Sharpening advice

[Tim Geary]

Hello everyone, I'm new here and to woodworking too. I want to learn how to properly sharpen my tools on water stones. What Is the best DVD or book for this.
Thanks

[Hilton Ralphs]

Complete minefield but go to YouTube and look for Paul Sellers. He has a no frills approach to sharpening.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Get Ron Hock's book on sharpening. Excellent book. Sorry, I am moving and the book is packed so I don't know the title but look up Ron Hock Sharpening and you will find it.

[David Weaver]

If you're brand new, find the david charlesworth DVD on plane irons. It's very methodical, but it will get you 100% success to start, and you can work your way to less methodical.

[Chris Griggs]

These free videos will get you going. I believe they are pretty much the same thing David Charlesworth teaches...though his video is probably a good idea if you just getting started as I'm sure its more detailed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F7q5WGb4ZA&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PL5BE69422F61CEE64

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfX7T6qRut0

[bridger berdel]

a few more search terms:
leonard lee
Brent Beach
kato and kawai
Ron hock

[Tim Geary]

If you're brand new, find the david charlesworth DVD on plane irons. It's very methodical, but it will get you 100% success to start, and you can work your way to less methodical.

Ill look for this one. I have already watched the Lie Nielsen videos I just want more details. Thanks everyone.

[Jim Koepke]

Tim,

Welcome to the Creek.

Paul Sellers method is more for diamond plates. My feeling is it could leave some big divots in water stones.

The videos Chris linked to are a good place to start.

There is also the difference of starting with fairly new tools or starting with old tools that need a bit of rehabilitation. Newer tools do not require the wide range of metal removing material as a rust hunt find needs.

Sharpening is one of those "millions of ways to do it" topics. One thing you will find is your sharpening will improve with experience.

My suggestion is to first work on your accuracy, speed will come with experience.

If you free hand, another help might be, if you can, to set up a camera to video your sharpening. This will let you see how well you are holding your angle. There is no better critique than self critique using real evidence.

There are all kinds of techniques others may advise you to try. My advise is to keep it simple and first work toward getting a basic sharp edge.

Once you have the skill of getting a straight sharp edge you can progress to the ruler trick, cambered edges, multiple bevels and back bevels. Trying to do it all from the start will likely leave you wit a blade that doesn't perform and you won't know what step may have caused the problem.

Some may disagree with my approach, but then the world would be a boring place if everyone was in agreement.

So, how about a little information on you experience so far...
Do you have any powered sharpening equipment like a grinder?
What stones do you have?
What tools are you sharpening?

My power sharpening is mostly done on a Veritas Mk II power sharpening system. Recently bought a hand crank grinder and have a large grinding wheel that needs to be mounted.

My stones are both water and oil. My shop is unheated so in the winter my water stones would be ice stones. Most of my tools sharpen well on oil stones.

My sharpening needs include chisels, plane blades, gouges, a couple of scythes, garden tools, drill bits, kitchen knives and various other items.

jtk

[paul cottingham]

I like Charlesworth a lot, and his sharpening video is great. I would also consider Schwarz' video on sharpening. I think it's pretty minimalist, pretty easy and works well. He is also pretty clear that sharp is a journey, not a destination. The video is called "The Last Word On Sharpening."

[Archie England]

Also, check out the entire video series of Paul Sellers...

http://paulsellers.com/videos/

[Winton Applegate]

I just have my tool valet sharpen for me.
all that water mess and keeping track of grits and angles and things . .

Kidding !
Welcome to the ward !
let us know about specific questions for sure once you get a chance to try on your own.
Remember think on the micro level, just the hair's breath right at the edge is what does the cutting.

[Tim Geary]

Tim,

So, how about a little information on you experience so far...
Do you have any powered sharpening equipment like a grinder?
What stones do you have?
What tools are you sharpening?

My power sharpening is mostly done on a Veritas Mk II power sharpening system. Recently bought a hand crank grinder and have a large grinding wheel that needs to be mounted.

My stones are both water and oil. My shop is unheated so in the winter my water stones would be ice stones. Most of my tools sharpen well on oil stones.

My sharpening needs include chisels, plane blades, gouges, a couple of scythes, garden tools, drill bits, kitchen knives and various other items.

jtk

well I'm taking a beginners woodworking course and I'm really enjoying it. So far I've made a wooden mallet, a little step with dovetails and I'm in the middle of making 9 end grain cutting boards. Tools I have to sharpen are the narex bevel edge chisels and paring chisels. I also have a veritas low angle block plane and a bevel up jack plane. I have one cheap oil stone that doesn't work that well but I guess you get what you pay for. I sent someone an email about some water stones and will hopefully be buying them soon.

[Winton Applegate]

One of the very best things you could do is go take a class from some one really high in the woodworking world that you see in the best magazines. Not so much to learn how to sharpen but to use some of their sharp tools to get a feel for what a sharp plane feels like, what a sharp chisel feels like, what a sharp saw feels like (notice how you can't hardly help but cut a straight line with the sharp saw.
THEN ! ! ! !
you will know what you are aiming for.
There is "sharp", meaning better than your dull kitchen knives, and there is OH MY GOSH I never realized.
Hard to get that without having actually experienced it first. I went the hard rout because I am out here in the Wild, Wild, West and there wasn't much opportunity for cool guy seminars.

[Clay Fails]

Get Ron Hock's book on sharpening. Excellent book. Sorry, I am moving and the book is packed so I don't know the title but look up Ron Hock Sharpening and you will find it.
I second the suggestion for Ron Hock's book. It is excellent.

[Jacob Reverb]

Best book I've come across is "Complete Guide to Sharpening" by Leonard Lee. He really breaks it down to the essentials and does a good job of de-mystifying some ideas.

Might be worth checking your local library – that's where I found it.

[Tim Geary]

Best book I've come across is "Complete Guide to Sharpening" by Leonard Lee. He really breaks it down to the essentials and does a good job of de-mystifying some ideas.

Might be worth checking your local library – that's where I found it.

I live in a small town, I doubt they it. I was thinking about that one too. Ill have to buy it online and the charlesworth DVD. But so fa after watching the sellers video I think I'm leaning toward that method.

[Hilton Ralphs]

It's only $16 new (http://tinyurl.com/bmlazue).

[Tom Vanzant]

Tim,
Ron Hock's book is "The Perfect Edge".

[Don Dorn]

I agree with Jim in that there are many ways to do it and all work - to varying degrees. For along time, I tried many approaches - started with Deneb Pulchalski and the Eclipse Jig, then moved to the method Cosman uses and Ian Kirby. All worked well, but then I tried the Sellers approach. Having done that for about two years now, it seems to work best for me in both plane irons and chisels. It's also nice for butt chisels which I most often use and even small blades for combo planes. Like anything you stick with, you get better at it over time. I'll proably stick with this because:

I don't grind anymore (for the most part), it's fast, it gets my irons as sharp (or slightly sharper) as the other methods and I'm a believer that the convex edge lasts longer. The best thing for me was that the lack of accuracy at holding a perfect angle (without a jig) turned out to be a benefit rather than a hinderance. Now, when finishing a project, I simply sharpen each tool I used. Cosman once said that if you can sharpen quickly and well, you'll do it as opposed to using a tool until it gets to dull because sharpening is a chore - I agree.

Regardless of the method you choose - stick with it until you have it down as only then will you see if it's the best method for you in terms of sharpness vs time.

[Gary Muto]

Best book I've come across is "Complete Guide to Sharpening" by Leonard Lee. He really breaks it down to the essentials and does a good job of de-mystifying some ideas.

Might be worth checking your local library – that's where I found it.

I prefer Leonard Lee's book as well. I like Ron Hock's book too. It reads more like a text book. Lee's book is a little easier, as a "guide" should be.

[Tim Geary]

I ordered the book yesterday, I'm looking forward to reading it. I was thinking of water stones but after watching Paul sellers video I'm thinking diamond stones might be the way to go.

[Jack Curtis]

I ordered the book yesterday, I'm looking forward to reading it. I was thinking of water stones but after watching Paul sellers video I'm thinking diamond stones might be the way to go.

What does your woodworking class teacher have to say? I think it's kind of funny that in the first 5 messages you got 5 different recommendations, which should tell you something. When I figure out what that is, I'll gladly share it. :) Welcome.

[Tim Geary]

What does your woodworking class teacher have to say? I think it's kind of funny that in the first 5 messages you got 5 different recommendations, which should tell you something. When I figure out what that is, I'll gladly share it. :) Welcome.

He likes to sharpen on oil stones. But he only uses one medium grit. The chisel will not cut through a piece of paper or the hair on my arm. I don't really want to challenge him on it.

[Andrew Bell]

After going through the process of reading many books, heaps of internet posts etc trying to find the perfect sharpening solution, I'd suggest that you spend a short amount of time watching videos, make the decision if you want to go Oil, Ceramic, Water or Diamond then go an buy an affordable 1000 and 6000 ish stone and some blades to sharpen and have at it.

Sharpening appears to be something that there are many ways that work, not everything will work for everyone and much that is done is subtle and difficult to put into words. If I had put my research time into actually sharpening, I would have progressed faster; I think many have gone on the journey to find the perfect sharpening technique and very few feel they have got there.

[Jack Curtis]

He likes to sharpen on oil stones. But he only uses one medium grit. The chisel will not cut through a piece of paper or the hair on my arm. I don't really want to challenge him on it.

Aha, probably a good idea to let it lie. Hope he at least strops after the oil.

[Harold Burrell]

He likes to sharpen on oil stones. But he only uses one medium grit. The chisel will not cut through a piece of paper or the hair on my arm. I don't really want to challenge him on it.

Nah...I would at least challenge him to a duel. ;)

[Jim Koepke]

He likes to sharpen on oil stones. But he only uses one medium grit. The chisel will not cut through a piece of paper or the hair on my arm. I don't really want to challenge him on it.

In one of Paul Seller's videos he proclaims that sharpening beyond 250 grit is unnecessary since that is where he stops with sandpaper when he will be applying a finish.

I have sanded or planed much finer than that and must be missing something because nothing that I have made has finish flaking off or peeling.

If someone is using sandpaper after planing, then it really doesn't matter to the end result of there are nicks in the blade or if it was dull. Where it matters to me is the effort needed to cut with dull tools and in the case of chisels they are likely to slip and do something that is unexpected and unwanted.

My extra fine diamond stone stays mostly in the kitchen for knives. After awhile the knives need to go out to the shop to reestablish an edge. They are sharper off of either my oil stones or water stones than off of the diamond stone.

With a smooth translucent hard Arkansas stone I can get an edge almost as sharp as with my 8000 water stone. The water stone is a little faster. Currently with snow outside and record low temps my water stones are on vacation.

It is convenient to have stones as wide as your biggest blade. In my case my biggest blade is in a #8 at 2-5/8". Working that edge on a small stone would be a pain in the you know where.

For my purposes a 1000, 4000 & 8000 water stone set up fill most of my woodworking tool sharpening needs.
On the oil stone side I mostly use a soft Arkansas and my translucent hard Arkansas. Occasionally a medium India stone is used. With my oil stones a lot depends on the blade being worked as to which stone gets put to work at any one time. There are about a dozen or so to pick from laying on the bench.

If you can find opportunities to try the different systems before buying, so much the better.

I didn't really get the hang of using oil stones until after learning to use water stones.

jtk

[Jim Matthews]

In one of Paul Seller's videos he proclaims that sharpening beyond 250 grit is unnecessary since that is where he stops with sandpaper when he will be applying a finish. jtk

That may have just been a demonstration of possibilities.
In the classroom setting, we were drilled to step through three stones (the finest being 1200 grit) and then strop the bevel to remove the burr.

I believe that you can get a sharp edge at lesser grits, but not a keen one that's easy to manipulate.

The point was that you can get a near zero radius with coarser media, but it's less desirable and a great deal more work.

Let us not confuse the issue.

[Rob Luter]

Hello everyone, I'm new here and to woodworking too. I want to learn how to properly sharpen my tools on water stones. What Is the best DVD or book for this.
Thanks


As others have indicated, knowing how to sharpen properly is a key skill. Many advocate water stones, but there are a number of "right" ways to do it. Maybe not a million as has been suggested, but a bunch for sure.

Personally, I've never had great luck with water stones or oil stones. I made myself a sharpening station that uses 3M Microabrasive film (http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/dept/THS/item/ST-MAF.XX). I mounted 1/4" thick glass panels to five 1" thick MDF blocks and use one grit per block. I can flatten backs of chisels and plane irons to a near optically perfect mirror finish. For the primary edge I start with a hollow grind using a slow speed grinder, then using a Veritas sharpening jig I work through the five abrasive grits. It's fast and very effective. Compared to other methods it's very economical too. You never have to flatten anything and when the film wears out you just replace it.

As Winston suggests, knowing what "sharp" is in the context of actually using the tool makes a big difference. I used to think my chisels and planes were sharp until I tried a plane that Chris Schwarz had at a tool show. You would have thought I was planing soap instead of maple. It was a real eye opener to me as to what "sharp" really was.

[Jim Koepke]

That may have just been a demonstration of possibilities.

It is likely just my misunderstanding of his point in showing this. He seemed to be implying in the video that this was all that was needed to produce the surfaces on the pieces being displayed.

My way of teaching this would have been to have people try working with blades sharpened at the different grits. Then instead of giving some the idea that coarse is good enough, they would have the experience to guide their method of work.

I have met more than a few people that think a coarse grinding wheel is all that is needed to sharpen a blade.

Those who instruct others need to realize a simple "demonstration of possibilities" turns into gospel in the minds of many.

jtk

[Jim Matthews]

Point taken.

The man himself mused about the dangers of being a "guru".
Mr. Sellers is easily misconstrued, but I wonder if that's just a way of generating interest.

I never saw him handle a blade with less than a 1200 grit hone and final stropping.
There was mention made of even finer polishes that were reserved for delicate carving.

I never saw any of that, we were all about bashing out mortises and planing things smooth.

I lost nearly 4 pounds, in 9 days.

[Jim Koepke]

Mr. Sellers is easily misconstrued, but I wonder if that's just a way of generating interest.

Maybe it is my falling for something that wasn't meant to be serious. I have seen very few of his videos. The only ones I have seen left me wondering about what he is trying to get across.

One of his videos on dovetails seemed more like a spoof of a dovetail demonstration than a real teaching video.

Maybe I have only read posts with links to his "having fun" videos.

jtk

[Jim Matthews]

There's a degree of simplification in his videos that is not included in direct instruction.

He's deliberate, and doesn't deviate from the method in the classroom.
The uniformity of product turns me off, I think his design sense is staid.

That said, it's an effective way for me to actually finish what few projects I start.

In the classroom setting, it's about getting on with it and making things with a few key tools.
The endless harping about cutting a knife line on all cross grain marks has stuck in my head.

I dunno what he's on about in the "lookit this!" videos, as he's got some kind of running gag with the other British instructors.

It feels like the divorcing parents are fighting around the kids, sometimes.

[Jim Koepke]

One guy that seems good at simplification is Charles Neil.

I enjoy his video on building a five board bench:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX4fXbRNqqY

It is kind of slow and may even be a touch boring, but it is a treasure trove of information for the beginner.

Note, the guy kind of reminds me of Moe Howard.

jtk

[Jim Matthews]

[QUOTE=Jim Koepke;2190439Note, the guy kind of reminds me of Moe Howard.jtk[/QUOTE]

Same barber, no doubt.
I like this approach - it's within reach for any of us, and it isn't precious.

I aspire to finer furniture than this, but it's much like what I actually finish.