the light is only produced around the sides and there is a dead spot at the top with no light. This works fine in a lamp, but not so well in the fixture I put it in. There is also the issue of not producing enough light, especially compared to the "100 watt" CFLs I have been using. I was thinking about getting a 3M LED bulb to try, but after seeing that the "60 watt" LEDs don't produce enough light I might just stick with CFLs a bit longer. "100 watt" LED light bulbs are starting to hit the market, but not cheap. Maybe in another year or two LED will finally be viable to replace regular light bulbs.
Of course, not surprised it doesn't produce as much light as the 100 watt CFL's it is only rated as the same lumens as a 60 watt. I bought one to replace a 60 watt bulb in a 3 bulb lamp, you can't tell whether the led or a normal incandescent is on. It really appears to be 60 watts. Since it's one we leave on a lot-- it will save a bunch.

[Brian Elfert]

Of course, not surprised it doesn't produce as much light as the 100 watt CFL's it is only rated as the same lumens as a 60 watt. I bought one to replace a 60 watt bulb in a 3 bulb lamp, you can't tell whether the led or a normal incandescent is on. It really appears to be 60 watts. Since it's one we leave on a lot-- it will save a bunch.

The light fixtures I am currently trying to find bulbs for are only rated for 60 watt regular bulbs. The reason I went with 100 watt CFLs is because the 60 watt CFLs didn't seem as bright as regular 60 watt bulbs. Some have reported that the 60 watt LED bulbs are very bright. I think half the problem is the way the light is distributed from the LED bulbs I bought.

I was over at Menards last night to look at the 3M LED bulb. The 3M LED bulb has won several design awards, but they had one running and I was not impressed. It was far brighter in just one band and light was not even across the entire bulb. I was more impressed by the FEIT bulb that seemed to distribute light every bit as well as a regular bulb. I think I'm going to wait until the FEIT 75 watt LED comes down in price a bit and then buy.

[Paul Wunder]

We replaced 9 par30 75 watt halogen floods in our kitchen with the equivalent LED captive brand from Home Depot. After a short period of adjustment both my wife and I are pleased with the brightness and color temperature. I paid about $23/bulb. at the electric rates in the northeast ($.20/kw), payback will be less than a year based upon our usage. Will the new bulbs last the promised 10 years? Who knows?

BTW, with the halogens burning all the time in the kitchen we had difficulty keeping the kitchen at a comfortable a/c temperature in the summer. This situation is much improved with the LED's. So we are experiencing additional savings.

[Erik Loza]

Here is a photo of our light fixture with the "Switch" brand 360-degree LED bulb inside. Only bulb I have found which duplicates the look of bare incandescent...

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i315/erikloza/Smilies/photo_zps2ca44f77.jpg

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Brian Elfert]

I saw at Home Depot this weekend a bunch of old style vintage bulbs if anyone needs this type of bulb in the future.

[Ole Anderson]

LEDs lose output over time. The hotter an LED, the faster the degradation in output, but if each LED is low output, it would be over a very long period of time. There's a push to get LED manufacturers to list the expected time before an LED hits 70% and 50% of original output points.

Consumers Reports mag came yesterday and they had a review of LED bulbs. Here is a quote after running two Cree CR6 LED down lights for 3 years 24/7 and 25,000 hours: "And they are just as bright as when we took them out of the box and tested them." I know all LEDs aren't created equal, but at least these didn't degrade in output after 25,000 hours, and yes, they did last the claimed 25,000 hours.

[Dan Hintz]

Consumers Reports mag came yesterday and they had a review of LED bulbs. Here is a quote after running two Cree CR6 LED down lights for 3 years 24/7 and 25,000 hours: "And they are just as bright as when we took them out of the box and tested them." I know all LEDs aren't created equal, but at least these didn't degrade in output after 25,000 hours, and yes, they did last the claimed 25,000 hours.

Did CR specify how they ran their test? From that quote, it sounds like they just looked at it and took a guess. LEDs, by their very nature, lose brightness over time due to breakdown of their structure... it's not a question of company 'A' making a better one, it's the simple physics of how they're currently designed. they will decrease in brightness over time... generally, it's a drop to 70% of their original lumen output, the 50k/70k/100k hours you typically see posted for LED lifetime. CR's claim that the bulbs are just as bright after 25k hours tells me one of two things: 1) They didn't test it scientifically, or 2) the bulb is managing its output and started at less than 100% so it can keep a constant brightness over the expected lifetime of the bulb (this is done in expensive lighting systems, but typically not in a cheap bulb).

[David Weaver]

Consumers Reports mag came yesterday and they had a review of LED bulbs. Here is a quote after running two Cree CR6 LED down lights for 3 years 24/7 and 25,000 hours: "And they are just as bright as when we took them out of the box and tested them." I know all LEDs aren't created equal, but at least these didn't degrade in output after 25,000 hours, and yes, they did last the claimed 25,000 hours.

I'm inclined to agree with Dan, BUT if CR put them in a down fixture where they never built up any heat and they're never exposed to much, maybe the subjective or not very scientific testing they used didn't notice anything.

I'm in need of a bulb for a hanging fixture over the dinner table, and almost bought the cree just on the good commentary for it (my wife wants special CFLs that have a mock globe around them), but the place where I need the lighting the most is straight down and it sounds like the cree has a dead spot straight down..

Maybe Dan is on the mark with commentary about restricting initial lumens. I'd imagine they'd want that initial number to be as high as possible, though, for lumens per watt bragging rights - we are just now finally at the point of having an inexpensive bulb that's just a shave better than a CFL for lumens.

[Brian Elfert]

I didn't think Cree had been making A19 style LED bulbs for three years, but I am probably wrong. If CR tested an LED bulb from three years ago that is like a lifetime in LED light bulb technology. Most LED light bulbs of today are greatly improved over LED lights bulbs from three years ago.

[Brian Elfert]

We recently purchased two LED light fixtures that were $30 for the the 10" diameter and $40 for the 14" diameter ceiling light fixture.276260 that are super bright and come on at full brightness within 1 second. We bought the first one to replace an aging 2 tube florescent fixture in our kitchen. Then we went back and bought the smaller one for the mail light at the bottom of the basement stairs so the basement is no longer a dim place to go.


Where did you buy these at? I have been looking a little bit and not finding a whole lot for LED light fixtures except some designed for closets, utility rooms, and the like. I amy not buy any for my current house, but I am looking at building a new house and LED fixtures would be nice.

[Steve Peterson]

I have several circuits in my house with lights in ceiling cans. The circuits with 4 lights on one dimmer will all flicker with 4 LED bulbs, but do just fine with 3 LEDs and one regular bulb.

Steve

[Curt Harms]

I have several circuits in my house with lights in ceiling cans. The circuits with 4 lights on one dimmer will all flicker with 4 LED bulbs, but do just fine with 3 LEDs and one regular bulb.

Steve

Steve, is this with a 'normal' dimmer for incandescent lamps? I always thought LEDs required a dimmer rated for LEDs.

[Ole Anderson]

I'm inclined to agree with Dan, BUT if CR put them in a down fixture where they never built up any heat and they're never exposed to much, maybe the subjective or not very scientific testing they used didn't notice anything. Please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't putting LED's in a can (a downlight over the sink) where the heat has no where to go as it rises, is likely to be a more difficult environment than, say, in an open fixture? And not defending CR as I don't know the facts, but they are a lab, I can't imagine that they didn't pull their light meter out of their pocket and do a comparative measurement, although the way they worded their comment certainly leaves some doubt. And IIRC when CR did long term testing of CFL's, they noted a significant drop in output over time.

[Anthony Whitesell]

One major drawback to any fluorescent bulb is the loss of lumens over time, some loosing as much as 50% of their output at end life. Not so with incandescent or LEDs.

I have been performing some informal testing on live expectancy. I purchased a 75W equivalent in each brand that Wal-mart carried. As I install them I write the date on them. I have yet to replace a bulb that has lasted two years. The 'brown out' of the CFL is as annoying as heck, especially on a dark winter morning. It does appear to be brand independent. It would take an actual meter and weekly readings to know when they reach 'annoying' before they actually die. I may just switch bite the bullet and switch to an LED for the 'morning' lights that I want to come on bright right away.

[David Weaver]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't putting LED's in a can (a downlight over the sink) where the heat has no where to go as it rises, is likely to be a more difficult environment than, say, in an open fixture? And not defending CR as I don't know the facts, but they are a lab, I can't imagine that they didn't pull their light meter out of their pocket and do a comparative measurement, although the way they worded their comment certainly leaves some doubt. And IIRC when CR did long term testing of CFL's, they noted a significant drop in output over time.

I wouild think so, anything warmer should make them lose intensity faster. I haven't seen the CR report, though, and don't know if what they did to mount them actually retained heat. Their comment about not losing light over 25000 hours seems to be in conflict with most LEDs. Maybe it's in the circumstances. The idea that they lose intensity doesn't keep me from wanting to buy them, though, I'm just curious. If my CFLs are lasting a lot longer than their ratings (possibly because they're outside), then the LEDs should last a long time in my outdoor fixtures, too.

[Steve Peterson]

Steve, is this with a 'normal' dimmer for incandescent lamps? I always thought LEDs required a dimmer rated for LEDs.

They are connected to different types of normal dimmers. All have the same characteristic of working perfectly with 3 LEDs and flickering with 4 LEDs. The LEDs were labeled as dimmable using normal dimmers. As far as I can tell, the only thing that distinguishes an LED dimmer from a normal dimmer is that they have different characteristics at the low end of the range. LEDs do not appear to dim well in the 0-5% brightness level and instead jump straight from 0% to ~10% brightness. Incandescent bulbs are dimmable all the way down to 0%.

The living room lights are on a Lutron Maestro IR dimmer. I really like being able to dim the lights using a universal remote control. I will live with the limitation of only having 3 bulbs rather than having to get up to change the light setting.

Steve

[Brian Elfert]

I have been performing some informal testing on live expectancy. I purchased a 75W equivalent in each brand that Wal-mart carried. As I install them I write the date on them. I have yet to replace a bulb that has lasted two years. The 'brown out' of the CFL is as annoying as heck, especially on a dark winter morning. It does appear to be brand independent. It would take an actual meter and weekly readings to know when they reach 'annoying' before they actually die. I may just switch bite the bullet and switch to an LED for the 'morning' lights that I want to come on bright right away.

I have a combination of GE and Philips CFL bulbs in my house. The GE CFL bulbs are almost instant on while the Philips are really slow and take 60 seconds or more to come to full brightness. The GE CFL bulbs in my bathroom lasted four to five years before two burned out, but the same GE bulbs in the can style fixtures on my ceiling fans lasted less than six months even with no use of the fan.

I'm looking forward to LEDs that can replace my CFLs and just be done with CFLs.

[Dan Hintz]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't putting LED's in a can (a downlight over the sink) where the heat has no where to go as it rises, is likely to be a more difficult environment than, say, in an open fixture?

Correct. I'm moving more and more of our fixtures to cans as I remodel, which has me holding off longer and longer on switching to LED bulbs. "Perfect" environment for an LED bulb is in a chandelier... bulb pointed downwards with the heatsink at the top and unobstructed at the top from flowing air. Even better a thin can surrounding the heatsink, not touching but 1/2" or so away, and open at the top... makes for a nice self-cooling action with the heated air sucking in cool air at the bottom.






To the comments about dimming... the typical triac-based dimmer does not like working at low voltages (heavily dimmed) as the triac can't stay locked. Ideally, you want an LED-specific dimmer, but using a bulb designed for normal dimmers is second best.

[Jim Koepke]

To the comments about dimming... the typical triac-based dimmer does not like working at low voltages (heavily dimmed) as the triac can't stay locked. Ideally, you want an LED-specific dimmer, but using a bulb designed for normal dimmers is second best.

A friend of mine explained to me the way to make this work is to have at least 4 LED units on the circuit. He has chandeliers and multiple lamp units in his kitchen.

jtk