Custom Coins

[Walt Langhans]

Hi All!

I have an idea for doing some custom coins (one sided), but I don't want to reinvent the wheel so I figured I'd get some advice.

I would like to use metal, but I know my laser won't cut through it or even probably scratch it so...
1/ I've seen people make designs on metal the forum before, but I have no idea how they do it and or what products they are using.
2/ If I have to use round metal blanks, how the heck to you get them to line up with your design file every time? I assume some kind of jig?

If the metal turns out to be too expensive or difficult what else is out there that could give the appearance of a coin?

Thanks!

[Mark Sipes]

http://primeideas.com/DistributorCentralImages/Coins/wooden.gifhttp://woodencoin.com/images/billminor-face.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/Package-Round-Disc-Unfinished-Cutouts/dp/B008K1QSOI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1385609599&sr=8-1&keywords=wooden+coins (http://www.amazon.com/Package-Round-Disc-Unfinished-Cutouts/dp/B00CA1Y878/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1385609599&sr=8-2&keywords=wooden+coins)

[David Somers]

I am afraid I have no idea how the surface image of a metal coin is done on a CO2 laser, other than with a marking solution like Cermark. Or, You could paint the surface and then engrave away the paint. Or use anodized aluminum and do the same thing.

Either way though, your blanks will be made up identically by someone. Purchased pre made if you will. So you will know the diameters. Use some scrap plywood and make up a corel file to deeply engrave the plywood to hold those diameter coins. Then use a copy of that same file to place and copy your coin design onto the circles of coins to burn the metal coins that have been placed in their places on the plywood. That would easily solve your accurate placement question. So the file you make your work holder from becomes the template for your coins and can be lined up easily and quickly.

Keep in mind I have not gotten a laser yet. I am throwing this out there to see what those with a clue come up with. <grin> These were my first thoughts if the coins had to be metal. If they could be wood...use the same technique. Get the blanks Mark Sipes provided the link for and once you know the diameters, make a holder for those diameters out of plywood.

Or, if you can get the wood you like for the coins, engrave and cut them out with your laser from the solid stock?

Mark Sipes! I noticed you are from Gig Harbor? Hey from a neighbor to the north! West Seattle! Hope you have a terrific Thanksgiving!!!! And you too Walt!!!

Dave

[Ross Moshinsky]

Go online and do a search for stainless steel coin blanks if you want metal. Otherwise you can buy wood blanks like shown above or cut out your own coins out of sheet stock (wood or plastic).

There are also challenge coins from JDS which have more of a coin feel.

[Dan Hintz]

David,

For someone who doesn't yet have a laser, I'd say you're picking up on the fine details without a problem :)

[Walt Langhans]

Thanks guys!

My goal is to have the metal look, so the wooden stuff is out. The cermark is what I was thinking about but couldn't remember what it was called (I've never used it).

Kind of along the same lines, is there a metal looking plastic that is designed to be lasered that looks good?

[David Somers]

Walt,

I recently saw an art installation here in Seattle where someone was using a dichroic acrylic for some geometric pieces. It was sort of kind of metallic looking. But not really what you think of for a metal coin. It was clear, but highly reflective. I also have no idea how laserable that stuff would be?

There are metallic films that can be used to cover something, and material cut with a laser. I just looked for it and now can't remember where I saw it. I bet someone will know the exact product.

This may be more work than you want, but how about engraving a wood or an acrylic circle, then covering it with a metallic paint? The wood especially would be engravable in a bas relief (a 3d engraving if you will) so the paint or coating you put on it would retain that bas relief? Just a thought for yet another variation on this.

Dave

[David Somers]

Thanks Dan! Been reading like a fiend trying to be on top of things before ordering something! Been fun and interesting no matter what I end up doing!

The turkey is cooking away! Smells great! Hope you are having a great Holiday!

Dave

[Dan Hintz]

Walt,

I recently saw an art installation here in Seattle where someone was using a dichroic acrylic for some geometric pieces. It was sort of kind of metallic looking. But not really what you think of for a metal coin. It was clear, but highly reflective. I also have no idea how laserable that stuff would be?

Plenty laserable... look for the Evonik Acrylite series. The dichroic stuff is mucho expensive, but it's cool.

[brian saban]

Why not just use anodized aluminum discs? just a thought

[Dave Sheldrake]

For someone who doesn't yet have a laser, I'd say you're picking up on the fine details without a problem

Agree with Dan totally Dave, your going to do well when your laser arrives

cheers

Dave

[Mark Sipes]

There are metallic gold, silver and bronze plastics 1/8" with a black core. Still not sure what the final product is intended to be. Do you have a market or are you attempting to create a fad? Golfers have ball markers, small side, to the aztec calendar... . Anodized alum is easy to work with. Cermark is great on stainless. 3d is best created with IkonMetal Resin Plastic.



http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4916660719714976&pid=15.1&w=126&h=151&p=0IKONmetal

Plastics

http://www.johnsonplastics.com/engravingcatalog.html

[Walt Langhans]

Still not sure what the final product is intended to be.

Yeah me neither, which could be part of my issue :P

The anodized aluminum might do the trick. Can you laser through (ie remove) the anodized part?

The metallic plastic with the black core might also work.

On a side note, regarding johnsonplastic.com... an online virtual catalog that you page through... really?!?! I swear it seems like so many manufacturers can't put together a good web site to save their lives...

[David Somers]

Walt,

I just took a minute to look at that IKONMetal product and it is pretty interesting. Pretty pricey too, but depending how you use it, might actually be reasonable.

If you were kind of looking for a use for a metallic coin have you considered something along the lines of a military Challenge Coin? Check out the concept with a web search if you are not familiar with it. I have not see them take on the importance they seem to have in the general public as they do in the military, but if you could develop a hook into a particular group of people they might become pretty lucrative. I am not in the military, but have lots of friends in difference services and see these things being traded and discussed at gatherings all the time. Think of them as coins that commemorate a group, or a vessel, or some event. And they are traded around. Most of the time they seem to be low end cast coins, sometimes enameled. They are nice looking, but not high end coins by any means.

As I looked at the Ikonmetal, and considered challenge coins the first parallel I could think of in the civilian world might be groups like the Scouts that have so many small groups, so many small ventures, so many methods of recognition and remembering events that these might fit beautifully. And in my own line of work, the National Parks, I see our Law Enforcement folks trading and collecting patches from the other LE agencies they work with on a regular basis or on specific details. it is not unusual at all to go into someone's office and find a large framed display that shows off all the patches they have collected to date. And they love to talk about the connections or events they represent. Building the Challenge Coin concept into this type of population could be pretty cool. Another group I thought of are Forest Fire Fighters; local, State and Federal. Coins to commemorate a large project fire could have a great deal of significance to people, and a large project fire can have 1500 or more people on it for a multi week to a multi month event. And that just counts the fire fighters themselves. Add in all the support crews, who are all intimately linked to each event and you have quite the population to draw from.

Just some thoughts. Hope they help.

And yes...that catalog was "interesting." An interesting concept. <grin>

Dave

[Walt Langhans]

@ David That IKONMetal product is pretty darn cool! Thanks for the input and ideas :)

[Scott Shepherd]

@ David That IKONMetal product is pretty darn cool! Thanks for the input and ideas :)

Don't get too excited about Ikon metal. Do a search for it on here. It's been around for many years now and there's a reason no one ever mentions it.

[David Somers]

Scott,

I noticed you were one of the posters back when it was first introduced and a series of posts ran in SawMill Creek on it between 2007 and 2010? Seemed like the conversations varied between issues about warping, and concerns about the material ejected from the stuff as it was burned creating a mess and possibly causing harm to your optics? The other end of the spectrum seemed to be some folks who at least at the time seemed fairly happy with their first experiences with it? Then the conversations stopped in 2010?

Has anyone had some recent experiences with it that might help Walt? I wonder if they may not have re-formulated it in the intervening time or if the same level of difficulty and/or success is out there? I am curious as well. Seems like a potentially cool product for small scale work on a laser?

Walt,

Another thought for you, though it would not be a metal coin, would be to do an infill process I use in wood turning. You use engrave down to about 3/32" into your substrate. In my case that is wood of some sort. Then pour a finely powdered metal dust into it. I have used copper, brass, and aluminum, all in -100 mesh. Work it into the design carefully, and keep the dust a bit higher than the surface of the substrate. Then saturate the powder with an extremely low viscosity cyanoacrylic glue. Don't use an accelerator on it. Let it cure naturally. Once it has cured sand it down, using progressively finer grits down to the 4000 range, and buff the heck out of it to get a luster. Depending on your substrate you may go finer. They key to the process is a consistent -100 grit powder, at least in those particular metals I mentioned. And a fresh, very low viscosity CA glue. Old glue ends up with an increased viscosity and won't penetrate well. If you have gaps after you initially sand it you can pick the loose stuff out with a dental pick and apply more metal and glue. The result is quite striking, and can be used in some fairly detailed areas since the mesh size of the metal is pretty fine.

I can't picture this being useful for much beyond a 1 off kind of piece unfortunately. The sort of thing a silly wood turning hobbiest might do. But it is another possible technique for you?

And then of course, there is the possibility of using the laser to make a wood or Ikonmetal concept piece for a coin, and giving that to a foundry along with your graphic file as the basis for a casting. Or, using it for a mask for sandblasting a coin. Though I have trouble picturing that process for this.

Anxious to hear what your final outcome is!

Dave

[Scott Shepherd]

Dave, back in those days, it was new and it had a lot of promise. It was promptly displayed at every trade show as some new, amazing product. I think when people started getting it (it was quite expensive), and realizing that it took a LONG time to engrave and cut, that it ran the price of the finish product up so high, so quickly, that it wasn't a great practical, low cost solution. Since those days, I have not seen it at a single trade show in the last 3 years or so. I don't know what happened to it, but I guess the laws of supply and demand came into play and it disappeared from advertising because people weren't flocking to it.

I think it's a clever product and it looks great, but my guess is that if no one has posted anything about it here in 3-4 years, then there's a lot to be read into that.

[David Somers]

Thanks Scott!! Appreciate the follow up. Someday, when and if I have a laser of some sort in hand, I might see what it is like, just for giggles. Will report back. Hopefully they have a sampler available to play with. Another curious material was laser frost. But at $2 for a 2 inch disk it is also spendy. Hmmmmm. I wish Walt good luck playing with this. Am curious to see what the final product is and how he approaches it.

Thanks again Scott!

Dave

[Chuck Stone]

If it is just a 'metal look' you're after, you might consider getting an inexpensive
casting kit, a quart of resin, some powdered bronze, copper or nickel silver and
use your laser to make a master in Corian, wood, acrylic.. whatever will work.
Make a mold of that and add the powdered metal to the resin and pour.
They look metallic (because there really is metal in them) and can even be
treated with chemicals to give them a 'patina' or verdigris, depending on which
metal you use.

[Walt Langhans]

The casting stuff would be very cool and I do have experience with metal working and casting but for what I'm thinking about I need to be able to turn these out at a very minimal cost and effort for it to make any money. I'm thinking that the plastic looking metal with the second color under it would be the way to go for what I'm trying to achieve. But it looks like my laser is having some issue so I need to figure that out asap... I'll be doing some troubleshooting tomorrow and hopefully figure it out, if not I'll be posting asking for some help.

[Mike Null]

I'm quite sure that Ikon metal has been discontinued. It was very expensive and very slow to engrave. It could not be laser cut either.

Spin casting is the way many challenge coins are made. if you want color and any volume at all you're better off going to China or Korea to source them.

[Dave Gates]

Mike Null is right...Ikonmetal is discontinued. I still have a couple pieces left.

For the coins, I have a customer making coins with a mold I lasered. I was provided the artwork, reversed the image in Corel, and lasered into wood and acrylic. The acrylic worked better and cleaned up easier between uses. He had 2 disc (front and back) and would stamp putty resin between the discs. After the resin dried, he would use metallic paints on them. The end result looked good if you don't mind a little rough edge. Kinda looks like old Roman coins.