Best power to ease-of-use CAD program that is real cheap or free ?

[Scott Perkins47]

This question has been asked for the last 25 years but it bears
repeating on a regular basis due to the advance in technology.
The first personal use CAD programs appeared on the PC-AT
in about 1985 and we have come a long long way.
In some cases where 3D is not needed there have been super
easy to use 2D programs but I am afraid they have all died
due to lack of market interest in the face of all the whiz bang
3D development and a gigantic company acting as competition
and giving away their product for the past six years ( Google).

It would sure be nice to hear 1st hand the opinions about current products in the marketplace catering on the consumer level more so than the professional level.

Thanks

[Matt Meiser]

Easy 3D modeling for the amateur level IS the advance in technology. I can draw an item and get a much better idea what it will look like when its done, and I can understand multiple views in a 2D drawing. With 3D I can look at it from different angles. I can experiment with color. I can even draw the space it will go in and get an idea if it looks right there. My "customers"--my wife and my mom don't understand 2D drawings at all but when I walked my wife and my mom through their 3D kitchen designs they knew exactly what I was doing.

I have a license for Autodesk QuickCad from 10 years ago. It still works on Windows 7, but I can't remember the last time I used it. I'm not sure if I even have it installed on either of my machines.

[Stephen Cherry]

I asked this question a while back and Dan Hintz recommended Doublecad, which I have installed. It is free in its limited version, and pretty good. The problem I have with these programs is that if you don't use one regularly, you forget how it works.

[Christopher Clark]

I have used many versions Autocad at work over the years. But for my at home work, I'm very happy using the free version of Sketchup. There are plenty of pre-built models on the web. That's a real time saver.
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[Jay Hart]

Another vote for the free Sketchup. In my opinion it's a full featured software that is intuitive enough so that the learning curve is relatively short.

[Matt Day]

So you're basically wondering if there are any new alternatives to Sketchup? If there are they would have to be really really good because I'm very happy with SU.

[Myk Rian]

I think all the models on the web for SU make it the number one choice.
There are models for everything from door knobs to buildings, and even entire cities.

[Dave Richards]

In addition to the large number of available SketchUp components of various types there's also the fact that SketchUp, due to its popularity has the largest base of skilled users so it is much easier to find assistance when you need it. And SketchUp beats any 2D CAD application hands down for allowing the users to make both illustrations to communicate with the client as well as full blown plans once the final design is arrived at.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8438/7922092078_8765347200.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/8294157@N08/7922092078/)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8387/8605287273_2d6e7cc7f8.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/8294157@N08/8605287273/)
Chair design by Michael Fortune

[Peter Quinn]

Sorry, but sketchup kicked all their butts a few years back and they mostly haven't bothered even getting up to fight back. And really, at this point, why bother. I'd rather use sketchup for design than autocad frankly, its quicker and less cumbersome. Maybe at some point the models get so complex that a real cad program becomes neccessary, but not for most wood working IME.

['Jacques Malan']

I sometimes use Draftsight.

Useful for reading all sorts of legacy .dxf and .dwg drawings.

[William Adams]

Sketchup Make 2013 is only free for non-commercial use.

[Art Mann]

I have very little use for a 2-D drafting program since I began using Sketchup on a regular basis. I do appreciate the link to Draftsight. I plan to download and try it for those rare occasions when I need a simple 2-D drafting program.

[Dave Richards]

Sketchup Make 2013 is only free for non-commercial use.

That's true but it seems only fair if it's being used to make money that the authors should get some support. Besides, there are a number of features in the pro version that are useful including CAD import/export options, LayOut and technical support. If you were to buy SketchUp 2013 Pro now going forward I believe you'd get a free update to SketchUp 2014 when it is released (probably in the spring). And if you're really dead set against buying the pro version you can still get SketchUp 8. The free version of 8 doesn't have the non-commercial use limitation.

[Ernie Miller]

I use DeltaCad and Sketchup, and I wouldn't be without either of them. DeltaCad (http://www.deltacad.com/) is a 2d cad program that is quite easy to learn and very inexpensive at about $40. I use SketchUp for designing cases (I build harpsichords) and it's great for checking proportions and general joinery. However, the plans get quite complex and crowded and are better handled by a CAD program. The added complexity tends to slow SketchUp down to a crawl. As I need to have full sized plans printed, I need ouput in .dxf, .dwg, or .pdf formats. SketchUp (at least the free versions) cannot do this. In short, I find both programs indispensable.

[Dave Richards]

FWIW, I frequently make full size plans from Sketchup models and have no problems with that. I do use LayOut though which is part of the Pro package. I did a full size plan of the Michael Fortune chair using nothing but SketchUp and LayOut. Well, I used Excel and Word for the Cutlist.

[Ernie Miller]

This is a harpsichord plan CAD file drawn in DeltaCad (click to enlarge).

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While this can be done in Sketchup, by the time you've entered all the details (stings, tuning pins, etc.) I guarantee that Sketchup will be moving like molasses on chilly morning.

On the other hand, here's a Sketchup version of the instrument (without strings, pins, etc.) No CAD program can do this.

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or this!

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At least for me, both CAD and SketchUp are must haves.

[John TenEyck]

You can draw in 2-D with SketchUP, too, if so desired. I can't think of a reason I'd want to, but you can. I'm with Matt; many people can't grasp what they are looking at when I show them a 2D drawing, but nearly everyone instantly understands what a 3D drawing represents. Beyond that, it's easier for me to solve design and build problems in 3D. I used to use AutoCad at work, but I'd be using SketchUp there too now if I were still there. Happily, all my drawings now are for me.

John

[Scott Perkins47]

There is no question that Sketchup has achieved some phenominal success
in the marketplace but I think there were (are) several cheaper 3D and
(maybe 2d) full function CAD programs out there. I say that because
when I have visited other CAD specific forums the serious CAD pros often
are laughing at SU's limited (in comparison) capabilities. Sure the free version
kicks everyone's butt however I pretty much insist on being able to print
my stuff in whatever scale and on whatever paper I want to print on. That
pushes the program into the $650 price range and not free.
I think what happened is similar to what happened in the Browser when the
behemoth Microsoft decided to give Explorer away for free when Netscape
browser was ten times better. But no company can stay in business when
a behemoth decides to purchase all the market share by putting the competition
out of business or removing any business profit incentive to new entries into
the marketplace. My main reason for asking for futher review is I am planning
a rather complex project and dont want to spend hundreds of hours in SU
and find I must start over in another software technology fm scratch.

So far I have just scratched the surface but right now I am looking at
Design Cad 3d-MAX based upon its top rating as consumer level 3d CAD product
in a comparison with nine other packages. Previous to my finding the review,
I had heard a lot about Alibre 3D CAD.
( I dont even know what to think about Sketchup not being included in the
3D CAD review unless like someone here said SU something to the effect
was not a real CAD program. ? ? ? )

[Dave Richards]

SketchUp has never been a CAD program. It wasn't designed to be one. That said, it is extremely capable and for woodworkers (except maybe Ernie ;) ) up to the task. Heck, I know architects who are using nothing but SketchUp and LayOut to do everything from new house proposals to full packages for permitting and construction documentation for high end residential and commercial projects. But, if $650 is out of your league and the free version doesn't offer what you need, I guess there's nothing more to say about it.

It sounds like you have your mind made up. As long as it does what you need it to do, I'd say go for it.

I haven't looked at Design Cad 3d-Max for awhile. I had a look at their website. Hmmm...
http://img1.findthebest.com/sites/default/files/1576/media/images/DesignCAD_3D_Max_V_21_819175.png
Nice furniture drawings.

[Dan Hintz]

Scott,

If you understand the difference between SU and what a true CAD package does for you (and still want CAD), then I suggest DoubleCAD XT. Free, on the same line (or better) than AutoCAD LT (since it was designed as a competitor), and reads/writes all of the common formats.

[Joe Samorodin]

Never could get the hang of Sketchup but DesignCad 3d Max has been a really nice program to use. I can render a client drawing
in a few minutes and if I haven't used it for a while I can still get back to speed quickly

[Dave Richards]

Joe, it's good you've come along and posted. Scott's now got a "go to guy" when he has questions. Could you share some examples of your drawings that you show to clients?

[Scott Perkins47]

Dave Richards said:
"SketchUp has never been a CAD program. It wasn't designed to be one."

Well sorry but I dont understand that. Please explain. What the heck is Sketchup and what is the difference between Sketchup and CAD ?
What was Sketchup designed to be ? ... ( if not CAD ? )

I got my first clue to this when visiting "CAD" program support forums
and those guys were laughing at Sketchup and I could not understand why
since here everyone seems to love it ? ? ?



My only experience is with freehand drawing/paint programs
and an Architectural design program where all the elements were building
components such as windows, doors, walls, stairs etc.

[Dave Richards]

The original idea for SketchUp came from an architect who wanted a digital version of sketching on a napkin. He wanted to be able to sit down with a client and draw while they talked. He paid draftspeople to do the AutoCAD work and didn't see the need for that kind of drawing when he was working at the design stage.

That said, SketchUp has grown dramatically. It is being used in all sorts of fields to do what used to be the realm of CAD programs. I know architects who use SketchUp and LayOut for doing everything from initial proposal sketches to drawings for permitting and final construction documents. I know a guy who runs a large firm that designs material handling facilities. His company uses SketchUp and LayOut for nearly all of their design and construction documentation. SketchUp is being used for 3D printing, product design, landscape design, interior design more germain to this forum, furniture design.

To be blunt, those guys laughing at SketchUp or those who use it are uninformed. It doesn't take much looking to find places where SketchUp is being used. Just do a Google image search for some particular piece of furniture and you're likely to run across sketchUp drawings before you see something drawn in AutoCAD.

May I ask you a question now? Do you like the appearance of those illustrations of furniture from Design CAD 3D-Max? Those came from their website and are what they are using to sell their product. Would you be satisfied showing illustrations like that to a client? What if a chair drawing like that was put next to one like this?
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8439/7906022950_2388e09921.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/8294157@N08/7906022950/)
Which one do you suppose the client would prefer to see?

What about that table or this one?
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7168/6704416263_463082915c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/8294157@N08/6704416263/)

And both of these pieces could be drawn using the free version of SketchUp. There was nothing here that requires the pro version.

[Jim Underwood]

I think we need to remind ourselves that "CAD" stands for "Computer Aided Design". I think Sketchup qualifies for that definition. CAD doesn't just mean drawing lines...

And plus one on it's abilities. It's kicked butt in certain situations for me. I drew up parts for convex and concave shaped hoods with it, and easily imported those into our $10K cabinet design software, when our $10K CAD/CAM software (AlphaCAM) wouldn't do it correctly.

[Scott Perkins47]

The attached image is what I am gearing up for. The hull is basically
a wooden boat. The is the only plans drawn seaplane in history
that can be flown in the USA without a pilots license or FAA
registration.

[Scott Perkins47]

This is another of those life situations where you dont know
what you dont know.

I would sort of like to hear from a "real" CAD guy what
all the things are that Sketchup cannot do that "real" CAD
programs can do.

And yea, without question, the Sketchup chairs and tables
are prettier but I am in it more for the function and not
to be pretty, but thanks for pointing that out.

[Dave Richards]

As I said before, Scott, I make full-blown, detailed plans all the time from my SketchUp models. The good looking drawings are done for clients. Well, so are the plans but the use is different. It might be easier to define exactly what you want to do and see if it can be done in SketchUp. If you ask those "CAD guys" like the ones who laugh at SketchUp, you won't get accurate information. Ask someone who knows and is proficient with SketchUp.

That airplane looks like fun. You could definitely draw that in SketchUp.

What's the power plant?

[Bob Lang]

I'm a big fan of SketchUp as well as an experienced "CAD" guy. Before I published any books or magazine articles I prepared shop drawings for large-scale, high-end cabinet and millwork projects. My first books of measured drawings were all done in AutoCAD. I currently do most of the illustrations for Popular Woodworking Magazine, and all of that work begins as SketchUp models. I have both SketchUp and AutoCAD on my computer and rarely use AutoCAD. To design something and build successfully from that design there are two things you need to do – solve the problem then present the information. When I worked in CAD, I always had to consider the presentation early on. In SketchUp, I concentrate on solving the problem by building a model, and then I can extract as much 2D information as I want, in any form I want. It's faster, easier to make changes and because all the 2D drawings come from the same model I don't have to worry about whether or not all the views agree with each other. Compared to the price of traditional CAD software, SketchUp Pro is a real bargain. The free version can do all the modeling tasks to make furniture and cabinets, and it's hard to beat free.

Bob Lang

[Scott Perkins47]

What's the power plant?

The intake engine cooling fan and Muffler along with one blade of the propeller is visible in the drawing.
( engine inside the wing right behind the pilots head, and the propeller behind the wing )

[Dave Richards]

Yeah, I see that but what is it? Would you use some Rotax engine?