Sketchup feedback desired

[Shawn Pixley]

In the ongoing debate about design software and techniques, I tend to land in the hand sketch camp. I supported my opinion about being able to iterate through multiple design motifs very quickly using a pencil and paper.

That said, others have suggested I try sketchup for design (as compared to drafting). So I recently downloaded sketchup 2013. The Pro version has an 8 hour free trial period before you are forced to chose between "Pro" and "Make." I now need to decide which way to go. I tried using it on a jewelry cabinet I will build for LOML. My question for others who know more about Sketchup is, "should I go to sketchup Pro or stay with the free "Make" version.

My observations for context:

1.) I design in a reductive process - define the basic mass, and refine down from there. (As opposed to build up from one board to the next. It worked okay here. I could define the basic cabinet masses and apply differing leg scheme to the mass.

2.) The functionality is enhanced in Sketchup by defining solid shapes (as opposed to wire frames where surfaces can be attached)

3.) I often work with curves in my style (I don't ever use others' plans or even follow an established style). Compound curves, irregular curves, and intersecting curves are not well enabled in Sketchup. For a particular leg scheme, I needed to develop a leg that was sloped tapered and had two faces of intersecting curves. I was eventually able to develop it as a wire frame. But I haven't yet gotten one of the curves to read as a surface. It took me longer to draw this in sketchup than it would have for me to fabricate a leg.

4.) Getting the design mass approved worked. Now I would need to completely re-draw to define the interior construction.

So what advice do others have in regards to the two versions of Sketchup? Which way do I go?

[Matt Day]

I think I had the pro version for the free period, and I don't notice the difference between it and the free version.
I don't know what I would do without it though! Great program.

[Thomas Wilson]

I have always been a sketch by hand person,too.

I recently got the free version of Sketchup and am learning to use it. I haven't found anything I need that the free version does not have. The pro version does have export capability in other drawing formats, not something I need but people migrating from some other software or who need to share work with people using other software need it.
TW

[Steve Milito]

The ability of having viewports and printing to scale are the only features that might encourage me to pay for the pro version. As a hobbyist I can get by without those features but if I had to communicate with other trades I would want everything to be printed to scale.

[Bob Falk]

A friend of mine used to teach Sketchup professionally and he told me that most people can manage with the free version. His suggestion was that it was best to learn on the free version and determine your needs, then move up to the Pro version if you can justify it.

[Dave Richards]

My question for others who know more about Sketchup is, "should I go to sketchup Pro or stay with the free "Make" version.

I'm a SketchUp Pro user and have been since long before there was a free version. I wouldn't go to the free version because I use many of the additional features that come with SketchUp Pro. That said, I would suggest that you stick with the free version for the time being. Get used to using it and make sure you need those additional features b


My observations for context:

1.) I design in a reductive process - define the basic mass, and refine down from there. (As opposed to build up from one board to the next. It worked okay here. I could define the basic cabinet masses and apply differing leg scheme to the mass.

You can work in either process depending on what you need from the resulting drawing. When I'm working on a proposal or just doodling out and idea I tend to do more massing models and add details. When I need to make detailed models, I will start by drawing one part and then the next, making components as I go. (I've demonstrated both of these on numerous occasions in the blog).


2.) The functionality is enhanced in Sketchup by defining solid shapes (as opposed to wire frames where surfaces can be attached)

This is different from typical CAD applications but SketchUp is a surface modeler after all.


3.) I often work with curves in my style (I don't ever use others' plans or even follow an established style). Compound curves, irregular curves, and intersecting curves are not well enabled in Sketchup. For a particular leg scheme, I needed to develop a leg that was sloped tapered and had two faces of intersecting curves. I was eventually able to develop it as a wire frame. But I haven't yet gotten one of the curves to read as a surface. It took me longer to draw this in sketchup than it would have for me to fabricate a leg.

I would disagree with you regarding compound and other curves. It sounds like your problems are just a lack of training. Curved surfaces aren't that difficult but you have to know how. That's pretty much like anything else.
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3755/9875819723_dcccb34f4e.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/8294157@N08/9875819723/)
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8538/8708920136_c23bbc87b4.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/8294157@N08/8708920136/)
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8387/8605287273_2d6e7cc7f8.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/8294157@N08/8605287273/)
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4012/4284864786_6e320fc9e7.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/8294157@N08/4284864786/)
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4115/4921293579_b75e5519da.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/8294157@N08/4921293579/)



4.) Getting the design mass approved worked. Now I would need to completely re-draw to define the interior construction.

Depending upon how you create your massing model, redrawing it to detail the interior, joinery and so on doesn't have to be that difficult. I find it rather quick to do.

The nice thing about SketchUp is that you can make a drawing that your client can easily understand and, once you've got approval, you can flesh out the model to add sufficient details to allow you to head out into the shop and get to cutting. There should be no surprises or need for head scratching once you get to doing the woodworking. The time invested in the drawing doesn't have to be that much but it can save you time in the shop.

Some folks prefer to work with pencil and paper and that's cool. Some people will advocate 2D CAD programs saying there's no need for 3D perspective views. That's cool for them, too. With SketchUp, though, it's a whole lot faster to orbit around the model to see it from another angle than to make a new drawing on paper or with the CAD file. Many people can't accurately read 2D elevation views and translate it into 3D.

Shawn, if you want to chat about this more or you'd like a hand really getting going with SketchUp, drop me a PM. I'll help.

[Sam Murdoch]

Free for me too, don't know what I'm missing :). No compromise so far.

And to give some more encouragement I refer you SketchUppers want-to-be (s) to this thread:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?209885-Learning-SketchUp-made-easy-and-affordable\

As you can see from the post above Dave Richards has a lot to teach us. Man I am jealous but can still aspire...

[Shawn Pixley]

Dave,

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. Your examples are very nice. It is clear I don't yet have an adequate background in Sketchup. I do love the rotating perspectives and the (mostly) easy modeling.

If it didn't come out, I'd be the first to confess that the lack of my ability to convert a wire frame to a surface is my lack of training. I also agree that as a drafting tool, it would be very helpful. My background is in Architecture, Art, Chemistry, and Math (only the Architecture is relevant here). Thanks for your advice. I may reach out for your help on the leg modelling.

What additional features (other than inputing / outputing to other formats and the scaled drawings) do you find essential in Sketchup Pro?

[Shawn Pixley]

Thank you all! I appreciate the advice and feedback.

[Shawn Pixley]

Dave,

Thanks again! I just purchased your guide from Amazon.

[Dave Richards]

Dave,
What additional features (other than inputing / outputing to other formats and the scaled drawings) do you find essential in Sketchup Pro?

Shawn, one of the key things I wouldn't be without is LayOut--the presentation portion of SketchUp pro--which is where the scaled drawings come in. I use LayOut to create proposal docs, full size patterns for templates and fully detailed plans. I also like the Solid Tools for some things. Import and export in other formats such as CAD formats comes in handy, too. Especially since there are a lot of resources available in those formats. For example, the legs under this seamstress's cutting table started as a DXF file import. I could have drawn this leg without using the DXF file but it was faster to use it and I got an accurate representation of the leg so the client knew what they were getting.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8350/8212731255_1ed052213f.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/8294157@N08/8212731255/)

Although not really a necessity, I also like Style Builder and use it frequently. In fact I just published a set of seventeen new sketchy line styles last night.

Edit: I hope you enjoy the DVD, Shawn. Thanks to Sam.

[Bob Lang]

I'm late to the discussion, but I usually advise people to stick with the free version until they have a real need for the pro version. The biggest differences between the two are the inclusion of Layout with Pro, the ability to import or export vector graphics (usable formats for AutoCAD or Adobe Illustrator and similar programs) and the solid modeling tools. The solid modeling tools allow you to take geometry on one part (such as dovetails) and create the matching part with a few clicks of the mouse. That kind of thing is also possible in the free version, but there are a few more hoops to jump through.

Working with curves is mostly a matter of being able to visualize what the curve is made of. Generally you need to add or subtract two or more shapes to get what you're after. When you learn how to intersect curved shapes you can accomplish in minutes what would otherwise take hours, days or weeks.

One of the problems with SketchUp is that people can get a long way without completely understanding the basics of how to get around in the 3D modeling space, the nature of things in SketchUp, and what your options are. If you start off practicing inefficient methods, modeling takes too long and the results aren't that valuable. Most of the people in my classes struggle with the same issues, and I've learned to tailor my teaching to dealing with those issues. When people really get a handle on what they are seeing and what happens when they click on things and use certain tools, amazing work can be accomplished. The best part is that a good model contains everything you need to know about all the parts of a project.

I use the Pro version, but mainly for the ability to export to Illustrator and CAD. If I didn't have those available, I would be more experienced in using Layout for presentation. I also use the solid modeling tools on a regular basis, but a large part of my SketchUp use is preparing detailed illustrations for magazine articles and books. For the average hobbyist woodworker, SketchUp is by far the best design, planning and problem solving tool around. The biggest investment with either version is time spent practicing. Once you get the hang of it, it saves an unbelievable amount of time and headaches.

Bob Lang

[Keith Hankins]

I'm a sketchup-pro user now, but not in the beginning. It does take a learning curve but once you grasp the basic components you will progress easily. For me the jump was for the layout benefits. I make a lot of things from templates. Printing in the freebie is a nightmare for doing scaled printouts. I do my drawings to scale and can print the parts 2d with ref markers. I then spraytac to hardboard to cut the final versions out. Works great! I had a friend who i would send my files to and they would do the layout for m. Now I did convert to pro before the last release, so if there are any other losses due to the the change I'm now aware of it. If you are an educator, or have a child in school, you can get a reduced price or free license. Students are at a greatly reduced price and teachers are free.

PS. Add-ins are great! Best one I found is Cutlist addin!