hand plane tearout when flushing a face frame

[Curtis Niedermier]

I posted this in the regular woodworking and power tool forum before I realized there was a hand tool forum. Sorry, I'm new to the site.

Here's my post:

Recently I put together my first door panel frame made entirely with hand tools. The stiles and rails were mortised and tenoned by hand, lumber dimensioned by hand, etc.

When it was all put together, all the edges lined up just about perfect and were easy to flush up with a hand plane. But on the face, a couple of the pieces sat a little proud of the pieces mating against them - obviously meeting at right angles. I quickly figured out that I could never plane with the grain the entire time when flushing up the face. I had to plane across the grain for one piece and with it for the other. This caused some tearout on the piece that was being planed across the grain. I tried going at an angle. I tried rotating the plane around the corner. I ended up taking extremely light cuts and trying to stop just shy of the joint, then coming back with a scraper to clean up.

Is there a trick out there for handling this type of situation with a plane? I could of used a sander, but I really didn't want to kick up the dust.

I've run into the same thing when flushing the top of a dovetailed box case, but I was able to sort of steer the plane around the corner and avoid too much tearout.

Thanks in advance for the advice.

[David Weaver]

If you're using a single iron plane, take a fairly fine cut and cut on the diagonal. Mind the back of the plane so it's either on the panel or off to the other side. If it's a short plane and you turn it in toward the door panel, the back end of the plane is sure to ding up a bevel on the panel somewhere.

If you have a double iron smoother to do it with, set the double iron properly and do the same thing. As soon as you plane across the grain on the stiles accidentally, it'll break out the opposite side. Slow and steady wins the race (and doesn't do damage).

[Winton Applegate]

Curtis,
The famous question . . .
what kind of wood is the door panel frame made of ?

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I can often level these things with a plane with care. Sharp blade, shallow cut, and paying attention. A lighter chamfer on the back edge, and a slightly cambered blade to keep from breaking out grain if I go across it, otherwise, pretty much what David says.

If the "high" piece is a straight shot across (the stiles versus the rails unless I'm confusing them again) I've clamped a batten down to keep myself from running the plane across the grain on the rail.

Other approaches I've taken have been:

a) live with the unevenness (I've seen worse than comes off my bench in antique shops)

b) live with the tearout (probably why I'm a fan of paint - a little filler and paint and no one knows)

c) sand or scrape - it's no fun, but it's not the end of the world; best tool for the job and all that.

d) Taper the boards slightly. If the stiles are slightly proud of the rails, this works okay, I can't imagine it working in the other way 'round at all though. Out of flat/true on the back side of the door is often more noticeable because it creates gaps or a door that sets poorly against the carcase. But the show face, sometimes you can get away with "flat enough". By planing a little heavier at the outside of the stile, you can sneak up to the joint between the rail and stile a little easier. Obviously, this doesn't work if you end up planing something that resembles a chamfer in the end.

And it doesn't help you much now, but the best approach I've had is to find these things out in the dry fit and resolve them before pieces are permanently attached. Of course, things move sometimes, and you can't always do this, but any time you can, it's a lot easier to tackle. Part of why I really liked drawbore pins the one time I played with them; they really gave me a better idea of the final fit.

[Curtis Niedermier]

It's white oak.

[Jim Koepke]

Curtis,

Welcome to the Creek. Your profile doesn't indicate where you call home. You may live close to someone who may be willing to get together on this or other challenges.

My approach to this kind of situation is usually a low angle block plane used at a skew, a very sharp blade, being careful and lots of patience. Sometimes even a thin piece of paper is used under parts of the plane's sole.

jtk

[Brian Ashton]

If there's not much to remove I'd be going with a freshly sharpened scraper or scraper plane for the difficult grain and scrape at an angle to grain direction so your cuts are skewed

[Sean Hughto]

Either the rail or the stile is proud. Plane the proud stick with the grain - with a plane that is long enough to allow you to keep it flat on the proud member - like a 7 or 5, not a block plane or 3. Slow down when the step is becoming really small and possibly reduce your depth of cut to the minimum. When the step is nearly imperceptible, wrap a cork or wood block with sand paper and finish it off.

[Winton Applegate]

Oak, that's good planable stuff.
Here is what I would recommend, at least for future projects (you have probably already taken care of this one) :


Set up a practice example from scraps from the exact same wood you are using.
A sign that your sharpening, geometry as well as methods of achieving the sharpness, is right is YOU WILL BE ABLE TO PLANE THIS PROBLEM WITHOUT TEAROUT.
Things to focus on :
cutting angle . . . at least 50° (so bevel down with a back bevel of five degrees or a bevel up with a combined bed angle and sharpening angle to achieve a cutting angle of 50° even steeper is better but may be unnecessary.
No rounding to the lower facet of the blade so no soft stropping and I recommend a jig to sharpen a critical edge such as this one. I am not saying no camber; a touch of camber is good.


Plane in a continuous sort of cut pivoting the plane as you approach the cross grain component like you were a little kid steering his toy car around the corner . . . letting the tail end swing well out.


And
plane in both directions if you have to. Really though when the sharpening/geometry is right there will simply be no tearout when finish planing even with a thicker than thinest shaving/cut.


You may have to stop and resharpen or change to a fresh blade.
Don't take any short cuts in resharpening meaning start with a coarser stone then a couple of finer stones rather than attempting to just touch up on say a 6000, 8000 etc. TRUST ME ON THIS PLEASE.


Keep at it on your test specimen until you are invincible with it and there will be no looking back. YOU WILL HAVE IT !
Then go after your pride and joy project.

PS: did you say what plane you are using ? I will go back and reread.