This hinge keeps breaking

[Michael W. Clark]

The hinge base plate keeps breaking as shown in the pictures below. This is on a lower, corner cabinet door at my parent's house. The hinges support two doors on the corner cabinet; the right panel door, and the left panel door that is connected to the right door with a piano hinge. There are only two hinges used and the doors are full height (~30", no drawer at the top). It probably needs three hinges or maybe two of better quality?

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I know it is a euro style hinge with 1/2" overlay, face frame mount. Does anyone recognize the mfg based on the marking on the top? Also, are most euro hinges be interchangable as long as you have a similar style? Looking to replace it with a Blum, Grass, or similar.

Any help is very much appreciated.
Mike

[Richard Coers]

I don't recognize that logo. I would suggest that you add some blocking behind the face frame to help support that winged adapter plate.

[Sam Murdoch]

Do you actually have more of those hinges to use? Cheap casting seems to be the problem. Adding more of those won't solve the problem. I would look into ordering the Blum version and if it fits without modifications - great, if not - make the modifications. I don't think your parents will mind if you need to fill the holes and rebore.

[Michael W. Clark]

Thanks Sam and Richard. We don't have anymore of those hinges. As long as the cup offset from the side of the door is the same, should be able to use the equivalent Blum, Grass, etc?

[Michael W. Clark]

The cabinets are relatively new (a few years old) and I don't want to rework the cup holes in the door. If the hinge mounting holes are different on the face frame, that's not a problem. Just to confirm, I am looking to upgrade these hinges, not trying to find exact replacements. If I can find out what I have, then if drawings are available, I should be able to determine what I need to change to a different mfg. I plan to fix it over the weekend and pick up the replacement hinges tomorrow.

To me, the critical dimension is the distance from the edge of the door to the edge (or center) of the cup hole. Any other variation, I should be able to deal with relatively easily. Are all euro hinges standardized on this dimension or other dimensions?

Edit: I will see if I can get a dimension of the cup hole. I'm not in town where I could measure the cabinets myself.

[Sam Murdoch]

I'm pretty sure that the cup holes will all be 35mm. That is the industry standard. I hesitate to say that a Blum will be a good replacement option because I don't have any experiencing mixing hinge brands. I only use Blum. You can of course check the Blum web site to get the specs on the specific hinge and what the range in mm - hole edge to door edge can be.

[Michael W. Clark]

I'm pretty sure that the cup holes will all be 35mm. That is the industry standard. I hesitate to say that a Blum will be a good replacement option because I don't have any experiencing mixing hinge brands. I only use Blum. You can of course check the Blum web site to get the specs on the specific hinge and what the range in mm - hole edge to door edge can be.

Thanks Sam, I'm pretty sure the cup diameter is 35mm. I'll see if I can get a measurement of cup hole location from the door edge. If that dimension works, I think I can make the Blum hinges work even if I need to fix holes in the face frame. (You know the hole spacing will only be off half a hole, not a full hole diameter:)) They break about 1 a year and it is always the bottom one.

[Mark Bolton]

No, all are not a standard dimension but you should be able to find a suitable replacement in one of the brands you mentioned. As you state, your critical dimensions are:
cup hole size
cup hole distance from door edge
cup mounting screw dimensions
door overlay

Here is a link to the common boring patterns
http://www.hafele.com/us/products/9164.asp

Richard is more than likely right in that the combined load of the two doors in a bi-fold situation is overwhelming the hinge mounting plate. Its likely nothing to do with cheap/low quality castings. Adding some blocking may help take away some of the racking thats breaking the ear off the plate.

[Alan Bienlein]

They are made by Vitus. You need some extra support between the plate and the side of the cabinet. Typically they have a third hole for a screw once you get everything adjusted.

If I'm not mistaken you can get them at Hardware Resources.

[Sam Murdoch]

If these base plates are hanging in the air except for the screws into the face frame then yes you need to back them up so that they are fully supported. If they are already fully supported and are breaking I would not buy another Vitus hinge.

Mark - to be clear, I was saying that the cup hole standard is 35mm. The spacing of the outside screw holes will vary, as the Hafele link clearly shows.

[Mark Bolton]

Mark - to be clear, I was saying that the cup hole standard is 35mm. The spacing of the outside screw holes will vary, as the Hafele link clearly shows.

Sam,
Absolutely in no way questioning your info, your replies are consistently solid as a rock. I hadnt seen your reply when I replied.

I think the issue is less support and more too much door. But it is what it is...

[Alan Bienlein]

I just reread your original post and we use this style plate all the time from Blum in the same application your talking about and to my knowledge have never had one break.

Our base corner cabinet doors are typically 12" wide by about 30" tall. There are two doors this size with one hinged off the other.

[Mark Bolton]

I just reread your original post and we use this style plate all the time from Blum in the same application your talking about and to my knowledge have never had one break.

Our base corner cabinet doors are typically 12" wide by about 30" tall. There are two doors this size with one hinged off the other.

Bi-fold applications are brutal on hinges. Its a less than desirable option. Anyone who has had bi-fold closet doors in a home rejoice the day they move into a home that up-grades away from them. The same rings true for cabinet doors but perhaps we are slow to catch on.

I avoid them at all possible costs. The usage and leverage is against you from the get go.

[Pat Barry]

You mention that they keep breaking. That is strange, not just a defective hinge. Its hard to believe that even a double door is heavy enough on the hinge to cause it to break like you have pictured. Are you sure 1) the door is adjusted to close properly and not binding up? 2) that someone isn't leaning on the door for support in order to reach something inside the cabinet. I have a habit of doing just this thing myself. You mention its your parents house. Are they having trouble bending down and need to hold on to the door for support?

[Michael W. Clark]

You mention that they keep breaking. That is strange, not just a defective hinge. Its hard to believe that even a double door is heavy enough on the hinge to cause it to break like you have pictured. Are you sure 1) the door is adjusted to close properly and not binding up? 2) that someone isn't leaning on the door for support in order to reach something inside the cabinet. I have a habit of doing just this thing myself. You mention its your parents house. Are they having trouble bending down and need to hold on to the door for support?

I haven't seen this particular one pictured, but on the others that have broken, the cast base does not look right. The inside looks very pourous, almost like a dried powder. I've worked in a foundry alot of my career, and I know this does not compare to ductile iron, but the casting just doesn't look right. I think there may be some quality issues, maybe the hinges came from a bad batch, not sure.

However, all of your points definitely have some validity and I am sure the door does serve as a prop or aid on some (or alot of) occasions. The cabinets were custom made by a local cabinet maker who also did the install. After the first hinge broke, he gave them several replacements at no charge. Now they have gone through them. I want to fix the problem instead of just replacing parts. So, you are probably correct, there may be more than normal stress on the hinge or bad alignment causing the problem.

Mike

[Michael W. Clark]

I just reread your original post and we use this style plate all the time from Blum in the same application your talking about and to my knowledge have never had one break.

Our base corner cabinet doors are typically 12" wide by about 30" tall. There are two doors this size with one hinged off the other.

Alan, that sounds very similar to this application and I hear mostly good things from people that use the Blum hardware. That is what is on our corner doors as well and they have been working well for over 6 years now.

Mike

[Michael W. Clark]

Richard, Mark, and Sam,
I think backing them up as you say is probably a good idea, especially when you couple this with all the other suggestions and experience with similar hinges.

I have some measurements of the hinge cup, spacing, and mounting screw locations. I'm going to stop by Woodcraft on my way down tomorrow to pick up a Blum equivalent and replace both hinges. I'm also going to take some precut blocks to glue in behind the frame. Hopefully, the Blum version they have in stock will have the back mounting hole that I can attach to the blocking. The current hinges don't have this hole, but blocking would probably limit their movement.

If this doesn't fix it, then back to the drawing board.

Mike

[Sam Murdoch]

If you can add a full height block to span the entire height of the face frame as well as support the hinge base plates you will get the best results. Glue that block in so that it is secure to the ff as well as to the cabinet side. Extra screws in the baseplate aren't so important - if the are backed up as described they will become part of the cabinet and will resist any stress that had lead to the other plates cracking. Those poor plates never stood a chance if they weren't fully supported. Surprise that the face frame stile didn't break too.

No matter -do add individual blocks -with glue. Better than nothing.

[Michael W. Clark]

If you can add a full height block to span the entire height of the face frame as well as support the hinge base plates you will get the best results. Glue that block in so that it is secure to the ff as well as to the cabinet side.

That's a good idea, I hadn't thought about doing a continuous filler and attaching it to both the carcass and FF. I can make a up a blank, then cut it to length once I get there.

Thanks,
Mike

[Lee Schierer]

The most common cause for breakage is someone leaning on the door when it is open. These hinges are made to support only the weight of the door. Pushing on them while you get something out of the cupboard or pushing on them as you stand up will break the hinges.

[Larry Edgerton]

I would be inclined to check the measurements of all hinges to make sure they are all mounted in the same place. If one hinge is working on a different plane than the others that hinge is going to see a lot more stress.

Larry

[peter gagliardi]

The problem you are having is due mainly to faulty hinge DESIGN. All of the hinges "torquing" is happening behind the fastening screws, thus fatigue, thus breaking! If you look at a good hinge- Blum, you will see that the locking ears are on the part of the plate fastened to the frame, thus reducing by quite a bit the torquing and flex that leads to breakage. I have thousands of Blum, and some Grass hinges in the field with no reported issues . And I rarely if ever, back up the rear of the wing with a backer block.

[Michael W. Clark]

Thanks all for all your input. I replaced both hinges with Blum hinges and installed blocking behind the hinges from top to bottom glued to the back of the frame and side of the cabinet. The bade plates had the third hole for installing a screw into the backer.

The old hinges were much lighter than the Blums. I could feel the difference when holding one in each hand. My parents really liked the fix and think it is "better than new". Thanks again for all your input.
Mike