Letter carving

[phil harold]

I want to get good at carving letters, is there any good resources I should look at?


thanks
phil

[Mike Henderson]

Here's one book - Letter Carving in Wood by Chris Pye (http://www.amazon.com/Lettercarving-Wood-A-Practical-Course/dp/1861080433/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1384801372&sr=8-1&keywords=letter+carving+in+wood)

Mike

[William Adams]

Michael Harvey's _Creative Lettering Today_ combines several books including one on wood carving.

[phil harold]

Here's one book - Letter Carving in Wood by Chris Pye (http://www.amazon.com/Lettercarving-Wood-A-Practical-Course/dp/1861080433/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1384801372&sr=8-1&keywords=letter+carving+in+wood)

Mike
Thanks, I think I can afford that one


Michael Harvey's _Creative Lettering Today_ combines several books including one on wood carving.
Interesting,
I might have to spring for this
I figure if I have to carve letters I better be able to draw them, picked up a cheap set of nibs today.

[Mike Henderson]

I don't like carving letters but what I do is pick out the font I want on my computer, then print the text full size. I then glue the paper to the wood and carve through the paper. Any remaining paper can be sanded away.

Unless you're doing scrip, the tools you'll need are mostly flat gouges. You can substitute standard bench chisels to get started.

Mike

[Mark Yundt]

+1, it's my go to method! At times I have an old calligraphy book I use for monogram type letters with flourishes. The fonts are all that's really needed 'cause carving them is all the same basically.

[Terry O'Donnell]

There are a variety of approaches and techniques - so you can either just pick one and go with it, or you can try a variety of ways and try to extract and use what suits you the best. A lot depends on what scale of work you plan to do and whether you will be using hardwoods as well as softer woods.

In a addition to the two excellent books previously mentioned, another one is "Carving Signs" by Greg Krockta and Roger Schroeder (published by Fox Chapel, 1997). They show how to use a mill knife which is somewhat similar to a chip carving approach - but it lets you work at a larger scale -- with the advantage that you mostly need only one knife as opposed to needing a variety of gouges.

[Mark Yundt]

In my opinion I would hesitate to use a mill knife for large scale work. I've done a number of signs for businesses in outdoor use and to control the cuts a gouge is the best option. I also have a friend who's sole business is carving signs and any type of knife isn't found in his shop. You only need one or two chisels to do effective letter carving almost regardless of the scale of the lettering being done. And the advantage of a chisel is the bevel of the incised lettering isn't flat but slightly curved ( a # 3 or 5 ) and will reflect light much better than a flat surface making for a much more attractive presentation.

[phil harold]

I am sure there is more than one way to skin a cat

The book Terry recommends has a mill knife on the cover, could be the mentions this style of carving

I am interested in all methods, so I can find one that works for me
I am here to learn


Mark, would that incised lettering, slightly curved be concave or convexed?

thanks
phil

[Mark Yundt]

True,, but it can be the choice of a scalpel or a hatchet. Both will do the job.
Don't be fooled by cover art. The ones I've seen, such as the one with the large curved chisel making a cut is a farce. I won't even discuss others I've seen. It's done for the romance of carving,, some wood chips scattered tastefully about and some carving sitting there waiting for the proper chisel to be used. Editors etc. aren't concerned about proper chisels and carving. They're selling you the idea of it and getting you to at least pick up the book. That's their job. My job is carving.
Most letters for incised work tends to look best as I said with a bit of a concave cut to them. That's why I recommend something along the lines of a #2,,#3 or maybe even a #5.
I'd lean towards a 2 or 3,, a straight ( heck , an Xacto can work ) and a V tool. The V plows the way and establishes the depth and center line of the letter. Then follow up with the 2 or 3 creating the sides of the letter which will end up with a slight inward curvature. No matter what style of lettering you're doing , as long as it's incised ,, these simple tools will produce ANY style you wish. Times New Roman,, Block etc.,, ,, you name it. It'll work.
Not the best example but here is something I had at hand.See how the letters reflect nicely? And this was a quickie rush job with a off the cuff lettering.

Here is a link to some other small lettering. I have more that was done across the faces of Altars, signs etc. but not readily at hand. Maybe on my regular site there is some. But here is another example for the Bishops crest.
http://woodcarvingblog.wordpress.com/mark/bishops-crest/7/


(http://woodcarvingblog.wordpress.com/mark/bishops-crest/7/)

[phil harold]

But But his book was the cheapest

Nice work Mark

I am waiting on the books

And will be checking the library for Creative Lettering Today ( it is above a beyond my budget at the moment)


Thanks

[phil harold]

Best wood to practice on?

I have a lot of cherry but it seems very hard compared to Basswood

living here in south dakota the only tall stuff that seems to grow, is corn

[Mark Yundt]

Cherry carves beautifully but as you say it is a bit harder. The Basswood is a good choice for practice.

[Terry O'Donnell]

Mark, you talk about a "slight inward curvature" -- if you picture a "V" (the cross-section of the cut) -- do you mean that each of the straight sides of the V would bow out a bit? If so, is that something that you found worked well for you -- or do you know of any historical examples or anywhere it's been written about?


Thank you much for posting pictures of your lettering - but it's not easy to compare how light reflects with that of a pure V-cut - so I guess I better try it -- but I hope that I understand what you mean - that you're talking about a chasing type of cut, instead of a straight-sided V?


I can understand (and agree!) how you would not recommend using a mill knife. The book mentioned is mainly about using that tool, and is not just a careless publicity thing by the publisher. The authors state that they use it for all but larger letters and for harder woods - for which they show using gouges to chop out the bulk of the wood, and then clean up using a mill knife. I didn't mean to specifically recommend that approach -- it's just that it shows another way of doing it. One of the authors also wrote an article in Fine Woodworking -- titled "Carved Signs: Freehand lettering with the Murphy Knife" by Roger Schroeder -- written about the sign business of Paul McCarthy (again - I'm not recommending - just mentioning it!)

[Derek Cox]

Phil,
I am a new carver who has some of Chris Pye's books and I subscribe to his online carving video website. Attached are some photos of a sign I letter carved recently in a hard native species that exhibits a strong ray pattern, much like Oak. I carved it using exactly the techniques Chris advocates in his letter carving book and in his videos. I used a total of about four chisels/gouges to complete this work - two straights of different sizes and a 5/20 and a 3/ 25 (pfiel numbering system). The letters are 80-100mm high and the font is modern roman. The Gothic letters, carved in poplar, were cut using similar chisels and techniques. Hopefully this shows what is possible using a very basic set of tools - after all letter carving is a small subset of the wider carving genre. I find that what makes letter carving look good is paying attention to design and executing the letters as accurately and crisply as possible - note the M in the gothic font, it was the first one I carved in this font and the errors and over cuts are obvious. Regards

Derek
276127

Edit: looks like some of the photos are too large, I will try and reduce them and re-post

[Derek Cox]

OK, I have reduced the file sizes. Note that the walls of the straight segments are straight (not concave or convex), the curved sections will be slightly concave due to the curvature of the gouge used.

Regards

Derek
276156276154276157276155276152276153

[phil harold]

There may be hope for me!

nice work!

[Tom McMahon]

First I should say that I am not an expert letter carver, but in the past I have done a lot of lettering on paper. That being said the secret to great lettering whether on paper or wood is the balance of the negetive and positive space. Here is part of a web page that deals with spacing.

"Good spacing is not just about having the same amount of space between letters. If you draw each letter in an imaginary box of the same size, you will find that the words look uneven and distorted. Because italic calligraphy is a mixture of straight and curved lines, the rules for spacing have to do with the relationships between the curves and the straights:"


http://www.calligraphy-skills.com/images/italic-calligraphy_spacing.gif

[Derek Cox]

Tom - you are absolutely right and this is part of what I mean when I say that design is important. I didn't want to delve too deeply into this facet but the idea you are discussing, Chris Pye refers to as the 'colour' of the lettering and he discusses at length in his letter carving book. If you look at the 'colour' of the sign I did, it is certainly not perfect. I spent a lot of time arranging the letters to get it as good as I could but there came a point where I couldn't look objectively any more and I just had to start carving. Looking at it now I would change a few things but in my defence, you get better at this as you go (I hope).

regards

Derek

[Tom McMahon]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5yXXNtjomlU/TJLO6C3gBSI/AAAAAAAAAwk/kPNAoMwmRVc/s1600/Fraktur_Sentences.jpg
Instead of just looking at fonts it's good to look at a lot of actual lettering to see how the letters are modified for spacing. Try looking at the words without focusing on the individual letters, if there is a space that is wrong it will stick out as different than the rest, you can also look at it in a mirror or upside down, or squint so that it is out of focus. Does this make any sense?

[Derek Cox]

Tom,
That Calligraphy is gorgeous, your hand I presume? I hope you don't mind but I saved the image to my reference library for lettering. Do you have any other examples you might like to share.

I really appreciate your input here.

Regards

Derek

[phil harold]

Where is the like button?

[Tom McMahon]

Sorry, I can't take credit for the calligraphy. I just put it up as an example of good spacing. I don't know who did it, I wish my hand was that good. What I was trying to show is that in good lettering, the letters, the negative spaces and the serifs are all changed depending on which letters are next to which. A couple of tricks to look for above, serifs extended to fill a space, compare all the "Y's" and see how they change depending what they are next to. These are the things that are hard to do when useing computer fonts as your model without modifying them. In old time type setting letters came in different widths to be able to adjust somewhat.

[Tim Balda]

If you really want to do lettering, and do it well, then get a good quality chip carving knife, learn to sharpen it and keep it sharp, and then layout and practice lettering for 15 minutes a day for 90 days. You will find that you will be able to letter anything, in any size, on any surface, quickly and easily.

I have 214 different chisels that I use for the many different kinds of carving I do.
When it comes to lettering, chip carving techniques work the best for me.
I can do letters from 1/2" tall up to 4" tall with little effort.
The angles are consistent, reflective and the carving is clean.
It is only a matter of learning the technique and most people can become quite adept at it if they practice a bit.

If you want to practice, use basswood.
It is inexpensive, readily available, and will give you sufficient challenges in grain, texture and dealing with imperfections to help you become proficient at lettering. After basswood, I would suggest you move to butternut (white walnut) as it is a bit harder and has even more challenges. After that, try to find some mahogany sapwood, lighter in color and not as hard as the heartwood. That is excellent practice material.

As for the patterns, applying paper to wood and cutting through it works, but it is really hard on tools.
Cutting paper ruins a sharpened edge.
Also, the paper covers grain, texture and imperfections in the wood that you have to deal with while you are carving.
It increases the chances for mis-cuts and mistakes.

I put patterns on wood with a little tracing paper (not carbon paper, too oily) and then go over the pattern with a good graphite pencil.
If you practice a little each day, you will not rely on the patterns as much as your own instincts when you go do the carving.
The pattern on the wood becomes a guide instead of a prison.

IMHO.

t

[Tim Balda]

I am getting to the point of finishing this little project.
The two pictures show the back with the lettering and then the love birds on the front.
There is additional lettering that goes on the front, just not sure what yet.

As you can see, the size is very small.
Done with my chip-carving knife.
The wood is butternut.

277572 277573

The overall dimensions of the loom shuttle are 12" by about 4-1/2"
The reverse staining needs to be don yet, but you get the idea.

Be good to yourselves.

t

[Derek Cox]

Tim,
Thanks for sharing your work. Without putting too fine a point on it - I will have to disagree with you regarding the best tools for letter carving. Most professional letter carving I have seen has been done with ordinary carving chisels and gouges, and there is no limit to what seems to be achievable using these tools. Please check out Chris Pye's gallery for some simple examples of gorgeously executed letter carving using standard carving tools:

http://www.chrispye-woodcarving.com/gallery

From my limited experience, straight chisels excel at achieving blemish free straight segments of the letter and gouges are the best tools for achieving consistent and smooth curves. Again watching Chris Pye's videos showing his letter carving technique gives me tremendous confidence in what can be achieved with carving tools - the bonus is that these same tools can then be used for other carving.

Of course this is the opinion of one person and I don't intend to disrespect your opinion in any way.

On the matter of practice and marking out the letters, I can't disagree with you at all on that score. I have been greatly pleased with the improvement in my own efforts through practice. I have cut letters both through paper and having directly marked the letters on the wood with pencil. Both work but the latter does allow a greater sensitivity to the wood and all the factors discussed so far by Tom.

Warm regards

Derek

[Tim Balda]

Derek,

I am not saying that the chip carving knife is the best tool for all lettering.
There are 214 chisels and gouges in my drawer, no one tool is the best for everything.

In the original post, he said he wanted to get good at lettering.
The chip knife, used correctly, practiced as I suggested, would accomplish that goal.

I have found, over the course of 25 years of carving, teaching and doing many commercial carving commissions, that the best way to get something done is the road that leads to confidence and productivity. Most times I have found that a student will perform better with traditional chisels and gouges after experiencing success with a chip knife, or even other tools.

Additionally, with respect to lettering, a chip knife can do lettering as small as 3/8" tall and I do lettering over 4".
You would not be able to tell the difference between my letters and those carved with traditional tools.
And, I can use my knife for other carving as well. It is very versatile.

If you did not know this, chip carving is the only knife work still taught in the carving schools in Germany and Switzerland,
Proficiency with chip knives is a requirement for any apprentice carver in Europe to this very day.
Chip knives are looked upon an valued tools among those that use traditional tools the most.
There is a reason for that.

There is a tool for every task. Being able to utilize a wide variety of tools, including the dreaded knife, is the best option for any carver.
More people should use traditional tools, in my opinion, here in the USA, for the same reason more traditional tools users should be using different knives.
Again, I have 214 chisels and gouges that I use every day. And about 30 different kinds of knives. Not to mention power tools, diamond tools and a whole host of files, mills, carbide turning tools and the list goes on.

No one tool, or one kind of tool, is the best for everything, or anything for that matter.
Personal preference comes into play.

There are days I want to do the background in a relief carving with my traditional gouges just to feel the steel against the wood.
There are other days I want to do the same task with a router because I need to get to the detail before the picture in my mind goes away.

Just don't get stuck in the mind-set that there is one way, or one tool, or set of tools, that should be used.
Always keep an open mind.

Take Good care of yourself.

t

[Paul Kasman]

I subscribe to Chris Pye's website. It works out to just over $9 and it is month to month. He is very good.

http://www.woodcarvingworkshops.tv/