Tablesaw-less workshop

[Prashun Patel]

I am seriously considering getting rid of my tablesaw. I have come to love my bandsaw, router table, or hand tools for just about everything the tablesaw does.

Selling my tablesaw would free up some space (and $$) in my small shop for a cyclone dc, jointer/planer combo, and a drum sander.

I have already considered how I would do most operations on alternate tools. I would like to hear from those who (a) think this is a mistake, or (b) who have already made the switch; how do you like it?

[Richard Coers]

It would cripple my work to remove the table saw. For you? I have no idea how you work or what you make. Ever try to rip another .010" off the side of a board on a bandsaw? Cross cut plywood on the bandsaw? It's been discussed many times, mostly by the tracksaw guys, but you'll never convince me.

[mike holden]

"Ever try to rip another .010" off the side of a board on a bandsaw?" This is an operation that is properly done with a handplane. It is what a handplane is designed to do. So this is a non-issue.
While I have a tablesaw, I rarely use it, it frightens me. So I am pretty much a tablesawless shop. I do have a bandsaw, router table (FWIW, I prefer the router table to a hand-held), jointer, planer, drill press, sanders - belt, spindle, and grinders. I have a full collection of handtools that are usually my preferred tools.
I could easily get by without a tablesaw, but then I build primarily 18th century style furniture. If I were using sheet goods for cabinetry, then a tablesaw would be more useful.
It really comes down to what you make and how you work.
My suggestion is to ignore the tablesaw for the next three projects and see if you miss it, then go from there.
Mike

[Brian LaShomb]

I don't use a tablesaw in my shop, but I have a small hand tool focused shop. Power tools are limited to bandsaw, lathe and jointer/planer combo. I don't use sheet goods though. I do have a cheap Craftsman table saw in the garage, that is used only for sheet goods, jig/shelf/rough work etc.

[Cary Falk]

The table saw would be the last tool to go. I have a tracksaw and it is not a replacement by a long shot. I use the tablesaw on every project.

[Alan Lightstone]

Prashun, I can't imagine working without one. If I had something like an MM20 or M24 or even larger, I might give it more consideration, but, as much space as mine takes up, and as much time I'm now putting in to rebuilding my outfeed table, I still can't imagine working without one. And I do have a track saw and use it all the time for sheet goods, so I have that ability.

Still, the quality of the table saw cuts always wins.

I built substantial cabinets into the base of the table saw / router table, and that helped with the space issue. Still takes up floor space, but lots of stuff can be stored inside.

[Bill Huber]

I am in the keep it camp, I don't know what I would do without my table saw. Like Mike state it depends a lot on what you make, I like to make a little bit of everything and use the table saw on just about every project I do.

I know I can rip on the band saw but I have never been able to get as good of a cut on the band saw as I do with my GLR blade on the table saw. I also don't know how I would crosscut a board 48" long on the band saw.

I don't use a lot of sheet goods but I do use a lot of MDF for templates and I would have a real problem cutting them out on a band saw.

There are many ways to do the same thing in woodworking, Mike said use a hand-plane, if I did that at this time in woodworking all I would do is screw up the board.

I am not afraid of the table saw but I do respect it a whole lot.

[Mike Goetzke]

I'm a serious hobbyist and been woodworking for close to 40 years now (since I was a teen). I finished a huge home remodeling project that included building kitchen cabinets and a huge island. I used my tracksaw system for about 90% of the cuts. Did mostly long rips, dados, & rabbets on the TS. So for this reason, space considerations, & probably being burned out from the big project I sold my 5-year old Unisaw (52" Biese fence - making the assembly almost 80" long). After a few months I decided I needed a smaller TS so purchased one of the benchtop saws on a folding wheeled stand. It works OK but not being able to use all the full size cabinet saw accessories and less room between the blade and front of table are issues. Just this past weekend a found an old Uni and plan to restore it and keep it simple this time and not have a huge wing/fence to the right since I have a tracksaw system for ply. So guess for me I tried to go w/o the TS but just didn't feel comfortable not having one.

Mike

[HANK METZ]

Mike's suggestion to pretend you don't have a tablesaw for the next few projects is as sound advice as you can get. When I made a choice between keeping either my radial arm or tablesaw, the t.s. went and I've never looked back. Changing your approach to how you process your work helps, and one of my factors for unloading the t.s. was that although it is great for sheet goods, when I need that material the home center is happy to make precuts for me, and the Radial makes the refined dimensions I want. If necessary, it can do anything the t.s. did, in only 20% of the floor space formerly occupied by the t.s., and having done this for several years now, I have never found an occasion to regret my Spartan tool choice.

[Craig Richmond]

What about setting up a work table/station with a small section of the top missing in the middle or somewhere that would allow you to use a track saw? You could still cut large plywood and the rest of the time it could used for other things. Has anyone doe this, is it a good idea?

[Prashun Patel]

Thanks for all the comments so far.
I realize this is a personal decision, but these comments are helping inform my decision.
I do agree that crosscutting panels is something I'll miss.

[Rich Riddle]

Didn't I read where Keith or one of the moderators recently went to a tablesawless shop? I read someone picked up a new Felder band saw.

Found it: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?207010-New-Felder-FB-610-Band-Saw

[Keith Outten]

I am currently transitioning to a shop without a table saw. I have piled all kinds of stuff on my table saw and it hasn't been used for several months now. I did upgrade to a 22" band saw and I own an old panel saw I use to break down sheet goods so the table saw won't be missed when its gone. There was a time when I would never have considered a shop without a table saw but things can change.

I have a track saw but it hasn't been used in several years, doesn't take up any space either so I will keep it just in case.

Rich, I was the one who recently purchased the Felder band saw. Here is the link to the thread I started on my new band saw slider:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?210739-Shop-Made-Band-Saw-Slider-with-Pic

[glenn bradley]

There is no requirement for a tablesaw in a shop any more than there is a requirement for a block plane. Many folks work without a tablesaw. I use it on every project but, I use it a lot of different ways and find it nearly as versatile as a router. As to removing .010" accurately with a hand plane, that is a level of skill. If you have never used a tablesaw that can leave a glass smooth edge while accurately taking off .010" then you are likely to miss your tablesaw less ;).

Gary Rogowski had an article years ago on the top tools for a shop and the tablesaw was way down the list. When I am making Maloof-esque joinery type pieces, the tablesaw only serves to breakdown material and do dado's and dovetails. These could be done another way. I love my bandsaws and could not do without them. If I had to give up one or the other due to catastrophic events, I would lose the tablesaw first because I could accomplish those tasks that it does so elegantly, some other way . . . . . eventually.

[Richard Coers]

"Ever try to rip another .010" off the side of a board on a bandsaw?" This is an operation that is properly done with a handplane. It is what a handplane is designed to do. So this is a non-issue.

Mike

Do that on a couple pieces of 8' long, 8/4 figured hard maple, and you can still think it's a non issue? Sawing would take 1 minute of less. In fact the table saw cuts would be finished before I would even get the boards to the vise and get out the hand plane. Hand plane for 10 minutes since you have to reverse some directions and scrape a couple of areas because of tear out. It would be an issue for me.

[Lee Mims]

I break down my large sheet goods with my track saw. I cross cut with my sliding mitre saw. I cross cut things larger than the arm of the mite with my track saw. I use routers a lot for Dadoes and rabbets, and find that I only minimally use my table saw.

However, when I need it, there's just some times it's the best tool for the job. I take off the rip fence and lower the blade and use it + my outfeed table as an assembly table. It's pretty useful then too.

My thoughts on getting my track saw, and how much I use any tool is this:

What's the easiest and safest way to make this cut. I take time out of the mix, because track saws are great, but more time consuming to setup. There are a lot of times when I think I could just push it through the table saw, but it's kinda heavy, so I opt for track saw. There's a bunch of times where I need repeated cuts, so I opt for crosscut sled on tablesaw with a stop block vs mitre saw (although stop block on mitre works well too).

Unfortunately, we all work differently. I take the path of least resistance given the tools I have, and it's hard to give up a tool that I already have, even in the interest of space. And space is a concern, as I am in 1.5 bays of a 2 car garage. I've found ways around that though. For example:

1. I'm using my ceiling to hold boards, paint booths, lighting, power / air reels / clamps.
2. I'm using wheels on all my gear to move around as needed.
3. I constantly will tear down an rebuild a cabinet / work bench to improve it.
4. FRENCH CLEATS. I install em everwhere, sides of workbenches, walls, carts that roll around...etc.

I love camping in travel trailers and am so impressed how they can fit so much in such an efficient space. I'm sorta obsessed with it. Must mostly, I work on computers for a living and need my fingers. So I choose slower, more reliably safe methods to make my cuts, which normally involves time consuming setups or a large variety of saws. I'm not doing this for a living, so my time is less valuable than my health.

With that said tho, if you're not comfortable with the TS, or you don't want to lose the space, I certainly understand. You gotta go with what works for you, not the rest of these guys, cause we all do it different ;)

[Brian Kincaid]

I dumped the table saw years ago. I use a track saw, albeit a hot-rodded one with a table saw fence, 90degree fence, and a 'bridge' to hold it all square. It is also a panel router, and many other things. I am super-happy with my decision.

-Brian

[Joe Hillmann]

How much cash would you free up by selling your table saw? Would you get enough to pay for one of the other tools you want or only $50. I as because how much you can sell it for may change your idea of if you want to keep it or sell it.

You say space is an issue. Could you set up the saw on wheels so you can push it out of the way when not in use or build a removable top so you can use it as a work bench when you don't need it as a saw?

For the work I do, the table saw is that makes me the most money. You build different things than I do so your tool requirements are different.

And one last thing. If you sell the saw, realize it was a mistake will you be able to buy a similar quality used saw for a similar price or will you have to spend a lot more to have a table saw again?

[Jason King]

I'm tablesaw-less, and I haven't missed it. That said, I don't typically work with sheet goods. My 20" bandsaw makes most of the cuts I need, and for the rare cut it can't handle I've got a handsaw for that.

I'll second (or third) the earlier suggestion that you take the next couple projects and ignore your table saw. Take the test drive, so to speak.

[jack forsberg]

I would have to get rid of 3 table saws. but it would leave me 4 band saws. Still cant see a shop with out a table saw What you going to use to make jig to cut straight on the band saw with?

[Lee Reep]

Yeah, what Lee Mims said... :)

I've recently rethought the way I do woodworking, so I understand the thought of doing away with a particular tool, or method.

I did woodworking for 25+ years without a table saw, but I grew up in the heyday of radial arm saws. It was the first major power tool I bought in 1975. It still is my "go to" tool for crosscutting, and can handle roughly a 17" crosscut. I use a compound miter saw for mitered cuts. A RAS can be used for ripping, but not the greatest tool for the job. I got a table saw about 6-7 years ago, but it has always been my ripping saw, and never really used for crosscutting. It has a sliding miter table, and I've used that a little for some complex cuts. The issue for me lately was easily/effectively breaking down sheet goods. My contractor-style table saw was just not big enough, and I thought I needed to upgrade to a big cabinet saw. But space in my shop is limited, so I'd need to continue to move tools around to have room for infeeding and outfeeding a large sheet of plywood.

After watching some YouTube videos on how people were using track saws, I bought a Festool track saw last month. Amazing cuts with zero tearout due to the splinterguards on the rail, and on the saw. Will it mean I sell off my table saw? No. But I do not see a large cabinet saw in my future. In fact, getting the track saw might mean moving the RAS out of the shop, and using the track saw for large crosscuts. I am considering getting the Festool Kapex miter saw for trim work. I have a small shop so moving out my RAS (with large custom top) would save a lot of space. But I could not part with it, I would just put it out in the garage. (My shop is in the basement.)

I decided to build my own track saw table. The Festool MFT workbench is small, and designed for mobility. I wanted large, and stationary is fine. The top was machined on a ShopBot CNC router which I have access to. It is similar to the MFT top -- 20mm holes on a precise grid. Festool uses 96mm spacing, I did 20mm holes to take advantage of all the 20mm bench dogs and clamps. But I used 4" hole spacing (close to 96mm), since this spacing fit the table design evenly, and hole spacing is not critical. What is critical is exact hole spacing in the rows and columns to provide true 90 and 45 degree alignment when using bench dogs.

Here is my table - -measures 36" X 84". It is also the outfeed table for my table saw, and I'm building a planer cart that will outfeed to this workbench.

276241

[Jerry Olexa]

To me, the TS is the most vital tool in the shop ...Most effort and projects are centered around it..For accuracy, it would be hard to work without one..I recently made some mouldings for a cherry project and used the TS to trim off excess..Would be difficult without..Just my opinion. "one man's meat is another man's poison"...

[Rick Potter]

Hey Brian,

I would sure like to see some pics of your track saw setup, especially the bridge and fence.

Rick Potter

[Erik Christensen]

I have both a table saw & track saw and would sell my 19" bandsaw before either of them. The track saw is great for breaking down panels, putting a taper or straight edge on a board, cutting to a non-square line but to try and make it as accurate as a table saw takes a lot of time. So here is how I process sheet goods - back up truck to cutting table, rough cut 1" over size with track saw which usually gives you at least 2 perfect edges, take to MFT table put one clean edge against back rail & trim end to a perfect 90. Now I have a rough sized panel with 2 good edges at an exact 90 to each other. Then it's time for the table saw to do its thing - make 2 opposing sides absolutely parallel - so I cut the final 2 sides to finished dimension.

to me a table saw excels at rip cuts - I can't imagine ripping a couple hundred feet of rails/styles with a tracksaw or bandsaw. but it really gets down to - your need for the tool depends on what you make - I do a lot of cabinets - so rails/styles, drawer parts, panels, case parts all go through the table saw at one time or another. volume production with less than furnature grade quality is what I am doing these days & the table saw gets used constantly.

[Lee Mims]

First off, us Lee's gotta stick together. Secondly, that table is nice! I think I'm gonna build that soon. I also agree with the synergy (outfeed table for multiple tools, assembly, bench dogging...) you have going on. And I am currently trying to sell my MFT/3 table because it is very useful as a mobile bench, but much less so in the shop as a permanent fixture.

OP, let us know how you get along without a table saw, there are a bunch of good responses here and it appears you're not alone :)

[mreza Salav]

I have a good track saw, two bandsaws (a 24" one) and other machines but table saw is still one of the most important pieces in my shop.
Every machine has its use and I can't complete a project as fast or as accurate without a table saw.
I suggest keep your saw somewhere (in a storage) and see how often you feel you need it or if you can get by (as easily) without it. Then you can judge if you are fine letting it go.
For certain jobs I think there is nothing as fast and accurate as a table saw (e.g. a couple of nights ago I had to rip 200+ pieces each about 2-3' and 1.5" wide, no way I could do them as fast on a bandsaw and get as accurate/clean cut as on table saw).

[Doug Herzberg]

Prashun, it's clearly a matter of personal preference. I'm one of those who can't imagine a shop without a table saw. It's the first tool I think of when I'm trying to figure out how to do something. My bandsaws are set up for other tasks (green bowl blanks) and I hate changing blades on them before I have to. I'm in the pretend you don't have one for a few months crowd. Maybe put it in storage and see what you can do with the space.

I would try to put the DC outside, if that is feasible, both for noise reduction and to get the dust out of your breathing space.

[Jim Matthews]

How many square feet of space will this free?

Is the TS in the way of more frequent operations?

Can you keep a small pad of paper on it, to record each use - and the operation performed?

I worked in a trauma center, years ago and maybe suffering from bias,
but the bandsaw and circular saw easily handle my sheet goods, when needed.

[Phil Thien]

Prashun, it wasn't long ago that you ordered a ton of plywood for a (I think) kitchen project. I can't imagine cranking out cabinets on a bandsaw. Maybe that was a one-time project? Or you think the bandsaw would allow you to accomplish the same project? I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.

[John Coloccia]

I dumped my table saw. I do miss it sometimes, but not enough to actually buy another table saw, so I guess I did the right thing. If I had more room, I would have the table saw, but once I became cramped, it was the first thing to go.

I have two bandsaws....a large one with a Resaw King in it, and a smaller one for non-straight cuts or cuts in thinner material.

[Kelly Klaas]

I have many tools in my shop that I don't use for several months at a time...but when I need it nothing else will do the job and I'm glad I have it. My table saw is no exception. Since I got my 12" miter saw I don't use my table saw nearly as much but there are some things I can't do with the miter saw and only the table saw will work. The only time I get rid of a tool is when I get a bigger and better one to replace it. But then, that's just me. You do what you think is best for what you do.

Kelly Klaas
Twin Falls, ID.

[Clay Fails]

The table saw would be the last tool to go. I have a tracksaw and it is not a replacement by a long shot. I use the tablesaw on every project.

I agree completely. Of course there are always alternative ways to make every cut, but the tablesaw is just so versatile and easy to set up. For those who say it's a scary tool, yes it can be, but i would suggest reconsidering your techniques. There is always a safe way to make the cut. If it doesnt feel right, dont try it.

[Sam Murdoch]

I vote with the suggestion to set the TS aside through the next few projects. That will be most revealing. I have written frequently in the past months that the bandsaw along with a track saw and a jointer have set me free from the need for a TS. Still I haven't gone more than 2 projects without using the TS. Try it for yourself - and be disciplined - don't use the TS no matter what - but if you must you will have your answer.

[Mac McQuinn]

Only you can answer that question. Your ability to adapt to using different tools to achieve the same results as a TS will come into play here. While you may presently feel the TS is perfect for a specific task, once you have to use another tool to get the job done, you''ll find new ways & gain new skills to achieve excellent results.
Mac

[Brian W Smith]

4 TS's here(a 14/16,2-10's and an 8).The only one that dosen't see daily use is the 8" C-man travel saw,which is an absolute little gem.

Personally,I think the basic design has to rank as one of the most ignorant pcs of equipment ever dreamed up.It's like looking down the wrong end of a gun brrl?Another huge problem is it's "just another" flat surface for folks to come along and set their "stuff" on.And have some theory's on this subject(think islands in kitchen design).

If I was setting up shop again,would get a big panel saw(vert),a 14/16,and a nice small slider and be done with it.You'll just have to see if your shop profile can make money without one?But look at some of the nicer vert panel saws........they really are improving,a lot.

[Bobby O'Neal]

Prashun, based on the work you've shared with us here, I would be surprised if you couldn't get on very well without a table saw. I'm sure there are projects you build that we don't see but based on the pieces I have seen, you mostly use hardwood stock and not plywood and most boards we buy are in range of reasonable bandsaw ripping capacity. You seem to be handy with your hand tools as well and they, coupled with routers, can perform nearly all the joinery options needed. Plywood for shop projects or cabinets might be the time you'd miss it some but track saws are great these days (so I'm told) and if its a once in a long while set up, a circular saw is fine.

I lean towards hand tools for precision and power tools for rough efficiency. My table saw is not the caliber that I would ever call a cut from it "done." It will always get hit with something else, likely a plane. I'm not ready to ditch it because I have very few tools and space isn't cramped yet but I think I'd trade it for a good bandsaw if I could only pick one.

[David Weaver]

I dumped the TS a long time ago. It has taken not very long for me to do the things that are repetitive quickly with the bandsaw, like ripping rail stock for cabinets. I know about how much removing the bandsaw marks will take with a plane and cut my rails fat by that amount, and then have a finished edge that I would've planed, anyway had it come off of the TS.

I did buy a portable TS for temporary use to build kitchen cabinets, but found that I'm no more accurate with it than I am with the bandsaw and a follow-up plane (actually a bit less so - it's unusual for my bandsawn rails to vary in width more than a couple of thousandths after planing off the saw marks.)

[Matt Kestenbaum]

I think the answer entirely depends on what type of work you do. If you are working in lots of sheet goods making cabinet carcasses, i'd say not a good move. But, from a lot of you posts it looks like you are working in lots of live edge slabs, chairs, benches and other work that is less dependent on flat, square and parallel as a starting point before joinery. My experience with slabs is that a jig saw, band saw, router, jigs and hand tools take the place of jointer/planer/TS…a plunge/track saw would be a great add too. Not much call for a table saw when making spindles, rockers, or carved seats either. I think Sam Maloof swore by his Aggi. But, if you like or need to do all kinds of woodworking…a table saw is extremely efficient and precise for both stock dimensioning and joinery. I have cut tenons on a band saw. But i almost always go to my table saw first for rips, x-cuts, miters, tenons, bridle joints, lap joints and box joints. I haven't used it to cove cut (i just haven't had the need), but i am very intrigued by the Mario Rodriguez chair-seat-scooping cove-jig for the table saw.

I have to say too, that while I really like the suite of power tools now currently in my shop…no tool has been more rock solid, held its dead accurate precision, been as easy to set up and maintain as my 3hp PCS Saw Stop (haters back off!). The new (one week old) Hammer J/P may get there in time.

[Gordon Eyre]

Can woodworking be done without a tablesaw, absolutely. Centuries of carpenters and folks who wok with wood have proven that. I guess it boils down to what your time is worth. For me a tablesaw is the centerpiece of my small shop and I find it to be quick, accurate, and easy to set up for varied cuts. I hear you about the desire for a dust collector and the lack of room but I have had a tablesaw for lots longer than I have had a dust collector and feel that for me this still makes sense.