Want recommendations to replace my 1,000 grit water stone

[Tony Wilkins]

My current sharpening kit is 1,000 grit Hida (generic red brick) water stone, 6,000 grit King S3 water stone, and an Atoma 400 grit diamond stone to flatten them both. I also have the little rotary box set of Suehiro dual stones that I really like but aren't big enough for plane blades (and I intend to use in the shop for quick hits).

My problem is that it is a pain in the tuckus to soak the 1,000 grit Hida. The King works well enough as a splash and go that I don't intend to replace it unless it just makes sense to.

So what do you guys recommend to replace the Hida? I seem to be drawn to the Suehiro even though they're at the top of the price range (and I'm ok with that).

Since I keep going back and forth on getting something higher than the 6K I'm open to general suggestions. The only thing I'm not much interested in is stropping - my lack of strength and feeling in my hands means a guide is a good thing for me.

TIA,
Tony

[David Weaver]

shapton pro 1000 (NOT the glasstone), glue it (with epoxy or something else) to a stable surface. It cuts fast, wears slowly and it's not too expensive.

[Winton Applegate]

Tony,
I am completely happy with my Shapton Pros.
The first photo was my first sharpening "kit" with a King red brick (I think it is a 1200 but has been too many years to remember for sure).


http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/noydb1/roc%20cuts%20wood/TheOldTeam_zpsc3a9e6e3.jpg (http://s801.photobucket.com/user/noydb1/media/roc%20cuts%20wood/TheOldTeam_zpsc3a9e6e3.jpg.html)


The second photo is my pride and joy stable of Shaptons. Hey . . . too many is better than not enough right ?
Just a splash to use them
But
I still rinse the heck out of them between blades
so
not really any easier than keeping them in tubs of water.


http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/noydb1/roc%20cuts%20wood/TheNewTeam_zps203a8c13.jpg (http://s801.photobucket.com/user/noydb1/media/roc%20cuts%20wood/TheNewTeam_zps203a8c13.jpg.html)


Third photo : hey, how did that translucent hard Arkansas get in there ?


http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/noydb1/roc%20cuts%20wood/IMG_1464_zpsa9227749.jpg (http://s801.photobucket.com/user/noydb1/media/roc%20cuts%20wood/IMG_1464_zpsa9227749.jpg.html)


Here is THEEEE place to buy Shapton. Always does a great job for me and excellent care in packaging and quick delivery.


http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/Q!0P0000.htm

[Chris Griggs]

In no particular order...

1. Shapton Pro 1k
2. Sigma 1200
3. Sigma 1000
4. Bester 1200
5. Chosera 800
6. Chosera 1000

All of the above are excellent stones. They do have some differences...soakers vs splashers....can leave in water vs must be stored dry...but all are excellent and at the end of the day they have more similarities than difference. Read up on all of them, of the small differences decide what traits you value and what you can't live with.

...OR just roll a 6 sided die...you'll probably be just as happy with the result.

[Derek Cohen]

shapton pro 1000 (NOT the glasstone), glue it (with epoxy or something else) to a stable surface. It cuts fast, wears slowly and it's not too expensive.

Totally agree. I prefer the Pro Shapton 1000 to the Sigma 1000. It seems to cut faster and provides better feedback.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Archie England]

+1.

IMO, this can't be said better!

[Adam Cruea]

I'll be the oddball here and suggest the Sigma 1000.

BTW, I just get a 5 gallon bucket and permanently soak my sharpening stones. Occasionally empty the bucket and scrape the sludge off the bottom and refill with cold water.

The only reason I can't suggest a Shapton is because I've never used one. :p

[Tony Shea]

I have very happy with my 1000 Shapton Pro, as David originally said be sure it is the PRO not the glass stone. I have never used a glass stone and never plan on it. They certainly cannot be any harder than the Pro series stones and it looks like a lot less stone for the $.

I do recommend mounting the stone to a glass plate, or some other very stable surface.

[David Weaver]

The glasstone 1000 is softer than the pro. I get the sense that they wanted it to behave like a very fast stone, and sacrifice stone life intentionally assuming you'll just buy more.

Not all of the glasstones are soft, but they do seem like a better stone for the maker than the buyer.

[Winton Applegate]

The only reason I can't suggest a Shapton is because I've never used one. :p
my gosh then you just haven't lived to life's fullest
Ha, ha, ha
I have heard tell that when using the Shapton 30,000 that you can actually hear angels singing.
I have not had that pleasure yet
YET !

(I am sure your Sigmas are just fine)

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I use the Sahpton glass now and love them. I feel guilty now just spraying with water and not having to go through the whole baptismal ritual of what I refer to as my "Dunkin' Stonenuts." (Nortons) I bought them as my entry-level waterstones. I guess the Nortons are Baptist and the Shaptons are Methodist! (Dunk versus sprinkle, in case you didn't get that joke.) Now I have the Shapton Glass in the 1000, 4000, 8000, and 16000 grit. For roughing-in (setting primary bevel and removing chips) I use diamond stones.

I do wish the Shaptons were thicker. I know that you are supposed to be able to take them right down to the glass. There is just something psychological about how thin they are. Nothing more than a perception issue. I started to get the Pro's but found a deal too good to pass up on the glass ones.

@Adam Cruea, beware of soaking man-made stones permanently. It can weaken the bonding agent over time. I had my 8000 Norton go soft from soaking for a long period during a marathon month of handwork. I just kept it soaking all the time since I was using it so often, despite the mfg warning not to do so. I found that the medium became softer, but using the flattening stone to remove some of the top layer (beyond just flattening- actually digging off some of the top layer) helped remedy the problem. It still seems softer than when new.

[Adam Cruea]

@Adam Cruea, beware of soaking man-made stones permanently. It can weaken the bonding agent over time. I had my 8000 Norton go soft from soaking for a long period during a marathon month of handwork. I just kept it soaking all the time since I was using it so often, despite the mfg warning not to do so. I found that the medium became softer, but using the flattening stone to remove some of the top layer (beyond just flattening- actually digging off some of the top layer) helped remedy the problem. It still seems softer than when new.

Yeah, I asked Stu about it and he said it was fine, but time shall tell. Usually I flatten them at least once per sharpening session (at least the 1000) and they seem fine still. I've had them for a couple of years now, I believe and I haven't noticed any degradation.

Definitely something for folks to be wary of, though, and I'm glad you mentioned it because frankly, I wouldn't think to mention something like that to new folks.


my gosh then you just haven't lived to life's fullest
Ha, ha, ha
I have heard tell that when using the Shapton 30,000 that you can actually hear angels singing.
I have not had that pleasure yet
YET !

(I am sure your Sigmas are just fine)

Forget singing angels. . .I use the mirror edge left by my Sigmas to inspect my teeth occasionally or check for arrant nose hairs. :D

[David Weaver]

my gosh then you just haven't lived to life's fullest
Ha, ha, ha
I have heard tell that when using the Shapton 30,000 that you can actually hear angels singing.
I have not had that pleasure yet
YET !

(I am sure your Sigmas are just fine)

I've used one. I used it next to the 15k and the 16k glass. A buddy of mine "had to have it" despite not being much of a hand tool user.

The only thing we noticed with it from a practical standpoint is that his wallet was 300 bucks lighter. We didn't notice any finish difference on softer hardwoods, edge longevity nor ease of planing, etc.

So, I don't know if you'd hear angels, but you'd probably hear a pretty loud sucking sound.

(And $25 worth of oxide powders would make a technically much sharper edge).

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I've used one. I used it next to the 15k and the 16k glass. A buddy of mine "had to have it" despite not being much of a hand tool user.

The only thing we noticed with it from a practical standpoint is that his wallet was 300 bucks lighter. We didn't notice any finish difference on softer hardwoods, edge longevity nor ease of planing, etc.

So, I don't know if you'd hear angels, but you'd probably hear a pretty loud sucking sound.

(And $25 worth of oxide powders would make a technically much sharper edge).

Curiosity is the main reason I would consider one, but a strop charged with iron oxide is equal to a 30k grit, so is there really any advantage?

One be thing to note with 16k and 30k stones is that you need to use almost no pressure. Just glide it over the stone and let the stone do the work. You are only trying to remove scratches of 1 micron if following an 8000 grit stone. I saw an article on a shaving forum where the guy used a microscope and saw no difference from 8k to 16k, but then he tried again with less pressure on the blade and got excellent results.

[Rick Fisher]

I read an article about super fine stones which said the " grit " rating was not apples to apples..

[David Weaver]

I read an article about super fine stones which said the " grit " rating was not apples to apples..

It's definitely not, and even if it was a discussion of particle sizes in microns that were the same, different particles leave different impressions on the edge of a tool.

[Chris Griggs]

It's definitely not, and even if it was a discussion of particle sizes in microns that were the same, different particles leave different impressions on the edge of a tool.

and even if all that was the same, the hardness/softness of different binder impacts how easily "fresh" particles come up vs. how easy it is to let them wear a little and produce a finer edge.

Its really tough to compare stones on paper....

[David Weaver]

Curiosity is the main reason I would consider one, but a strop charged with iron oxide is equal to a 30k grit, so is there really any advantage?

If the strop is soft, then the stone might seem a bit more keen. If the strop is fairly hard (but not steel), then the resulting edge should be very similar, and the give on a fairly hard strop might make it so that it's a better edge.

But if you do a good job on the 1 micron stones a level below, you'll notice nothing or very nearly nothing. You can pretty easily notice $300 though!

Most of the razor sharpeners finish with powders because they just seem to do a better job than stones do for smoothness and keenness of a shave.

[Stuart Tierney]

I read an article about super fine stones which said the " grit " rating was not apples to apples..

Where? Got a link?


No, I'm not going to suggest anything for Tony here.


Stu.

(Tony, google 'waterstone testing'. It might help with your decision. ;) )

[David Weaver]

Somewhere, Tony's point about not soaking stones became lost in the weeds.

add the Ezelap 81F3 to the discussion. It's about $44 shipped from amazon. A little more expensive than it was a couple of months ago, but still a worthy consideration as a medium stone.