Chinese grinders and American bushings

[Max Withers]

I gave up looking for a deal on a decent bench grinder, and bought a $40 Ryobi from the big box and a tool rest and Norton wheel from Lee Valley. The Ryobi worked fine out of the box, it gets really hot with no load, and the tool rests are just stupefyingly useless, but it has negligible runout or vibration.

I went to put the LV/Norton wheel on today and it was looser than a (insert obscene metaphor). Of course, I assumed the allegedly 1/2" Chinese arbor was out of spec, but Messrs. Brown and Sharpe say it is dead on, while the Made in USA by Norton exclusively for LV bushing is .615" ID.

Not blaming anyone, but you know what they say about assumptions...

Anyway, do I have to laboriously track down a 1" to 1/2" bushing, or order something from McMaster-Carr, or can I just shim the bushing with a couple layers of duct tape or something? If I do have to buy something, does the material matter? (E.g., Delrin, ABS, steel....) I just need to get it centered until flanges clap down on it, right? My normal inclination is to hack away at stuff like this with materials at hand (duct tape!), but I don't have a lot of experience with bench grinders and I don't want to blow up a wheel in my face at 3600 RPM.

[Winton Applegate]

And this is why one can't get by without a metal lathe.
Or a good local hardware store.
Since all my favorite mom and pop hardware stores are gone see my first option.


gets really hot with no load
ha, ha, ha I have never heard of such a thing. At least you will be able to toast weenies and marshmallows.

[Jim Koepke]

I gave up looking for a deal on a decent bench grinder, and bought a $40 Ryobi from the big box and a tool rest and Norton wheel from Lee Valley.

... the Made in USA by Norton exclusively for LV bushing is .615" ID.

Anyway, do I have to laboriously track down a 1" to 1/2" bushing

Have you tried calling LV?

That would be my first step if they supplied you with a bushing that was supposed to sit on a 1/2" arbor for a wheel with a 1" mount.

Sometimes bad parts get past the QA department if they are doing statistical QC analysis.

jtk

[Tony Zaffuto]

I gave up looking for a deal on a decent bench grinder, and bought a $40 Ryobi from the big box and a tool rest and Norton wheel from Lee Valley. The Ryobi worked fine out of the box, it gets really hot with no load, and the tool rests are just stupefyingly useless, but it has negligible runout or vibration.

I went to put the LV/Norton wheel on today and it was looser than a (insert obscene metaphor). Of course, I assumed the allegedly 1/2" Chinese arbor was out of spec, but Messrs. Brown and Sharpe say it is dead on, while the Made in USA by Norton exclusively for LV bushing is .615" ID.

Not blaming anyone, but you know what they say about assumptions...

Anyway, do I have to laboriously track down a 1" to 1/2" bushing, or order something from McMaster-Carr, or can I just shim the bushing with a couple layers of duct tape or something? If I do have to buy something, does the material matter? (E.g., Delrin, ABS, steel....) I just need to get it centered until flanges clap down on it, right? My normal inclination is to hack away at stuff like this with materials at hand (duct tape!), but I don't have a lot of experience with bench grinders and I don't want to blow up a wheel in my face at 3600 RPM.

Amazon has any size bushing you would want. You can do a search on bushing, bearing. One manufacturer's name is "Bunting". Prices are cheap.

[Jonathan McCullough]

0.615" is ten thou off 5/8", which is 1/8" off of 1/2". The grinding wheel I got came with a number of concentric plastic bushings to adapt a 3/4" arbor hole down to about 3/8". There ought to be something available at the hardware store; it's not the first time this has happened. Some of them have "special parts" drawers in the hardware section with oilite bearings (one of which might work) and all sorts of other doodads. Go down and look around for and old guy with white hair. Probably named "Gus" or "Buddy." Tell them I sent you. Gus is highly opinionated, talks a lot of $h*t, can't find his &$$ with both hands, makes vaguely inappropriate jokes about demographics to which he does not personally belong, or about "taking your money" (heh heh heh), and will probably try to send you off with an ineffectual substitute for a highly toxic substance that didn't work in the first place when it was available fifty years ago. Like the plutonium in his childhood chemistry set. For which he nurses a grievance against the government. Buddy on the other hand scarcely says anything, has been anticipating you Yoda-like, and will noiselessly take you to the row, aisle, bin, and organizer tray that contains the exact and only 30-cent part you need.

[george wilson]

First of all,never buy anything made by Ryoba. They make junk,junk,junk. If you need a special bushing made,and can measure the shaft on the grinder to.001.",even with a Harbor Freight caliper,I can make you a bushing and send it to you. But,I HAVE to know the real diameter of the grinder shaft in case it's metric and is an odd ball size.

Never try shimming something with duct tape. If you MUST,at least use paper,or cut strips of shim out of aluminum cans. Duct tape is too squishy to make a decent shim.

PM me for help so I'll be sure to see the message. I might forget to look at this thread again.

[Daniel Rode]

First of all,never buy anything made by Ryoba. They make junk,junk,junk.

I think that's a gross generalization. I have several Ryobi tools and several others of similar quality from Harbor Freight. The idea that one should only buy the highest quality tools great advice if you are a premium tool maker. It may not be the best advice if one is a hobbyist woodworker. I buy some high quality tools, some used tools and some inexpensive tools with marginal quality. Often the lower quality tools require more time and effort to setup or do not have the same longevity as a premium brand. As a hobbiest, these are acceptable tradeoffs for me and don't affect the quality of my work. In other instances, only a quality tool will produce quality results.

As for a grinder, it needs to spin a wheel at something close to the advertised speed. That's pretty much it's whole job. In my shop, it would not likely run more than a couple of hours per year. The OP addresses the two issue I would have with a cheap grinder by buying a quality wheel and tool rest.

Assuming the correct bushing can be located, I'd suspect the Ryobi grinder will work effectively for many years. One could buy a very expensive grinder and not be improved in any way by the extra layout of cash.

[george wilson]

It is an observation based upon experience with Ryobi products. The OP's grinder is overheating with NO LOAD. How long will it be before it burns out? Grinders tend to get fairly regular use. That overheating means minimal wiring in the motor. Useless tool rests too. I'm not suggesting you buy the most expensive tools out there. Just don't buy Ryobi. My opinion,of course,but I am a retired professional with many years experience. I have some HF stuff,like everyone does. But,it's a grab bag whether or not it will have durability. You get what you pay for. I buy HF ceramic kitchen knives. The last 1 1/2" near the tip is a flat spot cutting edge!! The bevels don't come together. Shaving sharp further towards the handle. However,I have diamond grinders,and the where with all to correct this problem. For $9.00 I'll take the HF rather than buy an expensive knife made of the same ceramic,but properly sharpened. Your average hobbiest isn't going to have the capability that I have to correct this problem. I have an el cheap mucho Grizzly small nail driver. I only needed it to replace the missing quarter round moldings in the house. Not for daily,professional use. It did the job just fine,and that was all I needed. I have to gauge what I will buy with how much I'll use it. But,a grinder that overheats BADLY with no load is not a good bet. And,you DO need decent tool rests. I'm still using my 1960's flat face Craftsman bench grinders. They were cheaper tools at the time,but still built before standards went completely into the can. THey have very good tool rests that are double jointed and can go into many positions. I love them. They are made of steel,too. Not some alloy that will get imbedded with grit,and have very limited adjustability. No overheating at all,either.

[glenn bradley]

Even if the wheel fit perfectly, you will still need to balance and true it. I would wrap some foil tape or whatever stable material you have around the shaft to keep things put, slide the wheel on and continue your setup. JMHO.

[Chris Griggs]

If you MUST,at least use paper,or cut strips of shim out of aluminum cans."


George you always seem to post useful info just when I need it! I need to shim the riser block for my bandsaw and have been trying to think of something better then paper or tape that is still thin that it will let me dial things in. I like the aluminum can idea. I can't believe that didn't occur to me! I have lots of those, and given that its Friday should have several more empty ones tomorrow morning :). I love that you hang out with us amateurs George. Thanks for the tip.

Sorry for the hijack Max. Just wanted to mention that I thought the cans was a great tip.

BTW, for anyone looking for a great entry level grinder with usable (albeit not great) rests this is the one to get: http://www.lowes.com/pd_78808-46069-PCB525BG_4294702874__?productId=3162491&Ntt=grinder&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Dgrinder&facetInfo=

I've linked to it in other bench grinder threads several times, but I figure it doesn't hurt to mention it again, since there are always newbs lurking out there perhaps looking for their first grinder.

[Peter Gavin]

Any hardware store will have the bushing you need. Bronze would be the material I would chose.

Peter

[george wilson]

I always make my bushings out of brass or bronze. They don't get rusted onto the shaft from quenching with water, coolant, etc..

[Jonathan McCullough]

Hey George, riddle me this, and I realize you're not an engineer, but have you noticed that the newer electric motors are lighter and seem weaker, and that the ball bearings they employ don't seem to keep the armature spinning as long? I go to a flea market on a regular basis and have picked up a couple of Baldors as well as a Craftsman flat-front grinder on your advice. They're excellent and take about three minutes to stop spinning once you turn them off. The RI or split-phase motors you see on equipment today seems really inferior, under-rated, maybe with poorly machined or misaligned bearing cups? I don't think the ball bearings they use are worse than from forty years ago; if anything they're probably better. The universal motors seem to get hot very quick.

[george wilson]

My old Craftsman grinders ARE split phase! Just made heavier. But,no argument from me that the newer motors are lighter. Manufacturers seem to keep pushing the limits of how thin their wires can be in their motors(The same as how much undersize lumber and plywood can be made).

I suppose the lighter motors don't have the inertia to keep running longer after switched off. That's why they stop sooner,probably.

I am still using my 1963 Craftsman drill press. Just last year,the motor pooped out!! And,it was a cheap looking motor at that,with a wrapped thick sheet metal housing. Die cast end bells. I found another old motor to replace it with,sadly. I might take it open to see what is wrong. It didn't actually let the magic smoke out. Might just be that the thrust bearing beneath the shaft wore out. It is a vertical mount motor.

That old drill press has seen a lot of use,too. Abuse as well. With the original hi-lo speed attachment I wisely bought when they were still available,I can get 10,000 RPM for routing. (Cost $15.00 at the time,IIRC.)Don't do that much routing any more,except with a very small bit to help waste away cavities for pearl inlay in ebony fingerboards for guitars. It will go VERY slow,too. Quite valuable for drilling large holes in steel. Many of the "heavy duty" drill presses these days do not go slow enough to drill the size holes in steel that they CLAIM to drill. At the not so slow speeds they do,they'd quickly burn the corners right off a HSS drill bit.

I think it is such a violation of common sense that some shop vacs are stated to be SIX and a HALF H.P.!! Yeah,and they still run on 15 amps,110 volts. Well,the rule for 220 volt motors is 3 amps per H.P.. That would be 6 amps per H.P. @ 110V. So,we're sucking nearly 40 amps out of a 15 amp circuit. And,they have 1/4" shafts on the motors.

I wish the gov't. would put a stop to that kind of false advertising. But,they don't seem to notice.

[David Weaver]

I'm sure the ryobi grinder is a different one than I have, when I got mine, it was $40 and had two piece rests, and a healthy dose of vibration. I have to admit, though, that it always worked and still does. I'd use the cheap grinder, just ignore the fact that it gets hot (even the baldors get pretty warm if you leave them running for a while - there's nowhere for the heat to go).

Anyway, if the grinder needs decent rests, figure out how to get them on it, but just use it until it drops.

Most tools now are junk. I have a Rigid cordless drill that was supposed to be a decent piece of gear, but after a couple of years of very light use, it stops mid cut and you have to give it a second and start again. Any significant load on it stops it. I ended up replacing it with a ryobi combo that was $99 with two lithium batteries, a drill and an impact driver, and I have to admit that the quality of it seems every bit as good as the ridgid. It'll have to break right away to be any less durable.

My only other ryobi tool is a cheap hammer drill that I've used to drill into the floors, walls, steps outside and through refractory brick and I have to admit it's stood up pretty well for a 1/2" hammer drill that was $59.

It seems there is no real progression of quality any longer, it's either junk or it's great, but most of the mid priced stuff is also junk, but priced between junk and good. I'd use the grinder until it drops, it may never actually quit.

[george wilson]

But,David,if the grinder already gets overheated under NO load,how long before it drops? What if he has to put it under a massive load,like sharpening the end of a small screwdriver????:)

[Chris Griggs]

My only other ryobi tool is a cheap hammer drill that I've used to drill into the floors, walls, steps outside and through refractory brick and I have to admit it's stood up pretty well for a 1/2" hammer drill that was $59.
.

David, your drill press is a Ryobi isn't it. Nearly the same as the one I just bought used. Honestly, I wasn't expecting much from mine, but I must say that it seems like a solid piece of equipment. I got mine for $50, so I'm very pleasantly surprised. I think its like 10 years old, and seems to be running strong.

I've read good things about several of the larger Ryobi tools (like there little work site table saw)...I wonder for whatever reason there larger tools (or the factory they are made in) is/are higher quality than some of their others? OR maybe we just got lucky...like a lot of inexpensive tools, maybe its one of those things where if your lucky enough to get a good one it can be a great deal, but whether or not you actually do get a good one can often be a 50/50 crap shoot...maybe?

[David Weaver]

Oh yeah, I forgot about it. The DP is fine. It's a good price point for me because the grinder flings abrasive into the back of it :)

In japan, ryobi is not (or at least wasn't for a time) a junk name. Quite some time ago, ryobi used to be a good name here, too. A buddy of mine has a big 15 amp ryobi router, and when I first started WW he said "that's a top shelf router", and I said "yeah right", but I looked it over and it looks like anything else made in japan - it's pretty decent, plunges smooth, and everything is tight on it. I think he said it was almost 300 bucks more than 15 years ago.

Presume that it's just an issue of a tool conglomeration needing a name to dilute and position over here.

[Bob Strawn]

I gave up looking for a deal on a decent bench grinder, and bought a $40 Ryobi from the big box and a tool rest and Norton wheel from Lee Valley. The Ryobi worked fine out of the box, it gets really hot with no load, and the tool rests are just stupefyingly useless, but it has negligible runout or vibration.


The right grinder will do well for you. A small grinder is a tool perfect for destroying temper, your temper and your metals temper. It may be more footprint and price than you want to invest in, but if you are working tool steel on a regular basis the best price I have found for a satisfactory grinder is the Grizzly G1015 (http://www.grizzly.com/products/Knife-Belt-Sander-Buffer/G1015). If you invest in one of these, ignore lesser belts and go for ceramic. Best bang for the buck would be to obtain a range of 2" x 72" Ceramic Belts from SuperGrit. (http://www.supergrit.com/products/products_belts-ceramic.asp)

Bob

[george wilson]

That belt grinder would be better if you made an enclosed belt guard for it. Otherwise the wheels are going to fan metal and abrasive dust right up your nose. My Wilton Square Wheel belt grinder,ugly as it is,has a heavy sheet steel enclosure. I have a big scoop with a 4" hose right below the tool rest. Dedicated powerful dust collector(for metal only!!)

[Max Withers]

Well, I already know how to sharpen tools on a belt grinder:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKzZ6-dQ2C0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKzZ6-dQ2C0)

Just kidding, that was a special link for David.

There are many issues to address here. First, I found a nylon "spacer" at the last local hardware store that is still a hardware store, although they have more floorspace devoted to Thanksgiving decorations than actual hardware. Runs like a top after brief application of a diamond wheel dresser. (Apply diamond to a type H wheel at 3600 RPM if you want to know what friable means).

George, I totally agree with you, in general. And believe me I have gone through these archives and others looking for advice, particularly yours. But after a couple months I could find no old Craftsmans, or anything comparable, and only really beat up 3 PH Baldors for $200+. That's too rich for my blood, especially with 2 new wheels. I looked at supposedly (formerly) decent brands like Dewalt and the Porter-Cable Chris recommended, but it is hard to justify double the cost (of the Ryobi) while still made in China and obviously requiring new wheels and tool rests. So I decided to buy the cheapest grinder I could, and spring for a Norton wheel and Veritas tool rest.

[I just want to say here that I have no problem with products made in China per se, but the quality is so variable that formerly reliable brands like P-C -- and Ryobi too, I remember! -- are no longer useful as indicators of quality. And outsourcing to China still indicates a preoccupation with price rather than quality.]

Now I just have to make a plinth so the grinder's high enough to work with the Veritas tool rest. And cut off the the tool rest bracket, which is in the way. Guess I need to pick up an angle grinder at HF....

Oh, I should also add that overheating under "no load" was maybe an overstatement. I spent about 15 minutes grinding a new bevel on a hewing axe, very slowly, and with little pressure, and it got pretty hot, but it wasn't "no load" either.

I trust someone will tell me if that nylon spacer is going to melt and blind me.

[Winton Applegate]

I have some HF stuff,like everyone does
Hey now don't include me in this madness. :)
I walked into an HF store once, when they first opened a store in my home town.
Never went back. Didn't buy anything while I was there. Depressing lot that. Maybe they have changed but your original post covers Hf
Junk, junk, junk

Come to think of it I set a personal record that day; SWMBO would have given me a klondike bar had she known . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qalOYQrgxqQ
. . . the only instance of me leaving a tool store without buying something. Of course I would probably be disqualified by the official USA governing body of Tool Turkeys on a technicality, HF isn't a real tool store. More like a wax museum or Disney tool store.

[Jim Koepke]

I have some HF stuff,like everyone does.

I am with Winton on this one. The closest I come is some Morse Taper centers and a face plate for my lathe from Grizzly.

jtk

[Mike Leung]

I just received a woodcraft slow speed grinder myself and what a POS it is. The wheels were wobbling like crazy so I took them off to inspect. The bushings are way too loose on the shaft so I ordered new ones for $5 from Amazon this morning. http://www.amazon.com/Forney-72396-Reducing-Adapters-Grinding/dp/B003X4330O

I also noticed that the flanged washers were not seated tight on the shaft either and since the shafts are 5/8" on mine, I put on a spare flange from my tablesaw. It got rid of some slop right away because my machined flange is now concentric to the shaft. The wheel I tested spins better already. With the forney bushings, the wheels should be ready to be trued and balanced. I can't believe woodcraft would sell grinders with bushings and flanges so out of spec. Check out the difference in my pics.

275582

[Winton Applegate]

Melt and blind me.
If the axle of the grinder gets hot.
I have a narrow belt sander, that I bought at a "REAL" machine tool supplier in Denver when I bought my metal lathe and because it has very small diameter pulleys and thickish belts after a bunch of sanding on steel parts it will get so hot on the pulleys that the bearings will begin to bind !
Yah, it's crap. I spent over a hundred dollars for it back when a hundred dollars was about a third of my rent for a down town home with a yard so I did not feel like I was buying cheep stuff.
PS: still works though after all these years. More of a design problem than poor materials. Just needs a light weight flexible belt and pulleys to fit it. Maybe some day I will put one of those red link belts on it but seems like I decided against that already for some reason.

[Winton Applegate]

Ouch !
As I always say : "Every tool we buy is merely a blank; take it home and make something useful out of it". (except Veritas planes; they are the rare exception)

Although it is ok for the side plates to be a bit loose as long as the bushings inside the hole in the stone fit snug and the stone is sound and capable of running right. On the slow speed grinder at least. Weight close to the axle isn't going to be a problem if a bit off center.

Hard to tell from the photo if the sheet metal side plate is bent or if the hole in the middle is just overly large and the plate is keeled over until the stone is put in place and then it will upright.

[george wilson]

O.K.: Here is what I bought at H.F.; Some acid brushes,some of which are defective,but mostly o.k. for spreading glue. They are not as wide as I'd really like. Some tongue depressors for sort of the same purpose. Not to use on MY tongue!:) A ball of rather Earthy looking twine,which looks 18th. C.. Might be useful in some restoration job on a textile antique. 2 ceramic kitchen knives that are very sharp,except the bevels part company for the last 1 1/2" near the tips(I looked through them all). I have corrected the grinding on a 1200 grit horizontal grinding disc. Plenty sharp enough for food. My wife bought a $100.00 fancy ceramic knife as a gift for a chef. The first thing he did was break the blade off! This knife seems to be made of exactly the same material as the expensive ones. Good enough for attacking a cucumber. A flat file rather coarser than I'd wish,simply to test for hardness Vs the Mexican Nicholsons that I can easily file 1/32" deep,way past the tooth depth. The HF file was at least fully hardened. I still use it though it is not as nice as I'd like. It does cut. I wrote a review of it for general consumption here. Not to recommend you all run out and buy HF files. I wish they offered finer cut ones individually. Maybe I should try a Kobalt from Lowes? I hate those hexagonal tangs,though. Forces you to use their handles.

Now,if you can really find fault with these type purchases,let fly by all means!!:):):)

[Max Withers]

Ha George, I'm going to report you to the historical twine compliance department. My best HF purchase was a 1/2 inch hammer drill for $20. Cost about the same as a box of tapcons. Worked perfectly for the three screws I needed, and I haven't used it since.

I have one of those expensive ceramic knives (a gift) and it does hold an edge, but it is a poor material for a knife. Steel's malleability is as important as its hardness for this application.

[David Weaver]

I just received a woodcraft slow speed grinder myself and what a POS it is. The wheels were wobbling like crazy so I took them off to inspect. The bushings are way too loose on the shaft so I ordered new ones for $5 from Amazon this morning. http://www.amazon.com/Forney-72396-Reducing-Adapters-Grinding/dp/B003X4330O

I also noticed that the flanged washers were not seated tight on the shaft either and since the shafts are 5/8" on mine, I put on a spare flange from my tablesaw. It got rid of some slop right away because my machined flange is now concentric to the shaft. The wheel I tested spins better already. With the forney bushings, the wheels should be ready to be trued and balanced. I can't believe woodcraft would sell grinders with bushings and flanges so out of spec. Check out the difference in my pics.

275582

Those are similar to what comes on baldor grinders, too. And the stock wheels on the baldor grinders aren't as good as the stock wheels that come on the woodcraft SS grinder.

[george wilson]

Ceramic holds an edge longer than steel. but,ceramic is not for cutting bones and must not be twisted at all. Just use it for soft meat,tomatoes,cucumbers and the like. No clacking on plates,either. They WILL damage the plate as well as fracture their cutting edges.

I'll tell you what ought to be BANNED: Steel knives with ceramic coating. I bought a few of these at Woodcraft without handles. The ceramic does not stick well to the steel underneath. The ceramic coating is exceedingly thin,and chips off. You are going to EAT those razor sharp ceramic shards. As soon as I saw that a chip was missing from one of those knives,I immediately retired them. At a friend's house,I saw they had one of those knives and 1/4" of ceramic was missing all along the edge. They didn't know any better,either. I wonder how many shards they had ingested to cut their intestines? I see no need to ceramic coat steel. Just buy the pure ceramic blades and don't twist or hack with them. Keep an eye on the edge to make sure no little chunks are missing. People should not even be allowed access to ceramic knives if they have no idea how to use them safely.

[george wilson]

Mike,those flanges are a shame. Woodcraft is definitely not what it used to be. I have hated for several years some of the cheap Chinese junk they now sell. Especially stuff like their needle files and rifflers. Whoever is buying their stuff ought to be replaced with someone who knows what they are doing.

[Jim Koepke]

I see no need to ceramic coat steel. Just buy the pure ceramic blades and don't twist or hack with them. Keep an eye on the edge to make sure no little chunks are missing. People should not even be allowed access to ceramic knives if they have no idea how to use them safely.

Thanks George, this gives me all I need to know about why I will never own a ceramic knife. They could likely work for me, but I do not intend to tell my wife what she is doing wrong while she has a knife in her hands. There could be a lot of twisting and hacking if I tried. :eek:



Mike,those flanges are a shame. Woodcraft is definitely not what it used to be. I have hated for several years some of the cheap Chinese junk they now sell. Especially stuff like their needle files and rifflers. Whoever is buying their stuff ought to be replaced with someone who knows what they are doing.

With every CEO in America trying to squeeze every penny of profit out of their product it is only natural for the "race to the bottom" to end up with the consumer only being able to find junk on the shelves.

Of course consumers looking for the lowest prices helped to bring this upon us. Not to mention consumers who feel it is fully within their best interest to buy something they fully intend to use and then return for a full refund when they are done.

I have worked with people who couldn't tell the difference between good quality and something that was just a shiny piece of junk.

- time to get off the soap box...

jtk

[glenn bradley]

Well, I already know how to sharpen tools on a belt grinder:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKzZ6-dQ2C0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKzZ6-dQ2C0)

Oh my gosh! I blew coffee all over the monitor. Thanks for that, I need a good belly laugh this morning.

[george wilson]

I mean the STEEL knives with ceramic coatings are dangerous. BUT,if you MUST twist and hack with a knife,by all means use a steel one!! When I'm using my ceramic knife,I can't help feeling like we've
come full circle and gone back to the stone age. A sophisticated stone,but still a stone!!:)

[george wilson]

Is that fool SERIOUS???(I mean the video).

[Jim Koepke]

Well, I already know how to sharpen tools on a belt grinder:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKzZ6-dQ2C0

So are this guy and Paul Sellers trying to see who can make the dullest tools slice wood?

Jim Howard looks like the kind of guy that might hurt himself with a sharp chisel.

It could only be funnier if he tried to use the ruler trick with his set up.

jtk

[george wilson]

Howard reminds me of this klutz we had in college. I was the ONLY fresh out of high school person in the rather small group of Industrial Arts students. The program was new the first year at Wm & Mary in Norfolk. All the other students were retired Navy guys gong on the G.I. bill,to spend the last of their careers teaching shop. Jackson was always in trouble. He acted like this Howard guy. He told one guy to sand ACROSS the grain on his blanket chest project because the sand paper would cut faster. The poor guy making the chest was so dumb,he inlaid a rather large block of wood with the grain sideways to the grain of the chest(to cover a knot). We all stood around and looked at it after he was done!! The guy gave up and resigned!

Jackson was drilling something and managed to get the teacher's new drill press vise slung across the shop!! We were installing a new blade on the large paper cutter,when there was a loud crunch. Jackson had got his thumb caught on its side while the top parts of the paper cutter were being lowered over the blade. It nearly severed the side of his thumb!! This was on the TOP side of the blade where the top was 90º to the sides. Very loud crunch,and several loud WHOA's !!!!! out of Jackson.There must have been 6 guys doing stuff to that paper cutter at once,which was 4 too many! Jackson was always in trouble,and had several smaller injuries during the course.

Sharpening a chisel this way was exactly something Jackson would have done.:)

I guess Howard thought burning the metal blue was o.k.,as long as he ground the blue OFF afterwards! WHY do idiots put up these videos? They are so stupid they think they are smart,I believe.

[Jim Koepke]

WHY do idiots put up these videos? They are so stupid they think they are smart,I believe.

That nails it George.

Stupid is as stupid does. Sadly stupid people are to darn stupid to know they are stupid.

It takes smarts to recognize stupid.

BTW, I also noticed the metal bluing and just shook my head.

jtk

[Mike Leung]

Mike,those flanges are a shame. Woodcraft is definitely not what it used to be. I have hated for several years some of the cheap Chinese junk they now sell. Especially stuff like their needle files and rifflers. Whoever is buying their stuff ought to be replaced with someone who knows what they are doing.

I forgot to mention one thing about the woodcraft flanges and the shafts. The shafts are narrower next to the collar and the flange just happens to fall into that channel and wobble about. Is making the correct size bushings and flanges that are concentric going to cost that much more at the factory? It is just a waste of materials IMHO. I agree about the buyer. Grinders for woodworkers should be more refined than general use bench grinders. Maybe I am expecting too much from WoodCraft.

[Mike Leung]

Those are similar to what comes on baldor grinders, too. And the stock wheels on the baldor grinders aren't as good as the stock wheels that come on the woodcraft SS grinder.
Good to know. Maybe I am on the right track with the upgraded parts I am using.

[David Weaver]

I don't think I was clear about that, the pressed flanges (they may be cast white metal or something on the baldor) are similar to what comes on the baldor - for what the baldor is, they are surprising very very low quality flanges. I'm not surprised baldor stocks junk wheels, because they probably figure that most buyers will have something specific in mind, but I was surprised how bad the flanges were. They didn't contact the wheel all the way around because the contact surface is not coplanar. I ended up adding on a one-way system, which is something you don't expect to do on a grinder that expensive, and addition of the system requires you to not use the cast outside guards that enclose the wheel.

[Winton Applegate]

Now,if you can really find fault with these type purchases,let fly by all means

George,
ha,ha,
my responce is the title of a book I saw once but didn't buy.
Don't vote, it only encourages the bastards
Don't buy it only . . .

[george wilson]

Like winton said: These problems are reasons you can't afford to not have a lathe!!

[Winton Applegate]

might hurt himself

I am just glad he didn't try to stick the chisel straight down into the belt like he said he was going to.
The belt might have grabbed it and flung it against his wood stove and ricocheted it into his fore head.

I swear the first quarter inch of the chisel looked red hot while he held 'er down good and firm on the (dull belt) for like five minutes.
When he put the gloves on I was waiting for those to get tangled in the works but probably has happened so many times he has learned how to keep them out of the works. Most of the time. Snaggy knit gloves and rotary power tools . . . nah dude nah.

What was that cutting angle ? About 10° wasn't it ? I been going way too wide.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I may be mis-remembering this, but I vaguely remember seeing another video on youtube where a fellow was sharpening chisels or gouges or something on the sides of the grinder wheel - something I've always been taught not to do - certainly not with as much pressure as he appeared to be doing - but the clincher was when he then finished sharpening them on the top of the wheel (the grinder had no guards or shields), whilst reaching over the whole apparatus. He was holding the chisel sort of the opposite direction one would hold it if you where using the tool rests on a grinder, and standing right in front of it. Had he lost his grip (which would seem easy the way he was holding the tool) it would have flung that thing edge-first straight into the tender bits!

[Winton Applegate]

George,
Take a close look at that part of the grinder shaft where it comes out of the bearing/housing.

That does not look right. There isn't a proper shoulder for the said washer / flange to seat against and the shaft looks like they did kind of a high speed travel roughing pass with a pointed threading tool rather than the correct roughing tool bit and then didn't take a finishing cut with the correct finishing tool bit using slower travel.

That can't be THREADS I am seeing. They are so fine and too shallow.
What is that ?
Aren't the bearings going to be just press fit sealed cartridge bearings that slide onto a smooth shaft ? No "threads" needed on that part of the shaft.

Like this here :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Cfh3LAoHCQ

PS:
managed to get the teacher's new drill press vise slung across the shop!!
Oh that's good. Ha !
Did you have to wear chain mail to survive being in the same class with him ?
Maybe a shield on one forearm for the big in coming.

[Winton Applegate]

Is making the correct size bushings and flanges that are concentric going to cost that much more at the factory? It is just a waste of materials IMHO.

I think it boils down to this :
The person drawing the plans (CAD) needs to be able to communicate with the people setting up the CAM (as in CAD/CAM) and know when everything is right.
That takes a kid that went to the junk yard with Dad and got stuff and hauled it home and took it apart just to take it apart for the heck of it and maybe later cobbled some stuff together out back in the barn or shed; say a mini bike or some such.

Playing video games
(instead of time spent in the shed with the hammer and crowbar and welding machine / what have you.)

Cheating on tests to get a piece of paper to get a "Job".

Then glad handing and "Oh Dude !" ing ones way to a desk with a computer on it.

Ain't gonna do it.

Lucky the thing turns at all let alone grinds metal I say.

We are lucky we came up a different way but doesn't bode well for the future of the species.
Those stone tools George was talking about may not be as far away from their future as was joked about.

[Mel Miller]

It amazes me that people continue to buy this import crap usually fully aware it is just that. Then, they spend time and money trying to make it work like it should. There is really no shortage of good older US made used tools available that will work circles around the import crap. Even if you have to spend a little time or money getting an older tool back into top shape, you have something good when you're done. It's a pleasure working with a tool that does the job well, and an extreme aggravation trying to work with a crappy "tool shaped object".

[george wilson]

My old Craftsman grinders have pressed flanges. But,they are correctly pressed to run true,and are made of thick steel. No problem with them being out of flat or wobbling. They can be made correctly without machining if someone just cares enough about their product to do it.

It is absolutely correct that most consumers don't know squat about the quality of tools,unfortunately. When I left the great school shop I had built up from an empty room to come to Williamsburg,the principal said he wanted to get a "coach/shop teacher" to fill the job. I told him that would be a very bad choice to make,but he did it anyway. Most of the time football trumps education,even in colleges(When I donated money to my old college,they stuck it into the football fund. That's the last of my money they'll ever get). One of my best former students came to see me in Williamsburg a few years later. He said he gave up on the guy when he tried to sharpen a saw blade with a WOOD RASP!!!(I hope it wasn't a carbide blade.)

That's where most people are when it comes to buying tools. They can make intelligent choices about TV's and cell phones,though. What qualified this "coach" to teach shop,I have no idea. The principal was a nice enough person,but definitely not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Once,in the teacher's lounge,he commented about the TV show "Adam 12". He said,"I don't know how they know they are 1 outa 12,but every time they get a radio call,they know they are 1 outa 12". It was hard to not explain it to him,but then he would have felt stupid.

When budget cuts are made in schools,shop and art are the first thing to go. That's where this society is. Now hand writing is going. I guess our future population will be helpless without a computer or a calculator handy. You can bet football will still be there,even if the permanent brain injuries continue. Or,maybe they'll wrap the players in Nerf!:)

[Winton Applegate]

That's where this society is. Now hand writing is going. I guess our future population will be helpless without a computer or a calculator handy. You can bet football will still be there,even if the permanent brain injuries continue. Or,maybe they'll wrap the players in Nerf!
One of the last people who worked for us I could really relate to who moved away wanted to write to me ocassionally, because at the time I wasn't on line and that was how he usually kept in touch he tried sending me a hand writen letter. His hand writing was so illegible and child like, even though he was a college grad, that I couldn't bear to try to decipher it on a long term thing. I let that long distance relationship slip away and strongly regret it now.
"The new girl" at work, who is college bound and a quick study and a good worker come to me the other day to find out how to figure twenty percent of another number.
Ah oh.
And our "new guy" has very significant issues from sports related head trama. A shame because other wise he is first class.

George,
Did you see my question to you for the OP's grinder prob above ?

[Brian Holcombe]

FWIW I think their is a bit of a renaissance in the younger generation in regard to the industrial arts.

[Winton Applegate]

Brian,

FWIW I think their is a bit of a renaissance in the younger generation in regard to the industrial arts.

Amen !