Gouges for spoon carving

[Judson Green]

Was hoping to make a few spoons as Christmas gifts for friends and family. I made an attempt at spoon carving this past spring using the gouges I have and the results... well uh I guess it looks like a spoon. I was thinking since Mr. Lee has free shipping going on is there a decent gouge or two you guys would recommend for spoon carving? Or are the gouges I have plenty good?

Hopefully I can make something simple but elegant like Tony's. (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?208995-Again-with-spoon-carving-I-love-apple-wood!)

This is one of the spoons I made and the gouges I currently have.
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[Tony Shea]

Your gouges will work to a point. Once you get into some deeper bowls it is tough to maneuver them around in there. If you're going to go the gouge route I recommend getting a bent gouge, they get inside much better. But I personally prefer a hook knife over gouges for most of the work. Pinewood Forge makes a wonderful hook knife and is the only tool I have ever bought that was as sharp as I could have gotten it, and I sharpen EVERYTHING that i get for cutting tools. His knives come hair popping sharp and that's not an exaggeration.

I highly recommend you go out and find branches or trees that are still very green (wet) opposed to using dried boards. Once in a while my blank will get dried out before I want it too and it really is very difficult to carve this way. And when carving out the bowl working across the grain is the best way to remove most of the stock inside. All finishing cuts or sanding if you prefer needs to be done after the spoon has dried out. And the finishing cuts inside the bowl should be with the grain to get that polished surface. I personally don't like sanding my spoons but sometimes with touch up the inside of the bowl.

I have learned a ton from guys like Robin Wood http://www.robin-wood.co.uk/wood-craft-blog/ Peter Follansbee, Ben Orford, and other great green woodworkers.

[Jonathan McCullough]

A nice sharp round paint scraper of the type you can get at your local BORG is useful for scraping and finishing the inside of the bowl. Unlike round card scrapers, it comes with a handle and when you learn to sharpen it (or if you already know) it can put a nice final surface without using sandpaper. Hyde is the manufacturer of my scraper. The scraper usually comes in a teardrop shape with a "D" shaped recess to affix it perpendicular to the handle with a screw. Usually in the painting tools aisle. You can also get round carbide insert tip scrapers like that for removing grout as I recall, but the radius is too small and the carbide doesn't get as sharp as a card scraper so it crushes and rips the work. But that one might be useful in other applications. The spoons I made were in hard, dry maple, and my experience was that more of a timber framer's socket gouge sharpened with a steep angle, instead of a fine angle worked better. I'd have been there forever taking fine little sips with the Pfeils. Soft, fresh wet maple would have been easier, but working with what was available . . .

[Adam Maxwell]

But I personally prefer a hook knife over gouges for most of the work. Pinewood Forge makes a wonderful hook knife and is the only tool I have ever bought that was as sharp as I could have gotten it, and I sharpen EVERYTHING that i get for cutting tools. His knives come hair popping sharp and that's not an exaggeration.

I'll second everything Tony wrote about Del's hook knives and green wood. The Mora hook knife isn't too bad either; I picked one up for my son after we saw Peter Follansbee talk about Swedish spoon carving on this episode of The Woodwright's Shop:

http://video.pbs.org/video/2172740518/

The spoons I've made look a bit odd, but they're fun to make and good exercise for your forearm and hand if you use the knife.

[john davey]

Paul Sellers did a spoon making video on his blog. He uses a #7 35mm. I don't have a gouge that large and I assume anything from 24mm (~1 inch) and up will get the job done.

[Judson Green]

Thanks guys. Hadn't thought of a hook knife or the paint scraper. I think for now I'm gonna go the larger gouge route. In the spring I will havta make plans to get some green wood then I'm sure the hook knife will the appropriate tool. For now I think a gouge that can be stuck is in order. Thanks again.

[John Powers]

I love my pinewood forge hooked knife. No way to get one in time for christmas spoons.

[Steve Friedman]

I have and love my Del Stubbs (Pinewood Forge) hook knives. I have every one he makes. But, my new favorite spoon carving tools are the Jim Wester (North Bay Forge) Bent Knives and the Hans Karlsson Mini Spoon Gouges (from Drew Langsner at Country Workshops). Amazing Tools.

Happy carving.

Steve

[John Powers]

Steve, do you use the palm up grip with the north bay knife? It resembles a mask carving knife I got from a first person in Canada. With the Stubbs I just use it like a conventional knife.

[Steve Friedman]

Steve, do you use the palm up grip with the north bay knife? It resembles a mask carving knife I got from a first person in Canada. With the Stubbs I just use it like a conventional knife.
I think I have four of them and use it with a variety of holds. Palm up, traditional hook knife style, even two handed (with the blank clamped). The only thing is that you can't put your fingers on the back of the double sided knife, so you just use the handle to support the blade when using it like a hook knife. They are the sharpest knives I have ever used and slice through wood like nothing else I have ever owned. You're more than welcome to come up and play with them whenever you want. I'm around a mile off 95 in Pennington.

Steve

[Tony Shea]

Interesting that you like the North Bay knife better than Del's. I have no experience with the NBF knife so have no idea how they compare. What do you like better about the NBF knife over Del's? The Mini Spoon Gouge def looks like it would be nice to have, Hans Karlsson's tools are really top notch. I had the chance to use my buddies Hans Karlsson carving axe and it was about as nice of an axe you can get. I have a bit of an axe addiction all of the sudden and this is the next one I plan to buy. I've been using the Gransfor's Sweedish carving axe lately and it is a bit heavier than I care for, but this is also a great tool non the less.


I have and love my Del Stubbs (Pinewood Forge) hook knives. I have every one he makes. But, my new favorite spoon carving tools are the Jim Wester (North Bay Forge) Bent Knives and the Hans Karlsson Mini Spoon Gouges (from Drew Langsner at Country Workshops). Amazing Tools.

Happy carving.

Steve

[Steve Friedman]

Interesting that you like the North Bay knife better than Del's. I have no experience with the NBF knife so have no idea how they compare. What do you like better about the NBF knife over Del's? The Mini Spoon Gouge def looks like it would be nice to have, Hans Karlsson's tools are really top notch. I had the chance to use my buddies Hans Karlsson carving axe and it was about as nice of an axe you can get. I have a bit of an axe addiction all of the sudden and this is the next one I plan to buy. I've been using the Gransfor's Sweedish carving axe lately and it is a bit heavier than I care for, but this is also a great tool non the less.
Good question. Carving knives are subjective so, remember that all of this is just my observation and experience. Also, I only make large (serving sized) spoons and ladles, so I'm removing a lot of wood.

Also, don't get me wrong - I love Del's knives and have all 6 of his hook knives plus a couple of his straight ones. The handles are amazing and they are, by far, the most comfortable knives I have ever used. But, they struggled when I tried to make some spoons from dry walnut, cherry, yellow wood, and Carolina Buckthorn this summer. The North Bay Forge knives are so thin and the bevel angle so small that they just seemed to glide through the wood effortlessly. Also (again in my opinion) much easier to sharpen. I also like being able to use a single knife in both directions and like the variety that Jim Wester offers. His small shallow bent knife is unsurpassed in dealing with grain reversal where the bowl meets the handle.

Not sure how much of a difference it makes, but the North Bay Forge knives are used with the bevel up, while Del's knives are used bevel down. If you compare that to how a drawknife works, that may explain why I have an easier time hogging out wood with the North Bay Forge knives. By the way, his straight knives and drawknives are also top notch.

That said, I still think that the Hans Karlsson mini spoon gouges are the easiest tool to use for forming the bowl of a spoon. The leverage you get with it just makes the chips fly. The only drawback is that it's a little tricky using it one handed. But, like any gouge, it would probably be safer to use it with the blank clamped down and the gouge held with two hands behind that edge.

Steve

[Judson Green]

Steve, are you talking about these? The two on the right.

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[Steve Friedman]

Steve, are you talking about these? The two on the right.

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Yes, those are the ones I have. One is 15mm and the other is 25mm. I spoke to Drew Langsner this summer and he now carries the 20mm version. I think he plans to stop carrying the other 2 sizes. I like having the 2 sizes. The smaller one has a much more curved sweep than the other. Making a bowl with a gouge is definitely easier on the hands than using hook knives.

Steve

[Steve Friedman]

Steve, are you talking about these? The two on the right.

274963
Yes, those are the ones I have. One is 15mm and the other is 25mm. I spoke to Drew Langsner this summer and he now carries the 20mm version. I think he plans to stop carrying the other 2 sizes. I like having the 2 sizes. The smaller one has a much more curved sweep than the other. Making a bowl with a gouge is definitely easier on the hands than using hook knives.

Steve

[John Powers]

Man those look great....I got to delete this post now. But first, are you hooked knife folks using the leather on the dowell with the rough for honing?

[Mike Holbrook]

I got a couple books and a DVD from Drew Langsner at Country Workshops on green wood carving for Christmas. I am waiting for him to restock some of his Hans Karlsson tools. I was planing on buying his suggested Starter Bowl Carvers Gouge and Adze selection. I live north of Atlanta on 12 acres of woods so I have lots of green wood. It sounds from this post like smaller gouges will be required for carving spoons. Drew mentions using a newer H-100, smaller, gouge for clean up, mini gouges are mentioned above....

Would anyone care to suggest a set of gouges for spoon making or even bowl making? Drew's site now lists 6 specialty or smaller gouges and lots of straight, bent and dog leg gouges.

Two of the "mini" tools are actually labeled as mortise cleaning devises. The mortise "gouges" look like they might be a more comfortable to use alternative to swan neck or Japanese mortise cleaning chisels? I am also wondering if these tools may have uses in general woodworking?

My interest in wooden spoons leans towards the larger cooking type sizes.

[george wilson]

I made a hook knife for a friend from a 1/2" square HSS lathe bit. I ground it into a hook shape and set the 1/2" square shank into a wooden handle. He said it was the best spoon knife he ever had. Should have been since it was HSS. He was showing it to some old cuss who dropped it. The hook broke. The old cuss said it couldn't have been any good since it broke!! Then,he walked off. Some people could tear up an anvil.

It wasn't a very pretty knife,and was rather "quick and dirty",but it was very effective.

[Steve Friedman]

Mike,

I would suggest calling Drew - he's always willing to help.

Spoon knives aside, I have several Hans Karlssen gouges from Drew, but for spoons I don't think any of them match the mini spoon gouges. The leverage and hand position are perfect. I have used the H-110 bent gouge (25 mm 25 sweep) for spoons, but it's much more cumbersome. The mini gouges let you hold the blank in one hand and carve with the other.

For bowls, the starting point is a curved adze to do the majority of the work. The long handled HK one is expensive, but an incredible tool. I just added the short handled one, but haven't used it yet. The basic bowl carving gouges are:

1. H-133 (or H-135) - a big, wide bent hooped gouge to use with a hammer to do the rest of the heavy lifting and clean up the adze marks
2. H-112 or (H-113) - a flatter bent gouge to clean up the hooped gouge marks
3. H-123 a relatively flat dog leg gouge to clean up the bottom of the bowl

The extras that are nice include:
4. H-132 or H-135 - a big, wide straight hooped gouge, especially useful if the wood is hard. The straight gouge removes wood more efficiently than a bent gouge because the edge is directly in line with the hammer/mallet blow.
5. H-110 - a smaller bent gouge to work the area where the bowl walls meet the bottom and the areas where the side meet the ends of the bowl.
6. H-100, H-101, or H-102 - a smaller straight gouge for the same purpose as the bent one.

I also recently added a Log Notch Gouge from Lee Valley and really like it for bowl making. It's 1-1/2" wide with a #7 sweep and very sharp. I'm finding that the blade profile is easier to sharpen than the similar Hans Karlssen gouges. Not sure why.

Of course, you'll also want to build a bowl horse to hold the blank while going at it with the adze. Mine sits outside all year, but I bought the short handled adze with the intent of using it while the blank is secured to my bench. In the Country Workshops video Jogge Sundqvist (sp?) does that while standing on a slightly elevated platform to effectively lower the bench slightly.

Some of the gouges (especially the smaller ones) can be useful on the outside of the bowls as well, but mostly that's done with a completely different set of tools - axe, drawknife, spokeshaves, rasps, and a sloyd knife (for the rim).

I think that making spoons and bowls is a blast. Might be my favorite things to make because it's extremely physical and you never know what it's going to look like until you're done. Wood grain and knots make you adapt as you go along. That's my kind of woodworking.

Steve

[Jim Koepke]

I have been contemplating a convex bottom spokeshave. Does anyone know of such?

jtk

[phil harold]

Mr. Lee has free shipping going on is there a decent gouge or two you guys would recommend for spoon carving?


Mike,

I would suggest calling Drew - he's always willing to help.
Steve

Who are these people and can they help supply my habit


Symptoms of my addiction

tool catalog beside my toilet, sometimes I read them before bed.

own multiples of the same tool, and none of them get used.

have tools I don’t really know how to use or maintain.

You have tools in original boxes.

You have no wood, but recently purchased a tool.

[Mike Holbrook]

Steve thanks for the ideas. I have talked to Drew a couple times. He was out of stock on quite a few things. I have an order in for basic bowl kit and a froe. I think the basic set, adze, hatchet and three large gouges is more for large bowls. I believe I may have to order through Drew or look for items at the manufacturer. Either way there may be different options. I plan to call Drew again soon. I am just trying to dig up enough information to discuss options intelligently and check on other possible suppliers.

These tools are not just for me. I have a step son who is interest in green wood carving too.

[Steve Friedman]

Who are these people and can they help supply my habit
Assuming you were serious, Mr. Lee is Rob Lee and refers to Lee Valley Tools out of Ottawa, Canada (www.leevalley.com/us/). In addition to selling tools made by other manufacturers, Lee Valley also sells an incredible array of tools made by its manufacturing arm - Veritas Tools (www.veritastools.com). If you really haven't bought anything from them yet, be warned - Lee Valley is an addiction in and of itself. There is currently a free shipping promotion until Jan 6.

Drew refers to Drew Langsner, of Country Workshops (www.countryworkshops.org) in Marshall, NC. Country Workshops is an amazing woodworking school that Drew established in the 1970s. I believe that he is the only North American supplier of tools by Hans Karlsson and Svante Djarv, two incredible Swedish toolmakers. I think their tools may be available from some UK stores.

Hope that helps

Steve

[Steve Friedman]

Steve thanks for the ideas. I have talked to Drew a couple times. He was out of stock on quite a few things. I have an order in for basic bowl kit and a froe. I think the basic set, adze, hatchet and three large gouges is more for large bowls. I believe I may have to order through Drew or look for items at the manufacturer. Either way there may be different options. I plan to call Drew again soon. I am just trying to dig up enough information to discuss options intelligently and check on other possible suppliers.

These tools are not just for me. I have a step son who is interest in green wood carving too.
I'm envious. My first woodworking experience was a few days I spent with Drew a few years ago. Unfortunately both of my kids were grown by then. Would love to have discovered this earlier when my kids were younger. My son does some woodworking, but all power tools. My daughter has an interest in hand tools. In fact, my Father's day gift last year was that she and her husband came over to learn how to carve spoons. Very cool until they started losing blood and patience.

Steve

[Jamie Bacon]

Another fan of Del's knives. I have 2 of his hook knives and would like to get the 2 1/4" Sloyd knife. I think Ben Orford also makes some great tools. I just wish someone in the U.S. carried them for sale.