Shopsmith at Lowes?

[Mike Cruz]

I was at one of my local Lowes today and there was a demo guy there with a Shopsmith. Really? I didn't have it in me to go start talking to him because, well, as a multiple machine man, I'm not a fan of the all-in-one machine and didn't want to get into a peeing competition with him. But since when has Shopsmith been pushed/sold/whatever at Lowes?

PS, it isn't like it is hard to find a used one around here:

[Bruce Page]

While not for everybody, a lot of woodworkers love their Shopsmith.

[Mel Fulks]

I think of them as metal origami.

[shane lyall]

They have been doing it for a while on and off. My girlfriend bought a new Mark V there several years ago. Its still in her dads garage and never been powered up!

[Mel Fulks]

Shane, that's an interesting point about those things ,there seems to be so many of them in unused condition ,even some real old ones.

[Mike Cruz]

Sorry, maybe I was unclear... Agreed, Bruce, for some, they are the best thing since sliced bread. My understanding is that they are well built and quite efficient at doing a lot of things in one machine. I've just never associated them with BORGs. I associate BORGS with brands like Ridgid and Cobalt. I associate BORGS with construction not woodworking. I associate Shopsmith with woodworking and not construction. Honestly, I don't associate either with fine woodworking, but in the end it is more about the woodworker than his equipment...just like Tiger Woods could shoot a lower round than I could on any given day...even with rocks tied to stick. In the end, skill surpasses equipment any day. I just don't see the correlation between Lowes and Shopsmith. It just seemed so...out of place.

[Mike Cruz]

Mel, I've seen the same. I think, in theory, that the Shopsmith is perfect...especially for the person with little space and big aspirations. But in reality, changing over from one piece to the other is more work than the average Joe is willing to do.

Personally, if I had to switch back and forth for each cut, I'd simply not woodwork. That is why I have all my machines stationary. I know not everyone has that luxury, but if I had to roll out each piece of equipment away from the wall each time I wanted to use it, then clean up, then move it back to the wall, then move out the next piece of equipment, and go through that over and over each time I went to the shop/garage, again, I wouldn't woodwork. Now, I'm not downing on those who have to do that. I'm just saying I would end up not woodworking. Those that do it certainly have more patience than I. I've got a 720 square foot shop that is busting at that seems. I, in my view, NEED an addition on my shop. I'm lusting for it. I NEED it. I can't afford it right now, but I NEED it. I have full size machines in what should be a contractors size shop. At my last job, we had these sized machines (and some were even smaller), though we had 8,000 square feet or so. Back to the discussion though...SS and BORGs...

[johnny means]

Seems like a perfect fit to me. I would bet that the average inexperienced DIYer who shops at Lowes is much like the typical Shopsmith buyer.

[Robert Keeney]

I've owned a Shopsmith since about 1918. It has served me well especially during my time in the military where once it resided in a pantry.

All of us don't have huge shops or even shops for that matter. My woodworking shares space with mechanics, garden, and motorcycle tools. I have some stand alone woodworking tools but lately have been asking myself if the space they require makes them worth the convenience.

A Shopsmith is like a big erector set for woodworking. (Yep, I'm old enough to have had an erector set.) You can configure it to do just about anything you want and some things you can't do with stand alone tools. Shopsmith has the best support you will find anywhere for a woodworking tool.

[lowell holmes]

I thought I was approaching being the World's oldest woodworker. I'm a kid compared to you.

As a matter of curiosity, what projects are you interested in?

I wanted an erector set, but never got one. I did have Tinker Toys.

[Ron Kellison]

"I've owned a Shopsmith since about 1918"


You must have the Shopsmith Mk. 1 model.;) It's always nice to discover someone who uses vintage machinery instead of that Chiwanese stuff!:D

[Richard Wagner]

I was at one of my local Lowes today and there was a demo guy there with a Shopsmith. Really? I didn't have it in me to go start talking to him because, well, as a multiple machine man, I'm not a fan of the all-in-one machine and didn't want to get into a peeing competition with him. But since when has Shopsmith been pushed/sold/whatever at Lowes?

PS, it isn't like it is hard to find a used one around here:

I am unsure of what you are trying to say. Maybe that is because I have a bias that is in direct opposition to yours. It seems that you would not own a Shopsmith. I, on the other hand, am quite pleased with mine and very thankful that I have had it for the last thirty years or so.

As for selling them at Lowes - why not. It is a public outlet that caters to DIYers as well as professionals.

[Mike Cruz]

Robert must be our oldest member. Even if he got his Shopsmith for his first birthday, he's 95 now! Apparently, Shopsmiths help you live longer, too.

Sorry, Robert, I know it was a typo...probably 1819, not 1918. :D

[Al Weber]

I'm not a fan of a lot of brands including the "new" Porter Cable, new Stanley planes, etc. but I don't go to my local woodworkers store to run them down to the sales staff. I own an older SS and use it as a drill press and once in a while as a lathe. They aren't the best pieces of equipment in the world but it served a purpose when I didn't have space for multiple equipments. Who cares whether Lowes sell them? I walk by 95% of the crap sold in the big box stores and it doesn't offend my sensibilities. I think the world needs to lighten up about others choices.

[glenn bradley]

ShopSmith does have a faithful following. I saw a SS demo in my local Lowe's about 8 years ago. For the guy who only has the space between the front bumper and the garage wall to store his shop, they can be quite a blessing. Like a lot of all in one's (and many combos for that matter) they do not play well with what I do and how I do it.

[Richard Wagner]

ShopSmith does have a faithful following. I saw a SS demo in my local Lowe's about 8 years ago. For the guy who only has the space between the front bumper and the garage wall to store his shop, they can be quite a blessing. Like a lot of all in one's (and many combos for that matter) they do not play well with what I do and how I do it.

And isn't this the very reason why there are so many brands/versions to chose from. I have a Shopsmith Mark V Model 520 and it serves all of my woodworking (and then some) needs very well. What I don't do is trash talk Brand XXXX; not even if I believe Brand XXXX is worthy of trash talk. I just don't buy it. I do, however, find it very difficult to keep my opinions to myself when someone trash talks my Shopsmith and especially if there is an indication that they have never owned or used one.

[Steve Peterson]

When I started woodworking, I had one 8' x 2' bench in the garage and a 10' x 2' bench along one wall of the 7x10 shed that stored the lawn mower and other junk. I bought all my supplies and most of my tools at the big box stores. I can definitely see the advantage of a ShopSmith in this situation. And the big box store seems like an acceptable place to buy one.

Steve

[Malcolm Schweizer]

For a guy like me with a small shop, it's a great alternative. I almost bought one but shipping is an issue as I live offshore from the US. I would never use the table saw because you have to tilt the table instead of the blade, but I see the shop smith as an excellent drill press and small lathe with options to go with it. The bandsaw may be small but is great to cut small stuff.

[Steve Mawson]

I saw a demo probably at Lowes I bet over 10 years ago, could have been 15. I actually knew the guy doing the demo. He had worked at one of the stores SS owned when they had all their stores around the country. I think they started closing them about when I moved to North Carolina in 1995. Anyway they have some sort of relationship with lots of different places where they do demo's. They used to do demo's in shopping centers, catch the guys while the ladies were shopping. I suspect they do demo's wherever they can get a spot and enough traffic to justify the time. I still have mine bought about 1982 at a shopping center in St. Louis and use it a lot for sanding and drilling.

[Mike Cruz]

Not sure how many of the comments here are being directed at me, but just to be clear... The point of this thread was NOT that SS is a piece of junk, that SS isn't considered a real wwing machine, that you can't make anything nice with a SS, or that no one should bother with a SS. The point of this thread was that SS is now being sold at LOWES. And THAT was a shocker to me. It seemed odd/ill fitted. Maybe it is a match made in heaven. Maybe it is a stretch. Just odd...to me.

[Ronald Blue]

They have had an association with Lowe's for a while now. I think maybe they even allow a person to use their Lowe's credit card to purchase but not certain of that. I think they have there place. I have two and at this time mainly turn on one and do horizontal drilling and sanding on the other. The bandsaw is mounted on a power station. Not everything is convenient but for some things they work great. While set up can be a down fall how many times have you had a mistake cause you to have to go back and remake a part? Even when you have stand alone tools it can be a pain because you have to get all the same settings duplicated. As was pointed out there are many different makes and they all give us choices. They are as as capable as the operator and there have been many quality pieces created on them just as with most brands.

[Jerry Wright]

Mike- reread your initial post and you will figure it out.

Jerry

[Dave Lehnert]

Shopsmith has been doing the Lowes demo for a long time. Nothing new about that. I went to a Lowes demo two or three years ago. The demo was given by the son of the late owner of Shopsmith. They demo the new PowerPro.
Lowes also sells a line of Shopsmith sandpaper. I have not used it yet but told it is a very good. http://shopsmithabrasives.com/
I have owned my Shopsmith since 1989. I enjoy using an American made product with a long history in my shop. Shopsmith is a very small manufacture located in Dayton Ohio.
Changeover is not near as bad as everyone thinks it is. No different than having to stop and change the belt on a stand alone drill press. Like the variable speed of the Shopsmith a lot. I miss that feature most using stand alone tools.

[Mike Cruz]

Just reread my OP. I still don't get it. Maybe some are misreading the tone of the post. I didn't say that SSs are bad, worthless, junk, or useless. I said I'm not a fan of all in one machines. I didn't want to get into a peeing competition over which is better (all in one or stand alone) or get into a long conversation about Shopsmiths. If I had approached the gentleman, I would have asked specifically about SS being there at LOWES, etc. But I didn't want to, nor did I have the time to get into any further discussion. I'm not a fan of Audis, either. That is a personal preference and I have my reasons. I'm not saying that they aren't well built, luxurious, sporty, or that they don't have a place in the car industry. Therefore, I didn't understand why people are reacting the way they are.

This is akin to me saying that I saw McDonalds selling Rib sandwiches. I'm not a fan of Rib sandwiches, but when did McD's start selling them? I didn't want to ask the manager because I didn't want to hear about how healthy they are, or juicy, or tasty. But, since when did McDs start selling Rib sandwiches?... Then everyone starts defending Rib sandwiches.

[John A langley]

Mike I think this is a common occurrence on threads people misunderstand what you're trying to saysometimes . There's no tone of voice, and there's no body language visible so sometimes it's hard to tell what a person means I have a friend who has a SS and he loves it because he doesn't have the room for the other tools . I've not been in the Lowe's for a long time therefore I didn't realize they were selling the Shopsmith and I don't like McDonald's .

[Bruce Page]

Mike, one of the great things about the Shopsmith is they are easy to move when you want to pull your Audi A8 into the garage. :);)

[Richard Wagner]

Just reread my OP. I still don't get it. Maybe some are misreading the tone of the post. I didn't say that SSs are bad, worthless, junk, or useless. I said I'm not a fan of all in one machines. I didn't want to get into a peeing competition over which is better (all in one or stand alone) or get into a long conversation about Shopsmiths. If I had approached the gentleman, I would have asked specifically about SS being there at LOWES, etc. But I didn't want to, nor did I have the time to get into any further discussion. I'm not a fan of Audis, either. That is a personal preference and I have my reasons. I'm not saying that they aren't well built, luxurious, sporty, or that they don't have a place in the car industry. Therefore, I didn't understand why people are reacting the way they are.



This is akin to me saying that I saw McDonalds selling Rib sandwiches. I'm not a fan of Rib sandwiches, but when did McD's start selling them? I didn't want to ask the manager because I didn't want to hear about how healthy they are, or juicy, or tasty. But, since when did McDs start selling Rib sandwiches?... Then everyone starts defending Rib sandwiches.

Mike: I am sorry that I jumped with both feet on this one. I guess it is something of a "reflex action" and it might be uncalled for (especially when not on the home forum). Forgive me.

[Mike Cruz]

It's all good. No forgiving necessary.

Some people, while still defending SSs, did answer the question...apparently in some areas, they've been doing it for years. Granted, if someone is demoing a SS at LOWES (or any other BORG) for a weekend, unless I happened to go into THAT LOWES on that weekend, I wouldn't see them there. So, I suppose that it isn't that surprising that it has been happening for years and that I hadn't seen them there before.

I suppose one of the funny things is that I associate SSs with woodworking (at whatever level), but I don't really associate BORGS with woodworking. Yeah, they carry tools and finishes, etc. But if you are looking for what we "woodworkers" are often looking for (or even worse...you ask an employee about it!), you don't find it. At least that was my experience about 8 years ago when I started putting my shop together. So, that impression stuck with me. Anyway, thanks for playing along, everyone...

[Mel Fulks]

I agree with Steve that they look for places to demonstrate . Like the Donvier ice cream maker it is the ideal product to sell by demonstration . Both have few warranty claims as neither gets used much. Both turn up at yard sales as real deals but without demonstration usually go back into garage unsold.

[Dave Verstraete]

I agree with Steve that they look for places to demonstrate . Like the Donvier ice cream maker it is the ideal product to sell by demonstration . Both have few warranty claims as neither gets used much. Both turn up at yard sales as real deals but without demonstration usually go back into garage unsold.

And then there are the one or two in a hundred that are a woodworkers first exposure to the craft. They translate into a lifetime of woodworking enjoyment. Without the first demo, it probably wouldn't have happened. I can attest to that scenario.

[Joe Tilson]

+1 on what Al says. Some of us do not have the space or the resources to have the best made equipment. We have to do with what we can work with. I see a lot of talk about high end tools on here, and that's nice, but I have a lot of Ryobi, Delta Bosch, and Craftsman tools which is what has to do. Off my soapbox now. If it works! Do it!
Former East Tenesseeian.

[David Castor]

FWIW, I remember as a kid of about 8 or 9 (over 50 years ago), seeing a Shopsmith demo in a Sears or Monkey Wards store. The guy gave me a little cup that he turned on the lathe and I had that cup for a long time - probably still at my dad's house somewhere. That demo made a lasting impression on me, apparently.

It's a product that sells well via a demo. Seems reasonable to do demos at Lowe's as opposed to state fairs, etc.

[Mike Cruz]

Glenn, no one is bashing SS, Ryobi, Delta, or Bosch in this thread. Sure, I'll bash Craftsman all day long, but that is a personal battle I have with them/Sears...

The point of the thread is about SS AT Lowes. Not the validity of SS or any other all in one. No, it isn't my thing, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have its place.

[James Runchey]

I bought my shopsmith in 1959 and have used it almost daily for the drill press and once in a while I use the 12" disc sander. When I need something on the lathe it gets used also. I haven't used the saw in 30 years. The ER10 model, the first one, is a very well-built heavy duty machine, unlike many of the later models. I'd be lost without it. Best hundred bucks I ever spent for a used machine.

[Mike Cruz]

The mention of the value of a demo for this machine keeps popping up. And I think it really makes the point about why they are demoed. Even if a demo doesn't sell the woodworker himself, it may certainly sell the spouse of the woodworker...seeing how it takes up so little space, yet can carry the functions of so many pieces of equipment. That may also explain why there are so many that are 10 years old and have never been used...

[Mel Fulks]

Ya know what? A guy could make a heck of a good living 'door to door' selling those things AND vacuum cleaners! In no way am I knocking the machines,as a kid I longed to have one. My brother has some rental property and loves the one he has for keeping the places patched up. I was just pointing out that the machines are one of the best 'selling the dream' things of all time. In my mind they will always be most strongly tied to post WW2 optimism.

[Roy Turbett]

Shop Smith isn't the only tool that is/was sold doing store demos. The late Wally Kunkle, aka "Mr. Sawdust", got his start doing demos of the Dewalt radial arm saw following WWII and it was promoted as an 8 in one tool. I was also surprised to see Norm Abrams using a Shop Smith in one of his first New Yankee Workshop books. Just goes to show that even professional carpenters use them.

[Aaron Berk]

Shop Smith isn't the only tool that is/was sold doing store demos. The late Wally Kunkle, aka "Mr. Sawdust", got his start doing demos of the Dewalt radial arm saw following WWII and it was promoted as an 8 in one tool. I was also surprised to see Norm Abrams using a Shop Smith in one of his first New Yankee Workshop books. Just goes to show that even professional carpenters use them.

I saw a advertisement for a SS demo at my Lowes about 4-6 yrs ago?? Would have loved to go see it.

Personally I think all tool manufacturers should put more money into the Demo realm. And a RAS demo? OMG I would be all over that one, even if it was at the local cafeteria.
Maybe then we wouldn't have so many lethal table saws out on the lose, lol

And for the record, I like Audis but would never buy a so called Rib sandwich from McD's :D

[glenn bradley]

ShopSmith does have a faithful following. I saw a SS demo in my local Lowe's about 8 years ago. For the guy who only has the space between the front bumper and the garage wall to store his shop, they can be quite a blessing. Like a lot of all in one's (and many combos for that matter) they do not play well with what I do and how I do it.


And isn't this the very reason why there are so many brands/versions to chose from. I have a Shopsmith Mark V Model 520 and it serves all of my woodworking (and then some) needs very well. What I don't do is trash talk Brand XXXX; not even if I believe Brand XXXX is worthy of trash talk. I just don't buy it. I do, however, find it very difficult to keep my opinions to myself when someone trash talks my Shopsmith and especially if there is an indication that they have never owned or used one.

Richard, I am sorry you took my post as trash talk(?). Granted the Creek does have its fair share of trolls and malcontents but, I try diligently not to join their negative voice:). I have been through a couple of Shopsmiths and mentioned their faithful following and high value (I believe I said "blessing") for some folks.

You are absolutely correct that "this the very reason why there are so many brands/versions to choose from". That is why you didn't read me saying something like "Shopsmith's are junk" or "combination machines are too finicky to setup and use". The reason I use the tools I use now is that they fit what I am now doing and how I do it. I am glad the Shopsmith suits what you are doing and how you do it.

[Dave Lehnert]

I'll just add that I always thought a Shopsmith would be an ideal tool for the hand tool woodworker that wants the use of a power tool now and then.

[Larry Whitlow]

I saw a advertisement for a SS demo at my Lowes about 4-6 yrs ago?? Would have loved to go see it.

Personally I think all tool manufacturers should put more money into the Demo realm. And a RAS demo? OMG I would be all over that one, even if it was at the local cafeteria.
Maybe then we wouldn't have so many lethal table saws out on the lose, lol

And for the record, I like Audis but would never buy a so called Rib sandwich from McD's :D

Agree. I don't think it would be a bad thing to see main stream higher-end tool mfg's doing demo's at the big box stores. Don't think it will happen.

[Rick Potter]

About Lowes and demos, I can't think of a better place to do it. County fairs are ok, as shopping malls are ok, but at a Lowes store every customer in there is into do it yourself in one way or another. Probably better than WW shows where most attendees have basic equipment already, and where the demo space is astronomically priced. I think Lowes would do well to demo other equipment too. It probably costs them little or nothing.

Rick Potter

[Mike Cruz]

Rick, as this subject of Demos has been discussed more, I'm starting to understand how SS demoing at LOWES is actually a great fit. Honestly, I didn't see it that way at first, but now I do.

[Stephen Cherry]

I like Audis but would never buy a so called Rib sandwich from McD's :D

I don't like Audis, but the McRib is delicious.

[Frederick Skelly]

You guys! I have enough power tools to do whatever I need, but Ive never seen a SS demo. Now Ive got to go find a demo just to see one in action.
Fred

[Mike Cruz]

You two are haters!

[David C. Roseman]

[snip]And a RAS demo? OMG I would be all over that one, even if it was at the local cafeteria.[snip]

I would join you, Aaron, just for the nostalgia! My first full-sized bench tool was a Craftsman RAS nearly 40 yrs ago. It's still going strong, now pretty much only used for cross-cuts on very long stock. But when it was all I had, I used it for every operation they promoted, including overhead routing, extensive ripping, of course, and even milling tongue and groove on the edges of wide boards using an auxiliary table!

I've never owned a Shopsmith, although I have an old Grizzly jig saw that's a clone of the early SS jig saw attachment. Had a woodworking friend with a SS who used it to make a beautiful dining room table and full set of chairs that I probably couldn't replicate with a shop full of dedicated machines. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them to folks who have limited space or just prefer not to collect separate bench machines.

David

[Joe Tilson]

Just thinking for the past couple of day about this thread, and would apologize for sounding harsh yesterday. A pastor of ours said,"opinions are like noses everybody has one". Everybody is welcome to theirs, sorry for the harsh words.
Joe

[Rod Sheridan]

ShopSmiths are one of many combination machines.

Combination machines can be excellent choices for those of us with small shops, I happen to have 2 combination machines.

Having SS do a demonstation at Lowe's is interesting, I went to a demonstration at HD that was put on by a cutter manufacturer.

Very interesting demo, even the part where I asked about shaper cutters and was informed that they were obsolete.

Some after the demo conversation resulted in the person mailing me their shaper cutter catalogue and explaining that it was a week before Father's Day, and many people left with a router and some bits in a buggy, but no one left with a shaper in the buggy.........Had to laugh, a lesson in demo's and marketing...........Rod.

[Mike Wilkins]

It's been awhile, but the local Lowes here in Greenville, NC had a Shopsmith demo right as you walk in the front door. They may have been trying to get folks to finance them through the Lowes credit card. I listened and watched for a while, but did not get into any conversations with the demo guys. These machines pop up all the time on the local C-list, and there was one in the local Habitat for Humanity resale store. Not my cup of java though.

[Rick Potter]

Frederick,

Just google shopsmith demo video, and you will find all you need. Not in person, but a good second choice. I just tried it.

Rick Potter

[glenn bradley]

I'll just add that I always thought a Shopsmith would be an ideal tool for the hand tool woodworker that wants the use of a power tool now and then.
Heyyyy, that's a very good idea.

[Frederick Skelly]

Thanks Rick!
Fred