My new Triumph is finally home, and of course, questions-

[Kev Williams]

--mostly 1 question, which I'll get to in a bit...

I ordered a plain-jane Triumph TR1390, no options whatsoever 80w unit. The thing is huge, the shipping warehouse that was supposed to deliver it to me couldn't because I don't have a loading dock (I work at home) and it wouldn't fit on a liftgate. So I saved $280 (less $42 for the U-haul) and picked it up myself...

http://www.engraver1.com/pictures/t1.jpg



Since we fed our kids well yesterday, they felt obliged to help unload the thing ;) -- which I was grateful for the help! 1115 pounds isn't easy to push off a trailer!

After we got it uncrated...

http://www.engraver1.com/pictures/t2.jpg

http://www.engraver1.com/pictures/t3.jpg


Once we got it on its wheels it rolled around easy. Sure made the garage smaller in short order!


---ok, so now for the question: I ordered this as a 220 volt unit. However, all of the plugs and outlets are typical of 110 volt US plugs:

http://www.engraver1.com/pictures/t4.jpg

http://www.engraver1.com/pictures/t5.jpg

http://www.engraver1.com/pictures/t6.jpg

http://www.engraver1.com/pictures/t7.jpg


Ok, so the blower plug is a bit not-typical, and they sent adapters for that-- but my concern is, all plugs have L-N-E markings, which I assume means I shouldn't be adding a second 110v hot to the "N" side, correct? So am I looking at a step-up xformer or--?

Thanks in advance for any help! :)

[Mark Sipes]

The wiring is the easy part. getting all the recepticals is the challenge L line N neutral E earth (ground)

Here is a good/humor vid http://www.wikihow.com/Wire-a-220-Outlet



Felllow Triumph owner.... http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?208713-My-review-of-buying-a-Triumph-laser

[Kev Williams]

Well, I already have all the receptacles, and I'm fine with understanding the basics of US power, but as I understand it, US 240v is 2-phase power via 120v on 2 lines 180° out of phase with each other, and European 240v however is single phase power, with all 240 volts on one line, which will require a step-up transformer or a 240v 2-phase to single phase converter? - but since I'm not sure, that's why I'm asking!



I was kind of hoping that when I asked for 240 volt service it would've been wired for US service and not European... But not a big deal, I just need to make sure what will work! :)

[Dave Sheldrake]

Our power is indeed single phase 240 over here.

Euro wiring is

L = Live
N = Neutral
E = Earth

cheers

Dave

[Dan Hintz]

---ok, so now for the question: I ordered this as a 220 volt unit. However, all of the plugs and outlets are typical of 110 volt US plugs:

http://www.engraver1.com/pictures/t4.jpg


I would be concerned about this one... that's a 15A, 120V plug on a 240V compressor. If you plug it in as is, you're going to blow the compressor.

[Dave Sheldrake]

I don't know if the Triumph is the same but on the back of the HX machines there are 4 outlets for stuff like the compressor / extractor etc. They are two pin but wired for 240 (Live / Neutral). For UK supply I just cut them off and wired direct to a normal UK mains plug.

I'm no sparky Kev but it looks like your machine would plug right in over here and work suggesting they have supplied a European version, that would give me concerns about using it on a US supply system (as I said though, I know nothing about mains supplies over there)

cheers

Dave

[Walt Langhans]

I'm assuming you have not powered it up yet and thus haven't aligned the mirrors yet? In which case I hope the kids are still around or that it rolls well because you're going to want to pull it out of that corner :D

[Kev Williams]

The Triumph has 4 of the "universal" outlets on the back, which supposedly any plug in the world can be plugged into. Any 110 I have and that angled 3-prong on the blower does fit- in my last pic above, that is a universal adapter.

Dan, although you can't read it, the plug on that compressor says "6A 240V". I didn't know it before, but it's obvious that China at least, uses our style of plugs--

Walt, I have it out in the middle of the garage, it rolls around almost TOO easy! But I can't hook it up just yet--

After a little research, I've found that while our 240v is considered "single phase", since it requires two 120 volt leads to get that 240 volts, it is in fact two-phase, each 60hz line delivering its 120 volts 30hz apart, which results in a single-phase 240v supply, but at 120hz instead of 60hz. European 240v is delivered on a single line, at 50hz. From what I can gather from my research, the only way we can get more than 120 volts on a single line is the 277 volts you get on each line of a 480 volt 3-phase input.

The blower and compressor I'm not worried about, I have plenty of compressed air available, and I can get a HF blower like all my others. I'll just worry about running the laser and chiller on 240, and I'm looking for a 3000w voltage converter right now. Just hope I can find one in town--

[Dan Hintz]

Dan, although you can't read it, the plug on that compressor says "6A 240V". I didn't know it before, but it's obvious that China at least, uses our style of plugs--
Just didn't want you plugging that into a standard US 120V socket (it will fit)... bad things will happen to that compressor if you do.


After a little research, I've found that while our 240v is considered "single phase", since it requires two 120 volt leads to get that 240 volts, it is in fact two-phase, each 60hz line delivering its 120 volts 30hz apart, which results in a single-phase 240v supply, but at 120hz instead of 60hz. European 240v is delivered on a single line, at 50hz. From what I can gather from my research, the only way we can get more than 120 volts on a single line is the 277 volts you get on each line of a 480 volt 3-phase input.
I wouldn't use the term "two-phase"... it's seriously outdated, and is not what we have. Two-phase means the phases are 90 degrees out of phase with each other. What we have [i]is[/u] single-phase. The 240V created by picking off both sides of the line is still 60Hz, not 120Hz. To be correct, they are not 30Hz apart (this makes no sense), they are 180 degrees out of phase.

[Dave Sheldrake]

How do US machines go about grounding? the main supply to the Chinese machines (EU spec) is grounded via a 3 pin plug.

cheers

Dave

[Kev Williams]

OK, so explain this simple situation: What happens if I take each 120v leg from my 240v breaker and connect them together? Do I have 240V 120hz, 240V 60hz, or a fire?

[Jerome Stanek]

popped breakers at least. You will need a 110 to 220 transformer for this. Why would you order a 220 unit in the first place? Max power on them are 1000 watts not even as much as a space heater or Vacuum cleaner.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Max power on them are 1000 watts not even as much as a space heater or Vacuum cleaner.

Huh? what you mean Jerome?

cheers

Dave

Ahh you mean the max power requirement of the machine.

[Dan Hintz]

OK, so explain this simple situation: What happens if I take each 120v leg from my 240v breaker and connect them together? Do I have 240V 120hz, 240V 60hz, or a fire?

If you pick up 120V from the same leg, you'll get 120V from line to neutral with double the amperage capacity (though that wouldn't be to code). If you pick up 120V from opposite legs, you get 240V from line to neutral (though at that point neutral should be relabeled line, as well). Frequency never changes, it's always 60Hz.

EDIT: Should have read the question more closely. If you look at both lines from a 240V breaker, they are each 120V with respect to ground, each one 180 degrees out of phase with the other. If you connect them together, you will short out the lines and pop the breaker. The stuff above still applies...

[Kev Williams]

Oh, I would expect connecting the two legs would pop a breaker! However, the phrases "each one is 180° out of phase with each other" indicates TWO phases, yet-- it's single phase...? It is confusing...

Jermome- why 220? More efficient use of electricity. Understand that all of the machines in my signature, plus at least a dozen computers, a very large air compressor, various saws, grinders, etc etc, are all IN OUR HOME! We had a second service panel installed years ago for the machines, but still, I'm not fond of warm 110v power plugs. And as I said above, I expected "American" 220, not European. I just assumed (very wrongly) that since they were shipping it to North America, that was a given. Never take anything for granted! (And I have a 3000w transformer on its way)

[Dan Hintz]

However, the phrases "each one is 180° out of phase with each other" indicates TWO phases, yet-- it's single phase...? It is confusing...

I can see how it would be, and it's mostly because the terminology used is not specific. Consider a loop, which we'll call a "phase". The flow of energy at the top of the coil is in the opposite direction to that at the bottom. If you were to stand in the middle of that loop, you would note the energy at the top is 180 degrees out of phase with that at the bottom. This is 1-phase power (single phase in the US).

Now add a second loop that runs left and right... same situation as before (left is 180 degrees out of phase with the right), but this new loop is 90 degrees out of phase with the top/bottom loop. This is 2-phase power (no longer used for power transmission).

Add in a third loop and space all three loops out equally, they are now all 120 degrees out of phase form each other. This is 3-phase power, as used by most high-power transmission lines.

Each loop is called a "phase" and each is 120 degrees out of phase with the others. However, depending upon your viewpoint (where ground is viewed from), one could also say each of those loops has a mirror that is 180 degrees out of phase with itself... but 3-phase power systems tend to ignore that.

I hope that's a little more clear, but probably not by much.