Coping Saw or Fret Saw?

[Jacob Reverb]

Hello, all,

I need to get a coping saw for cleaning out dovetails but I can't seem to find one with all the qualities I want.

In looking around at my choices on the web, I stumbled across adjustable fret saws, which I like because you can shorten the frame to use broken blades. But the adjustable fret saws I've seen don't seem to allow the blade to pivot – the teeth face down (180° away from the frame), and that's it.

Coping saws, on the other hand, allow the blade to pivot – which would be useful for cutting out the waste on dovetails on wide panels – but I don't see any coping saws that adjust the frame length, so I couldn't use broken (or short) blades.

I considered taking an existing coping saw and cutting up the frame and TIG welding it back together with a wing-nut clamp/adjustment mechanism to allow me to adjust the frame length – but then the attachment points for the blades on coping saws are for blades with pins at the ends, not plain blades.

Has anyone found a way to combine both the pivoting-blade functionality with the adjustable-length-frame functionality elegantly?

Thanks in advance for any clues,

Jacob.

[David Weaver]

No great reason to use broken coping saw blades. Nor the fret blades for that matter.

The coping saw that is sold under the robert larson brand on amazon is fine, as are any others of that style. Even the $7 ones at HD that allow you to turn the blade are fine. I've never noticed much difference in use with any of them.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I've broken fret saw blades. I think I've broken a coping saw blade once, and that was user error.

I know some folks like the fret-saw approach, but I prefer a coping saw; the fret saws I've used just take to long, for me at least.

[Mike Henderson]

Just a different opinion, but I found that I can chop out the waste faster than I can saw out the majority and then clean up the rest.

Mike

[lowell holmes]

Rob Cosman twists the fret saw blade with dikes to pivot the teeth.

I bought my adjustable fret aw rom Craftsman Studio. It has a blade tensioner.

[Hilton Ralphs]

I don't know why you are fretting over this. You just need to learn to cope with whatever you have...

That said, a decent coping saw is less than $15 (Lee Valley + TFWW) and the blades are cheap as chips so why would you want to cut up a perfectly good frame just to use a broken blade?

Get both (Lee Valley has both), use both and then decide. Seriously, they are both so cheap that you should be considering these a consumable item. Once you've worked out what you prefer, then perhaps look at the Knew Concepts fretsaw and coping saws but these are certainly not cheap.

Good luck.

[george wilson]

Fretting,Coping? Are you making up puns Ralph!!:) I'd use a coping saw,except I also just chop out the material. Never have tried sawing it out to get started.

[Jim Koepke]

It really depends on whether you cut pins first or tails first...

Well, not really. After trying both it seems chopping them out is less work.

One of my fret saws does allow changing the blade angle.

jtk

[Jacob Reverb]

Thanks guys. I ended up just buying an $8 saw from the blue Borg.

[Bill Houghton]

I've owned several coping saws over the years. The best one I've found was apparently grown from seed, because it's got no maker's name on it.

Coping saws are commonly available in 5" and 6" frame depths. I own both; I rarely really need the extra depth, and the 5" frame is a little stiffer.

[Jim Neeley]

If you insert the blade in the saw;
use a pair of pointed nose pliers to pinch near the clamp (leave 1/8-3/16")
you can easily give each end of the blade a 20* or so twist on ah end.

This will give the back of the saw plenty of clearance while cutting the waste.

As you can see, the "chop vs saw" decision is an issue where many people seem to have strong opinions. Either works for me. FYI, I generally saw although have used both techniques depending what I feel like doing that day. :)

Jim in Alaska

[george wilson]

Bear in mind that twisting the blade may only be accomplished perhaps 1 or 2 times.

[Mike Holbrook]

I believe there are blades that are made twisted, saw some somewhere earlier today. Personally I like the Gramercy Bow Saw which uses 12" coping saw blades. They sell a kit, with directions, allowing you to make your own too. Bow saws love to twist.

[Jacob Reverb]

Thanks again, fellas. Maybe I'll end up getting a fret saw down the road. I appreciate your replies.

[Jim Matthews]

I bought the Olson that Joel sells.

I think the Olson blades are what made the real difference.
As with many things, coping saw blades are not all the same.

I'm too much a hamfist to use a fret saw; two starter strokes and *PING* another broken blade.

[Jacob Reverb]

Thanks Jim.

Quick dopey question: Is it worthwhile to loosen a coping saw blade between uses to prevent the frame from stretching it too far?

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I really like the Olson coping saw blades as well, particularly the skip tooth.

Chopping is also often quicker - I often let the size of the work, the size of the sockets being cut, and the material worked decide for me. (Some woods I can chop out huge chunks very quickly, some I can't)

Another factor is how many chisels I have sharp and ready to work and whether I feel like dealing the malleting noise - if I've got a headache, or I know the downstairs neighbors aren't going to appreciate me making noise at that time of day, I often go the coping saw - I lift a quick sliver of waste at the baseline (Derek documents this technique on his website) to aid in registering the chisel. A few saw strokes to remove the majority of the waste, and what's left can be removed with pushing paring cuts only rather than mallet work.

[Hilton Ralphs]

After trying both it seems chopping them out is less work.




Chopping is also often quicker

I watched a Paul Sellers' video this weekend where demonstrates cutting dovetails to make a box. His chopping method most certainly takes longer than using a coping saw but he's pretty pedantic (and accurate) about it.

[Cory Waldrop]

I have one of the Knew Concepts Fret saws and it does a great job. I have only broke one blade so far. The trick is technique. If you aren't holding the saw straight, the blade will bind and is more likely to break. You also have to be careful and not put too much pressure at the start of the cut. Once the kerf is started, you can go to town. The right blade is also important. I went with a skip tooth configuration and it cuts well.

I don't have much experience with coping saws, but I always found the blade to be wider than the kerf of my dovetail saw so cutting out the waste was too much hastle.

With the fret saw I can cut about 1/16th from the marking gauge line and then pare to the line with a chisel. Good clean results and faster (for me) than chopping. Specially in something hard like maple.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I try and get closer than 1/16th when I remove with a saw, removing that little sliver of waste really helps there.

I guess I should have said chopping is often faster *sometimes* - it really depends on the wood. Working from the face and the end, some woods just love to split out in convenient chunks (the poplar I was working with last time I dovetailed did this) some woods just don't. I inadvertently made a big split in some hard maple once - had chopped in from the face, and was going to split it off from the end - not taking a very big bite at all, and the split dove under the preliminary chop and telegraphed into the board all wacky. I've been working in birch and poplar lot, and the birch just goes much faster for me removing with a saw and then paring to the base, while the poplar goes faster with chopping, but not enough for me to decide to avoid the chopping sometimes in favor of quieter methods. Size of the area to be removed and how well I've sized my joinery to my chisels makes a difference, of course.

[Cory Waldrop]

Good point Joshua. I like to stay about 1/16" of an inch away in case I am not holding the saw perfectly level. I often find that I am holding the saw a little higher towards my body and the saw kerf is angled slightly lower on the back side, closer to the marked line. I guess it is always a good idea to have the show side facing you when you saw to make sure you don't go below the line where everyone is going to see. Its not much of a problem if one stays just enough away from the line to be safe.

Living in an apartment, I often chose more quiet means of getting things done, so I try to limit chopping activities when I can. It just so happens that I prefer sawing anyway so its a win/win.