Hanging an open upper cabinet without visible screws?

[Matt Meiser]

Designing a large-ish upper cabinet that will be open on the front. It butts against the ceiling and has to scribed around something on the side that prevents using a french cleat. I'd like to avoid screws through the back. Probably not possible, but anything I haven't thought of?

The back would be beadboard ply. I'm showing it flush but I can put cleats behind, just can't do a french cleat because i can't lift the cabinet up and drop it the 1" or so down.

[Sam Murdoch]

Add the beadboard back after you hang it through the cleats. Prefit the bead board of course.

In other words add a few cleats or a false 1/2" back as part of the construction of the cabinet through which you can fasten the cabinet to the wall. Then add your beadboard - a 1/4" panel or something you make out of solid stock. You would loose a minor amount of cabinet depth but insure a secure hang.

[Jamie Buxton]

Or..Put the nail rail on the top of the cabinet. To hang the cabinet, reach in over the top of the cabinet with a long bit on your screw gun to run screws through the nail rail. Then add molding or part of the face frame on the front to cover the gap between the cabinet and the ceiling.

[Stephen Cherry]

Similar to Sam, but a false ceiling, to be put in after installation, to hide the screws, and maybe the wires for some lights?

[Jim Matthews]

Add the beadboard back after you hang it through the cleats. Prefit the bead board of course.

That's clever, right there.
Slide the backing in from the bottom?

It sounds sort of like fitting a drawer bottom.

[Jim Bowers]

Z-bar is only 1/2 inch projection when installed

[Sam Murdoch]

Z-bars are great http://zbarhanger.com/12-feet-long-zbar-hang.html?gclid=CJzH5dnJgrsCFSEV7AodvmkArw There are other versions and sources. They really do the job.

As for adding the bead board after the cabinet is hung I wasn't suggesting anything as tricky as sliding the back up from the bottom - simply cut your one piece or two piece finished bead board back and push it in through the front. Glue with panel adhesive or use finish nails to hold it to the sub back.

[Matt Meiser]

Zbar still requires you to lift the cabinet higher than its final installed position though. I could deal with that at the top with trim installed after if it wasn't for the protrusion I have to scribe around on the left side. I really don't want to split up that stile and install a filler after and I can't think of a way to fill/cover a gap at the top that doesn't look like I'm filling/covering a gap.

The suggestion to install the backs after isn't a bad idea at all and the modified version to slide it in after is really creative but I'm not sure I have the room beneath--need to do some measuring. Since I have that false end panel I could also slide it in from the side, but I'm sure I don't have side clearance to do so after the cabinet is up. I had wanted to put a screw or two through the back into the shelf to help prevent sag, but I'm thinking I want a center stile anyway for appearance reasons so I can tie the shelf to that.

I also I could just drill a plug-sized hole through the back, put the screw in the cleat, then put a matching plug in the hole which wouldn't look terrible. My biggest objection to anything visible is that the cabinet isn't centered on studs so the holes won't be symmetrical inside the cabinet.

[Art Mulder]

Matt, this is an upper cabinet... so how high will the bottom of the cabinet be? If it is like a kitchen cabinet, then from my height, the underside of the cabinet is almost never seen. So I would put the screws under the bottom shelf through a cleat along the back. This gives the basic support, but you still need some other screws to keep it from tipping out. I could put a few screws through the top (right behind the front rail, so they are essentially hidden) into the ceiling, or as close to the ceiling as possible in the back. Those would also be well out of sight.

I hope that is clear, or I could do a quick diagram.

[Jim Finn]

I am not sure of your space restrictions. Could you put a French cleat up-side-down at the top, slide the cabinet into it? Now the top is secured. Install part of a French cleat at the bottom of the cabinet, and after putting the cabinet in place slide the bottom of that lower cleat in place and secure it.

[Matt Meiser]

Excellent idea Jim. That coupled with Art's idea will work. It goes above a desk so the bottom will actually be visible when sitting at the desk, but I can put a cleat on the bottom and then fill the screw holes with plugs or even some bondo and touch up the paint there.

Honestly this is just my shop office but I decided to treat it like a real project and learn something new.

[Erik Christensen]

I have used the Fastcap system for a number of uppers and if done right the mounting screws are simply not visible. I got the 9/16" FastCap FlushMount Bit that drills a perfectly sized, flat bottom hole with absolute depth precision & then I use an impact drill to seat the #10 large head screws accurately and finally cover with a matching species veneer adhesive dot that I finished in the same manner as the cabinet back. The flush bit & impact drill combo leaves the veneer cover perfectly flush with the rest of the back and other than a grain discontinuity it is basically invisible. easiest and most bomb proof way I have found to hang uppers - in many ways I think it just as load bearing as a french cleat and a lot easier to nudge one side or the other to get a perfect fit to the adjacent uppers.

[George Bokros]

If one side of the cabinet will be against the a wall could you have a notch in the side that will be against the wall and slide the cabinet onto the french cleat? The notch would be against the wall and would not be seen.

George

[Mike Henderson]

If one side of the cabinet will be against the a wall could you have a notch in the side that will be against the wall and slide the cabinet onto the french cleat? The notch would be against the wall and would not be seen.

George
George beat me to it. If you have space on the side, you can use a carefully fitted French cleat and slide the cabinet on to the cleat. You may scrape the ceiling but the part that's over the cabinet doesn't matter and the part that's on the side of the cabinet (where you started the slide) can be repaired.

Use wax on the cleats so they slide easily. You'll still need some molding because houses aren't that square.

Mike

[If you do that and someone comes along later to take the cabinet down, they'll scratch their heads trying to figure out how you did that.]

[Jason White]

Perhaps you could screw through the back and then add another "false" back? In other words, install a 3"-4" cleat at the top and bottom of the cabinet, screw through those into the wall, then slide in the false back over the cleats? Maybe you could rout some dados in front of the cleats. That way you could slide some 1/4" plywood (or whatever) up from the bottom and fasten with some headless pins into the cleats.

Have never tried this; just spitballin'...


Designing a large-ish upper cabinet that will be open on the front. It butts against the ceiling and has to scribed around something on the side that prevents using a french cleat. I'd like to avoid screws through the back. Probably not possible, but anything I haven't thought of?

The back would be beadboard ply. I'm showing it flush but I can put cleats behind, just can't do a french cleat because i can't lift the cabinet up and drop it the 1" or so down.

[Sam Murdoch]

Perhaps you could screw through the back and then add another "false" back? In other words, install a 3"-4" cleat at the top and bottom of the cabinet, screw through those into the wall, then slide in the false back over the cleats? Maybe you could rout some dados in front of the cleats. That way you could slide some 1/4" plywood (or whatever) up from the bottom and fasten with some headless pins into the cleats.

Have never tried this; just spitballin'...

You are in good company with that suggestion Jason - read post # 2, 4, & 5 :D. We all do it so I'm just funning' with ya'.

[Lee Schierer]

You can mount the cabinet with screws and then plug the holes with matching face grain plugs. If done carefully, the plugs will be all but invisible.

[Thomas Wilson]

Recessed screws with plugs. I use a plug cutter get a plug to match the grain.

[George Bokros]

Matt, what did you finally decide on this?

George

[Matt Meiser]

Nothing yet for sure. I'll probably work on it Friday. I did realize that even though I can't leave enough space to get my hand in above the cabinet, I do have some of those really nice, long Lee Valley hex extensions. If I leave an inch or so above, to be covered by crown, then I can probably drive screws through a top rail above the cabinet. Need to mock that up and see.

[Steve Jenkins]

If you can leave it down from the ceiling a bit, aluminum Z-Clips only need about 1/2 inch to drop in place and are only 1/4" thick

[Dave Zellers]

Can't you position the z-clips accurately and then slide the cabinet left to right to engage them?

[Jason White]

Oops! Guess I should read some of these before posting... :o


You are in good company with that suggestion Jason - read post # 2, 4, & 5 :D. We all do it so I'm just funning' with ya'.

[Jason Roehl]

Is the cabinet going to contain anything?

Since it's up against the ceiling, I'd put a screw rail across the back just above the level of the shelf, then screw through that, along with one at the bottom. Anything on the bottom or middle shelf will hide the screws. Of course, plugs wouldn't be much more effort, and would hide the screws to a much greater degree.

[Matt Meiser]

I think it is going to work to put screws in at the top, behind the crown. Here's the latest design.

[Matt Meiser]

This is what I did. The cleat on the back sticks up 1-9/16 which is how far the crown will stick up as well. The office has a drop ceiling so that corner is quite square. There's not enough room to push up the tiles more than about 2" so I can't really pull them out to access the cleat, but my long extension will drive some screws that I've already started easily. Then the crown can be installed and the upper screws will be hidden. I'm thinking of taking Jason's advise and just putting the lower row just above the bottom shelf, which means they'll be hidden behind the stuff on the shelf.

Hopefully I can hang it tomorrow.

276057

[Jim Matthews]

Will you just use a long extension for your drill/driver to reach?

The molding idea is simplest, and should look sharp.
This should be a sticky. (Post, I mean - it's a common problem.)

[Matt Meiser]

That worked out perfectly: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?210212-Some-shop-improvements&p=2187130#post2187130

Jim, got this this set from Lee Valley after watching my friend use one to drive screws under the toekick on one of my cabinets to hit the sill plate since it only it one stud: http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=65491&cat=1,180,42334&ap=1 My set just paid for itself.

[Dave Zellers]

Geeze, after all that, I can see a screw! :D

But on a more interesting note, I've never seen crown installed with the scotia at the top. Is this common where you are?

[Matt Meiser]

Yeah, but once I put the rest of the books up there... They'd be even more noticable sitting at the PC if I put them underneath. I do plan to hit them with a Sharpie.

I just installed it how it looked right to me--never thought about there being a top and bottom. Did the kitchen the same--now that you say it, I googled and guess it is upside down.

[Dave Zellers]

I was just kidding about the screw, I've read the entire thread and know that was your compromise and the stuff on the shelf will hide it.

Just thought it was funny to see it in the picture.

Yeah, scotia on the bottom, but hey, maybe it's time for a change.:)

[Dave Zellers]

Oh I forgot- it looks like those extension drivers can be ganged together to make a really long one, yes?

Could be very useful...

[Matt Meiser]

Sure can. My friend stacked the two longest ones. Only gotcha is they get a little bouncy on an impact kind of like the torque sticks the tire shop uses.